much better, thanks all.

[wilderness01]

I'd cut my losses with this one OP, and realize that part of what your parents are saying is correct...you are not responsible for them. They can make their own decisions, good or bad. You do not have to support them, you do not have to like them, you do not have to pay the price for the bad decisions. About all you'll get to do someday is say "I told you so".

Tough family dynamic here. You'd serve yourself and your DH/children well to just let this one go.

Well said.

 

[laurie31]

In terms of taking care of them, they're broke, and I'm not sure how the state would handle cases of indigent care. Don't get me wrong, not one red cent of my kids' college money is going to pay for care of my parents who couldn't be bothered to ever save any money (or in my mother's case to also never work a full time job in her life), but they don't have anyone else to talk to the doctors if they get sick, or to find them a place to live if they lose their house or can no longer take care of themselves. If anyone has been through a situation like that I would appreciate your input here. They become eligible for medicare and retirement this year, and I'm not sure how that works either.

My primary thought is that my parents are my responsibility, not someone else's, and while they may not be very good people, they shouldn't end up homeless because of their own incompetency. If they manage to take care of themselves until they die, then that's good. You have to understand, my mother claims that by taking vitamins she's going to live to 100 and never get sick. This is not rational.

I want them to be closer by so when I need to make decisions about their medical care or meet with doctors, I don't have to spend thousands flying across the country to do it. I am not interested in helping them financially; they were on the dole to my grandparents for many years and I will not ever continue that bad behavior.

Thanks very much for all the hugs and support, everyone....

First off, I must say how terrible the whole situation is. I can't imagine a mother just not speaking to you and not wanting to reconcile. However, I'm inclined to agree with everyone else and say cut your losses and just accept that this is that way things are now.

However, you need to let go of this idea that you will be driving your parents to doctors and making all kinds of medical and financial decisions for them. They are going to have to manage on their own. If they don't manage very well, so be it. It was their choice. You are not here to bail them out of a lifetime of poor planning, despite the "honor thy father and mother" commandment. (I believe that too, btw, but I don't think it extends to situations when the parents have made it clear they don't want your "honor")

You would be surprised how many sick and/or elderly people in this country have no one to help them. They just have to make do with whatever social assistance programs are out there in the state where they're living. It's not your responsibility. As as someone pointed out, if they don't want you invovled, then legally you CAN'T be. Every day I see patients who don't want any info given to their sister, mother, or even their spouse. The medical staff HAS to abide by their decision.

Also, you need to stop worrying about your mother having a stroke or your parents getting Alzeheimer's. Sure it could happen. But it may not. They could die in a car wreck tomorrow. You could predecease them. None of us knows the future. I agree that it's VERY irresponsible of anyone not to prepare for retirement but what's done is done and there's no use worrying about what MIGHT happen. Worry sucks the joy out of your life. You need to let it go.

 

[java]

just that a It sounds so difficult and I am sorry.

 

[DizBelle]

I'm not sure what to say...... But you don't need to feel guilty about anything (in case you may be feeling that way)

 

[Jennasis]

Also, OP I don't think you need Advice (or even want advice). I think you needed to vent, and that's totally ok! None of us know the intricacies of your family dynamic, and none of us have walked in your shoes. People can second guess what you've said or done but in the end YOU are the one living your life and only you know what is really going on. Some posters may give you the "I can't imagine doing/saying that" speech, others can tell you you may have been harsh in your e-mails. But you are the one living through this slice of heck and feelings are never wrong. Do what YOU feel you need to do to preserve your immediate family's well being and your own sanity.

So hugs to you. I hope things begin lightening up for you soon!

 

[Chicago526]

OP, I'm no expert but what I believe will happen is that if one or both of your parents need a nursing home, they'll go to one that accepts medicare as full payment (they usally aren't the best ones in town, btw). If your parents have any assets, they'll have to be sold to pay for care before medicare kicks in (there are some rules about what happens to the spouse that doesn't have to enter a home, I think they get to keep a car and a small amount of cash and their personal possesions, but that's about it). If they are unable to make medical decisions, I think the state provides them with a guardian to make decisions for them in the absence of a medical directive and/or a power of attorney.

If you want more details, the county and/or state that your parents live in may have a website you can look at, or a number you can call to ask questions, I'd start with Google.

I understand wanting to at least know what will be happening when/if they become ill enough to need the state to step in, even though you have no control over it. What I think will happen is that they WILL get sick, and that's when you're going to hear from them "you have to help us we're your parents!". You need to prepare yourself for that posibility, that one parent will get sick and the other will ask you for help. You need to decide how much help you want to give them, if any, and what to tell them and how, if you're not prepared to support them fully.

 

[kimmar067]

Also, OP I don't think you need Advice (or even want advice). I think you needed to vent, and that's totally ok! None of us know the intricacies of your family dynamic, and none of us have walked in your shoes. People can second guess what you've said or done but in the end YOU are the one living your life and only you know what is really going on. Some posters may give you the "I can't imagine doing/saying that" speech, others can tell you you may have been harsh in your e-mails. But you are the one living through this slice of heck and feelings are never wrong. Do what YOU feel you need to do to preserve your immediate family's well being and your own sanity....

..ITA....

 

[kimmikayb]

I just thought of something (sorry if it's already been said) but are you sure your Dad is upset with you? You said that you and your dad had a good relationship, liked to work side by side. I know my MIL tries to get everyone to believe her side when 99% she is not telling the truth. Could your mom be doing this and then filling your dad in on another story? Just something to think about.

 

[cabanafrau]

Also, OP I don't think you need Advice (or even want advice). I think you needed to vent, and that's totally ok! None of us know the intricacies of your family dynamic, and none of us have walked in your shoes. People can second guess what you've said or done but in the end YOU are the one living your life and only you know what is really going on. Some posters may give you the "I can't imagine doing/saying that" speech, others can tell you you may have been harsh in your e-mails. But you are the one living through this slice of heck and feelings are never wrong. Do what YOU feel you need to do to preserve your immediate family's well being and your own sanity.

So hugs to you. I hope things begin lightening up for you soon!

I only asked the OP if she'd do anything differently merely as a learning tool. Obviously this situation has a lot of water under the bridge & none of us can really know enough about it all to qualify to give advice. I just thought it was interesting that so much time has passed since this was first posted & wondered if OP had any new insights that the perspective of time gives. No one else can be in the exact same situation, but sometimes some of these relationship issues can help people learn & gain insight into some of the situations they're struggling with -- even if it might apply to a spouse, neighbor, sibling, friend, co-worker, mailman, what-have-you.

My suggestion would be either to commit to working all possible means to heal this or commit to walking away. Neither one is easy & I certainly don't envy anyone being in those shoes. I hope you all come out of this with the best outcome for everyone involved.

 

[Ms Lion Queen]

Wow! I am just so sorry for you. It is so sad when families are at odds.

I guess I looked at some of this differently than some of the other posters. It seems as if both you and your parents are interested in maintaining some kind of relationship otherwise the continuous e-mails wouldn't be happening. Each of you seems to be expressing your own needs and feelings, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of understanding of each other.

You mentioned that your parents have always had financial issues and then said that they only helped you through a half year of college. You also mentioned that 20 years ago, they only gave you $5000 for your wedding. For people who always struggled, that does seem like they helped you as much as they could and does seem as if you parents have been there for you at least a couple of times.

I do hope that you and your parents do find some way to reconcile. It seems as if each of you is reaching out and trying in their own way. While you have every right to say 'no' to your parents if they should ask you to do something, they also have a right to live their lives to the fullest in the way they choose and they need support (emotional) from you.

I know this is a troubling time for you, but hope that all of you find a way to get past this so that all of you can enjoy a better relationship in the future.

 

[Feeling Like Eeyore]

 

[Feeling Like Eeyore]

 

[kimmikayb]

This was actually the most difficult part for me to accept. When I attempted to try and mend things over christmas and I would call their house (she has never called me, but had been talking to me when I called) my father would never answer, even though I knew he was home (could hear him working in the kitchen, etc). I believe if he really wanted to try and meet me halfway he would have picked up the phone or sent an email at this point. It's a really, really big letdown when the person you think is such a great dad lets you down in such a fundamental, final way. But, at some point he had to fall off the pedestal, I guess.

A PP asked about their house rehabs: They bought a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house in 2001. They lived with my father's grandmother for 9+ months while they worked on it. It's still not done. The house I lived in as a kid for 10+ years was never done, either. Never did get a door on my room.

I will definitely google the info on the services for seniors and social security, that has been a large burden lifted off my shoulders to know that my parents won't be homeless somewhere.

My family and friends have been helping me enormously through all of this, and I really do appreciate you all for helping me as well. Having so many diverse perspectives has really, really been so good for me, and thank you.

If there is a good update someday I'll definitely let you know. Crazier things have happened in the world...

Since you haven't talked to your dad....are you sure what your mom is telling him? He might be upset and doesn't have any of the truth. Just something to think about.

 

[Disney Doll]

I'd be ok with that. The question is, what happens when my mother, who is 80+ lbs overweight and has uncontrolled high blood pressure and does not exercise, has a major stroke and is taken to the hospital where my dad tells the hospital "we're broke". Then what happens? Is there long term rehabilitation for people who only have a social security check? Because if there is, then that's fine, if my tax dollars pay for something like that then I'm not going to step in and make decisions.

What if they both become alzheimered and the neighbors call me one morning to tell me they're wandering the street? Then I need to step in and find a place for them.

I guess there are people out there who's family have completely washed their hands of them, but I can't do that at this point. I do agree that I need to protect my own family from them, now.

I see that.

If one of your parents takes ill and they do not have the financial whereithal to pay for it, when they are admitted to the hospital, the hospital will have a social worker meet with them to start the Title 19/Medicaid process. Once T19/Medicaid is in place, they will be placed in a nursing home & their care os paid for by the state. They will be allowed to have a small amount of spending money, any other income they have basically would go to the nursing home and then T19/medicaid pays the balance.

They would not be homeless. A hospital cannot discharge someone without a safe discharge plan.

 

[Feeling Like Eeyore]

If one of your parents takes ill and they do not have the financial whereithal to pay for it, when they are admitted to the hospital, the hospital will have a social worker meet with them to start the Title 19/Medicaid process. Once T19/Medicaid is in place, they will be placed in a nursing home & their care os paid for by the state. They will be allowed to have a small amount of spending money, any other income they have basically would go to the nursing home and then T19/medicaid pays the balance.

They would not be homeless. A hospital cannot discharge someone without a safe discharge plan.

Thank you, Disney Doll, that brings me a lot of peace.

 

[Feeling Like Eeyore]

 

[Nik's Mom]

I will definitely google the info on the services for seniors and social security, that has been a large burden lifted off my shoulders to know that my parents won't be homeless somewhere.

Actually, it is quite possible for them to become homeless. Here is what is going on with my life. DH and I are moving to Kansas due to a job relocation. My Mom currently lives with us. She does not want to move to Kansas due her arthritis not holding up well in cold weather. Plus DH and I have our hands full with this move, plus caring for our 2 autistic children.

My sister was supposed to take my Mom in (she has a 3 bedroom house and lives alone). Well she agreed to take her in, but now that we are days away from the move, she has changed her mind and said Mom would be a burden. So now my Mom is homeless. The low income senior housing here in California is a year long wait-list. So my Mom will have to bounce around between which ever relative is willing to take her in. She will stay with me until it gets cold, then she will be at the mercy of who ever can help take her in back in California. So, yes your Parents could become homeless...

 

[famofsix]

I did not miss the facts and I agree that OP's mom is manipulative et al.

However, OP said she needed help because her mother won't speak to her. If she wants a relationship with her parents she is going to need to deal with them in an avenue other than email. It is still my opinion that OP needs to sit down and talk with the parents or at the very least have a "phone call" appointment. However, either way she choose she needs to make the first move even though her mother's list of wrongs is much bigger. WHy? Because she indicated she wants a relationship with them. It is time OP does this with her eyes wide open with grace and tact.

This way, years down the road her own children with realize that while Grandma and Grandpa were manipulative and controlling their parents made an effort to keep a relationship with them. Of course if this was an abusive relationship I would retract this advice.


I agree with OP in that she did not want to be taken advantage of or having her relationship with DH strained over this but I strongly disagree with her emails and the tone of them.

OP~ Above I quoted what I said earlier in the thread when this first came to light on the DIS....

I think it is was really big of you to call every week since Christmas and try to work this out. I think you have really tried and I am sorry to hear your mom is holding such a grudge.

 

[barkley]

Actually, it is quite possible for them to become homeless. Here is what is going on with my life. DH and I are moving to Kansas due to a job relocation. My Mom currently lives with us. She does not want to move to Kansas due her arthritis not holding up well in cold weather. Plus DH and I have our hands full with this move, plus caring for our 2 autistic children.

My sister was supposed to take my Mom in (she has a 3 bedroom house and lives alone). Well she agreed to take her in, but now that we are days away from the move, she has changed her mind and said Mom would be a burden. So now my Mom is homeless. The low income senior housing here in California is a year long wait-list. So my Mom will have to bounce around between which ever relative is willing to take her in. She will stay with me until it gets cold, then she will be at the mercy of who ever can help take her in back in California. So, yes your Parents could become homeless...

there is a big difference between what the op is asking about and your mother's situation. in the op's situation she is asking about a parent who becomes hospitalized or in need of long term nursing care such that they are medicaly documented. in that case the previous poster who advised that a social worker would assist in helping the adult apply for medicaid was correct-the hospital would not discharge and (at least in most counties in california) a hospital sw would work with adult social services to ensure proper coverage and placement. in your mother's case it is a strictly housing issue-she apparantly does not need nursing home care and since assisted living (if she were to need this) housing is covered neither under medicare nor mediCAL (california version of medicaid for indigents) there would be no provision/resource in those programs for any type of assistance (with the exception of ihss-in home supportive services-which provides limited time caregivers in her home/rental). as to senior housing subsidies and assistance with placements-yes, the wait lists are long, and in actuality priority is given to those seniors in emergent situations (rentals are sold with no recorse for alternate housing, no alternative housing with family or friends in or out of state, homeless due to fire/flood....).

i formerly administered homeless assistance and housing programs in california and i would suggest that she remain on the wait list for senior subsidy housing, but make sure that she files a declaration that she is only visiting kansas and that she is retaining her home state as california (and have anyone housing her declare that it is temporary housing).

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow!

As I read those emails, one thing came to mind... You cannot change anyone elses actions... ONLY your reaction to them.

It sounds wonderful that you are now seeking ways (counseling, church, etc...) to handle this and to move forward!!!

I think that 'moving forward' is what you need to do.

I think it is a good idea to gather some info on what services and options might be there for your parents. ( And, remember, as one poster mentioned.. while the worst case scenario is some kind of traumatic circumstance that involves long term care... this would be the exception.)

To me the bottom line is that you simply cannot pursue a healthy rational relationship with someone who would write THIS: "When we ask for help, you say yes, when, and how fast...."

At this time I would like to add that your parents are not really asking for truly needed 'help'.. But they were, in fact, asking for you to go beyond reasonable limits to ENABLE them to do something that that would endanger their future. (which, of course, is something that one should never do.)

Having said all of that.. Just in all fairness, and not to really flame you or judge you at all... And, not mentioning the tone of your emails... there was ONE thing that you wrote that really stood out to me.

"I will not stand by and support you making bad decisions. Most of the time I can't prevent you from living your life the way you want to live it, but when your bad choices impinge on the family I have worked DAMN hard to create, then yeah, I have a say in what you do. "

Just trying to be of some help here, I will offer my thoughts.

When you wrote "I will not stand by' it would have been more correctly stated as "Because I care for your best interests, I cannot enable you to make what I feel is a bad decision..."

The truth is, that in all actuality, you MUST stand by.. You do not have the power or the right to do anything else... You do not have the power or the right to take any action whatsoever. (taking action is the opposit of 'standing by'.)

This shows a possible issue in your reasoning and your frame of mind.

In the next sentence, you wrote; "yeah, I have a say in what you do...."

Which, of course, you do not.
You have no sayso in what any other person does...

To me, this, once again, shows a possible issue in your reasoning and your frame of mind.

OP, I really do understand... and I agree 100% with your feelings in this situation!!!
I do feel that it is probably time to step back and cut current ties.

And, I think it is a good thing that you are seeking outside counseling and advice!!!
I think that it is good to take a good look at your own feelings and actions and issues as you move forward!!!