Motivated Buyer Needs to Ask Some Questions

[lillieandlilahsmommy]

My parents have recently retired and my family (husband and two daughters 7 &5) are looking into purchasing a DVC membership together. We have spent $18K at Disney going on vacation the past 5 years, we go yearly. We have a vacation planned the first week in December of this year. We would like to purchase a membership and use it to stay that week instead of starting to use it next year. When I was speaking with a resale store yesterday the man said we would probably be able to get reservations that week but it would likely not be at OKW or one of the cheaper points resorts. Is this true? Would we even be able to go this year?

Also, when are maintenance fees due? What do you typically ask the seller to pay at closing? I have read information about "making an offer" but I don't want to risk anything falling through. I don't want to be greedy but also don't want to get taken because we are novices. Anything else you can think of that we NEED TO KNOW. I understand the points system, I think our family will need to start out with about 250-270 points, I also understand the use already (11 mo vs 7 mo rule). I just want to know from people what you wish you had known before you bought into it. Is one resale company better than another? Is there one we should avoid? Have any of you used them for RCI condos and does that work out well? We love Disney, but we also love to ski and my parents love the Smoky Mtns. So we would likely use this for more than just Disney, are the other condos nice, easy to work with, book, etc?

 

[erionm]

when are maintenance fees due?

Annual Dues are based on a calendar year and are due on January 15th each year. DVC also gives you the option to by monthly debit from a US financial institution.

 

[Minniesgal]

I think by the time you buy and have points available for use using them this year for December might be a stretch unless you were prepared to do a split stay and just take what was left. December is already pretty booked up.

 

[Countryrunner262]

My parents have recently retired and my family (husband and two daughters 7 &5) are looking into purchasing a DVC membership together. We have spent $18K at Disney going on vacation the past 5 years, we go yearly. We have a vacation planned the first week in December of this year. We would like to purchase a membership and use it to stay that week instead of starting to use it next year. When I was speaking with a resale store yesterday the man said we would probably be able to get reservations that week but it would likely not be at OKW or one of the cheaper points resorts. Is this true? Would we even be able to go this year?

Also, when are maintenance fees due? What do you typically ask the seller to pay at closing? I have read information about "making an offer" but I don't want to risk anything falling through. I don't want to be greedy but also don't want to get taken because we are novices. Anything else you can think of that we NEED TO KNOW. I understand the points system, I think our family will need to start out with about 250-270 points, I also understand the use already (11 mo vs 7 mo rule). I just want to know from people what you wish you had known before you bought into it. Is one resale company better than another? Is there one we should avoid? Have any of you used them for RCI condos and does that work out well? We love Disney, but we also love to ski and my parents love the Smoky Mtns. So we would likely use this for more than just Disney, are the other condos nice, easy to work with, book, etc?

We are going the first week of December. I looked and there are very few if any openings for that time.

 

[drusba]

First week of December: DVC's highest demand week of the year. There is very little even left now to reserve and, if you will have any chance at all, it will be for SSR but even that may be gone. If you are considering as an option the second week of Dec, that is third highest demand week of the year; Christmas week is second. For DVC demand during the year, see my post, #5 in this thread: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3121307

Maintenance fees are on a calendar year basis not your use year basis. All fees for the year become due in Jan payable by mid-Feb in one shot or you can set up automatic monthly withdrawals from your bank account. If the seller is on monthly payments, any dues for the remainder of the year must be paid at closing to Disney. In resales, what is often negotiated is a pro rata share, i.e., the buyer pays for the share of the calendar year that is post closing. But that can vary particularly depending on the point status of the seller at time of sale, Example, if he has already used all the points for his current use year and you won't have any until sometime next year, you should consider tempering your offer to have the seller at least absorb all dues for this year. That of course raises an issue that you should be sure to look at carefully when making an offer -- what is the current point status -- because loaded contracts (those that have all the current year points and possibly even some banked from a prior year) are more desirable and have more value than "stripped" contracts (where the seller has no current use year points left and may have borrowed and already used next years points).

Can't speak to RCI as I have not used it.

 

[Deb & Bill]

DVC is an expensive timeshare, especially to trade out. DVC works best for DVC. And even getting some of the other DVC resorts other than the one you own can be difficult at times. Most of the time experienced members advise you to buy at the resort you won't mind staying at if you can't book anything else at seven months out. And that requires you book your home resort at eleven months out.

Getting a ski vacation during ski season isn't very easy. Someone who owns that resort has to trade their resort for a DVC reservation. You are better off purchasing another timeshare to trade out. Or buying that ski timeshare.

And I will echo the thoughts about getting a December stay. It probably won't happen for December 2013.

 

[lillieandlilahsmommy]

Getting a ski vacation during ski season isn't very easy. Someone who owns that resort has to trade their resort for a DVC reservation. You are better off purchasing another timeshare to trade out. Or buying that ski timeshare.

Wow! Okay, they don't tell you that at the timeshare stores that are selling these. They act like it is nothing to go on a different vacation elsewhere. We love Disney but as our girls get older we want to go on other types of vacations. So, basically impossible to book at a RCI resort unless the timeshare holder happens to go on a DVC vacation at the exact time you are wanting to use their condo. AND, it seems like I read somewhere that DVC stays about 98% booked up, so no "last minute plans" or something like that. Correct?

 

[disneynutz]

Wow! Okay, they don't tell you that at the timeshare stores that are selling these. They act like it is nothing to go on a different vacation elsewhere. We love Disney but as our girls get older we want to go on other types of vacations. So, basically impossible to book at a RCI resort unless the timeshare holder happens to go on a DVC vacation at the exact time you are wanting to use their condo. AND, it seems like I read somewhere that DVC stays about 98% booked up, so no "last minute plans" or something like that. Correct?

Correct, plus the RCI locations are limited for DVC owners, you can only pick from 500 locations of the 5000 that RCI has available. Some DVC owners have waited for 2 years for an exchange before giving up.

My advice is that you rent a DVC reservation from an owner if you want to stay in a DVC Villa. That will save you some money for your Disney stays and still give you the flexibility to vacation at other locations.

Owning a DVC interest isn't for everybody.

Bill

 

[dmunsil]

Wow! Okay, they don't tell you that at the timeshare stores that are selling these. They act like it is nothing to go on a different vacation elsewhere.

Every analysis I've looked at of exchanges out of DVC has suggested to me that they're more trouble than they're worth. You're much better off renting your points out (possibly via a broker like TTS or David's) and using the cash to book what you want. Pretty much across the board timeshares book up much sooner than cash reservations, so exchanges need to be planned waaaaay in advance. And commonly (but not always) renting the points and then booking the other reservation or an equivalent for cash ends up being cheaper.

Downsides of renting: you don't get all the cash immediately in most cases, so if you suddenly decide to take a trip and rent your points to raise the cash, you won't get the cash right away. Most direct rentals seem to be on a policy of half up front and half 60-90 days before the booking. David's holds back half until the renter checks in. And there is a small chance of the renter causing damage or running up charges that Disney will in essence hold you responsible for if they can't collect from the guest who stayed there. David's says they've never had to deal with a situation like that, though they have contingency plans in place to do so if it comes up. But you can find threads where a few people have been scammed when renting.

The bottom line is that you get by far the best value and convenience when you save DVC points for DVC stays or rent out your points so other people can do a DVC stay and use the cash for something else. Exchanges and other uses seem interesting when you're buying, but the reality is that they're either annoying to get done or not financially advantageous or both.

From everything I hear, renting via a broker is really quick and easy. You send them an email saying what you have to rent, and shortly thereafter they send you a specific booking to make. You make the booking online and send the confirmation number back, and you're done with those points. You get half the rental fee immediately and half when the booking begins. You never talk to the renters, you never have to deal with looky-loos, and you don't have to worry about cancellations or annoying people.

 

[Missyrose]

AND, it seems like I read somewhere that DVC stays about 98% booked up, so no "last minute plans" or something like that. Correct?

Yes, timeshares (by definition) are typically at 98 percent capacity year-round. DVC works best for people who can book 8-11 months in advance. Last-minute DVC vacations are usually planned 4 or 5 months out. You'll find availability spotty at best any closer to your reservation than that. Now that's not to say you'll have no chance of putting together a trip a few months out, but that should be the exception and not the rule of your DVC planning. If you tend to plan trips 3 to 5 months out consistently, you will likely find yourself frustrated more times than not.

 

[DeeCee735]

Getting a ski vacation during ski season isn't very easy. Someone who owns that resort has to trade their resort for a DVC reservation. You are better off purchasing another timeshare to trade out. Or buying that ski timeshare.

Wow! Okay, they don't tell you that at the timeshare stores that are selling these. They act like it is nothing to go on a different vacation elsewhere. We love Disney but as our girls get older we want to go on other types of vacations. So, basically impossible to book at a RCI resort unless the timeshare holder happens to go on a DVC vacation at the exact time you are wanting to use their condo. AND, it seems like I read somewhere that DVC stays about 98% booked up, so no "last minute plans" or something like that. Correct?

You stated in your original post that you go to Disney once a year and have spent 18,000 in Disney vacations so far. If you are looking to buy into DVC via resale, you will have how many years left on the contract? Many. Don't base your decision not to buy because of this December. I have to say, I got scared off reading the replies. While yes it is true that getting into December this late can be an issue, it's not a dead issue, just not easy. You can still try, people cancel/change their plans everyday. All the Decembers going forward, booked at the 11 month window, will not be a problem.

As far as trading out, true too that getting into the most popular places (ski resorts during ski season) is difficult, but not impossible. I've had success with my trade outs twice, as long as we were somewhat flexible with which resort/place we'd trade into.

Anyone trying to sell you on a DVC timeshare (resale company, private person or direct through Disney) will, of course, make it sound perfect. But nothing in life is. So my suggestion is that you go back to your original thinking.....we go once a year at this specific time, we need this many points, and we will continue to go to Disney for years to come, with the exception of a trade out here and there. DVC sounds like a perfect fit for your family based on your original post.

Good luck with your decision and happy hunting

 

[drusba]

AND, it seems like I read somewhere that DVC stays about 98% booked up, so no "last minute plans" or something like that. Correct?

You have the 11 month reservation window where owners of a particular DVC resort can start booking their own resort. Then you have the 7 month reservation window when members can book at any resort. You also have the largest WDW resorts, SSR, OKW and AKV, not being next to a park. Moreover, members from non-WDW resorts, such as Hilton Head and Vero Beach can book WDW resorts at 7 months out.

What happens much of the year is that any rooms still avaialble at any near park resort (BLT, BWV, BCV, and VWL) are reserved quickly once the 7 month window opens. AKV, OKW and SSR are often open some time beyond that 7 month window but those can also disappear not too long after. SSR is usually the last to go but even trying to get it less than 2 months out can be difficult many times of year and it can even disappear 4 or 5 months out at high demand times.

Thus, DVC works best for those who can reserve at least 7 months out.

 

[Dean]

My parents have recently retired and my family (husband and two daughters 7 &5) are looking into purchasing a DVC membership together. We have spent $18K at Disney going on vacation the past 5 years, we go yearly. We have a vacation planned the first week in December of this year. We would like to purchase a membership and use it to stay that week instead of starting to use it next year. When I was speaking with a resale store yesterday the man said we would probably be able to get reservations that week but it would likely not be at OKW or one of the cheaper points resorts. Is this true? Would we even be able to go this year?

Also, when are maintenance fees due? What do you typically ask the seller to pay at closing? I have read information about "making an offer" but I don't want to risk anything falling through. I don't want to be greedy but also don't want to get taken because we are novices. Anything else you can think of that we NEED TO KNOW. I understand the points system, I think our family will need to start out with about 250-270 points, I also understand the use already (11 mo vs 7 mo rule). I just want to know from people what you wish you had known before you bought into it. Is one resale company better than another? Is there one we should avoid? Have any of you used them for RCI condos and does that work out well? We love Disney, but we also love to ski and my parents love the Smoky Mtns. So we would likely use this for more than just Disney, are the other condos nice, easy to work with, book, etc?

I'm not getting the impression that you are a good candidate for DVC overall. Remember that $18K covered more than just the room, that's the part you need to compare to. For 4 people the best comparison is a studio to what you're used to, DVC will cost you significantly more than the value's you've had. It may give you more for that price, you'll have to make that determination. DVC will cost you roughly the same as a moderate for your trips or just a minor amount more.

Buying DVC for non DVC trips including exchanges routinely is NEVER a good choice. I'd point out the TSS is a sales company, it is not their job, nor are they necessarily knowledgeable about how the system works, ESPECIALLY with non DVC options. It is your job to learn enough about the system to know if DVC is right for you and that is true no matter how you buy including retail. I't usually takes a good 6 months of active investigation to learn enough to make a reasonable decision.

If you're looking at one option to do both Disney and other (esp Gatlinburg), DVC is not it. I'd suggest you look at Wyndham and Bluegreen, two other mini points systems. Both are very good and have their good and bad points for your situations. Wyndham has Bonnet Creek which is very close to Disney (right behind Caribbean Beach) and has better resorts in Gatlinburg area (more Sevierville). Bluegreen has a top notch resort also on I Drive (The Fountains) and nice resort in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg and is a better choice from an exchange standpoint outside their system than is Wyndham.

You asked what we wished we'd known, these are the options I wish I'd known better before we bought. We still love DVC but this would be much cheaper and for many of the options, frankly better. Personally were I going in to this new but knowing what I do know with your stated intent (Disney/Gatlinburg), I'd buy bluegreen and try to trade in to DVC for the Disney trips using the fountains as a back up (that's basically what I do now for most trips even though I own DVC points). For those that want to keep it simpler and avoid the exchange company where possible, Wyndham is likely a better option. Really the other issue, and likely more important one in your situation, is looking at the rest of their system. Thus I'd also look at the rest of the CLUB resorts (ignoring associated resorts) and see if there were other places I'd go routinely that they cover well. Wyndham has top options for PCB and Destin, the BG resorts in PCB are subpar and not club resorts. Both cover Branson but BG has the Wilderness club (Bass pro shops resort). Both cover NO, MB and Daytona well. Wyndham does better for south FL and has options in Charleston and Savannah. Wyndham has a lot better for HI and out west plus hey also tie in to Worldmark. BG is better from an exchange standont but you can also exchange with Wyndham.

Examples, comparing a 2 BR once a year, DVC resale will cost you $15K or more with fees (300 pts) in the $1500 range (varies with resort). BG (18K points=2BR Orlando) maybe $250-500 up front (possibly even less or free) with yearly fees of $1350. Wyndham will be a little more up front (224K points=2BR prime), maybe $500-1500 including closing and yearly fees more variable but roughly the same, in the $1050-1200 range yearly. You give up a direct DVC link for Orlando but you pick up a lot of direct and easy options elsewhere, save a ton of money up front though in this example, you're yearly costs will be similar, and save some every year on fees. If you increase the scale to maybe 2 weeks a year, you get more separation. Up front % differences remain the same but the fees separate. DVC is still in the $5 a point range so on 600 pts=$3K where Wyndham will be more in the $2K range and BG for most would be $2225. If you look at the risk and potential impact of special assessments all are pretty safe. Likely the safest with BG and highest risk Wyndham but again all safe overall.

To me the bottom line for 50/50 or less, non DVC is by far the best value and situation for almost everyone, for 80% Disney I'd buy DVC (just the points I needed there) and pay cash for other options. This assumes paying more than you are now (for DVC) is reasonable in your personal situation, that you can pay cash and that an extra $1500 a year easily fits into the budget.

 

[RobDoc]

... So, basically impossible to book at a RCI resort unless the timeshare holder happens to go on a DVC vacation at the exact time you are wanting to use their condo. ...

No, this is not correct. The timsehare exchange companies pool the exchanges they receive - so all it would take is someone banking their ski resort timeshare into the system regardless where they want to trade into - you are not doing a direct trade with a timeshare owner at the resort you'd like visit, you are just banking your week into the system for any other exchanger to utilize. With RCI, the exchange is valid for two years beyond the week banked.

However, the best use of a DVC memebrship is to stay at a DVC resort. If you feel you will want to exchange on a reguilar basis, it would be worthwhile to look into a less costly timeshare option and use that for trades into other vacation options.

You might want to visit www.tug2.net - Timeshare Users Group - for more information about effectively using the exchange programs.

Good luck!

 

[dbs1228]

I'm not getting the impression that you are a good candidate for DVC overall. Remember that $18K covered more than just the room, that's the part you need to compare to. For 4 people the best comparison is a studio to what you're used to, DVC will cost you significantly more than the value's you've had. It may give you more for that price, you'll have to make that determination. DVC will cost you roughly the same as a moderate for your trips or just a minor amount more.

Buying DVC for non DVC trips including exchanges routinely is NEVER a good choice. I'd point out the TSS is a sales company, it is not their job, nor are they necessarily knowledgeable about how the system works, ESPECIALLY with non DVC options. It is your job to learn enough about the system to know if DVC is right for you and that is true no matter how you buy including retail. I't usually takes a good 6 months of active investigation to learn enough to make a reasonable decision.

If you're looking at one option to do both Disney and other (esp Gatlinburg), DVC is not it. I'd suggest you look at Wyndham and Bluegreen, two other mini points systems. Both are very good and have their good and bad points for your situations. Wyndham has Bonnet Creek which is very close to Disney (right behind Caribbean Beach) and has better resorts in Gatlinburg area (more Sevierville). Bluegreen has a top notch resort also on I Drive (The Fountains) and nice resort in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg and is a better choice from an exchange standpoint outside their system than is Wyndham.

You asked what we wished we'd known, these are the options I wish I'd known better before we bought. We still love DVC but this would be much cheaper and for many of the options, frankly better. Personally were I going in to this new but knowing what I do know with your stated intent (Disney/Gatlinburg), I'd buy bluegreen and try to trade in to DVC for the Disney trips using the fountains as a back up (that's basically what I do now for most trips even though I own DVC points). For those that want to keep it simpler and avoid the exchange company where possible, Wyndham is likely a better option. Really the other issue, and likely more important one in your situation, is looking at the rest of their system. Thus I'd also look at the rest of the CLUB resorts (ignoring associated resorts) and see if there were other places I'd go routinely that they cover well. Wyndham has top options for PCB and Destin, the BG resorts in PCB are subpar and not club resorts. Both cover Branson but BG has the Wilderness club (Bass pro shops resort). Both cover NO, MB and Daytona well. Wyndham does better for south FL and has options in Charleston and Savannah. Wyndham has a lot better for HI and out west plus hey also tie in to Worldmark. BG is better from an exchange standont but you can also exchange with Wyndham.

Examples, comparing a 2 BR once a year, DVC resale will cost you $15K or more with fees (300 pts) in the $1500 range (varies with resort). BG (18K points=2BR Orlando) maybe $250-500 up front (possibly even less or free) with yearly fees of $1350. Wyndham will be a little more up front (224K points=2BR prime), maybe $500-1500 including closing and yearly fees more variable but roughly the same, in the $1050-1200 range yearly. You give up a direct DVC link for Orlando but you pick up a lot of direct and easy options elsewhere, save a ton of money up front though in this example, you're yearly costs will be similar, and save some every year on fees. If you increase the scale to maybe 2 weeks a year, you get more separation. Up front % differences remain the same but the fees separate. DVC is still in the $5 a point range so on 600 pts=$3K where Wyndham will be more in the $2K range and BG for most would be $2225. If you look at the risk and potential impact of special assessments all are pretty safe. Likely the safest with BG and highest risk Wyndham but again all safe overall.

To me the bottom line for 50/50 or less, non DVC is by far the best value and situation for almost everyone, for 80% Disney I'd buy DVC (just the points I needed there) and pay cash for other options. This assumes paying more than you are now (for DVC) is reasonable in your personal situation, that you can pay cash and that an extra $1500 a year easily fits into the budget.

I do agree with what you are saying but what I disagree on is IF OP wants to stay in a Disney resort in early December every year I do NOT see that happening with the exchanges through RCI! You have a lot more experience then me but I have looked over the past 4 years and have not seen DVC offered on RCI exchanges! I have noticed the past 6 months any and all DVC resorts listed on RCI are gone in hours. You have to be on top of it and make a quick decision if you see something. Just my experience.

 

[crisi]

Much of Dean's post assumes that having a timeshare at all is the right decision for you. It is possible that you are better off doing any number of other things. The big two.

1) Pay cash at regular hotels - there are a lot of deals out there for cash if you are in a position to take advantage of them. Particularly if you do last minute travel.

2) Rent other people's timeshares. There is a thriving DVC rental business, and the internet is full of timeshares all over the world to rent.

I own DVC for Disney - we take fairly predictable Disney trips on a fairly predictable schedule. I'm a fan of cash for my other vacations.
Timeshares generally involve a lot of planning and often some amount of flexibility.

 

[Dean]

I do agree with what you are saying but what I disagree on is IF OP wants to stay in a Disney resort in early December every year I do NOT see that happening with the exchanges through RCI! You have a lot more experience then me but I have looked over the past 4 years and have not seen DVC offered on RCI exchanges! I have noticed the past 6 months any and all DVC resorts listed on RCI are gone in hours. You have to be on top of it and make a quick decision if you see something. Just my experience.

There's no way to guarantee any exchange including using DVC point at other DVC resorts at the 7 month window. My intent wasn't to imply one could have everything but to give some options and perspective on those options. IMO the ONLY reasonable way to do both Disney and Gatlinburg with one option is with a non DVC timeshare (or similar) or with cash only. If one has to be on property every time, the only way to do that really is to book cash, not even DVC can totally guarantee that options though it will give you a more consistent chance at on property and certainly the most consistent for any timeshare.

Some people are so tied up in Disney they have to be on property (or think they do based on their assumptions for some). I can tell you that I've seen all on property WDW resorts and all unit types including 3 BR and all months which include the first 2 weeks of Dec. I've stayed the first 2 weeks of Dec in the last 5-6 years on exchanges. Guaranteed no, moving target yes but IMO it's much more workable currently that many here believe. Going forward, only time will tell.

But one could say the reverse for many exchanges. There are many locations and resorts that are more difficult to get in RCI and more in demand. My approach in the post you quoted was in response to the specific area (AL) and question (Disney and Gatlinburg) combined with info I felt fit the circumstances. The truth is everyone is different, essentially no 2 families are completely alike when it comes to this type of question. Gatlinburg would not be important to me though we go every few years. HH is very important but it must be beachfront so DVC HH is out as a routine. For another person Marriott or Starwood or a fixed week somewhere else might be a far better options.

Much of Dean's post assumes that having a timeshare at all is the right decision for you. It is possible that you are better off doing any number of other things.

That's correct, I think I alluded to it in some aspects but likely wasn't clear enough plus the OP was asking about using timeshares for the options in question. One has to be able to afford it (my def pay cash, no debt, etc), able to plan sufficiently ahead, and the individual choice needs to work otherwise. I could write 10K or even 100K scenarios that would be perfect for one family and horrible for another.

 

[twoj]

I LOVE our DVC! You should consider maybe buying a small contract and bank and borrow in the years you want to use it. Or, you could get a decent sized contract and rent out what you don't use to pay for trips in other areas. I have tried to make sense of Wyndham and Bluegreen but I can pay cash for the same or less than the cost of a timeshare and that includes paying next to nothing for Bluegreen or Wyndham on eBay.

 

[chunkygal]

First of all, you are smarter than most of us by thinking about it and asking questions before.
We have always used our points at Disney, but we love HHI as well. I have rented them when we couldn't use, but never traded out. There are exchange boards for the ski. To increase location variety, we bought a MVc timeshare for exchanging. The Wyndham system seems to be a popular one for trades and cost benefits according to timeshare group forums , but I don't know anything about their system.
I will say that DVC takes more planning and less last minute than we used to be able to do.but in the long run, it's success is good for us.