"Mothers don't stop Getting angry with stupid bigots who (mess) with their children!"

[kbeverina]

Along with this right, people also have the right to NOT be called a bigot because they don't agree with a lifestyle.

As has been pointed out, no you don't have the right to not be called a bigot.

Take the gay/straight/transexual issue off the table--how about if we had a large group of people in the US fighting for zero population growth. Overpopulation is a strain to our natural resources, usable water is slowing diminishing, fossil fuel production and use is killing our environment, etc. This group now wants to limit people to having one child and you can only have that child between the ages of 25 and 30... So, are you a bigot because you want to have 3 children or are you a bigot because you think that no one should have more than one child?

I cannot even follow this argument in the context of this discussion. How ridiculous.

Where do MY rights start in this. What if I don't want to be exposed to the gay lifestyle? What if I want to be able to walk down the street and not see two men kissing? Where are my civil rights???

We actually had an interesting discussion on this thread about this:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2629134&page=22

Your rights start with you. And end where someone else's begin.

Keep in mind this is all for argument sake......it isn't as easy as you are making it out to be. We DO, as a country, need to define what is morally acceptable or eventually society will turn into chaos.

This particular issue is actually pretty easy.

Exactly--and say that same sex marriage does effect my life--what if I don't want to watch same sex partners....where is the line of my rights vs their rights???

The line begins with you and ends where someone else's begin.

When do we as a society as a whole draw the line though? By allowing everything, the only result will be chaos. What if someone has the belief that they should be able to kill their own children if they don't like something that child did, doesn't effect your life so why should it matter, right???

See above. A child has a right to life. You can't infringe on that. No matter what someone's belief is. There are basic rights that we're born with. They're not granted to us because society has come to a consensus that we should have them.

Exactly, that is where we as a society need to decide what is morally right and wrong. If society as a whole finds golf objectionable, close up the golf courses.

Not the same. There's no right to have a golf course available to you.

No where in the first amendment does it say that people in the US can call other people a bigot because they don't agree with you...

The Constitution protects rights. It doesn't grant them.

As for the apples to oranges, no, it ins't, it is still talking about what is considered morally acceptable in our society. It is morally acceptable in other societies to kill your children does that make it wrong there too?? Our society as a whole, however, has decided that it is NOT ok to do this but what if there was a movement to change this just like there has been a movement in recent years to "accept" the gay lifestyle. Not to turn this into a religious post but even the Catholic church accepts gay people, they do NOT agree with the gay sex--that is a HUGE distinction. Our society as a whole has not decided that the gay lifestyle is morally acceptable. People are trying to change that.

You're looking at this the wrong way. The right to live is inherent. It doesn't matter that our society has decided it's not okay to kill children. What matters is that our society has decided to protect a child's right to live.

First, protesting and name calling are two different things. Again, why is it not ok to stand up for what you find morally objectionable, no one seems to be able to answer that...

Asked and answered many times. It's fine to find something morally objectionable. It's also fine for someone to think you're a bigot because of your objections.

I have been trying to follow this discussion and failing miserably.

Same here. I think it's difficult to follow because this poster has been trying to back away from her original statement about it being shoved down our throats.

 

[declansdad]

WOW this thread is something. You can always look to the CB for something juicy!

As for the original topic I'm very much up in the air about it. At what point do we say no this just isn't correct. We have allowed almost every type of "lifestyle" to exist. There are still things we as a society view as wrong but when will those become ok? I don't think we are that far from seeing that happen, the way we are going. Bigot or not there is something wrong with this, to me. You are born female YOU ARE A FEMALE! Born a Male you are a Male. Whether or not mentally you can relate is another topic that needs someone with a PHD. I feel for theses people, I do. To me it still boarders on something mentality wrong like a misfire so to speak. If in your head you don't feel like a female even though clearly downstairs you are isn't that a mental problem? I'm not being snarky. Seriously posing the question.
As for those say well it's not my business? Why isn't it? What IS your business then?

I just think it's insane how much our faces have to be rubbed in it. Not everyone is going to accept it and not everyone wants to see it.

She will always really be Chasity Bono she will always REALLY be a female.

Not your business, Not my business. The only person this has an impact on is Chaz, not Chastity, Bono. The easiest way for you to deal with it is to not pay attention to the show.

 

[nmmom95]

Not your business, Not my business. The only person this has an impact on is Chaz, not Chastity, Bono. The easiest way for you to deal with it is to not pay attention to the show.

I have to agree. If it is your (general) business about a transgendered person's private life, at what point does it stop? What if I am morally opposed to what goes on in your (again, general) bedroom? How it is my business?

 

[mdsoccermom]

Yep, and again, we live in the United States of America and it is our RIGHT to be able to protest that which we find objectionable. Along with this right, people also have the right to NOT be called a bigot because they don't agree with a lifestyle. You also have every right to fight for that lifestyle. Are you then a bigot because you want to live a gay lifestyle and not a straight lifestyle--bigoted against straight people? Somewhere along the road, people DO need to stand up for common moral beliefs or you see civilized societies fall...

Take the gay/straight/transexual issue off the table--how about if we had a large group of people in the US fighting for zero population growth. Overpopulation is a strain to our natural resources, usable water is slowing diminishing, fossil fuel production and use is killing our environment, etc. This group now wants to limit people to having one child and you can only have that child between the ages of 25 and 30... So, are you a bigot because you want to have 3 children or are you a bigot because you think that no one should have more than one child?

In the US, you have the right to protest something without government interference. That is the right afforded you and it does not come with the right NOT to be called a bigot. The Constitution does not offer protections in private speech.

I have an M.A. in Political Science, and I am do not recall the rights of which you speak ever covered in any of my studies. My copy of the Constitution must be missing something. Can you please show me where I can find the clause that says you have the right not to be called a bigot?

 

[Magpie]

Non alcoholic on the other table.

What's this? Teetotalers have been relegated to a SEPARATE table? Oh you can say it's "separate but equal" all you like, but I know bigotry when I see it!

I demand my right to sit at your table and drink my mocktails!

All joking aside, I'm actually finding this whole discussion fascinating as I researched transgender issues last year for a book. It's an incredibly complex issue and people's stories are heartbreaking to read.

Frankly, I'm in the "you are what you feel you are" camp, and since men and women are supposed to be functionally equal in society, it's really none of my business what kind of tackle you were born with. Even assuming the doctors could tell - which they can't in some cases.

Heck, even chromosomal analysis won't always tell you whether a person is male or female.

 

[Robinrs]

Sorry, I'd have answered ya sooner, but I was vaccumin' the gay house, foldin' the gay clothes 'n decidin' what to have for gay lunch.

I've learned it's hard for some folks to realize we as a society evolve whether they agree or not, that's the nature of education.

Rainbow sherbet for dessert?

I'm DYING here!!!!

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I completely understand where golfgirl is coming from. What worries me more is that int his small population so many attack her fro saying she is opposed to it. Hey golfgirl you are no alone, but you won't find many people post here because they don't want to be put through the ringer. I agree.

There is a moral code to life and enough is enough. Everyone wants to let people live free and die. That idea is one day going to kill us all. Everyone is not right! I wish I could really say the examples I see coming as ok lifestyles but i'm afraid it would cause an out cry,.

Needless to say eventually as a society we are going to have to figure out whether we are going to let everything slide because " we don't want to hurt people feelings" and we are going to say NO you need help, serious mental help. After all, it's one thing to dress like a guy and present yourself as such its a whole different level when you actually remove and change parts. We aren't Mr. & Mr's Potato heads with interchangeable parts, we are people. Sometimes things are just wrong and it's ok for them to be wrong.

As for my rubbed int the face, come on really the gay lifestyle is EVERYWHERE! Like i said I have no real problem with it i get it you're here, you're *, I should get used to it. I would however find it easier to get used to if you weren't so dang loud about and trying to tell me i'm wrong if i don't agree with 100% everything you say. It's everyone's business because eventually it will change laws, how programs are funded. ETC.

 

[kbeverina]

As for the original topic I'm very much up in the air about it. At what point do we say no this just isn't correct. We have allowed almost every type of "lifestyle" to exist. There are still things we as a society view as wrong but when will those become ok?

Who is we? Society? It happens all the time that society says something is incorrect. Society even passes laws to support those feelings. But those laws cannot trump our Constitutional rights. When they do, it doesn't mean we don't have them anymore, it means they're not being protected. Sometimes it takes a while to work through our legal system, but, hopefully, in the end, basic rights will be protected when society says it's not correct to do so.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

Sometimes things are just wrong and it's ok for them to be wrong.

Not too long ago, it was commonly believed that equality for women and African Americans was wrong, just wrong.

And I'm sure Golfgal is thrilled to have you on her side.

 

[Magpie]

I completely understand where golfgirl is coming from. What worries me more is that int his small population so many attack her fro saying she is opposed to it. Hey golfgirl you are no alone, but you won't find many people post here because they don't want to be put through the ringer. I agree.

There is a moral code to life and enough is enough. Everyone wants to let people live free and die. That idea is one day going to kill us all. Everyone is not right! I wish I could really say the examples I see coming as ok lifestyles but i'm afraid it would cause an out cry,.

Needless to say eventually as a society we are going to have to figure out wheter we are going to let everything slide because " we don't want to hurt people feelings" and we are going to say NO you need help, serious mental help. After all, it's one thing to dress like a guy and present yourself as such its a whole different level when you actually remove and change parts. We aren't Mr. & Mr's Potato heads with interchangeable parts, we are people. Sometimes things are just wrong and it's ok for them to be wrong.

I assume you're also opposed to tummy tucks, breast enlargements, face lifts, dental realignment, removing birthmarks, nose jobs, ears pinned back, hair plugs, removing webs between people's fingers and toes, any kind of organ donation, donor hearts, donor faces...

 

[kbeverina]

I completely understand where golfgirl is coming from. What worries me more is that int his small population so many attack her fro saying she is opposed to it. Hey golfgirl you are no alone, but you won't find many people post here because they don't want to be put through the ringer. I agree.

There is a moral code to life and enough is enough. Everyone wants to let people live free and die. That idea is one day going to kill us all. Everyone is not right! I wish I could really say the examples I see coming as ok lifestyles but i'm afraid it would cause an out cry,.

Needless to say eventually as a society we are going to have to figure out whether we are going to let everything slide because " we don't want to hurt people feelings" and we are going to say NO you need help, serious mental help. After all, it's one thing to dress like a guy and present yourself as such its a whole different level when you actually remove and change parts. We aren't Mr. & Mr's Potato heads with interchangeable parts, we are people. Sometimes things are just wrong and it's ok for them to be wrong.

As for my rubbed int the face, come on really the gay lifestyle is EVERYWHERE! Like i said I have no real problem with it i get it you're here, you're *, I should get used to it. I would however find it easier to get used to if you weren't so dang loud about and trying to tell me i'm wrong if i don't agree with 100% everything you say. It's everyone's business because eventually it will change laws, how programs are funded. ETC.

People use surgery to remove parts and change their bodies every day. People get transplanted body parts and organs every day. By necessity and by choice. You're making this harder than it has to be.

 

[Uncle Remus]

What's this? Teetotalers have been relegated to a SEPARATE table? Oh you can say it's "separate but equal" all you like, but I know bigotry when I see it!

I demand my right to sit at your table and drink my mocktails!


All joking aside, I'm actually finding this whole discussion fascinating as I researched transgender issues last year for a book. It's an incredibly complex issue and people's stories are heartbreaking to read.

Frankly, I'm in the "you are what you feel you are" camp, and since men and women are supposed to be functionally equal in society, it's really none of my business what kind of tackle you were born with. Even assuming the doctors could tell - which they can't in some cases.

Heck, even chromosomal analysis won't always tell you whether a person is male or female.

Oh, I want one of your mocktails, I mean, really 'n right now!

And yeah, for sure, the transgender issue is extremely complex. It's funny when some folks say biology rules sex assignment yet they didn't further their education in the science field.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I'm not opposed to plastic surgery. Why would i be? This isn't just plastic surgery though. This is changing much more than droopy eyes or getting bigger breasts or reducing them. They aren't comparable. It's not just some simple surgery that enhances someones appearance.

No matter what Chasity is Chasity Bono and she is XX. Her brain needed changing and healing, not her body.

 

[FireDancer]

...attack her fro saying she is opposed to it.

I think fros are back in style though.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I completely understand where golfgirl is coming from. What worries me more is that int his small population so many attack her fro saying she is opposed to it. Hey golfgirl you are no alone, but you won't find many people post here because they don't want to be put through the ringer. I agree.

perhaps you missed this post by golfgal:

Also, I never said I PERSONALLY objected to that lifestyle, just pointing out that it is funny that it is ok to call someone a stupid bigot but not ok to object to something you might find morally objectionable. Also, it's a discussion board, just discussing the topic at hand...

She didn't say she was opposed to it and so no one is "attacking" her for that. People are disagreeing with her reasoning that anyone has the right not to be called a bigot, and the right not to see other people do things they might find objectionable.

 

[declansdad]

I completely understand where golfgirl is coming from. What worries me more is that int his small population so many attack her fro saying she is opposed to it. Hey golfgirl you are no alone, but you won't find many people post here because they don't want to be put through the ringer. I agree.

There is a moral code to life and enough is enough. Everyone wants to let people live free and die. That idea is one day going to kill us all. Everyone is not right! I wish I could really say the examples I see coming as ok lifestyles but i'm afraid it would cause an out cry,.

Needless to say eventually as a society we are going to have to figure out whether we are going to let everything slide because " we don't want to hurt people feelings" and we are going to say NO you need help, serious mental help. After all, it's one thing to dress like a guy and present yourself as such its a whole different level when you actually remove and change parts. We aren't Mr. & Mr's Potato heads with interchangeable parts, we are people. Sometimes things are just wrong and it's ok for them to be wrong.

As for my rubbed int the face, come on really the gay lifestyle is EVERYWHERE! Like i said I have no real problem with it i get it you're here, you're *, I should get used to it. I would however find it easier to get used to if you weren't so dang loud about and trying to tell me i'm wrong if i don't agree with 100% everything you say. It's everyone's business because eventually it will change laws, how programs are funded. ETC.

This is scary!

You say you have no problem with other lifestyles but your posts say otherwise. "Going to kill us" , come on!

 

[Mrs.Toad]

No matter what Chasity is Chasity Bono and she is XX. Her brain needed changing and healing, not her body.

Luckily for Chaz, his doctors disagree with you.

 

[cornflake]

I completely understand where golfgirl is coming from. What worries me more is that int his small population so many attack her fro saying she is opposed to it. Hey golfgirl you are no alone, but you won't find many people post here because they don't want to be put through the ringer. I agree.

There is a moral code to life and enough is enough. Everyone wants to let people live free and die. That idea is one day going to kill us all. Everyone is not right! I wish I could really say the examples I see coming as ok lifestyles but i'm afraid it would cause an out cry,.

Needless to say eventually as a society we are going to have to figure out whether we are going to let everything slide because " we don't want to hurt people feelings" and we are going to say NO you need help, serious mental help. After all, it's one thing to dress like a guy and present yourself as such its a whole different level when you actually remove and change parts. We aren't Mr. & Mr's Potato heads with interchangeable parts, we are people. Sometimes things are just wrong and it's ok for them to be wrong.

As for my rubbed int the face, come on really the gay lifestyle is EVERYWHERE! Like i said I have no real problem with it i get it you're here, you're *, I should get used to it. I would however find it easier to get used to if you weren't so dang loud about and trying to tell me i'm wrong if i don't agree with 100% everything you say. It's everyone's business because eventually it will change laws, how programs are funded. ETC.

What is unclear about that YOUR moral code is not EVERYONE'S moral code?

The gay lifestyle is everywhere - because gay people are everywhere. Same as they've always been.

Just that in this country, it's very recently changed so that they're not attacked (well, mostly), shunned, treated differently (well, in some things), etc., and thus more feel no need to hide that they are gay.

They were always here.

As for the body parts - see my other post. Do you tell the person who got the **** job that they'll always REALLY be flat chested? Do you tell the person who changed their name when they got married that they'll always REALLY be the previous name?

 

[Princess Dolly]

I'm not opposed to plastic surgery. Why would i be? This isn;t just plastic surgery though. This is changing much more than droopy eyes or getting bigger ****s or reducing them. They aren't comparable.

No matter what Chasity is Chasity Bono and she is XX. Her brain needed changing and healing, not her body.

I don't think Chaz is the one who needs changing and healing.

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

I'm not opposed to plastic surgery. Why would i be? This isn't just plastic surgery though. This is changing much more than droopy eyes or getting bigger breasts or reducing them. They aren't comparable. It's not just some simple surgery that enhances someones appearance.

No matter what Chasity is Chasity Bono and she is XX. Her brain needed changing and healing, not her body.

I think it's glaringly obvious whose brain is in need of help.

Here's a clue: It isn't Chaz Bono.