Mostly venting about older teen and Disney

[TeensMom]

I totally agree with most of the posters that a 19 year old's desire to drink should not be a deciding factor on a family vacation.

I also agree with those who comment that 18-20yo are left out on most cruise ships. We have been on 3 cruises and our teens loved Common Grounds and made lots of friends on each one. This past summer, our just 18 yo daughter was looking forward to CG. We even emailed ahead to make sure her recent 18 yo status would not be an issue to getting into CG. We were told it was fine but once on the ship they tried to revoke this approval. It took a couple of nights (with my husband getting called out of dinner to go talk to whoever was in charge). At any rate, she was allowed in and once again had a blast.

However, we were cruising with another family who had a 20 yo son. He is not a wild child and seemed to have a good time with us and his folks. We visited Rockin' Bar D several nights but couldn't stay long because of the smoke. I couldn't help but wonder if he was really having a good time - he never complained but never found anyone to hang with either.

I suggested on this board after our cruise that there should be a "young adult" hangout on the ship - pool tables, juke box, dance floor, video game or two. They could back it up to an existing bar so that they shared the bar and bartenders but make it non-smoking and definitely "card" the customers. I think a lot of us Disney fans have kids in the older teen, younger adult age. We are still footing the bill for vacations, want to take a family vacation, but also want our kids to have reasonable and legal fun.

I haven't been on the Magic since the redo but there was a lot of underutilized space - the two piano bars are almost always nearly empty. A young adult hang out would be a better use.

 

[mom_rules]

We have the same problem- 19 year old and 20 year old-which, by the way are legal to drink and gamble here. They don't want to come because it's "Disney" but there is no way I am leaving them here alone. Is the legal age 18 in the Bahamas?

 

[crisi]

Sorry, I didn't mean to psychobabble.

I just fail to understand why anyone would want to bring a 19 year old on a cruise they didn't want to go on. And I can see why it might be more important to your sister to go on a vacation with her entire family on a vacation everyone will enjoy - even if her son is being somewhat of a spoiled brat about the whole thing and it means going someplace that might be her second or third choice in trips.

Granted, wanting to drink is a lousy reason in my book. But at 19 your sister has precious few family vacations left with him. I took my last family vacation with my parents at 17. While we have gone places since then, there either haven't been all of us, or we've had extras (boyfriends, husbands, kids). Given a choice between vacationing with my sister and her family, or my own kids, I'll take my own kids every time - even if it means going skiing (which I hate) over Disney.

 

[brack]

The really sad thing for me about this is that the 19yo already has the mind set that nothing can be fun if it does not involve drinking. I fear that he is headed for a rough future ... not to mention his family.

 

[Buckaroo's Dad]

The really sad thing for me about this is that the 19yo already has the mind set that nothing can be fun if it does not involve drinking. I fear that he is headed for a rough future ... not to mention his family.

Amen to that, brack.

There are more things for the 18-20 year old young ladies to do. The spa, tea, tanning by the pool. None of these interest the average 18-20 year old young man. They are truly the lost demographic on DCL.

Anne - your comment started me thinking in terms of what does an 18-to-20 year old WANT to do? DCL offers the basketball courts. They also have a choice of the different educational, or perhaps I should say learning, forums including The Navigator Series, The Art of Entertainment series and Disney Behind the Scenes. They can join in on Jackpot Bingo and can attend the "Single, Single Parents or Traveling Alone" meets. The Buena Vista Theatre offers movies for all different ages and interests. Aside from the "main event" Family Shows, there is also a choice of Family Cabaret and/or Adult Cabaret as well as various music and dance venues. This age group can always have a go at ping pong or shuffleboard or even the games at Quartermasters...

The 18-to-20 year old age group doesn't appear to be completely berift of activities...

 

[FredS]

I mean, I understand having younger children and helping them hook up with playmates. Even middling teens enjoy hanging out with others their age. By this time he shouldn't need to be surrounded by his peers to have fun, and since he is now at college (and I expect getting plenty of drinking and hot tub time there) I just don't get how he can't find some fun ways to pass the time like the rest of the family -- there are a ton of things to do in which he should find some degree of entertainment (other than cruise for chicks and drink -- he seems to do that much of the rest of the time, I guess I just am disappointed that he is not mature enough to give his family seven days where he puts those desires on the back burner. I can't quite get being that self-centered and closeminded. IF he had ever held a job then he could take some cash and go on his "party cruise" instead of expecting his mom to finance it. [I will not say this to my nephew, I will not say this......]

I do understand my sister wanting him to go on the trip and to some degree her willingness to accommodate him. I don't understand his absolute refusal to accommodate her plans.

 

[Lisa F]

Originally posted by Buckaroo's Dad
The 18-to-20 year old age group doesn't appear to be completely berift of activities...

You mean there isn't a large divide between the 18-20 year olds and the rest of the passengers? Or did you mean bereft?

 

[DisneyGator01]

My opinion.. he should suck it up, and just go, so it's not party time. Either way, he's going on a family vacation Not like he can go out to the club, buy a few, meet a cute girl and bring her back to mom and dad's stateroom.

Besides..what's he paying for anyway? When Mom and Dad put a roof over your head and food on your plate for 18 years, and then drop 10 grand a year to get a you a good education.. you go on the vacation they want to go on. Period. At least that is the rational my mom would use

Oh well, teenagers.. gotta love them sometimes. My mother should be made a saint. She had to put up with three of us being rowdy and giving her grief. Tell your sister to take the vacation she wants.. she deserves it. He's had 18 years of vacation.

 

[Dean]

My basic feeling don't vary much from what most everyone has posted. I will add though that you should take pictures of very pretty girl you can find and give him a slide show when you get back, showing him what he missed. Fred, I certainly don't know your family but would wonder if there's not something else going on. Also, you may be glad he didn't go as he likely would make it bad for every one.

 

[FredS]

Originally posted by Dean
Fred, I certainly don't know your family but would wonder if there's not something else going on. Also, you may be glad he didn't go as he likely would make it bad for every one.

I fully expect my sister to regret making these plans to comply with his wishes, but it might be months or even years down the road. He's not a horrible person, but is very spoiled. Mothers sometimes go too far to make their children happy. But if you had told me a week ago that my sister would go this far to please him, particularly when he is being so blatant about his reasons, I would have said you were crazy. If it could happen in my extended family, I expect it could happen in most.

Oh, well, back to planning our next cruise!!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by FredS
I fully expect my sister to regret making these plans to comply with his wishes, but it might be months or even years down the road. He's not a horrible person, but is very spoiled. Mothers sometimes go too far to make their children happy. But if you had told me a week ago that my sister would go this far to please him, particularly when he is being so blatant about his reasons, I would have said you were crazy. If it could happen in my extended family, I expect it could happen in most.

Oh, well, back to planning our next cruise!!

My Brother and SIL backed out last minute on a trip this past summer to HH. We had 3 two BR units for the entire family (both sides). With them not going, we would have only needed two units. I could have easily rented the extra unit for $1500-1800 had I known only a couple of months ahead. I doubt we'll invite them anymore as they just decided not to go even though we made it clear when they accepted that we needed at least 2-3 months notice if they changed their mind. They have a habit of this type of approach, they can pay their own way from now own. Hopefully it will work out for you.

 

[dianedisney]

If I remember correctly from reading some travel-trade magazines a few years ago, Carnival was one of the MAIN reasons alot of cruise lines bumped their drinking age from 18 to 21. Carnival had alot of trouble with teens on "Spring Break" cruises and "Senior Trip" cruises. I personally experienced a four day cruise during a "Senior Trip" cruise and was amazed and shocked at the outcome of that cruise. There were drunk teens EVERYWHERE on the ship. My favorite time is a sunrise just when the decks have been hosed down and watching the beautiful sky. As I stepped out on the deck (as it was still not quite light out) I tripped over dozens (not a few, but dozens) of passed out teens sleeping on the deck itself and the pool chairs. Needless to say I returned to my cabin. I took my sister-in-law on this cruise for her birthday present and will never again cruise at time time of year again. We couldn't even enjoy a drink at the bar in the dance club without male teens trying to hit on an "older" woman for bragging rights. The bartender finally told them to get lost or security would be called. They ran up and down the hallways all night long laughing and screaming. If I also remember correctly Carnival had several lawsuits against them by teen girls saying they were sexually molested by crew members after they had been drinking. Like I said this is vague memory here but it was shortly after that I was attending a Carnival Cruise Line Seminar and they were "strongly" promoting Carinival as a Family Cruise Line not the "Fun Ships" as before. But as someone mentioned in an earlier post, Carnival is the cheapest to cruise and cost may be a factor. As much as I love DCL it is not the most inexpensive cruise line to book.

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Buckaroo's Dad
Anne - your comment started me thinking in terms of what does an 18-to-20 year old WANT to do? DCL offers the basketball courts. They also have a choice of the different educational, or perhaps I should say learning, forums including The Navigator Series, The Art of Entertainment series and Disney Behind the Scenes. They can join in on Jackpot Bingo and can attend the "Single, Single Parents or Traveling Alone" meets. The Buena Vista Theatre offers movies for all different ages and interests. Aside from the "main event" Family Shows, there is also a choice of Family Cabaret and/or Adult Cabaret as well as various music and dance venues. This age group can always have a go at ping pong or shuffleboard or even the games at Quartermasters...

The 18-to-20 year old age group doesn't appear to be completely berift of activities...

BD--how many 18 year old boys do you know who want to play Bingo? Shuffleboard? Learn how to fold napkins? And be realistic--there are not going to be young men in that age group at the "single parents/traveling alone" meets. As a single parent, how much would you have in common with an 18 year old? How many times can you go to the movies in one week? And really--do you think they want to try to dance on a dance floor full or mom's, dad's and little kids? I'm not syaing there is nothing for them, but there is a definite lack of scheduled events and programming geared towards them, and no place for them to call "home".

What would be good to see DCL add? Another level of "programming" for that age group. Have a place for them like CG's with games, THEIR music (which is much different than is played in the adult and family lounges), scheduled basketball and some other sports--touch football maybe?, educational programs geared to that demographic, scavenger hunts, many of the same activities that they offer in CG actually.

Anne

 

[FredS]

Originally posted by ducklite
BD--how many 18 year old boys do you know who want to play Bingo? Shuffleboard? Learn how to fold napkins? And be realistic--there are not going to be young men in that age group at the "single parents/traveling alone" meets. As a single parent, how much would you have in common with an 18 year old? How many times can you go to the movies in one week? And really--do you think they want to try to dance on a dance floor full or mom's, dad's and little kids? I'm not syaing there is nothing for them, but there is a definite lack of scheduled events and programming geared towards them, and no place for them to call "home".

What would be good to see DCL add? Another level of "programming" for that age group. Have a place for them like CG's with games, THEIR music (which is much different than is played in the adult and family lounges), scheduled basketball and some other sports--touch football maybe?, educational programs geared to that demographic, scavenger hunts, many of the same activities that they offer in CG actually.

Anne

Well, for what it is worth I don't particularly want to play shuffleboard or bingo or dance on a "mixed" floor of folks or learn to fold napkins but I had a blast on our cruise. I didn't try to surround myself with people of my "age group" either. That is one of the main points -- I can understand how it is important, perhaps essential for programming for CHILDREN to help them spend some time away from the family perhaps while mom and dad go to Palo. If they enjoy it enough to choose to spend additional time there then that is just "gravy" in that they could have fun with the family or new found friends. But for a young adult to require more specific entertainment directed, somehow, to them is a sign of immaturity in my opinion. There seems to be something a bit wrong with an adult who can't find some entertainment for a few days on a Disney cruise, be it spending some time with one's family, relaxing on the deck or one of the lounges, movies, people watching, shows, shopping, beaches and excursions, exploring the ship, working out, etc. etc. etc. Whether they would prefer a more "party" type ship is not the point, I just don't see justification for whining about not being entertained enough.

 

[ducklite]

FredS-

Part of my problem is that my son has disabilities. Most of them are "hidden". He fits in much better with other boys 2-3 years younger than he is than those who are 2-3 years older. But because he will be 18 in a few months, that no longer is an option with him on DCL. I somehow don't think he is the only 18-20 year old that is looking for more activities geared directly towards them. I guess bottom line there is no place for 18-20 year olds to call home and meet up with each other on DCL.

Anne

 

[DisneyHumbug]

We are going on the 3 day cruise end of Dec. My DS is 19. This vacation is family time and my kids know it. We have fun with each other and don't spend enough time together since 2 are away at school. We are all looking forward to lots of laughing, and that includes shuffleboard. He has plenty of time to "party" with his friends, but this is family time. I shudder when I think back to what I was doing at 19, and drinking was legal!!!

 

[tecdavidt]

Well the mother of the 19yr old has our sympathy. We have three boys ages 23, 20 and soon to be 20. I remember what I and their father were like at age 19. Party time, drinking was what was in, oh yes, college classes did come first. Just because the the young man states he wants to drink does not label him an alcoholic. It also does not mean he wants to be drunk. The mother does not want him to be a jerk because she made him cruise on Disney. She knows her family best and maybe she doesn't really want to go back on Disney who knows but her.

Our 20 yr old opted out of our cruise because he was bored when he cruised at age 19 which was the first 7 day cruise of the Magic. We left him home alone because at age 18 he was an legal adult. If he caused any problems with our home he knew I would use the legal system, period. A 19 yr old does have the right to say no, "I will not go with you" and as a parent you can not make them. You can say, you can not stay at our home if you choose.

We have always thought the 19-20 group is the forgotten group on DCL. I have posted this several times in the past. The key we have found is that if the dependent cruises at a younger age they love DCL. They learn to adapt to the rules as they get older.

As for young drinking ages, in the Bahamas the age is 18 so we let our son drink on the island. He did not get drunk. Our last cruise with the younger boys was Spring Break '02. Both boys were 18. Both were legal in St. Martten. We let them have a good time. Neither were drunk and both had no problem having dinner with us back on the ship and we always have early dining.

We let our sons know this, in the USA the legal drinking age is 21. If you drink and get caught, don't call us because you knew it was illegal period. Now that oldest son is 23 he could care less about drinking. I was also raised the exact same way. Don't make a big deal about it, follow the rules, you get caught you pay the price and don't call Mom and Dad to fix it.

Again my sympathy for the mother. Raising teens isn't easy. If she feels this is the best route more power to her. Kathy

 

[KarenC]

Originally posted by Rob1559
Leave him behind. That will make it easier to save money, plus they won't have to listen to him whine. Bluntly ask why they have to change their plans because he wants to drink? He sounds a little slef-centered to me. Convince them to have fun on their own.

I haven't read this entire thread, and it seems that so far, no one shares my point of view. My oldest daughter is now in college. I assume the nephew is as well. Now that she's gone, the times we get to see her are few and far between. When we do see her, we have to share her with her high school friends. We've already gone on a few vacations without her. But if we're going on vacation when she's free, you bet we're going to do something she'd enjoy doing. Fortunately, she doesn't mind that we're planning a Disney vacation over Winter Break--and she's meeting up with a boy that she met on our 2000 Wonder cruise. But if I had a choice between spending time with my brother and his family or with my own daughter during her limited vacation time, there's no doubt that I'd consider her preferences over my brother's. Invite your niece to join you and your family and let your sister do what works for her family.

 

[goodstarr]

A 19yo boy not wanting to go on a Disney cruise filled with little kids. Sounds pretty normal to me. (It is sooo not cool to tell your "boys" that you went on the Disney cruise) A 19yo boy wanting to go on a cruise where there is more partying and the ability to drink beer. Sounds pretty average to me (And don't think like you parents haven't been there/done that in your youth) A parent wanting to take a vacation where everyone will be mostly satisfied. Sounds normal to me. (The younger sibling will probably enjoy herself on any ship with a kid's program more than the 19yo will enjoy himself on DCL ) What is the lesser of two evils? Wanting to spend time with your family without a 19yo boy sulking all day or spending time with your family where the 19yo is having fun, the younger sibling is enjoying herself and the parents aren't regretting their decision for the whole 7 days?

 

[hilltopfamily]

glad to see a couple posts now that are in line with my thinking. Expectations that a 19-20 year old male should gladly accept the chance at a DCL trip is not realistic. Yes, this young male probably isn't too concerned with the OP's wishes for an extended family get together and is a bit more concerned with hanging out with others his own age and in line with his own interests. He most likely is a thoughtful and caring son to the OP's sister most of the time, but to condemn him for preferring a cruise with more people his own age over a Disney cruise with the mouse is not really fair! I wonder how many posters were interested in "partying" at that age? The OP wanted to "vent" and he got to do that. MHO is that compromise on a different cruise line should be considered if a get-together is still being attempted.