More bad movie $$$ news for disney???

Bob O

<font color=navy>Voice of Reason<br><font color=re
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March 24, 2004
'The Alamo': A Battle Disney May Never Forget
By SHARON WAXMAN

OS ANGELES, March 23 — When the dust finally settles, the Walt Disney Company may not want to remember "The Alamo."

An updated epic about the historic last stand at the Texas fort, the big-budget feature was meant to be Disney's prestigious, star-studded showpiece for Christmas 2003, the culmination of a banner year for Disney Studios.

Instead it is turning into an unintended emblem of the embattled media company's troubles. The movie, over budget and extensively recut, will finally be released on April 9, laboring under the taint of skeptical industry talk. Starring Dennis Quaid as Sam Houston, Billy Bob Thornton as Davy Crockett and Jason Patric as James Bowie, "The Alamo" may ultimately find a broad audience. But its journey, from conception to release, has been a bumpy one.

The film was originally slated to be directed by Ron Howard in 2002, just after his best-picture Oscar for "A Beautiful Mind," and to star Russell Crowe. The budget was to be about $125 million, and the movie was to have an R rating for violence. Instead Disney switched gears to opt for a lower budget and a less experienced director, John Lee Hancock, who was to make the film for $75 million and a tamer PG-13 rating, to draw a wider audience.

But after a false start and recuts, "The Alamo" has ended up costing about $107 million and has gone from a 3-hour version to one about 2 hours 15 minutes, the filmmakers say. The role of General Houston, originally intended for Mr. Crowe and played by Mr. Quaid, has been reduced, said Mark Johnson, the movie's producer.

The film, screened this week for a reporter, is heavy on history and sweeping shots of the reconstructed Texas monument, but short on action and drama.

Part of the problem with the movie, Mr. Johnson acknowledged in December, was the lack of a central hero. "There's no one lead," he said during the re-editing process, when three editors were reworking on sections of the film. "We've got to keep six characters alive, which is proving really difficult. We may have attempted to do too much." Last week Mr. Johnson and the director, Mr. Hancock, said they were happy with the final version. "I feel really good about it," Mr. Hancock said. "The scenes are shorter. If any character suffered from this, it's secondary" to the story.

Films that are pulled from release schedules for further editing are often labeled troubled in Hollywood, and "The Alamo" is no exception. Its fate has been fodder for Texas newspapers and Internet movie sites. And though script changes, delays and inflated budgets are not uncommon, the attention on the troubles of "The Alamo" could hardly come at a worse time for Disney. While last year the movie studio was the company's one bright spot, this year it has already had one pricey disappointment in "Hidalgo," an estimated $140 million production (Disney officials would not confirm the figure) that so far has taken in only $48.5 million at the box office.

An expensive animated film opening on April 2, "Home on the Range," which is said to have also cost close to $100 million, has poor advance word according to market research.

All of this comes just on the heels of the shareholder revolt against Michael D. Eisner, the Walt Disney Company's chief executive, which led this month to his removal as chairman and the appointment of George J. Mitchell to the position.

Dick Cook, chairman of Disney Studios, said he was confident that the delayed film would be worth the wait. "I'm thrilled" with the new version, Mr. Cook said in an interview on Monday. "We all felt we've got something really great, really special. We made an epic."

In May 2002 Disney proudly announced its intention to remake the classic tale of "The Alamo," with Mr. Eisner saying the film would "capture the post-Sept. 11 surge in patriotism." Disney said it would take care to give context to the Mexican side of the battle, leading to observations in the press that the film would be a politically correct version of the tale.

The latest of many screen versions, "The Alamo" was to be based on the 1836 story of about 200 defenders — mostly Texians (Anglo immigrants to Texas, then a part of Mexico) and a few Tejanos (people of Mexican descent living in Texas) — who held the fort for 13 days before it fell to Mexican troops led by Gen. Antonio López de Santa Anna.

The Alamo heroes included Col. William Travis (Patrick Wilson), Bowie (Mr. Patric) and Crockett (Mr. Thornton), whose last stand passed into history and became a rallying cry for General Houston to win the war for Texas independence.

Mr. Howard had spent a year developing the script with the writer John Sayles ("Lone Star," 1996). The Oscar-winning writer Steven Gaghan ("Traffic," 2000) had been hired to polish the story, and vast sets had begun to rise on a plain near Austin when in July 2002 Disney said Mr. Howard would not be the director.

At the time Disney executives explained that the budget was too high, since an estimated $30 million would go to Mr. Howard, Mr. Crowe and Mr. Howard's producing partner, Brian Grazer. Mr. Grazer said Mr. Eisner mainly pulled the plug over the R rating, which was the only way Mr. Howard saw to direct the film.

"We finally found the right filter through which the story was worth retelling," Mr. Grazer said. "The only way it really made sense was within the psyche of the three guys" inside the Alamo fort.

Mr. Grazer said that he and Mr. Howard felt they had had Disney's commitment to make an R-rated movie, which the studio ultimately rejected, and were upset because they had used their influence to get Mr. Crowe, much in demand at the time, to star. Ethan Hawke had also signed on for a supporting role, and Sean Penn was close to taking the Bowie role, Mr. Grazer said.

Disney instead hired Mr. Hancock, whose first film, "The Rookie," had become a modest hit. Mr. Hancock, a Texas native, said he had spent five weeks deciding to take the job, agreeing to a lower budget and a PG-13 rating.

"I always looked at it as a character drama on a historic stage," said Mr. Hancock, 46, about undertaking the shoot. "I was frightened. I'd never done anything like this before. Some days we had 12 cameras going, at once. Sometimes it was like directing the `Monday Night Football' game from the booth. It's big."

Shooting, scheduled for November 2002, got under way in January 2003, with a budget that had soared to $95 million. The studio erected what the producers say was the largest set built in North America, a 50-acre swath recreating the Alamo fort and the 19th-century town of San Antonio in Dripping Springs, 75 miles outside of modern-day Austin. "You could shoot 360 degrees around safely without seeing anything but the entire town of San Antonio as it existed in 1836," Mr. Johnson said.

Mr. Hancock ended up with one million feet of film, and just a few months to trim it into shape, in time to be the centerpiece of Disney's Oscar season, Christmas films. Ultimately the director was not happy with the cut he had completed by October. The movie was tested at a length of 3 hours, and again at a length of 2 hours 25 minutes. "Neither one was the right movie," Mr. Johnson said.

The essential problem was that the movie broke into three sections, with the fall of the Alamo happening at the end of the second section, and the third act involving Houston taking revenge for the fall of the fort. The director was grappling with getting to the siege and battle more quickly.

On Oct. 29, with some billboard advertising already in place and the trailer mailed to the news media, Mr. Cook, chairman of Disney Studios, agreed to pull "The Alamo" from its schedule, just eight weeks ahead of its planned release date.

"Ultimately the end product is more important than the need to meet arbitrary deadlines for awards, etc.," Mr. Cook said at the time.

The epic was trimmed to two hours, then tested. Two weeks ago another 15 minutes was reinserted into the film. The filmmakers said that Mr. Quaid's role had shrunk considerably and that other roles had been cut entirely.

For Mr. Hancock, the director, it has been an agonizing process. Last week he was near tears, Mr. Johnson said, when he called an actor to tell him his role had to be eliminated.

Despite the delay Disney has put significant marketing muscle behind the film, spending an estimated extra $35 million on advertising, including during the Super Bowl. The studio has planned a star-studded, blowout premiere in San Antonio on Saturday night, and a three-day media junket.

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help |


With the major bath they are taking on Hildago and the amounts they are spending to make/pr for Home on the Range/Alamo things dont look to good for disneyat the bopx office, i guess if they are lucky these 3 movies may make 3/4 of what Passion has made??? I guess they better hope Pixar saves them as they have no POTC this summer.
I guess disney should have made Alamo with Howard/Crowe, they would have spent less, had a much better product and the movie would have been done on time!!
 
Originally posted by Bob O
I guess disney should have made Alamo with Howard/Crowe, they would have spent less, had a much better product and the movie would have been done on time!!

I don't buy this, myself. First, Howard/Crowe would have cost more (even with the cost overruns of the current version).

Second, an R-rating would be likely to significantly decrease box office returns (all other things being equal), making it even harder to get the full return on investment.

Finally (and this is just a case of Texas bias), I personally think the current director/cast is a bit better suited to the movie. While Howard is a good director, I think Hancock did a great job of capturing the feel of (part of) Texas in "The Rookie," and I have more trust in him to make a movie about the Alamo than even Howard. A cast including Quaid and Thornton just appeals to me more for a movie about the Alamo than one with Russell Crowe and Sean Penn (not that they aren't great actors, just that they don't seem to "fit" as well, to me). I admit, this is my own bias, and it might not lead to the best box-office draw overall, but to me this group just is a better fit. If this was the team on the project from the start, I wonder if there would have been many complaints?

Also, a lot of the bad word seems to be from Hollywood insiders, and mostly due to the delayed opening. I'm not sure how much faith to put in this. If I remember, there were similar complaints about PoTC and Titanic. I don't know how to take the movie length cuts - I believe the LoTR films went through large cuts themselves.

This is not to say that the current version will be a success, or that the way this was handled by Disney was a good one. In any case, the fact that there was a change at all shows a problem on Disney's part. But, I'm not sure that the new director/cast/rating is really a bad move from the original.
 
A good/well done r-rated movie can make money, what is the top movie this year and one that is going up the charts of all time best sellers and is r-rated right now??? And things arent all equal, billy bob doesnt equate with Russell Crowe.
Or do you want a sanizted/dumb downed version that needs many re-writes to make any sense because initial pre-screenings received awful results???
Disney could have had the movie made by people with proven track records of quality/box office potential, but decided that was too expensive, so now they make a movie that will cost more but has less chances for success. I guess you dont want Oscar winners who sell tickets in your movies???
 

Originally posted by Bob O
Disney could have had the movie made by people with proven track records of quality/box office potential, but decided that was too expensive, so now they make a movie that will cost more but has less chances for success. I guess you dont want Oscar winners who sell tickets in your movies???
Oh come on Bob, where does Keyser's post say he doesn't want Oscar winners who sell tickets? He's not trying to twist your statements, why make rash assumptions that twist his?

From your posts, it doesn't appear that you've seen "The Alamo" yet, but I imagine you'll walk in expecting it to be lousy. In which case, it will be for you, because you're not going to allow it be a decent film. Although I'll bet if every critic on the map changed his tune, you'd all of a sudden jump on the bandwagon and say that you supported it all along. Me ... I always prefer to wait until I actually SEE a movie before I decide if I like it or not.

And, for the record, I agree with Keyser that Thornton and Quaid "fit" the Alamo better than Crowe and Penn. Penn is way too edgy, and Crowe ... well ... he's an Australian, isn't he? I think he's a fine actor, but having an Australian fighting at the Alamo just doesn't seem right somehow.

:earsboy:
 
Crowe is actually the one person from New Zealand that wasnt thanked by the Rings folks at the Oscars.
 
I think he's a fine actor, but having an Australian fighting at the Alamo just doesn't seem right somehow.

anyone see south park last night lolol.

Alamo is opening against too much competition for this time of year.
 
Originally posted by Bob O
A good/well done r-rated movie can make money, what is the top movie this year and one that is going up the charts of all time best sellers and is r-rated right now??? And things arent all equal, billy bob doesnt equate with Russell Crowe.

OK, WDSearcher already addressed this, but I'll still respond.

I didn't say an R-rated movie can't make money (obviously they do or they'd rarely be made), but wouldn't you agree that it's tougher to make money with an R-rating than with a lower rating? You eliminate part of the audience, for one. Also, I think "The Passion" has to be treated as an anomaly - I know that it has brought people to see an R-rated movie that would not normally go to one, due to the subject matter. As proud as many Texans are, I don't think the same would hold for "The Alamo" (and Texans make up a smaller part of the moviegoing public).


Or do you want a sanizted/dumb downed version that needs many re-writes to make any sense because initial pre-screenings received awful results???

I thought the writer was the same (maybe I am confused, here) -
wouldn't Howard have had the same script to start with? Are you saying that his direction would not have ended up needing rewrites, also? I honestly don't know what to think of rewrites/delays - as I said before, there have been some very successful movies that had similar track records (and I imagine even more unsuccessful movies). As far as sanitized/dumbed down, it has to be dumbed-down somewhat (you're telling a complex story in a 2-3 hour movie - this is true of basically every movie). I do want it sanitized to some extent - why is that a problem? You can make great movies (even about battles) without incredibly graphic violence, strong sexual content, foul language of whatever else was felt to be necessary for the story.


Disney could have had the movie made by people with proven track records of quality/box office potential, but decided that was too expensive, so now they make a movie that will cost more but has less chances for success.

Where do you get that the new version will cost more? Everything I have read, including the article you posted, stated it will cost less ($106M vs. $125M, and that's assuming Howard's version wouldn't have gone over budget).

I guess you dont want Oscar winners who sell tickets in your movies???

I don't know where you got this from? I like both Crowe and Penn as actors, and Howard as a director, I just don't think they're necessarily the best for this particular story (again, I admit I have a Texas bias here - I'm probably more interested in it being a "Texas" movie than most people). Jack Nicolson's won three Oscars, but I don't think he'd fit in this movie either! Also, note that Thornton has won an Oscar (for screenplay) and was nominated for best actor...

I'll admit, I don't know whether the new group stands more chance of success than the original group - the names alone (esp. with Howard/Crowe reuniting and Penn coming off his Oscar win) could have been enough to drive up the box office receipts. And, like I said before, Disney/Eisner handled it very badly. But, if you'd given me the choice in advance of an R-rated Howard/Crowe/Penn (and more expensive) production of the Alamo and a PG13-rated Hancock/Quaid/Thornton, I personally would take the second one, hands down.
 
My comment is this: Don't try to pass off a non-American actor off as a Texan. As much as I loved "Gone With the Wind," it's a shame that an American Woman was not chosen to play this part (they got a Brit to do the sequal too!)

I think it's movies like this that encourage people to find out more about the topic. I know nothing about the Alamo (except that people died there), and after seeing the movie, would probably be encourage to read more about it (ok, I am a history buff).

I rarely go to the movies anymore, between working two jobs. But when I do, I go to see something I am interested in. Ladykillers this weekend (hopefully), and the Alamo when it comes out. I'll pass "judgement" on this film then. :D
 
I havent seen the Alamo yet, but will do so and hope it is a great movie, i dont like to spend $8.50 for a bad movie, but the buzz going around does make one wonder how good it will be and how good it could have been.
I have no major problem with the movie being pg-13 rated, as long as to get that rating they didnt dumb down the movie or cut out violence that is need to make the movie correct and not a white-wash of what took place. And i would agree that pg 13 movies do make more money than r movies, but i wouldnt want to sacrifice realism to get to that rating.
If you are going to make realistic battle scenes that featured the deaths of people, then you have to show it, Private Ryan/BlackHawk down are two great movies that did show the death that occurs in battles in a realistic manner and the movies would have suffered if they cut down on the violence just to achieve a pg 13 rating. And while Gladiator isnt based on a real story. again if they had not shown the violence so one could get the feel for the period the movie woud have suffered greatly IMHO. As for re-writes, of course that does happen, but not to the extent that it has happened with this movie where wholecharacters were almost done away with the the movie time chopped so much, makes one look forward to a extended dvd version which may be much better.
To each his own, but i would much perfer a howard movie with Russell Crowe headlining and the r-rated aspect so we dont get a version that wont show the real depth of violence that took place. Billy Bobis a much better crude bad santa than a fighter at the Alamo, while Crowe has shown the ability to excel in these types of roles, and while i dont like penn's politics he has shown he can do a great acting job in almost any role you put him in as Mystic River/21 grams showed this summer and each are head and and shoulders above the new trio IMHO.
 
There were a lot of non-Americans at the Alamo. There were people from Great Britain, Ireland, Mexico and even a German if my memory is right. Of course, Texas was kind of a free-for-all in those days so practically anyone could enter and people from just about everywhere did.

That's not to say that an Australian should play a man from Tennessee but if Russell Crowe could do the accent, I would have had no problem with him playing Davy Crockett. Crockett is always looked upon as a person a bit bigger than life and Russell Crowe excels at these characters. I can't see Billy Bob Thornton in that manner but I am certainly prepared to give him a chance.

I'm more concerned with the person playing William Travis. He is another giant character. Who is the fellow that is playing him?
 
Originally posted by Planogirl
I'm more concerned with the person playing William Travis. He is another giant character. Who is the fellow that is playing him?
Patrick Wilson is playing William Travis. He's a stage (Broadway and others) actor who recently received Golden Globe noms for his role in HBO's "Angels in America."

:earsboy:
 
This was to be the definative Alamo movie. Having done the majority of my master's research on early Texas History I'm going to see it and compare it to the other existing Alamo movies.

My favorite Alamo movie is the John Wayne version. Who can hate the Duke? Despite some flaws its not really all that far from historian's best guesses of the events.

13 Days of Glory is a more recent attempt at the Alamo. Its really not much more accurate than the Wayne movie but not nearly as fun.

The problem with all Alamo movies is that nobody really knows exactly what happened. The basic events are clear. A bunch of Texans (both Anglo and Mexican) tried to hold an old Spanish Mission from thousands of troops under Santa Anna. Santa Anna won and killed all the survivors except one woman.

**** There is a story on the movie as I type on my local TV station ****

The Alamo was an insignifcant military target. Santa Anna's decision to fight a battle there cost him alot of supplies and time when he could have neutralized the fort by leaving a small force in San Antonio to keep the defenders pinned down.

The decision to hold the Alamo almost cost Texas its independence. Houston's plan was to get Santa Anna to chase him all the way across the disputed border of Louisiana where a US Army waited to support Houston once the Mexicans entered the US. The same tactic was used a few years later to precipitate the Mexican American War.

The delay of the Mexican Army forced Houston to stop and wait for them to catch up. The outrage over the massacres in Goliad and at the Alamo meant Houston's men were going to fight. Houston forced the engagnement in a swamp where the European style formations were a liability for the Mexicans

Sorry for the history lesson. Go see the movie. It looks ok at least.
 
Howard thought the story that needed to be told would garner an R-rating. The argument against it is based on marketing.

I'd put my money on talented story-tellers over marketing orcs* any day.

Crowe did ok playing a non-Aussie/New Zealander in Gladiator. (Also with an R-rating)


Really though, how the public will react is up in the air, as usual. The film is going to have to overcome some negative buzz to succeed, but it does happen.


Disney is off to a slow start at the box office this year, however. Should that continue, I'm curious to see the reaction of those who pointed to the studio's success last year as reason for Eisner to be given more time.


*I'm stealing AV's term here...
 
Another Texan weighing in here...

I agree with others that the new cast fit the characters better in my mind. Also, John Lee Hancock may not be the top-tier director that Ron Howard is, but he has at least proven his story-telling ability with The Rookie (IMO). He has a passion for Texas and Texas history and is not selling out in making this film.

I believe some of the history and baggage of this project are distracting from what the end product could be. I will make a point of watching the Alamo and expect it to be the best Alamo movie yet. Lower expectations will affect the initial turnout, but if the movie is good, it will have legs and do OK in the end.

We'll see soon enough.
 
JoGloMorKat:
Actually there were a # of women and children (and a black man) who survived the Alamo. The most notable woman is probably the one you noted-Anna Dickenson.
She of course is the one who reported seeing Crockett's body (and his "peculiar" hat) as she and the other survivors were being led from the Chapel where they took refuge during the final assault.
I read that the new movie portrays Crockett surrendering (and being executed) after the battle, I wonder what effect it will have on those who believe he went down fighting???
In any case--I intend to see the movie and hope it does well.
 
As a "Born Again" Texan (as opposed to a "Born Texan") I've never understood the near religous battles over how Crockett died. The few survivors were all locked away in one of the store rooms during the battle and could not have seen anything. Until the release of the disputed de la Pena diary, there was no first hand account of the actual battle, just the know fact that all were dead and the officers' bodies gathered together for ID.

I was at a Texas State Historical Association meeting a few years back when the author of a book on the Alamo that used the newly discovered de la Pena diary was present. The venom in the voices of people talking about the heresy of even thinking Crockett had surrendered was scary.

I had not heard about that part of the movie. If they do show Crockett surrendering, it could play badly in Texas.
 
At least in San Antonio:D :D
Too bad that even the accounts given by the Mexicans themselves don't agree--about their own casualties, and even about the # of Alamo defenders they reported killed.
Have you read "'The Alamo Reader" yet?? Pretty recent and comprehensive. "Blood of Noble Men" is another of my favorites.
Anyway--film due out soon and we'll soon see how it does!!
 
If they do show Crockett surrendering, it could play badly in Texas.

If anyone wants to find out more about this, or anything else having to do with the movie, you might want to check out the message boards here . There are quite a few extras from the film that post there and others that were involved in the project. There are even a couple of published authors who have written books on the Alamo and the Texas Revolution. Be warned, there are spoilers. One thing nearly all the extras agree on... Thorton does a great job as Crockett.
 












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