Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[bicker]

Definitiely an emotional element to all these reactions. But, then again, it's telling that we we refer to them as the "monorail" resorts and not the "Magic Kingdom" resorts.

And also telling that Disney refers to them as "Magic Kingdom resorts" and not "monorail resorts". What it says is that some fans of the parks have a distorted view of what Disney offers. That's not uncommon.

I don't see any way at all it can go smoothly.

That's what they said about closing the 405 in LA this weekend, yet there were no problems last night. If LA can work through 'Carmageddon', then a much better-run Disney can successfully work through with 'monorailegddon'.

All companies want to make profit or else they wouldn't exist. However a customer oriented business shouldn't be obvious about it.

And they're not. It's curmudgeons who are working hard to make it obvious. As many folks have said already in this thread, for the vast majority of people, this change won't even register as a change.

 

[Wadecool]

First of all, there is no reason to think that there has been any significant negative reaction to this. The negative reaction that you see, that is shaping your perception of it being so large, is limited in scope - very limited in scope - and most likely well within the "insignificant" range. However, to see that, you need to measure things against Disney's objectives (long-term shareholder value) rather than against your own (how happy you personally feel inside).

No, not "all at once". Many of us realized it as early as the 1980s; and while the nature of everything online has changed since then, the changes didn't ever make the folks who regularly participate in WDW-related discussions any more significant; all that has happened is that the reasons for a determination of insignificance changed over time.


I doubt you're the only one, but I'll be happy to lead up the charge against your perspective. Fantasyland is many times more important than the monorail to start with, and the Fantasyland expansion is almost surely going to pay-off, for Disney and for its guests, more than spending a similar amount of money on the monorail.


Do you realize that you've outlined a self-fulfilling prophesy? Read the words your wrote... they basically say that no matter what, if anything is ever taken away, then eventually there will be nothing. There is no consideration within

what you've written for the fact that while things are taken away other things are added, nor for the difference between taking away things of different importances. By blurring the line between Fantasyland and monorails, as mom2rtk did, it is impossible to see the reality of the situation.

Then you're not paying attention. Regardless, add back in reality, that Disney is adding and subtracting at the same time, and you'll see that it is just like every other top-notch entertainment enterprise, in that regard.

Whatever are you talking about? While it is true that Michael Eisner led Disney with far more vision that fostered in fans a far greater feeling of the magic, not that much has changed. Bob Iger needs to be viewed as a bridge, from Eisner to the next visionary. He or she is coming. Iger is being a good steward in the meantime.

Many company boards of directors, corporate officers, and shareholders of large companies, including Disney, would argue that the purpose of a CEO is much more than just a steward or a bridge until the next great leader comes along. As the CEO, he or she should be a great leader and visionary in their own right, no just someone who holds the reigns waiting for someone else.

 

[Wadecool]

And also telling that Disney refers to them as "Magic Kingdom resorts" and not "monorail resorts". What it says is that some fans of the parks have a distorted view of what Disney offers. That's not uncommon.


That's what they said about closing the 405 in LA this weekend, yet there were no problems last night. If LA can work through 'Carmageddon', then a much better-run Disney can successfully work through with 'monorailegddon'.


And they're not. It's curmudgeons who are working hard to make it obvious. As many folks have said already in this thread, for the vast majority of people, this change won't even register as a
change.

It's interesting that you use the term "curmudgeons", as in "a bad tempered or surly person." It could certainly be argued that this type of person would make a habit of "arguing over petty or trivial matters." What is even more interesting is that the latter definition is connected to the term "bicker". Coincidence? I think not.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Actually it requires the purchase of the $100 photobook. Many would have greatly preferred the photopass CD, but that was not the case.

Nobody knows if the next offering of free dining will have the same stipulation. The latest free dining was actually the second offering of free dining during that late August through September timeframe. It is still possible they only added the book requirement to differentiate it from that first offering last year (that had to be booked by 12/20).

But I'm afraid I've lost track of how this relates to the monorail. Maybe the proceeds are being put toward purchase of a new monorail for Disney???

Oh, I have no idea either! But racefanof88 started throwing around numbers, and anyone who knows me knows I can't resist a challenge - and the differences in the original numbers just didn't 'look' right. Thank you for the correction about the photobook.

 

[Bell30012]

Let's face it... If the monorail were to be completely taken out of service most of us on this forum would still be going to WDW. Disney "owns" us. We'd gripe and complain but we'd still go.

 

[bicker]

Many company boards of directors, corporate officers, and shareholders of large companies, including Disney, would argue that the purpose of a CEO is much more than just a steward or a bridge until the next great leader comes along.

Myself among them: I wrote what I wrote as a moderate "condemnation" of Iger in contrast to Eisner. I'm sorry that wasn't clear. Having an "interim" kind-of leader is often a necessary evil, after having such a luminary as Eisner in charge.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The difference in our pricing is most likely due to the fact I used a 7 night model and you used 5. Either way, the cost is high and 4 of the 7 nights would be either EMHs or MNSSHP at MK and Epcot. Without the monorail taking me back to the TTC I would not pay the extra to go to the party nor would I stay in the park and spend money during EMH. On my December trip it is the same thing, EMHs and MVMCP 4 of the 7 nights we will be there.

The number of nights doesn't explain why you came up with disparate pricing for packages without dining vs packages with the dining plan included. It would make more sense that some of your prices were for standard rooms and some for preferred rooms, without you realizing that's what happened. It took me a while of toggling back and forth to compare apples to apples.

Using the trip we're (more or less) comparing - there wouldn't be any reason to use/need the monorail or TTC. even with a car available, bus from an All Star resort is the most efficient form of transportation to and from the Magic Kingdom.

 

[GadgetRick]

Disney says (can't quote a source here) but they call the normal parking closing hours 7PM (I agree it rarely happens that way) because it is truly a rare day that they close earlier than that...once every now and again they close earlier for a press event. I do agree its a bit misleading to think that MK regular closing time is 7 PM but that it is.

Liz

Regardless, if the all of non-hard ticket event nights close later than 7:00, then it's hard to say the regular closing time is 7:00. Besides, it was never that early in past years anyway (at least to my recollection). That's my point...

 

[doconeill]

Sounds a bit like Disney just has it documented somewhere that MK is officially open to 7pm - anything beyond that is a bonus, "so don't cry about it because it closes at 7pm every night of your stay..."

 

[GadgetRick]

Your sarcasm is showing. Could I ask why people keep forgetting, or refuse to consider, that ultimately Disney is in business to make money, i.e. benefit the company?

And I guess you've not seen the numerous times I've said just this?

And some people always see Disney doing things for profit. We just understand it and don't resent it.

Again, you miss the point. Just because someone complains about something doesn't mean they, "resent," it. If nobody complained, they'd really just do whatever they want all of the time. If you want to be a sheep and just wear those rose-colored glasses with Disney then go ahead. I, on the other hand, will tell them when I don't agree with something they've done. Will it matter? Who knows. However, I know nothing will be changed if nobody voices their opinions whether negative or not.

You're paying rack rate, not a premium. And it's not free dining, it's the dining plan free; and yes, there is a difference. It not semantics.

You say tomato I say tomahto. Technically, you'd be correct, however, not a whole lot of people were paying rack rates before the, "free dining," was implemented. So, while they're paying regular price in the most technical definition, an awful lot of people didn't pay rack rates. I don't know what the percentage was but I'm sure it was high. They couldn't give discounts away quickly enough in past years (before 9/11 as well).

If you have a store and you have a sign out front saying, "All items 50% off!" And you have this sign in front ALL of the time. This becomes your regular price whether or not you call it your regular price since everyone is paying 50% off all of the time. Of course, you can always go back to a non-discounted price but your regular customers aren't going to look at that as your regular price any longer.

No matter how you look at it, free dining is anything but free.

 

[GadgetRick]

Although I disagree with your some of your opinions, I'm glad you posted this as it seems like we at least agree on the thought process, just not the results.

And, honestly, that is all I'm saying. Some of us are actually thinking through our opinions (on both sides) and some are not. I am someone who will call BS when I believe it's BS. Am I right? I don't know as I'm not involved in the decisions which I've complained about. This goes for both sides of the argument and I can live with that. I've just asked certain people to understand why so many people feel the way they do, not asking them to agree with me (although that would be a side benefit).

I don't like the monorail closure and I don't even want to speculate as to the reason. However, since it personally doesn't affect our infrequent long trips too much even though we stay at BLT, I have a hard time jumping on the shame on Disney bandwagon. I understand why people are upset and would probably be more upset myself if I travelled only in the off-season (versus when the kids are out of school) and stayed at BLT. I just feel like there have been some on this thread (not you) who cannot find a single positive thing to say. With the stresses of everyday life, being able to enjoy spending time as a family in a place we all love seems to be what matters more to us than whether or not Disney changed how packages are delivered to the resort or whether or not "such and such" M&G or restaurant closed. Perhaps if we travelled there more often, these things would bother me more. Again, I'm glad you admitted that there have been many positives even if you believe the negative still outweighs them. As I've said before, at least we can agree to disagree.

Again, the only reason I--and many others--have jumped on the shame on Disney bandwagon (heck, I'm happy to drive it!) is because of what we've been perceiving as money grabs in so many other areas. Again, I understand how some people don't believe this is true but many of those people just find it incredible that anyone can see many of these things as anything but positive. That's what I just don't get. I can disagree with you but understand why you feel a certain way. Seems like a lot of people can't.

 

[GadgetRick]

You may not be aware, but the current 'dining plan free' promotion requires the purchase of PhotoPass. Even with that, the promotion is still a deal and a savings - especially if you have a combination of four actual and Disney adults in a Value room.

So, again, DDP is NOT free. I--like many--don't want a PhotoPass and am not interested in using it so it's an added expense to get the DDP.

 

[GadgetRick]

First: Keep in mind that you're not the only person supporting your perspective on this thread. If you have an objection to how others are supporting your point-of-view, then show that clear-headedness by telling those folks that their arguments are wrong, even though they agree with your conclusion.

Second: You're justifying your criticisms by casting baseless aspersions on Disney. If you stop casting baseless assertions, no one would be able to "bicker" with you. Note that I haven't posted replies to messages like this one:

Again, I have no idea what you're arguing about. If you'd care to discuss the finer points of a cutback in monorail service or the theory many of us have put forth which says Disney is taking a lot away from us while not giving us much, then please do chime in. However, your bickering about things which have nothing to do with the discussion is really just boring at this point to be quite honest.

 

[GadgetRick]

It's interesting that you use the term "curmudgeons", as in "a bad tempered or surly person." It could certainly be argued that this type of person would make a habit of "arguing over petty or trivial matters." What is even more interesting is that the latter definition is connected to the term "bicker". Coincidence? I think not.

LMAO!!!

 

[doconeill]

So, again, DDP is NOT free. I--like many--don't want a PhotoPass and am not interested in using it so it's an added expense to get the DDP.

I would argue that it is still free - it however is not always the best deal. Unfortunately we have often become complacent in the abundance of room discounts Disney has offered for many years now that we consider the discounted prices the norm.

They can still place restrictions on what is required to get it (package with tickets, photopass, whatever) but if those prices are documented and they add up to what you are paying and you still get dining on top of that, then it is "free dining".

But you HAVE to do the math in order to determine if it is truly the best deal for EACH circumstance. More people to a room, especially in the 10-17 range (so you don't pay any additional adults per room fees), can often work to free dining being the best deal.

Wait, what? This is the Monorail EMH thread? Really???

 

[GadgetRick]

I would argue that it is still free - it however is not always the best deal. Unfortunately we have often become complacent in the abundance of room discounts Disney has offered for many years now that we consider the discounted prices the norm.

They can still place restrictions on what is required to get it (package with tickets, photopass, whatever) but if those prices are documented and they add up to what you are paying and you still get dining on top of that, then it is "free dining".

But you HAVE to do the math in order to determine if it is truly the best deal for EACH circumstance. More people to a room, especially in the 10-17 range (so you don't pay any additional adults per room fees), can often work to free dining being the best deal.

Wait, what? This is the Monorail EMH thread? Really???

Ok, you are correct, technically, it's free. Sort of like when you go to the store and get a buy one get one free item. Yes, you're getting a free item but you are paying a premium to get that free item. Sometimes it makes sense (money-wise) and other times it doesn't.

What we're saying is, it's free in that there's not a line item you pay for it but you are paying for it in the price of the room/Photopass/whatever else you have to do to get it. And besides, so many people are unhappy with the food and the plan in general, it's seeming less and less free.

 

[doconeill]

And besides, so many people are unhappy with the food and the plan in general, it's seeming less and less free.

Yup, that's the fault of the plan in general which the free dining promotions just exacerbate. The restaurants only get so much in credited dollars per dining credit used - but are still responsible for their margins. So when the same dining credit can be used for a $15 pork chop or a $35 steak, something's gotta give on the steak...

I'm adrift on a river of side topics...

 

[bicker]

Again, I have no idea what you're arguing about.

I'm sorry you're having difficulty. It perhaps would be helpful to just take my comments as they're written, rather than specifically trying to fit them either in direct agreement with, or direct disagreement with, your perspective.

If you'd care to discuss the finer points of a cutback in monorail service or the theory many of us have put forth which says Disney is taking a lot away from us while not giving us much, then please do chime in.

That is precisely what I have been attempting to do, specifically, in this case, highlighting how the criticisms are way out of proportion with the reality of the impact of the changes.

 

[GadgetRick]

I'm sorry you're having difficulty. It perhaps would be helpful to just take my comments as they're written, rather than specifically trying to fit them either in direct agreement with, or direct disagreement with, your perspective.

That is precisely what I have been attempting to do, specifically, in this case, highlighting how the criticisms are way out of proportion with the reality of the impact of the changes.

Again, your attempts at sounding intelligent do not help your arguments whatever they may be. You like to pick apart how others say things. That does not highlight criticisms, that's just plain annoying.

 

[fan1080]

Capitalism and free enterprise.

Accept it or move on.

It doesn't matter what the real reason for the change is. Complaining about it will not likely make any difference, the change is probably here to stay.

It really is that simple.

My response is not intended to try and make me sound intelligent; I'm just a dumb canuck.