Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[book_junkie]

I said it on the other posting in the Podcast forum, but if this had happened last year, my Mom and I would have cancelled our trip to the Poly, and that had been a life long dream of hers. Not having the full monorail service during EMH and party nights would have been insane (even with it running getting back to the Poly was interesting), and we used a rental car when we weren't at Epcot or MK.

The cutbacks and downgrading of things, along with the lack of magic has been going on for a while, has even made my mom, the true Disney lover of the family, want to go elsewhere after next year.

We're doing WL this year because of a room discount- if not, we'd be in a moderate or value. Next year, especially if EMH disappear and other things continue, we'll either be offsite or gone entirely, and that is a HUGE step for my mom. She's been going to WDW yearly for almost 20 years.

 

[bicker]

Finally, don't discount hubris, even if the numbers don't work. Mickey has a history of jealousy, seeing people profiting in his backyard and making moves to capture that business.

Perhaps, but if it is a factor, it is a very small contributor, yet often the only thing critics consider a possibility.

And I don't remember discounts being so heavily promoted among the public as they are now. I don't remember it being necessary, since rack rates were far lower (they've increased way faster than the overall rate of inflation).

I don't know what to tell you - I remember the 1980s very differently. Heck, we could not even afford to think of visiting WDW before then.

Incremental cutbacks are a reality just about everywhere in life.

Its not just effecting EMH!!! Its every night......they will stop running 1hr after the parks close.....

That's truly not a big deal. It's very simple: Park closes, leave. Problem solved.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I knew this day would finally come...a tipping point, so to speak. The monorail resorts just lost a huge chunk of the convenience factor, and I don't think they offer enough to make up for it.

Goodbye monorail resorts, hello Swolphin, a breath of fresh air from Disney's increasing money grabs, cost cuts, and shenanigans.

Could I ask why? What's the difference between Disney's Epcot-area resorts an the Dolphin/Swan?

 

[Brian Noble]

On the dining question: it seems to me that the resort Signatures still do a halfway-decent job. As I understand it, the chefs at each Signature have significant discretion about sourcing, menu options, etc. And, in return, they are not constrained by DDP, because the reimbursement behind two credits is enough to cover it.

Everyone else has to race to the bottom for one DDP credit, because you either take one, or you take two---and very few theme park restaurants can swing it. Coral Reef tried, for a short while, and gave up, IIRC. I think Brown Derby continues to get away with it only because that park has too many restaurant tables chasing too few people, so why not let one be a little less full but with a better menu? CRT charges two because that's what people will pay. Ditto Le Cellier (though the new menu items aren't half bad.)

 

[bellemeeko1]

for those that think this just affects EMH re-read what has been posted:



This is what WDWMAGIC released:

Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours
Jul 09, 2011

Beginning on July 11 2011, the Epcot monorail service will stop operation 1 hour after regular park closing, and from August 1 2011, the Magic Kingdom monorail will stop operation 1 hour after regular park closing. This means that in both cases, the monorail will not be able to return guests back to their resorts after evening Extra Magic Hours. Guests will instead be transported by bus and boats where available. Morning Extra Magic Hour service has not been affected. All indications are that this is a permanent change.

this will also affect those with late night ADRs or those that like to hang around and be one of last ones out....no more hopping on the monorail to GF/POLY/CR later in the evenings.....

 

[Brian Noble]

Perhaps, but if it is a factor, it is a very small contributor, yet often the only thing critics consider a possibility.

Is there any other way to explain the earth moved at Flamingo Crossings? That was a dumb idea from the start, IMO, and got a lot farther than I thought it would. "Let's replicate 192, but own it instead!"

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

I don't know what to tell you - I remember the 1980s very differently. Heck, we could not even afford to think of visiting WDW before then.

Well I can say I don't remember anything from the 80's at all, so I guess you win.

I've really enjoyed this thread, it's distracted me from the issue that at first had me really upset. But I don't think I'll be spending my money at GF since I don't like the sound of this anyway.

Could I ask why? What's the difference between Disney's Epcot-area resorts an the Dolphin/Swan?

The difference is some Disney theming and about $200-300 a night. We could spend 2 nights at Swan or Dolphin for every 1 night at YC/BC/BW. We don't use magical express anyway, but we still get the Disney transport and EMH (until that goes away for all guests )

 

[asta]

I think question 1 is the entire question. And, no one but Disney knows the answer.

For this market segment, there is no unbeatable advantage to being offsite, and probably a bit of a cultural bias to *not* staying "at Disney" just because of the brand's image. I would not claim to be in the Group Two income level, but even among my colleagues and acquaintances, Disney is something you put up with, slumming it for your kids. Furthermore, for true Group Two members, a quick call to a car service solves most of the transportation problems, and you can add the car service to your Ritz bill and still be comfortably under what you'd be spending at the Grand.

I think Disney has given up on question 3---ceding land from RCID to let Four Seasons build is some evidence of that.

But, for question 4, there may be no limit. It is not an accident that there was a new VIP tour service added in the past few years that *includes* FOTL for any FP-enabled attraction, for example. Of course, those are not limited to onsite guests. But, it is certainly targeted at this demographic. The Night Kingdom park that was rumored about pre-crash is another example, as is the Animal Trek in AK.

Finally, don't discount hubris, even if the numbers don't work. Mickey has a history of jealousy, seeing people profiting in his backyard and making moves to capture that business. Discovery Cove, the Waldorf, etc. all have to be under his furry skin just a little bit.

Again a very good post. Particularly the second paragraph. It is sad but spending your vacation at WDW is just not something that people talk about. It almost a surprise to find someone who enjoys it as much as we have. The money we have spent at WDW and the GF makes this so strange. I know my husband would rather have spent this on a good beach vacation.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

this will also affect those with late night ADRs or those that like to hang around and be one of last ones out....no more hopping on the monorail to GF/POLY/CR later in the evenings.....

The walk between GF and Poly isn't that bad. But if you're at Contemporary, I guess that's it.

I've always loved how the monorail resorts feel so connected. If you're staying at one, getting to the shops/restaurants/bars of another is no problem. I guess Disney sees that as an issue.

 

[bytheblood]

We were initially strongly considering purchasing another contract in November - if this is factual, this will ensure that we wont. This just might push us to sell our DVC.

 

[Brian Noble]

Out of curiosity: how long did the Resort line run after, e.g., an 8PM close at MK, with no EMH or other after-hours activity?

I was under the impression that it was never much more than 90 minutes anyway. So, still not enough time for a late night dinner at another resort without cabbing home.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

............

 

[Planogirl]

Could I ask why? What's the difference between Disney's Epcot-area resorts an the Dolphin/Swan?

I'll say price. I just saw a decent deal for the Swan on one of the travel sites. These are nice hotels and when they are similarly priced to the moderate resorts, they look even nicer.

 

[asta]

I can also see this backfiring in a small way on those EMH or other late night events in the MK. If no monorail service causes longer lines for the available transportation, I can see people actually lingering longer in the park. While some people are in the mindset of hurry up and wait, other people would rather linger until they don't have to wait in a line to get on a boat or bus. This would be minor but still another problem to deal with.

 

[bicker]

Is there any other way to explain the earth moved at Flamingo Crossings? That was a dumb idea from the start, IMO, and got a lot farther than I thought it would.

But it didn't continue. Isn't that the point? Does it happen? Yes. A lot? No. Does it make sense for it to be the default explanation for anything people don't like? Surely not.

Again a very good post. Particularly the second paragraph.

Yes, and I didn't really want to gloss over that last part of the second paragraph: The idea that much of what folks complain about are things that Disney can rely on guests pretty much doing themselves anyway, using external offerings, makes it clear why Disney pulls away from offering such things themselves. There are even car services available to take you between resorts and theme parks, if you really want premium service.

I'll say price. I just saw a decent deal for the Swan on one of the travel sites. These are nice hotels and when they are similarly priced to the moderate resorts, they look even nicer.

However, that's pretty-much been the case all along. There has always been that "Swan and Dolphin factor" and this doesn't change things very much.

 

[Brian Noble]

Regarding loss of perks... what would it take for you to stay off-site?

I already find the Disney resorts to be poor values for what they offer. I stay onsite only when I can use one of my (non-Disney) timeshares to exchange into DVC. Otherwise, I'm happy to stay in a non-Disney resort that is arguably nicer for 1/2 the price (or, often, less).

There are even car services available to take you between resorts and theme parks, if you really want premium service.

Mike Hewell typically does exactly this for his VIP service. I don't think that offering monorail service between a monorail resort and an open park falls into the same category though, do you?

But it didn't continue. Isn't that the point?

No. Even spending money to move the earth was dumb. Had the crash not happened, I'm guessing it would have pressed forward. "We got lucky" is not the same as "we eventually made the right decision."

Does it make sense for it to be the default explanation for anything people don't like? Surely not.

I never offered it as such. Instead, I suggested that it can tip the balance for something that is otherwise close on the sharp-pencil basis.

 

[Bell30012]

This change would stop me from choosing to stay at GF or POLY but CR is close enough that I would simply walk across the street. Of course, if I was carrying a very tired 2-year-old, I'm not so sure.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That doesn't mean that we would not be sad about losing a service. Who knows, maybe WDW will deliver another benefit in its place. There was talk a couple of years back about letting some resort guests reserve FPs from their room. That would be worth having to ride a boat from the MK.

Interestingly, taking a boat from MK to the GF saves time; on the monorail it would be the fourth stop, isn't it the first stop on the boat route?

 

[kaytieeldr]

for those that think this just affects EMH re-read what has been posted:



This is what WDWMAGIC released:

Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours
Jul 09, 2011

Beginning on July 11 2011, the Epcot monorail service will stop operation 1 hour after regular park closing, and from August 1 2011, the Magic Kingdom monorail will stop operation 1 hour after regular park closing. This means that in both cases, the monorail will not be able to return guests back to their resorts after evening Extra Magic Hours. Guests will instead be transported by bus and boats where available. Morning Extra Magic Hour service has not been affected. All indications are that this is a permanent change.

this will also affect those with late night ADRs or those that like to hang around and be one of last ones out....no more hopping on the monorail to GF/POLY/CR later in the evenings.....

You know, that doesn't say anything about not returning guests to their cars... It looks like the Express Monorail may actually not be affected.

 

[Brian Noble]

You know, that doesn't say anything about not returning guests to their cars... It looks like the Express Monorail may actually not be affected.

That's not how I read it. If it were only one of them, I would think it would be worded as "The Resort Monorail" not "The Magic Kingdom Monorail".

I suppose time will tell though.