Money and Contentment

[eliza61]

I'd also recommend getting off this board if you aren't content with your financial situation - and certainly do so before the Black Friday talk starts. Get over to frugality boards, where they make fun of Black Friday. This is a budget board, but its a budget board on a website that caters to one of the most consumerist companies in the world. I suspect that most people who hang on this budget board are not single parents on one .8 income plus some side work - prior polls - for what they are worth - put our average household income as a group well over the national average. Around here it can seem like everyone else is getting to go to Disney World - and almost everyone else is getting to go eighteen times a year (I'm exaggerating a little - but then, I hang on the DVC board as well so my perception is skewed towards frequent visitors). And there is always someone who, for instance, will post to a thread on American Girl that their daughter had several hundred plus dollar dolls. It can make you wonder what you are doing wrong. If you start reading THOSE sorts of boards, we budget boarders (with the exception of a few people like barkley - and a few others who manage frugal and a love of Disney) spend like drunken sailors.

So true Crisi, where you ask can definitely make a difference.

My other site I hang out at is Bogleheads.org which is an investment/wealth building site.
People drop dollar amounts that make my eyes pop!! and they do it like it's no problem.

I mean 29 year olds who want to know how to spend 1.6 million on a house and still invest for retirement.

I love the site but some times I say "man if I had those issues I'd of retired years ago"

 

[havaneselover]

I disagree on the no fee sports or activities for the children. You are doing your kids a dis-service if you have the money and are not allowing them to grow as individuals.

Fee Activities like dance, art, and sports are a great way to learn to be social and learn about the world around you. I would never take that away from my children if I could help it.

I'm totally in agreement.

My kids swim year round. It's expensive ($2,000 for dues for my 11 year old plus registration fees, swim meets, travel to meets, etc.) I am VERY fortunate that last year they waived my fees due to financial need so I only paid the registration fees, fundraising obligation, meet entries, goggles, suits, jacket when my DD got her first A time, etc. It's still an enormous sacrifice (including the 60 hours of timing I did). But it's developed a confidence in my DD which has translated in very high achievement in school. And improved social skills and listening skills. She's probably not college scholarship material, but she gets a tremendous amount out of it.

My DS also swims--more to burn energy and learn to follow instructions. He wanted to play basketball this year. It costs $100. I complained to my BF about it because my budget is very tight and he suggested cutting back on activities. It caused quite a disagreement : )

Our public elementary school has gym once a week. Kids need enrichment opportunities which school doesn't provide. Sports / activities teach kids so much about life IMO.

 

[mom2AidanAndEli]

Am I reading correctly that you're only working 24 hours one week and 36 the next? So not even the equivalent of one full time job? If you're doing that and getting by, you're extremely lucky. Solution is if you need more money, you work more hours. Sorry to sound harsh, but that's the reality. I know many, many, many people who would love to be getting by on less than 40 hours a week!

 

[Nayan]

I think that's where the contentment issue comes in Barkley.
For your family that's fine but from my view that's a life time of "just existing".

But there's a huge message in Barkley's post. They were a two-income family, but due to a disability they are down to one. For those who live on one paycheck and live paycheck to paycheck, what happens if it goes to none? I know it sounds mean to say tell your kids no, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

 

[Bete]

It's all about priorities.

I'm not saying you fall into this category, but you may need to watch how you spend your money. You may not realize that you are really spending more than you need to. There is no reason to have the best phone, Internet speed or all the channels that a cable/satellite company has to offer. Skip places like Starbucks and make your own coffee. Bring a lunch to work rather than buying one. Consolidate trips so you save on gasoline. Cut the thermostat down whether it's for heat or cooling. Conserve on electricity. Everyone should be in the same room; so, you have one room with lights, not three. Stretch meals by using cheaper ingredients, not meat and making a casserole or soup. I could on, but you get the drift.

We do a lot of our own work at our home; we don't hire out. I'm a woman and I've tackled plumbing and electrical projects by myself and I'm not young or talented in that respect. Home Depot and other places have demo classes. There are plenty of how to's to give it a try. I have painted for years. My husband is 78 and we do all our landscaping for an acre of land.

We never buy unless it's on sale. If I buy on Internet I look for a discount or free shipping.

In your case I think you could do some bartering. Maybe, you could exchange caregiving for babysitting. This may allow you to work more hours. I agree with previous posters that you always make out the more you work. You may get pulled into a higher tax bracket, but you are still money ahead overall.

Learn to do activities with your children that are free like bicycle riding. Find out what the free days are at museums. Recently, we found out that our library offers free movies once a week. Play games at home.

You should look at all your bills and see what you can save by shopping around for the services. I have asked for loyalty credits from our satellite and Internet services. I have gotten $10 a month off from each for a year's time. That's $20/month for a year in my pocket, not theirs. You may be able to refinance at a savings.

You may want to consider selling your home and downsizing. Not sure what your situation is here, but it could make a difference.

You just need to really look at your own situation and see where you can cut corners.

 

[Colleen27]

OP, you said you just changed jobs... Does that mean you're at the lower end of the income scale at your new position and have room to work upwards in time? Or is this a more or less permanent mismatch between income and expenses? Are these hours something you've chosen to have more time with the kids but will increase as they get older? I find that when we're dealing with rough patches, financially, it helps to keep a "This too shall pass" mindset.

One thing that jumps out at me is that you mention dance. That's a very expensive activity, especially on a single income! I breathed a huge sigh of relief when my daughter decided it was too much of a time commitment and that she'd rather be playing rec sports with her friends. At 13 she is a year-round, four-sport athlete and all of that (league fees and gear) doesn't add up to what we spent on dance back when she was 7. Living on one income usually involves some trade-offs and dance might have to be one of those for the well-being of the whole family.

Beyond that I'm not sure what advice I can offer. We've been a single income family for 15+ years but living on a single income with two parents is a whole different animal. We don't have daycare bills, we have a second car now but have shared one at times when money was tight, and I do a lot of "time rather than money" substitutions since I'm home with the kids anyway. Some of them double as family time - my kids all help in the garden and in the kitchen at canning/freezing times, and my older DD enjoys helping with the meal planning/shopping/cooking. We do a lot of free activities in the day to day - library classes and events, local parks - and get one museum membership each year (rotating between science center, art museum, zoo) which we also use at reciprocal institutions when we travel. I'm becoming quite a DIYer because I hate paying a repairman. Maybe some of those things would work for you, maybe not. I grew up with a single mom and I know how time takes on a much higher value when you're the only one there doing it all.

 

[Colleen27]

I disagree on the no fee sports or activities for the children. You are doing your kids a dis-service if you have the money and are not allowing them to grow as individuals.

Fee Activities like dance, art, and sports are a great way to learn to be social and learn about the world around you. I would never take that away from my children if I could help it.

It is hard to lump all "fee activities" together that way. Yes, it is beneficial for kids to be active and involved and exploring different interests. But at the same time it doesn't hurt to draw certain lines based on time and/or money. Kids can have activities and learn those positive lessons without spending thousands of dollars on dance or travel sports.

 

[eliza61]

But there's a huge message in Barkley's post. They were a two-income family, but due to a disability they are down to one. For those who live on one paycheck and live paycheck to paycheck, what happens if it goes to none? I know it sounds mean to say tell your kids no, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

very true and I'm not arguing that. What I'm saying that in terms of "contentment" which is what the op is asking about, poverty or living check by check has very real long term ramifications.
Now Op, has already said that she's living pretty frugilely (sp).

so my guess she is already denying them a bunch of stuff. That's what she seems to be despairing about.

Telling them no day after day, year after year IMO, and my opinion only is not living. So in the op's situation she's got to find ways to bring in more income.

Now going down to zero income is extreme situations. Heck if both my dh and I lost our incomes we would have been in extreme circumstances, but as a rule we didn't make every financial decision by
"what happens if we have no jobs?. I can't imagine the stress that would have caused.

Sure she can walk out her door and get hit by a bus but is that the way we want to live? Every thought is the most extreme "what if"?

I find that attitude here with regards to retirement. Every suggestion that I see is always "what if you turn 90 and get a debilitating diseases"? lol. Really is that how every one lives?

As always I have to add that I'm the "weird" one on the dis, so don't go by me.

yes I most definitely have budgeted and told my kids no, now and again, did we want to raise them without ever buying them a ice cream cone, without ever taking them to the movies or letting them join a team sport? No we did not.

full disclosure: we've always been a two family income and now that my husband died young I'm firmly in the "enjoy my life' category. I've cut my 401K contributions in 1/2 and taken out a new mortgage in my late 50's. Things that most budget boarders would not do.

Just a different perspective that's all.

 

[crisi]

I disagree on the no fee sports or activities for the children. You are doing your kids a dis-service if you have the money and are not allowing them to grow as individuals.

Fee Activities like dance, art, and sports are a great way to learn to be social and learn about the world around you. I would never take that away from my children if I could help it.

We've spent most of our years with kids as a two high income couple. For the past year, we've been down to one high income. And now...we are two self employed people (my husband does have a client, I'm looking for a contract).

My son only did park and rec ball - no traveling or little league - it was both too expensive and too time consuming in a two career couple to be spending every night running to practice or games. And he did it for free - my husband coached. They took piano from a friend for a very reasonable amount of money. My daughters big thing has been Girl Scouts - camp hasn't been free, but Girl Scout camp is quite reasonable and now in high school she goes to camp as a Junior Counselor for free. She did a few years of expensive gymnastics - not team, no travel, no expensive leotards, but that was it.

We didn't do it just because of money - although for us, funding the kids college was a priority that outranked activities - I think they'll grow more as individuals with college educations - and they'll have less stress if they get those college educations without debt - than by doing expensive activities. We also did it because we believe kids are overscheduled - that they should have time with books and video games and puzzles and music. That spending time together as a family is more important than dance and when a family is busy, activities take away from that. That its important for kids to learn how to fill their own time, how to live with unstructured time. How to make friends when you don't have a coach setting up a team.

There are plenty of low cost and no cost sports and enrichment activities - plenty of ways to learn about the world without $300 in dance costumes. The library comes to mind.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

I disagree on the no fee sports or activities for the children. You are doing your kids a dis-service if you have the money and are not allowing them to grow as individuals.

Fee Activities like dance, art, and sports are a great way to learn to be social and learn about the world around you. I would never take that away from my children if I could help it.

I agree with you. That would be the last thing I'd take away from my children, especially if it's something they are already involved in. Having a 4th child is going to make a HUGE dent in our budget because of daycare. DH and I will sacrifice what we can first, we'll eliminate vacations for a few years as well, and forget any remodeling or upgrades to the house, new furniture, etc. But I won't be pulling DS15 out of travel baseball that he's played since 8!

 

[TravelMommy]

I think everyone at one time or another evaluates where they are financially and where they want to be. I also think that we all have different priorities, and when you kids are young, they are the priority. They will be going away to college soon enough and you will have all that time to build up your nest egg. Enjoy this time and it sounds like you are doing as best of a job as you can. Hang in there!

 

[crisi]

I agree with you. That would be the last thing I'd take away from my children, especially if it's something they are already involved in. Having a 4th child is going to make a HUGE dent in our budget because of daycare. DH and I will sacrifice what we can first, we'll eliminate vacations for a few years as well, and forget any remodeling or upgrades to the house, new furniture, etc. But I won't be pulling DS15 out of travel baseball that he's played since 8!

That was another reason we never started. Because we didn't ever want to be in a position where we had to pull our kids from expensive activities because it was that or a new roof.

But it sounds like you have plenty of money - we don't buy new furniture - my couch is 25 years old, our carpet really should have been replaced years ago, our basement remains unfinished - we couldn't cut those things because we've never had them. (We have had a nice car for my husband, vacations (my expense), a nice retirement, fully funded college for two at private schools if they want it and enough money in our savings account to be able to start a business and not have to worry about finding full time clients right away - but all that has been priorities and goals for us).

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

OP, you need to up your work hours to full time.

Why isn't the father(s) providing child support?

 

[crisi]

OP, you need to up your work hours to full time.

Why isn't the father(s) providing child support?

That seems like an intensely personal question. Its possible that these kids were conceived without the benefits of father(s) - i.e. sperm donation. Or they could be adopted. At the age she seems to be (she's been a nurse for 20 years), that seems far more likely to me than what you are implying. But, it isn't any of your business how someone's children are conceived

 

[Colleen27]

That seems like an intensely personal question. Its possible that these kids were conceived without the benefits of father(s) - i.e. sperm donation. Or they could be adopted. At the age she seems to be (she's been a nurse for 20 years), that seems far more likely to me than what you are implying. But, it isn't any of your business how someone's children are conceived

I agree. And really, in a conversation like this one it is entirely irrelevant - presumably the OP has enough sense to have pursued child support if it is an option. Maybe she is getting it and money is still tight. Maybe it isn't an option for whatever reason. Maybe there is an order that the father is not honoring. Whatever the case may be, rehashing the situation with strangers on a message board isn't likely to be of any help to the OP.

In fact, dwelling on child support is a well-trod path to discontent... Thinking about how much more you could do if the kids' father just paid what he was supposed to, or how nice it must be to have one's obligation to one's children limited by a fixed percentage that is deemed "affordable" only encourages bitterness. In my experience (as both the child of a deadbeat father and a mom with an ex who pays a pathetic amount of support sporadically) it is better to focus on the things you have the power to change, improve, and control.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

That was another reason we never started. Because we didn't ever want to be in a position where we had to pull our kids from expensive activities because it was that or a new roof.

But it sounds like you have plenty of money - we don't buy new furniture - my couch is 25 years old, our carpet really should have been replaced years ago, our basement remains unfinished - we couldn't cut those things because we've never had them. (We have had a nice car for my husband, vacations (my expense), a nice retirement, fully funded college for two at private schools if they want it and enough money in our savings account to be able to start a business and not have to worry about finding full time clients right away - but all that has been priorities and goals for us).

I believe we agree that it's all about your individual family's priorities and goals. But to me, private colleges for 4 years times 2 is upwards of about 500K in a college fund. We don't have anywhere close to that and don't regret giving them the life experiences they had instead. But us having plenty of money?

 

[crisi]

I believe we agree that it's all about your individual family's priorities and goals. But to me, private colleges for 4 years times 2 is upwards of about 500K in a college fund. We don't have anywhere close to that and don't regret giving them the life experiences they had instead. But us having plenty of money?

Yep, you are choosing traveling baseball. We chose two children and college funds. It was challenging to put enough away for two kids - but no new furniture, limiting ourselves to two children, and limiting activities helped make it possible. I think small private liberal arts colleges - for certain students - the problem being you won't know what type yours will grow up to be when they are four - is about the best external opportunity a parent can give their kids. For us, there isn't furniture to cut - that to me seems like a ludicrous luxury when we have college and retirement to fund.

 

[Dakota731]

Sounds like you are doing well and even better than most Americans. Having more money doesn't buy happiness or contentment. Your children are healthy and happy, trying to keep up with the Jones' (who are usually up to their eyeballs in debt) won't bring you more satisfaction with your life. After seeing a friend going through five surgeries with her sick child has made me realize that money can't buy good health.

 

[Nayan]

That was another reason we never started. Because we didn't ever want to be in a position where we had to pull our kids from expensive activities because it was that or a new roof.

This is how we were too. My son didn't get told no all the time, but for expensive activities I had to. We made many memories for either very cheap or free and he still talks about those and how much he enjoyed them .

 

[kymom99]

Am I reading correctly that you're only working 24 hours one week and 36 the next? So not even the equivalent of one full time job? If you're doing that and getting by, you're extremely lucky. Solution is if you need more money, you work more hours. Sorry to sound harsh, but that's the reality. I know many, many, many people who would love to be getting by on less than 40 hours a week!

Correct me if I am wrong but I have a sister who has been a hospital nurse for 30+ years. I believe if you do the 12 hour shifts there are shift differentials and you are considered full time with benefits by working these hours.

I am also in the camp of using any extra money for my child's activities. yes, it is expensive, some things more than others, but I know that I missed out on some opportunities in high school. My mother was a SAHM and didn't drive so high school activities weren't practical. Also, there weren't many opportunities outside of sports. I played lots of sports in grade school but wasn't skilled enough to make a high school team. There weren't any intermurals, nor was there Beta club, etc. I could have easily gone down the wrong path. I walked a fine line. My grades weren't as good as they could have been.

OP, I totally get what you are saying and I empathize. I feel like we barely make ends meet and we make lots of sacrifices, and then we have relatives asking to borrow waht little we have left. Recently we have begun sliding and our financial situation isn't as good as it once was. I am determined to fix it, but it is such a slow, daunting process.

Hang in there. Things change and doors open.