MM+ never materialized?

[LOL!]

How did *I* "miss" the opportunity that was not present? *Disney* is the one who sets the date I was allowed to make reservations, not me. I was online, exactly at midnight, at 60 days. Precisely the *moment* I was allowed to look for FP+ according to Disney. There were *none* to be had for Anna and Elsa for my entire trip. I did all the tips and tricks listed here. I looked for the latest days in my trip first. I tried to do overlapping windows, booking 1 person at a time. There was *nothing*. How does that come down to me "just missing it"?

You didn't get enough votes?

 

[jtowntoflorida]

It seemed like the potential was there.

I was an early fan of MM+ based on the description in the patents. I LOVE the idea. The execution is what falls short. And your subsequent description of your recent DL experience really highlights ultimately the issue at Disney World--lack of ride capacity. The fact is that I think pretty much everyone would love (or at least not hate) FP+ if it really worked the way it was described, which would take either (1) more rides; or (2) lower crowds. We all know that Disney isn't in the "lower crowds" business, so, IMO, they've failed their guests by not increasing the ride capacity in Florida. Most of their new rides are really replacements, which does nothing to help with capacity issues.

And many times I have read on these boards that people do not choose to stay off site because of the money. In fact, it's been considered to be quite a insult to suggest so. It's always been a pay to play system.

And what about when you pay but can't play because you're already shut out? Then what? You're just supposed to grin and bear it because it's your fault for dropping thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation that isn't long enough to get FP+s for the prime attractions?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Every single person who logged on at midnight 60 days out who didn't get a FP for A&E had the same opportunity? If they logged on at their earliest possible time and got shut out, doesn't that suggest that someone else had a greater opportunity? Or that the opportunity for the person who tried and failed was not there to begin with? In this example, there is no "waiting until there is no availability" and no blame to cast upon the person who failed. The system's design failed them. Not their lack of diligence and vigilance.

It means someone had a faster computer and got there a millisecond ahead of you. Such is life. And it is such that Disney is not the only entity where this is experienced. But it is supposed to be so magical that Disney is the only entity where marketing is blamed when not everyone gets a trophy.

I did not get my Southwest summer sale tickets. I don't blame Southwest for that. I didn't get on to their website quickly enough. But it wasn't some grand secret that the sale was occurring nor was their any assumption made that everyone would get a ticket. Capacity prevents that.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was an early fan of MM+ based on the description in the patents. I LOVE the idea. The execution is what falls short. And your subsequent description of your recent DL experience really highlights ultimately the issue at Disney World--lack of ride capacity. The fact is that I think pretty much everyone would love (or at least not hate) FP+ if it really worked the way it was described, which would take either (1) more rides; or (2) lower crowds. We all know that Disney isn't in the "lower crowds" business, so, IMO, they've failed their guests by not increasing the ride capacity in Florida. Most of their new rides are really replacements, which does nothing to help with capacity issues.



And what about when you pay but can't play because you're already shut out? Then what? You're just supposed to grin and bear it because it's your fault for dropping thousands of dollars on a Disney vacation that isn't long enough to get FP+s for the prime attractions?

Shut out of one meet and greet does not mean shut out of the entire theme park. A & E is pretty much the only attraction this phenomenon occurs on.

 

[Angel Ariel]

How did Disney prevent you from booking a longer trip?

How did they say you could not get an extra booking advantage because they won't let you book that extra day. In that regard, you are the 61st person in line.

How is anyone supposed to know when they book their trip, which is in many cases *long* before they can make FP+ reservations, that they will need a longer trip?

For my personal experience, I booked my trip in March. I couldn't book FP+ reservations until September. I'm supposed to be clairvoyant and know in March, when I booked my room at the Yacht Club, that come September - over the course of a 5 day trip - I wasn't going to be able to get any A&E FP+?

 

[JimmyV]

You have the same opportunity to be "first".

No more so than you have of winning a lottery. 100,000 people all log on to Ticketmaster to buy tickets for a popular concert that sells out in 5 minutes. The all are hitting "refresh" in the minutes before the sale "goes live". One of those people is going to be "first" in the queue and get front row seats. Many other people are going to "get in line" for tickets behind the person who is first. And the majority of people are going to get shut out of buying tickets at all simply because the electronic system placed them further back in line. So far back in fact, that they get nothing. Booking FPs at midnight isn't any different. Didn't you ever call the old land line for PS at Cinderella's Table only to have your call picked up at 7:05 to find out that the restaurant was already fully booked for the day? You were dialing at 6:59 just like everybody else. But you got shut out. In all of these examples, you have absolutely no control over whether or not you are "first". The system assigns you a number that you cannot control. So in this respect, a lottery is actually more fair.

 

[itchin2go]

And as stated, this is really no different than how legacy was. The start line just got moved and the qualifications adjusted. But the opportunity remains the opportunity.

Honestly, I have to agree with this. But some have been arguing for ages that legacy WASN'T fair because it favored those who got up early. That argument just flabbergasted me.

As long as the rules are stated and uniformly applied and most, if not all variables are ABLE TO BE controlled by each guest, then I 100% get the argument that this is fair.

The thing is, even among fair systems, some things seem more "fair" than others. The variable of getting up early just seems to be more of a fair criteria to me than affording 7 more days of vacation as a Disney World resort guest. I guess when you can only even out the fairness by throwing more money at something, it just doesn't sit *as* right with me.

Don't get me wrong. I understand why Disney wants to favor the people who throw more money at them. As someone with finite resources, I just don't like it.

 

[bcrook]

I don't think there is confusion. There is perceived unfairness. But that is self inflicted.

My original post was analyzing what was projected by Disney brass in 2012 to what actually happened 2.5 years later. I don't understand how that discussion to lead to perceived unfairness.

They either instituted what they said they were going to do or they didn't. It looks to me that things fell flat. That is disappointing to me. I grew thinking Disney could do anything they wanted, the sky was the limit.

The FP+ Component is definitely not a home run. There are lots of problems with it, and the rest of the components weren't nearly as innovative as they predicted.

 

[JimmyV]

It means someone had a faster computer and got there a millisecond ahead of you.

A matter over which you have no control. But you seem to think that this is indeed a controllable variable. It simply isn't.

 

[Kobey]

I wonder how long it would be? I saw no differences in the website, app, or magic band usage from my stay in October 2013 to July 2015. No progress in 18 months doesn't bode well for future progress. I think they have moved on...

That could be. I'm being optimistic and thinking that they've been working on perfecting the existing technology before they start implementing new stuff.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honestly, I have to agree with this. But some have been arguing for ages that legacy WASN'T fair because it favored those who got up early. That argument just flabbergasted me.

As long as the rules are stated and uniformly applied and most, if not all variables are ABLE TO BE controlled by each guest, then I 100% get the argument that this is fair.

The thing is, even among fair systems, some things seem more "fair" than others. The variable of getting up early just seems to be more of a fair criteria to me than affording 7 more days of vacation as a Disney World resort guest. I guess when you can only even out the fairness by throwing more money at something, it just doesn't sit *as* right with me.

Don't get me wrong. I understand why Disney wants to favor the people who throw more money at them. As someone with finite resources, I just don't like it.

Disclosure-- I may have done that originally. But have come to the notion and am in agreement that everyone starts out with the same
Opportunity.

I also don't care for the +10 on dining and subsequently FP+ and won't plan a trip like that just for the +10. But I fully acknowledge this is a self inflicted decision on my part and may limit what I can get causing me to miss out on opportunities.

You didn't get enough votes?

Enough nights to improve her odds...

 

[LOL!]

My original post was analyzing what was projected by Disney brass in 2012 to what actually happened 2.5 years later. I don't understand how that discussion to lead to perceived unfairness.

They either instituted what they said they were going to do or they didn't. It looks to me that things fell flat. That is disappointing to me. I grew thinking Disney could do anything they wanted, the sky was the limit.

The FP+ Component is definitely not a home run. There are lots of problems with it, and the rest of the components weren't near as innovative as they predicted.

Agreed. I apologize for offering a reference to every child having the opportunity to be president in response to the debate as to what constitutes "opportunity". My comment nor the back and forth about "fairness" and "opportunity" are not germane to the topic of this thread.

I went back and looked at some of the references you offered in regards to the capabilities and ideas outlined when MyMagic+ was announced. It truly is disappointing that this many years later none of those things have happened.

 

[DoingDisney]

I didn't claim a lottery was not "equal opportunity with differing results".

You have taken a situation where you have no control and trying to say it is the same as one you do. One is first come first serve and one is not.

You have the same opportunity to be "first". (Not literally if course before this becomes an exercise in being literal.)

First come first serve is better than treating a piece of commerce as a prize to be won.

And as stated, this is really no different than how legacy was. The start line just got moved and the qualifications adjusted. But the opportunity remains the opportunity.

Except it is far different than legacy.

Legacy - each day a new pool of FPs opened up, all available. First come first served, show up at park opening and every single FP was still available.

FP - each day at 60 days out a new pool of FPs opens up, all available, first come first served, with restrictions on who is able to have access and when.

Onsite 60 days +10, off site 30 days, these two groups of people used to have the same access point, park openning.
That Plus 10 is key, now if I arrive for Monday - Friday trip, and you arrive for a sun-friday trip, you had the opportunity to book FPs for Monday - Friday before me, you had a greater opportunity. In the past we both had the same ... park openning.

There is no logical, rational way you can say there is still "equal opportunity" for FPs, esp compared to the old system, you can continue to insist its true, but you might as well be arguing the earth is flat (and some people still do that too).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A matter over which you have no control. But you seem to think that this is indeed a controllable variable. It simply isn't.

So some degree it is and to some degree it is not. But what equipment you have and what modem you have and what internet service you and how fast you can click a mouse have nothing to do with Disney. They cannot do anything to improve that for you.

 

[DoingDisney]

It's really no different than a lot of other perks. If you're a college student and a concert is being held on campus, many times tickets go on sale to students a couple of days before the general public. If you stay onsite at Disney, they give you some perks for giving more money to them. I don't understand why there's even any confusion over this.

And would you say the college students and the general public had the same "opportunity" to book tickets ? No, the college students have a greater opportunity, all the tickets can be sold before anyone in the general public gets a chance to buy them. And thats ok, thats a perk, but its not "equal opportunity", and that is the discussion we are having.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Bcrook, I'm sorry your thread is getting derailed. Speaking for myself only I was never speaking to fairness. I was specifically *not* passing a value judgment and stating so. I'm honestly just a bit floored that it can't be recognized that everyone doesn't actually get the exact same opportunity, not even all resort guests do. It isn't a criticism, it isn't "omg, ti's so awful because of this"..heck I wasn't even comparing it to legacy at all. It is what it is. I accept it. I just don't get trying to say that it is absolutely equal and if the opportunity was gone then it's absolutely the user's issue somehow. Not that I can't see where it could be user issue, I can...just after my personal experience, I don't think it always is.

Anyway, again, I am sorry about your thread getting derailed. Back on topic - I agree with you that it's sad that we haven't seen more of the interactivity aspects that were promoted along with FP+. I'd like to hope they are still on the horizon, but after reading a few articles where it seems that these features hit the cutting room floor, I'm not very optimistic.

 

[DoingDisney]

So some degree it is and to some degree it is not. But what equipment you have and what modem you have and what internet service you and how fast you can click a mouse have nothing to do with Disney. They cannot do anything to improve that for you.

Sure they can, have a system that doesn't advantage some over others due to variables that disney knows exists ... really a simple concept actually.

Thats like saying, well we should have to put ramps or elevators on buildings. Everyone has equal opportunity to walk up the stairs, and Disney doesn't know what disabilities you might have so they can't do anything to improve access for you. (Of course comparing a relatively trivial thing (using FPs) to something quite serious (disability and accessibility) but the underlying principle is the same) You keep arguing its equal opportunity. If I can't get my vacation approved until monday, I do NOT have the opportunity to start my vacation until monday, the person who starts on Sunday, or even the Previous Thursday, can pick over all the FPs before I eve get a chance to look at them. That is not and equal opportunity.

 

[bcrook]

Honestly, I have to agree with this. But some have been arguing for ages that legacy WASN'T fair because it favored those who got up early. That argument just flabbergasted me.

I think the FP+ system could have been created like the legacy system where you logged in on your device on that same day and grabbed your first Fastpass for the day for whatever time you wanted for whatever ride you wanted. Two hours later you could log in and grab your second one for whatever time. Two hours later your third...until they were gone. This way you wouldn't need tiers and it would have made the legacy enthusiasts happy and the late arrivers happy.

But greed got in the way...

1. Disney saw this as an opportunity to add demand and value to their Fastpasses. This way they could push people into the parks they wanted, fill up their hotel rooms, distribute rides as they needed, possibly give more to deluxe customers. All of those possibilities made the financial department giddy with excitement.

But it didn't work out as they planned. Their tiers and lack of rides have basically eliminated any value for Epcot or Dhs. And people just aren't fighting over the passes far in advance (other than those meet and greets). It's not a selling point for staying onsite and they are not controlling crowd behavior.

2. The locking in vacations that I quoted Rasulo saying.

This didn't work either.

I wonder if they could switch it to grab one at a time? It would make a lot of people happy.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

And as stated, this is really no different than how legacy was. The start line just got moved and the qualifications adjusted. But the opportunity remains the opportunity.

That's not true at all. They don't hold passes out for the 60 mark. If something is full when the window arrives then it's full and no one has an opportunity to reserve on their day 60. You arriving on Monday puts you at an advantage over someone arriving on Wednesday. Legacy put everyone on property at the same time in the same boat. This system has put everyone since day 2 in a negative spot.

 

[LOL!]

So does anyone have any real examples of the 'PLUS' in MyMagic?????