MK feels different.

[mom2rtk]

Is this really happening yet? I know there have been hints to it but I haven't seen any reports of anyone that has been able to do it and I haven't seen anything stating a date that it was going to start. Not that expect Disney to notify it's guest of such a change.

Nope. No additional word on when it will start.

 

[dbramer]

I don't get how FP+ is "equal and fair" but FP- wasn't.

If 2 people work for the same company, but employee A shows up as soon as the office opens and works all day while employee B shows up a few hours later is it equal and fair they get paid the same total amount?

If 2 students are in the same class but student A attends all classes and turns in homework while student B occasionally does is it equal and fair to give them the same grade?

If 2 people are planning to head to a store for Black Friday for a sale item but person A arrives early enough to be first in line while person B arrives in the afternoon is it fair and equal for an item to be held for person B?

Effort being rewarded is hardly unfair or unequal. I understand Disney can do whatever they want, but to call FP- unfair makes no sense to me. It was always very fair and equal, but that doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing.

Equal and fair are not the same thing. Please do not continue using the two as synonyms. All of your examples are equal. Fair is another thing entirely.

To make your arguments "fair", it would be about rewarding for effort. Equal is what you are describing and that is what Disney is aiming for.

 

[PlutoMars]

I don't get how FP+ is "equal and fair" but FP- wasn't.

If 2 people work for the same company, but employee A shows up as soon as the office opens and works all day while employee B shows up a few hours later is it equal and fair they get paid the same total amount?

If 2 students are in the same class but student A attends all classes and turns in homework while student B occasionally does is it equal and fair to give them the same grade?

If 2 people are planning to head to a store for Black Friday for a sale item but person A arrives early enough to be first in line while person B arrives in the afternoon is it fair and equal for an item to be held for person B?

Effort being rewarded is hardly unfair or unequal. I understand Disney can do whatever they want, but to call FP- unfair makes no sense to me. It was always very fair and equal, but that doesn't mean everyone gets the same thing.

Prior to the enforcement of the FP return window, FP- was not fair to everyone because everyone did not have the same information available once they arrived at Disney. While there were CMs that would tell people that they could use their FPs past their return window, Disney never advertised this on any of their signage, printed materials, or on the actual FP ticket itself.

One can argue that everyone had the same opportunity to do research and find out about this FP- return window "trick" but that should not have had to be done as Disney should not have withheld that information from their guests.

Now, I know that changed when they were preparing for the FP+ system and started enforcing return windows, but it is inaccurate to say that the FP- was always completely fair and everyone was on a level playing field.

 

[reneeryan99]

I think what morethananyonex was saying is that everyone had equal opportunity - which they did.

 

[morethananyonex]

Equal and fair are not the same thing. Please do not continue using the two as synonyms. All of your examples are equal. Fair is another thing entirely. To make your arguments "fair", it would be about rewarding for effort. Equal is what you are describing and that is what Disney is aiming for.

Disney is not aiming for equal. Disney is aiming for profit, but that's another argument entirely.

The current FP+ system is not equal, and I would argue it's less equal than in the past. Your opportunity to get better FP depends on where you stay and what kind of tickets you hold. They are not equally given out to all guests like in the past.

You want the most desirable FP? Under FP-, arrive at opening. Under FP+ hope a Disney resort fits your budget and vacation style, get on your computer at midnight 60 days out, try all the tricks and still possibly get shut out from a desirable FP (looking at you, Anna and Elsa). Equal isn't necessarily giving everyone the same quantity of FP, and I certainly don't think what I described is more equal than everyone with admission having the opportunity to grab the most desirable FP.

 

[Running_Bell]

ugh. I loathe the "now everything is equal" argument. Just because someone didn't take advantage of fastpass doesn't mean that those who did had an unfair advantage. Everyone had the same opportunity.

agree completely!!!

 

[morethananyonex]

Prior to the enforcement of the FP return window, FP- was not fair to everyone because everyone did not have the same information available once they arrived at Disney. While there were CMs that would tell people that they could use their FPs past their return window, Disney never advertised this on any of their signage, printed materials, or on the actual FP ticket itself. One can argue that everyone had the same opportunity to do research and find out about this FP- return window "trick" but that should not have had to be done as Disney should not have withheld that information from their guests. Now, I know that changed when they were preparing for the FP+ system and started enforcing return windows, but it is inaccurate to say that the FP- was always completely fair and everyone was on a level playing field.

Why? There was nothing preventing anybody from learning the tricks of FP except their own willingness to do so. FP+ has many of its own tricks that the unresearched guest does not know about.

By your logic FP+ is unfair because CMs aren't explaining what FP are most effective and when to use them. By your logic, it's unfair that a Philharmagic FP exists and CMs don't stop people from selecting it for a 9 AM slot. By your logic it's unfair Disney doesn't advertise the tricks to get MDE to work properly. They are withholding much more information about the use of FP+ from its guests. They are not open with how to make the most out of the system, which is exactly what using a FP- late was. What's the difference?

 

[EMode]

I don't understand why people can't grasp the concept that FP- was fair to everyone. It gave everyone and equal opportunity to get FPes. If some chose not to, or didn't know enough too that does not make the system "not fair".

And like the previous poster mentioned, this is not about fairness. Disney doesn't give a lick about making it fair for everyone. They care about making it easier for everyone to spend more money in the parks. That is the goal so please can we stop with the "its now fair for everyone" crap.

 

[twolittletinkerbells]

I would load up on FP at rope drop. As I went to ride SB I would grab a FP. It would usually offer a return of 15-20 min. After the 15-20 min window, grab another. So on and so forth, with obviously the return times getting longer, but I would easily gather 10+ in my wallet to use in the afternoon and evening. I would usually ending up giving away a few when I left. Of course they did not enforce the return time so it was easy.

 

[wcurry66]

The problem with the old FP system was it catered to a certain demographic

The people I see arguing it was "great and fair" are in the demographic
1) agile enough to visit the same location twice in short order, but then able to quickly get to some other "fill in" ride
2) people who seem to like the challenge - getting the most out of the system
3) people who like to be goal driven
4) people who don't mind splitting up their party in order to hit the maximum number of fp's

Other demographics -
* people with disabilities
* people with small children
* parents who are trying to give the impression that a magical day at WDW is just that - not something to rush through.. more Carpe diem, less the goal is all that matters

i did not find the old FP model useful

I am a compulsive planner.. i did my homework on the parks 4 years ago. But realized dragging my 5 year old in circles in order to get that one additional FP ride would not make for a great trip

Over the last few trips, I've seen too much craziness - people stressed, rushing, yelling at their kids. All at the happiest place on earth(?)

I'm excited to try the new model.. While at home, I can take the time and plan out the day - leaving ample time to saunter from place to place. For my, now 9 year old, it can seem carefree

Hopefully this pre-planned experience will help some people slow down and enjoy the park

 

[ibela]

"You don't like being evenly matched with everyone." The opportunity was ALWAYS there for everyone. The fact that people didn't take advantage of it was their choice.

I read reports of 5+hour line-ups last New Year's Eve. That is beyond ludicrous.

Some people still aren't taking advantage of FP+. One of my good friends left for WDW today. When she first booked I tried to give her some tips, she wasn't interested. OK. I sent her a link for the UCT tickets and the maps. Last night she asked me if she should get her tickets in advance or just get them at the park. The last time she went was as a little girl when Epcot was new. I told her to review the maps and rides on the plane so she's not superoverwhelmed. People like her probably won't even take advantage of the FP+ system, she's not the only one.

I haven't gone since last Aug when they were first piloting out the FP+ and we weren't included so still used FP-. We do have 2 trips coming up though, including one over NYE this year. In this particular case, I think I'll be appreciative of having the 3 FP+ so we can book our FP, sleep in, and arrive later in the day so the kids can stay up for NYE.

Some of us work in professions that only allow us to go during peak times. I sure would love to go in mid-September, but I can't.

Fortunately my kids don't start school until after Labor Day so the last week of Aug is my favorite time to go. It is insanely hot so we're constantly drinking ice water, but crowds are minimal. In MK, SM had a 15-25min standby wait, BTMRR was about 20min, etc.

 

[morethananyonex]

The problem with the old FP system was it catered to a certain demographic The people I see arguing it was "great and fair" are in the demographic 1) agile enough to visit the same location twice in short order, but then able to quickly get to some other "fill in" ride 2) people who seem to like the challenge - getting the most out of the system 3) people who like to be goal driven 4) people who don't mind splitting up their party in order to hit the maximum number of fp's Other demographics - * people with disabilities * people with small children * parents who are trying to give the impression that a magical day at WDW is just that - not something to rush through.. more Carpe diem, less the goal is all that matters i did not find the old FP model useful I am a compulsive planner.. i did my homework on the parks 4 years ago. But realized dragging my 5 year old in circles in order to get that one additional FP ride would not make for a great trip Over the last few trips, I've seen too much craziness - people stressed, rushing, yelling at their kids. All at the happiest place on earth(?) I'm excited to try the new model.. While at home, I can take the time and plan out the day - leaving ample time to saunter from place to place. For my, now 9 year old, it can seem carefree Hopefully this pre-planned experience will help some people slow down and enjoy the park

People with disabilities are not a factor in this discussion IMO, as if it is severe enough to effect the way they toured Disney had the GAC in place, now the DAS.

There are demographics that FP+ doesn't work for too, but like you said, the supporters of FP+ tend to not fit into that group. FP+ is less awesome for people who are not familiar with technology, people who don't own a smartphone with a data plan, people who do not like to plan or are aware they should be, (as of this moment) CMs, offsite guests (for certain hard to get FP), people who don't research how to best use FP+, and people who FP- worked great for.

No system is perfect, so I don't know why people keep clinging to the fairness argument. There are pros and cons to both systems that cause them to work better for certain groups.

And if you think FP+ is going to fix people yelling at their families in the parks you're in for a shock LOL.

 

[PlutoMars]

Why? There was nothing preventing anybody from learning the tricks of FP except their own willingness to do so. FP+ has many of its own tricks that the unresearched guest does not know about.

By your logic FP+ is unfair because CMs aren't explaining what FP are most effective and when to use them. By your logic, it's unfair that a Philharmagic FP exists and CMs don't stop people from selecting it for a 9 AM slot. By your logic it's unfair Disney doesn't advertise the tricks to get MDE to work properly. They are withholding much more information about the use of FP+ from its guests. They are not open with how to make the most out of the system, which is exactly what using a FP- late was. What's the difference?

What was preventing someone from learning the trick was the plain language on the Disney FP tickets, Signage, and printed materials. Why would a user of FP even begin to think that they could use the FP window past what is printed on the ticket? It was not fair because of Disney and the way they promoted the FP.


And please take note that I did not say that FP+ was fair. I was only commenting on the assertion that FP- was a completely fair system.

 

[morethananyonex]

What was preventing someone from learning the trick was the plain language on the Disney FP tickets, Signage, and printed materials. Why would a user of FP even begin to think that they could use the FP window past what is printed on the ticket? It was not fair because of Disney and the way they promoted the FP. And please take note that I did not say that FP+ was fair. I was only commenting on the assertion that FP- was a completely fair system.

That's fair then, I can definitely see how that can make a system seem unfair, but in the end IMO FP- had much less barriers and learning curves involved in its use, which to me makes it the more fair system.

FP+ really is no better in that area, as Disney is not advertising the way to maximize it either.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

The problem with the old FP system was it catered to a certain demographic

The people I see arguing it was "great and fair" are in the demographic
1) agile enough to visit the same location twice in short order, but then able to quickly get to some other "fill in" ride
2) people who seem to like the challenge - getting the most out of the system
3) people who like to be goal driven
4) people who don't mind splitting up their party in order to hit the maximum number of fp's

Other demographics -
* people with disabilities
* people with small children
* parents who are trying to give the impression that a magical day at WDW is just that - not something to rush through.. more Carpe diem, less the goal is all that matters

i did not find the old FP model useful

I am a compulsive planner.. i did my homework on the parks 4 years ago. But realized dragging my 5 year old in circles in order to get that one additional FP ride would not make for a great trip

Over the last few trips, I've seen too much craziness - people stressed, rushing, yelling at their kids. All at the happiest place on earth(?)

I'm excited to try the new model.. While at home, I can take the time and plan out the day - leaving ample time to saunter from place to place. For my, now 9 year old, it can seem carefree

Hopefully this pre-planned experience will help some people slow down and enjoy the park

I'm a planner, I preferred FP in its original form, and I have taken advantage of significantly more than 3 fast passes on a trip with a two-year-old, an eighty-year-old, and 5 other adults. We never split up or sprinted across the park (obviously). There were no meltdowns or stress.

 

[tim123]

My daughter and I went to MK on March 26 - off-site peeps. Bought our tickets in advance. Got to the gates before 8am for a 9am opening. It was a VERY chilly morning. We found an employee and booked our 3 Fastpasses each for mid-afternoon - the 3 Mountains.

Rope dropped a few minutes early - we went with the crowds to Space Mountain and were in the first car on. It was fabulous and exciting. Came out and went on Pooh, wanted to go on Peter Pan but the line up was already 25 mins long and we had more impt rides to do. Between 9-11, we did 5-6 rides and were happy with our pace. Then the crowds came. And with only 3 fastpasses to use, our day changed.

Major issues:
1. The crowds were ridiculous, if not dangerous. If we had to rush out of there, children would be trampled to death. There is a major capacity issue here. MK does NOT have the capacity to handle the amount of people it lets in. Trying to navigate crowds like that completely sucked the fun out of the day. And 120+ minutes for a ride? No, thanks.

2. FastPass+ sucks. In the past, we made the most of the fastpass system and it would keep us going all day long. It even made the crowds more bearable as long as we could still get on rides. 3 fastpasses vs the 10+ we would normally get clearly changed out day.

Overall, the day started well but we left at 5 pm on a sour note. In the past, we have stayed all day and for the fireworks. By 5 pm on this day, the crowds were disgusting and our 3 FastPasses had been used. Not willing to wait in ridiculous line-ups, there was nothing left to do. We left.

My daughter is 16. I honestly cannot imagine taking small kids to Magic Kingdom. With the frustrated parents and crying kids all around us, I think a lot of people felt the same way. And for the cost to go there, Disney is clearly just printing $$. I used to be able to overlook / ignore the commercialism because the place was so wonderful. That is no longer the case.

My daughter and I have had such a magic relationship with Disney and MK. It's faded. We spent THREE days at Universal and the magic is transferring.

Jeeez when I went we rode space mountain over and over til we were blue in the face. We rode Everest over and over and over. We did everything everywhere all day and night…and there was never a wait for anything more than a few minutes and it was all very very m.a.g.c.i..al
Am i missing something here? Oh yeah I WENT WHEN IT WASNT CROWDED Duh!

 

[redrosesix]

Why? There was nothing preventing anybody from learning the tricks of FP except their own willingness to do so. FP+ has many of its own tricks that the unresearched guest does not know about.

By your logic FP+ is unfair because CMs aren't explaining what FP are most effective and when to use them. By your logic, it's unfair that a Philharmagic FP exists and CMs don't stop people from selecting it for a 9 AM slot. By your logic it's unfair Disney doesn't advertise the tricks to get MDE to work properly. They are withholding much more information about the use of FP+ from its guests. They are not open with how to make the most out of the system, which is exactly what using a FP- late was. What's the difference?

I have to agree with this -- you do need to be a lot more savvy to use FP+ properly. If you showed up at a park knowing nothing about FP- it was pretty simple to use... you go to a ride and see that it has a long SB line -- and the FP machines right by it giving you the opportunity to just put in your ticket and get a slip that says when you can come back. If the SB was really short, you wouldn't need one at all.

But if you show up at a park without having chosen your FPs in advance now, you're probably out of luck for getting them for the best rides. And if you don't know the parks well, you won't know what to choose. Like who would assume that a ride based on Song of the South ie. Splash Mountain is one of the best rides in MK, and one of the most popular. I've never seen the movie but I love that ride.

And while the FP+ lovers are going to say that if you could get a FP- it wouldn't be until several hours later, the truth is the SB lines were a lot shorter than so it didn't matter as much. Which is why we never really needed many FPs. We got there at RD and that was usually enough -- it just isn't anymore. When we did use them, we usually went at our actual return time because we'd be in another area of the park, or another park, several hours later.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

And while the FP+ lovers are going to say that if you could get a FP- it wouldn't be until several hours later, the truth is the SB lines were a lot shorter than so it didn't matter as much. Which is why we never really needed many FPs. We got there at RD and that was usually enough -- it just isn't anymore. When we did use them, we usually went at our actual return time because we'd be in another area of the park, or another park, several hours later.

I don't understand why there was so much confusion over when you could get a new fastpass. It was a maximum of 2 hours, but if your return time was less than 2 hours from when you pulled it, it was as soon as your fast pass was eligible. But, even if you didn't know those rules, it was posted on the fast pass. I'm not sure how much more obvious they wanted Disney to make it regarding when you could pull a new pass.

 

[ssawka]

I don't get the whole "fairness" argument. As PPs have said Disney doesn't care about being fair, they care about making a profit. This is especially true in the on-site, off-site debate. Every business offers better incentives to customers that spend more, why should Disney be any different? Disney makes more money from people that stay on-site.

 

[tanyaandallie]

I would load up on FP at rope drop. As I went to ride SB I would grab a FP. It would usually offer a return of 15-20 min. After the 15-20 min window, grab another. So on and so forth, with obviously the return times getting longer, but I would easily gather 10+ in my wallet to use in the afternoon and evening. I would usually ending up giving away a few when I left. Of course they did not enforce the return time so it was easy.

This was prior to fp- return time enforcement, though. Once enforcement began you could not save them to use during the evening. Not saying you could not gather 10 of them if that was your goal but you could no longer gather during the day and save them to use at night.