Misbehaving Adult Child Advice

[indimom]

It is just hypocritical to want to point out a sons issues with the law when the op broke the law too.

Or is the intent supposed to be do as i say not as I do?

I agree it's all about INTENT.
He "broke a law" with bad intent - he wasn't feeding the poor here.
She "broke a law" with good intent - out of concern for her son/to find out what was going on and why a court of law was contacting him.

 

[luvmy3]

I agree it's all about INTENT.
He "broke a law" with bad intent - he wasn't feeding the poor here.
She "broke a law" with good intent - out of concern for her son/to find out what was going on and why a court of law was contacting him.

Well, she could have set his mail aside, confronted him with it and ask him about it when he got home.

 

[MichelleVW]

Considering you are guilty of a felony in opening mail not addressed to you and the shoplifting most likely a misdemeanor you are guilty of the more serious offense. So I would let it go.

Oh good lord. My oldest is 19 and in college, she gets mail to the house, we open it if she's not home. Not her personal mail, but if it's something else, then yes, we open it and make sure it's not something important lying around for weeks until she gets home.

 

[DawnCt1]

You don't do anything. You've done your job and taught him. You need to transition out of the lecture and punishment business. Now they have to *learn.* They mess up, they have to suffer the consequences.

Not letting him use your car makes a lot of sense. It isn't punishment - it's consequence for showing poor judgment.

I agree, particularly the bolded part.

 

[DawnCt1]

It strike's me as odd that you opened his mail, since he is a legal adult.

No one is a 'real' adult until they are living on their own, on their own dime and paying for their own toilet paper.

When I saw the "State of XXXXX against XXXXXXX", I opened it.

Also, to add, they already pay car insurance, cell phone bill, and kick in for school.

I don't blame you. I would have done the same.

I'd have opened the mail. But that's how I was raised. As long as I was under my parents roof, being supported by them, I was still not an adult. Period. Want to be an adult? Get a job and an apartment. Then your mail is your own.

I agree with your decision to limit the car usage. He's clearly shown that when he is socializing, he is gullable (sp?) and he really needs to think about the types of people he is choosing to "hang out" with. Have you met these friends?? Maybe you need to have a long talk about the types of people he wants in his life. And DON'T call it shoplifting. That's too kind. It's STEALING!!!! It's not STUPID, It's WRONG. Don't pull your punches. Don't try to stay on his good side, you need to get his conscience working. If this is the first time he has ever done things like this, make sure it's the last time.

I have family members who poo-pooed their kids first brush with the law, and it's been downhill ever since. (We're talking prison and the boy's still under 21. And it started out with "his friend's idea.")

ITA!

Considering you are guilty of a felony in opening mail not addressed to you and the shoplifting most likely a misdemeanor you are guilty of the more serious offense. So I would let it go.

Let that "legal adult" file a charge against me for opening the mail and that "legal adult" will soon become a "real adult" living on his own and on his own dime.

 

[DawnCt1]

Oh good lord. My oldest is 19 and in college, she gets mail to the house, we open it if she's not home. Not her personal mail, but if it's something else, then yes, we open it and make sure it's not something important lying around for weeks until she gets home.

Exactly. I have no interest in personal letters or invitations. Ifthey aren't going to be home for a long time and an invitation comes, I call and ask if they want me to open it. They usually do.

 

[JoyBell68]

This is where you are going to have to just let go and let him/her handle it. He/she may handle it wrong or right, and may handle it completely different than you would; but you still have to let them do it. Bow completely out of it.

I have bowed out of it to the extent that I will not attend court, pay fines, etc. He has handled it. My freak out here is over the stealing and the going along with a friend. Very childish behavior. I am actually just stunned over it. I just found out yesterday and I am still reeling and don't quite know how to treat him from this point forward. I'm so disappointed and cannot pretend that nothing happened.

I understand the "he is under our roof" argument and when ds lived here there were certain rules that had to be followed but one of them was NOT that I opened his mail. I might hold it, hand it to him and tell him to open it with me standing there; but I would have never opened it. Besides, the fact of the matter is neither event happened under you roof. I didn't get in his business, but expected him to handle it.

I understand your agreement and I would be perfectly willing to have that also; however, my son has preferred us to handle anything mail-wise of a business nature. We have slowly been turning that stuff over to him. I guess what I'm trying to say is he hasn't minded us opening his mail and still doesn't care. He's not even mad that we opened this thing that came yesterday. As another poster mentioned, there are medical issues involved and we get a ton of correspondence on it that he just prefers not to deal with. When the letter came, my gut reaction was that it was some sort of speeding/traffic ticket and I thought maybe he hid it and we needed to contact the auto insurance. Even though he pays, it is my policy and it would have been my ultimate responsibility to make sure it was reported.

If he is paying his own insurance, I am assuming he has his own car. I really don't think taking something away from an adult that belongs to him is really appropriate.

No, he contributes toward the insurance bill but drives one of the family cars.

I would want to check that he/she paid the store too, but remember he/she is 18 years old and no one actually has to tell you anything about what he/she did.

I have only asked that it was paid and told it was. According to the document, if it is not paid within a certain timeframe, the store takes civil action against you.

Has he already gone to court for the shoplifting? Was repaying the store what the courts told him to do? If he didn't pay there will worse consequences coming from the court system. I may give him that warning and then let him take it from there.

The store did not involve the police. The form is called a "Civil Demand Notice" for our state and issued by the store. No law enforcement is involved and, if not paid, becomes a civil matter.

 

[NHdisneylover]

When I saw the "State of XXXXX against XXXXXXX", I opened it.

Also, to add, they already pay car insurance, cell phone bill, and kick in for school.

In the future you may want to set the letter aside. Then when he arrives home you and your husband give it to him together and insist it be opened in your presence and that he show you the contents. As he still lives on your dime this is fair to do but does not break any laws (and he will have a few minutes to compose himself as he opens it which is also fair).

Otherwise, I think taking the car is very appropriate. I agree that is he is still mostly supported by you and living under your roof you get to make the rules. On the other hand, I think they need to be a bit more adult oriented. I think people who break laws cannot be trusted and losing use of the car is a good consequence.
I also think that if another situation occurs that three strikes and you are out would be a good policy. Share this with him now, YOU check the mail (getting a locking box if required) to make sure you see any future issues (by the method above) and then stick to your guns and make him pay his own way elsewhere if these 2 mistakes prove to be turning into a habit.

 

[MoniqueU]

I have a 17 year old that will soon be 18. I can see him getting busted with an open can of beer at some point if cops show up and raid a party. I don't know this for a fact but it may even be dismissed or expunged after a probation period is completed. Seriously how can the cops prove who it belonged to? It wasnt like there was a whole keg there. I may be out of touch with reality but I don't think it will stick to his records and I don't even think it was a fair charge to start with.

The stealing is a bit bizarre. I admit I took money my parents couldnt afford out of their atm account and also shoplhifted. I had to go to a counseling session for weeks about it. I hated going more then anything. That was the worst punishment I could of gotten. It was humiliating to show up there week after week. I never did it again.

Part of me wants the government to either lower the drinking age or raise the age of adulthood to 21 for everything buying cigarrettes, joining the military everything. There are so many mixed signals you get at that age and some of the laws are werid. I can't picture my son stealing something adn I do not believe in the whole peer pressure theng. I was honestly a rotten tean and no one made me hang out with people that werent for for me. I screwed up, it wasnt who was with me tht casued the problem.

Good luck whatever you decide but i don't think the car has much of a direct impact on the problems you are having.

All in all I think it will all blow just try and keep it in perspective. Good people make stupid coices all the time.

 

[JoyBell68]

I have a 17 year old that will soon be 18. I can see him getting busted with an open can of beer at some point if cops show up and raid a party. I don't know this for a fact but it may even be dismissed or expunged after a probation period is completed. Seriously how can the cops prove who it belonged to? It wasnt like there was a whole keg there. I may be out of touch with reality but I don't think it will stick to his records and I don't even think it was a fair charge to start with.

This citation stuff is pretty typical. It is rampant on college campuses. If you're at a party and there's alcohol there and you're there and underage, you get a citation. If you are under 21 you are not supposed to be at a party with alcohol. Period. Citations are written all the time where my son goes to school and I'm surprised he never got one. Plenty of kids do.

My best friend's daughter got one while in college (over 18) and she had to pay $100 by mail and she has to report it whenever she applies for a security clearance or if a job application requests such info. It is permanently on her record. At the location that my son got his, they are very, very strict and this cannot even be paid by mail. All nine of them have to appear in court. The fine may be as much as $500. He actually thinks he's going to go there and tell his story and get out of it because they weren't drinking. I told him that they don't care. They wanted to find evidence of underage drinking/possession and they did.

Part of me wants the government to either lower the drinking age or raise the age of adulthood to 21 for everything buying cigarrettes, joining the military everything. There are so many mixed signals you get at that age and some of the laws are werid.

I agree. Very mixed signals, very difficult age for this.

 

[luvsJack]

I have bowed out of it to the extent that I will not attend court, pay fines, etc. He has handled it. My freak out here is over the stealing and the going along with a friend. Very childish behavior. I am actually just stunned over it. I just found out yesterday and I am still reeling and don't quite know how to treat him from this point forward. I'm so disappointed and cannot pretend that nothing happened.

Oh, I completely understand. I would freak out to. It is childish behavior and not really sure why an 18 year old would do something like this, but for whatever reason it happened. I would certainly have a long talk with him about it. If he paid the store then he has done what was required. If he hasn't, let him face what comes next.

I understand your agreement and I would be perfectly willing to have that also; however, my son has preferred us to handle anything mail-wise of a business nature. We have slowly been turning that stuff over to him. I guess what I'm trying to say is he hasn't minded us opening his mail and still doesn't care. He's not even mad that we opened this thing that came yesterday. As another poster mentioned, there are medical issues involved and we get a ton of correspondence on it that he just prefers not to deal with. When the letter came, my gut reaction was that it was some sort of speeding/traffic ticket and I thought maybe he hid it and we needed to contact the auto insurance. Even though he pays, it is my policy and it would have been my ultimate responsibility to make sure it was reported.

Oh, well that makes it a bit different. He certainly cannot expect you to open and take care of somethings and ignore others.

No, he contributes toward the insurance bill but drives one of the family cars.

Another thing that makes my response different. Since it is your car, take it if you think you should. Was he using your car when either of these things happened? Is not allowing him the car going to punish you more than it will him?

I have only asked that it was paid and told it was. According to the document, if it is not paid within a certain timeframe, the store takes civil action against you.


The store did not involve the police. The form is called a "Civil Demand Notice" for our state and issued by the store. No law enforcement is involved and, if not paid, becomes a civil matter.

He was really lucky on the shoplifting thing. It could have been a LOT worse and he needs to realize that.

I would certainly make a point to tell him that if he wants to be treated like an adult he needs to act like one and adults do not shoplift for any reason but particularly not because "its cool".

I don't think either of these two offenses are enough to start threatening to make him move out or to take away any and all freedom. Just to be aware of what he's doing and to have some discussions about what you expect from him.

 

[dakcp2001]

Sorry you are going through this! What is the common denominator it the two situations? Your son. So his explanation of blaming everyone else is obvioulsy crap. He is the problem, not everyone else. He is making bad decisions, and needs to learn a lesson. He also needs to own up to his own bad behaviour. Your house, your rules, he lives there ground him.

Unless you'd like to be visiting him through bars, or supporting him forever (if he cant get a job due to criminal history) you need to put your foot down NOW.

These are the two citations you are aware of, and he only fessed up AFTER being caught, who knows how many more there are floating around.

Check his driving record (I think insurance can do that) I am not sure how else to check his criminal record, but you need to do it. He needs a lawyer, which HE NEEDS TO PAY FOR (not you). And this lawyer needs to be firm & scare him a little.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Well you're just all sunshine and light, aren't you?

Why not considering the level of contempt people have for their ofspring opening their mail"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dakcp2001]

BTW arent there some criminal offenses that make you ineligible for financial aid? I am not sure what they are, but there are some. This is not just a little thing, it could have years of consequences.

 

[brenalexacamp]

wow! some "tough love" words-- I have a 20yr old- my daughter found an empty beer can in his trunk- I went through the roof! She was a wreck- she just got pulled over for speeding-different story- she said if the cop ever looked through the car and found it SHE would be in so much trouble-would have been like it was hers- and she's right.

I told my son- your car or not- you can promise me no alcohol in the car-no one else takes it- you are responsible for the people in your car- their safety and you choose who gets in too- Never again or I take the key and you will have to ASK to use the car- we don't want to go there- he's been a great kid. The consequences are different for shoplifting when you are 20 then when you are 12. Stupid mistake- he's ok. I do open some of my son's mail- medical(kidney stones)- student loan- credit apps-anything else- I give to him- grades- he opens in front of me-other than that he never gets anything.

 

[Jennasis]

I am keenly aware of that. When posting on a message board, I'm not quite sure how to signify that this person is my offspring but is of adult age.

Should I have titled it "Misbehaving Adult Offspring?" Seems kind of awkward. Yes, I felt funny typing the word child but didn't have a better term at the time.

No matter what the age, this person will always be my child. It's words on a message board and they were the easiest ones to use.

Ah. Excuse my nit-picky mood this morning, but you could have just said "my son".

My gut reaction is still that you need to let him take his lumps. It may be the only way he learns. Even if it means jail time, a permanent record, taking a second job to pay for fines or his own car. Taking yours away is a great first step.

I also think opening his mail is out of line. Next time set his aside and make him open it in front of you. If he refuses, tell him to get a place of his own and move out.

A wake up call for him is in order. Good luck.

 

[DawnCt1]

BTW arent there some criminal offenses that make you ineligible for financial aid? I am not sure what they are, but there are some. This is not just a little thing, it could have years of consequences.

From the sounds of it, the kid lucked out on the shop lifting. No arrest, no court record, etc. The beer can in a house? I don't think that one would be denied financial aid or a job in the future. Not that I approve of underage drinking, I absolutely do not, but I don't think one can of beer or even a case of beer is a huge offense. My concern is that this 18 year old did not tell his parents and ask for guidance when it happened. Maybe that is all there is, and if that is all there is and he has learned his lesson and pays his 'debt' to the store (I would want proof of that btw) and he should have a record/receipt to keep on file for the future, and pays his debt to "society", I don't think he has yet "ruined" his life.

 

[dakcp2001]

From the sounds of it, the kid lucked out on the shop lifting. No arrest, no court record, etc. The beer can in a house? I don't think that one would be denied financial aid or a job in the future. Not that I approve of underage drinking, I absolutely do not, but I don't think one can of beer or even a case of beer is a huge offense. My concern is that this 18 year old did not tell his parents and ask for guidance when it happened. Maybe that is all there is, and if that is all there is and he has learned his lesson and pays his 'debt' to the store (I would want proof of that btw) and he should have a record/receipt to keep on file for the future, and pays his debt to "society", I don't think he has yet "ruined" his life.

I doubt it was just "one beer can" and how can you believe anything this kid says? If there were 9 teens cited, there was more than a beer can.

 

[DawnCt1]

I doubt it was just "one beer can" and how can you believe anything this kid says? If there were 9 teens cited, there was more than a beer can.

One beer can, one 6 pack, one 12 pack, one case; I don't think it is going to make a bit of difference. It is alcohol in the presence of minors. It won't ruin his life. He won't be doing "time". I would guess that it rises to the level of a traffic ticket and NOT a misdemeanor.

 

[IDoDis]

I am keenly aware of that. When posting on a message board, I'm not quite sure how to signify that this person is my offspring but is of adult age.

Should I have titled it "Misbehaving Adult Offspring?" Seems kind of awkward. Yes, I felt funny typing the word child but didn't have a better term at the time.

No matter what the age, this person will always be my child. It's words on a message board and they were the easiest ones to use.

You know your son. Is he a good kid or do you see him hanging out with "trouble" and heading in the wrong direction? Do you think he made some mistakes, has learned from them and can move on? I'm not diminishing what he did in any way, but I can see how these things could happen to many good kids -- if he's telling the truth. Was this the first time he's ever stolen? If so, he's most likely learned his lesson. However, he may have stolen many times and gotten away with it. As a parent, that would make me sad.

He's learned some important lessons recently and hopefully these lessons will give him a kick in the butt in the right direction. Looking on the bright side, it was better for him to get caught stealing something small and paying restitution vs not getting caught and continuing to shoplift bigger and better things. The beer bottle is not a big deal, although you may not have gotten the whole story there. I'd be more worried about his honesty than the bottle of beer. But like I said, you know your son.

We all make mistakes. I made some minor mistakes as a young adult and learned from them. If he's a good kid, he'll want to earn your trust back, which I think he should. Your decision about taking driving privileges away was the right thing to do.