Minimum points

[AstroBlasters]

I will be interested to see if they lower the amount required for membership magic.

 

[Disnid]

I can't shake the opinion the more complicated and confusing DVC makes all of this, the more they put new buyers off. Restrictions, no restrictions, grandfathering, minimum buy in, minimum for eligibility. If a flow chart is required to understand a timeshare something has gone awry.

I joined this site just to comment on this thread. I was looking at DVC before the whole pandemic and now that I’m looking again to say I’m put off is an understatement. How fast they raised the point requirements is incredible, and the thought of even being able to “buy direct” without getting the extras is borderline offensive. For someone who just has a family that wants to go to WDW and doesn’t mind the 14 resort limit it’s hard to believe anyone would buy direct instead of resale. I really want to buy direct but I just can’t and it feels like they are poking me in the eyes. The problem of course is if they don’t lock me into Disney then I’ll eventually go to other places instead and they will lose out on all that secondary income like ticket prices, food, merchandise, etc. Also my kids will never get that Disney nostalgia to keep them coming back. If that’s what they want and they have the demand I guess but they can’t say I didn’t try to save the relationship.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I joined this site just to comment on this thread. I was looking at DVC before the whole pandemic and now that I’m looking again to say I’m put off is an understatement. How fast they raised the point requirements is incredible, and the thought of even being able to “buy direct” without getting the extras is borderline offensive. For someone who just has a family that wants to go to WDW and doesn’t mind the 14 resort limit it’s hard to believe anyone would buy direct instead of resale. I really want to buy direct but I just can’t and it feels like they are poking me in the eyes. The problem of course is if they don’t lock me into Disney then I’ll eventually go to other places instead and they will lose out on all that secondary income like ticket prices, food, merchandise, etc. Also my kids will never get that Disney nostalgia to keep them coming back. If that’s what they want and they have the demand I guess but they can’t say I didn’t try to save the relationship.

I wouldn’t take it personally.

 

[Disnid]

I wouldn’t take it personally.

Haha, well I do guess the tone of my message was closer to that, but I’m not really that worked up. I’m just annoyed that’s all. I think the spirit of my message rings true though and I thought I’d provide my opinion as an outsider.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I completely understand where you are coming from.

My perspective is that yesterday there was a $32k minimum to buy direct as a new member and no APs. Today there is an $22k minimum and there will be APs (including a discounted one for direct DVCers at 150 points)

I’m going to celebrate the move in the right direction and not let perfect be the enemy of good.

 

[Sandisw]

So as the rules stand today. If I buy 100 VDH points I won’t be s full member, does that mean I can’t use my points at any other dvc property other then VDH?

Where you can use points and membership extras are two different things.

Points bought direct can be used at all resorts. Points bought resale can not..does not matter whether you are eligible for the extras.

For example, I am eligible for the extras but if I buy resale point’s tomorrow those points can’t be used at RIV or future resorts.

 

[Sandisw]

I will be interested to see if they lower the amount required for membership magic.

They won’t..there is no need to do that.this whole membership extras restriction for resale buyer began in 2016..it’s been 7 years and they have never lowered it..even though there have been times when they let new owners in with fewer points without them..just like now.

 

[Disnid]

That’s true it is a step in the right direction but it really does add to the confusion. Will they lower the minimum again? Will they lower the points for the extras? It’s almost an incentive to continue to do nothing just to see what happens?

I do think one thing not in their favor are the interest rates. It’s outside of their control but ouch!

 

[Sandisw]

I joined this site just to comment on this thread. I was looking at DVC before the whole pandemic and now that I’m looking again to say I’m put off is an understatement. How fast they raised the point requirements is incredible, and the thought of even being able to “buy direct” without getting the extras is borderline offensive. For someone who just has a family that wants to go to WDW and doesn’t mind the 14 resort limit it’s hard to believe anyone would buy direct instead of resale. I really want to buy direct but I just can’t and it feels like they are poking me in the eyes. The problem of course is if they don’t lock me into Disney then I’ll eventually go to other places instead and they will lose out on all that secondary income like ticket prices, food, merchandise, etc. Also my kids will never get that Disney nostalgia to keep them coming back. If that’s what they want and they have the demand I guess but they can’t say I didn’t try to save the relationship.

I get that some may be disappointed thst they didn’t lower the membership extras threshold but not sure why it’s offensive to anyone.

Prior to today, it was 150 and now it’s 100…perks aside, you can still have direct points that come with no restrictions that resale points do. It may not be worth the savings but it’s still a difference.

It’s like Costco..you buy regular membership and you get access to the store. You pay more to upgrade to the executive and they give you back 2% every year.

That’s all this is..allowing those who may not be able to do the 150 but can 100…in the door without the perks.

 

[Disnid]

I get that some may be disappointed thst they didn’t lower the membership extras threshold but not sure why it’s offensive to anyone.

Prior to today, it was 150 and now it’s 100…perks aside, you can still have direct points that come with no restrictions that resale points do. It may not be worth the savings but it’s still a difference.

It’s like Costco..you buy regular membership and you get access to the store. You pay more to upgrade to the executive and they give you back 2% every year.

That’s all this is..allowing those who may not be able to do the 150 but can 100…in the door without the perks.

But it looks like Costco hasn’t changed their fees since 2017 and they are very consumer focused and friendly.

So it’s not just about them having the tier it’s about how often and how fast they keep raising the price and tweaking what points mean what. It’s the opposite of consumer friendly to constantly tweak the values to maximize your profit. It’s one way to run a business but I’m not sure in the long run if it’s the best way. So maybe offensive is too strong but turned off would be valid still.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

They won’t..there is no need to do that.this whole membership extras restriction for resale buyer began in 2016..it’s been 7 years and they have never lowered it..even though there have been times when they let new owners in with fewer points without them..just like now.

They didn't start at 150 pts though. Technically they haven't ever lowered it but they did raise it to the mark it is now. It is one thing that would be almost impossible to backtrack on though. They could start different levels of benefits. Something like food/merchandise discounts if you own xx up to full benefits if you own xxx direct. Simply lowering it would not sit well with members who specifically purchased 150 points for the benefits.

 

[Royal Consort]

I get that some may be disappointed thst they didn’t lower the membership extras threshold but not sure why it’s offensive to anyone.

Prior to today, it was 150 and now it’s 100…perks aside, you can still have direct points that come with no restrictions that resale points do. It may not be worth the savings but it’s still a difference.

It’s like Costco..you buy regular membership and you get access to the store. You pay more to upgrade to the executive and they give you back 2% every year.

That’s all this is..allowing those who may not be able to do the 150 but can 100…in the door without the perks.

We on the Disboards forget how convoluted the entire DVC program has become. We've been here for the incremental changes so it's no big deal as we're constantly abreast of new developments and update our knowledge. If I was a new buyer I would be incredibly overwhelmed by all the different rules, conditions, updates, etc. The system is not overly consumer friendly and has become a Frankenstein patchwork. The decrease in min buy-in is great in isolation but it now just adds another layer of complexity to a program that has so many already! If I wasn't so passionate a Disney fan I think I would run.

TLDR: 100 min is good overall but adds more layers of complexity for a business that lacks a consistent vision.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I completely understand where you are coming from.

My perspective is that yesterday there was a $32k minimum to buy direct as a new member and no APs. Today there is an $22k minimum and there will be APs (including a discounted one for direct DVCers at 150 points)

I’m going to celebrate the move in the right direction and not let perfect be the enemy of good.

Don't forget too quickly. The AP could disappear again. Probably not but no benefits are guaranteed.

 

[Sandisw]

They didn't start at 150 pts though. Technically they haven't ever lowered it but they did raise it to the mark it is now. It is one thing that would be almost impossible to backtrack on though. They could start different levels of benefits. Something like food/merchandise discounts if you own xx up to full benefits if you own xxx direct. Simply lowering it would not sit well with members who specifically purchased 150 points for the benefits.

I know..my point was that even when they lowered the buy in amounts before, they did not lower the extras to match.

So, this is not new to have a buy in amount lower than what is needed for benefits. But I agree it will never go back down.

 

[Sandisw]

We on the Disboards forget how convoluted the entire DVC program has become. We've been here for the incremental changes so it's no big deal as we're constantly abreast of new developments and update our knowledge. If I was a new buyer I would be incredibly overwhelmed by all the different rules, conditions, updates, etc. The system is not overly consumer friendly and has become a Frankenstein patchwork. The decrease in min buy-in is great in isolation but it now just adds another layer of complexity to a program that has so many already! If I wasn't so passionate a Disney fan I think I would run.

TLDR: 100 min is good overall but adds more layers of complexity for a business that lacks a consistent vision.

But a new buyer isn’t really confronted with all those different aspects out there because they don’t apply.

You buy direct and you get access to all resorts at 100 points but upgrade to 150 and you are eligible for extras. That is pretty simple IMO

Resale locks you out of both those options.

 

[Sandisw]

But it looks like Costco hasn’t changed their fees since 2017 and they are very consumer focused and friendly.

So it’s not just about them having the tier it’s about how often and how fast they keep raising the price and tweaking what points mean what. It’s the opposite of consumer friendly to constantly tweak the values to maximize your profit. It’s one way to run a business but I’m not sure in the long run if it’s the best way. So maybe offensive is too strong but turned off would be valid still.

That’s a different argument then. My Costco analogy was that many business and programs offer a tiered approach and what they just did is actually lower the price by $11000 for someone to become a brand new direct DVC owner.. in exchange for not being eligible for extras.

For someone who doesn’t need or can’t use the Sorcerer AP, that’s a pretty big price change, especially if they wanted the ability to own or stay at RIV, and future resorts.

 

[softballpooh]

you can still have direct points that come with no restrictions that resale points do.

So I’ve been watching DVC trends carefully for years and the current resale market is very tempting because the pricing is steadily declining and ROFR is on hiatus.

If given a choice, I’d want direct over resale but the cost difference right now just doesn’t make financial sense (yes, I’m aware it’s a timeshare and not an investment). It’s still cash I’m spending.

So this new 100 point direct option is me choosing to only pay $10K more instead of $20K more for no restrictions on one current resort and one planned future resort? Am I processing this correctly?

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

So this new 100 point direct option is me choosing to only pay $10K more instead of $20K more for no restrictions on one current resort and one planned future resort? Am I processing this correctly?

Actually until they do announce restrictions on any resorts being built it's giving you access to book Riviera in addition to the 14 original resorts. That's it.

 

[Sandisw]

So I’ve been watching DVC trends carefully for years and the current resale market is very tempting because the pricing is steadily declining and ROFR is on hiatus.

If given a choice, I’d want direct over resale but the cost difference right now just doesn’t make financial sense (yes, I’m aware it’s a timeshare and not an investment). It’s still cash I’m spending.

So this new 100 point direct option is me choosing to only pay $10K more instead of $20K more for no restrictions on one current resort and one planned future resort? Am I processing this correctly?

Based on todays rules it’s all future resorts. The direct points bought today will continue to give you access.

Right now, it’s RIv and most likely VDH..there is also a chance it will include Poly tower.

If they stay on this course of restricting resale, it will most likely include the resorts that replace the 2042 resorts when they expire in less than 19 years.

Plus, it does allow you to start on a way to get to the 150 threshold for membership extras…so there can be some pluses

 

[softballpooh]

it’s all future resorts.

Right, but currently being discussed and in progress is only one-VDH. And I live on the East Coast so this one isn’t on my radar.

, it will most likely include the resorts that replace the 2042 resorts when they expire in less than 19 years.

But if I’m counting on just riding this out for the life of the contract until it expires, or I expire, whichever comes first, then this is a moot point.

Plus, it does allow you to start on a way to get to the 150 threshold for membership extras

But don’t I have that same option if I purchase resale? I start with resale and add on to get up to the 150 threshold- this option obviously takes less time.

I guess all of my processing is wrapping my head around why I would go this route when the resale benefits are nearly identical at the 100 point threshold. Now, I do think the conversation shifts when resale pricing stabilizes or increases closer to this direct pricing. Then choosing this “lesser than” direct option makes more sense. Right now though, not so much.