mini-rant

[TonyStark]

It's not a huge deal, but it will change how we tour the parks and affect how we plan our day. We've been going 2-3 times a year for the past 10 years, and learned that the enforcement policy on the use of FPs was that they were good starting at the window start time and that they didn't expire until the end of the day. Since Disney has now changed that enforcement policy, we'll just have to adapt.

To see how it would affect folks like us, you need to understand how we tour the park. We get there early and work our way around from land to land, riding rides using the standby line if the wait was less than 20 minutes, and getting a FP if we liked the ride so we could "ride it later in the day" (e.g., ride Buzz Lightyear at 9am, and get a FP with a 10am start window on it immediately after riding). We'd complete our first circuit of the park by 11-noonish and have an air-conditioned, sit-down lunch. After which we'd start our second circuit, taking advantage of the morning-collected FPs. So, if we got back to Buzz Lightyear after lunch at 1pm, we'd use the FP we got at 9am (which had a 10am window start time on it). We'd do the same at other rides we enjoyed earlier in the day for which we had collected FPs.

As we left the park in the later afternoon, we'd "pixie dust" incoming families of 4 with any unused FPs so they could enjoy a ride with minimal wait.

Under the new enforcement policy, we'd no longer be able to do our afternoon procedure -- FPs collected in the morning would have potentially expired.
So, instead of arriving at Buzz around 1pm and being able to use an non-expired FP with a 10am window start time we'd be stuck -- especially if the standby line is up to 60 minutes, and the FPs being issued at Buzz say 4pm (a common occurance at 1pm). So, what do you do at 1pm? The park is now severely overcrowded, all FPs say to return in 3 hours and standby lines are at 60 minutes for all popular attractions.

With the new enforcement policy you lose the flexibility inherent in our afternoon procedure -- you MUST visit FP rides in the order specified on their start to end windows. And we won't be able to "pixie dust" incoming families.
Again, no judgement here, just explaining the impact.

I'm hoping that by expiring the morning FPs there will be more FPs distributed later in the day so in my hypothetical example of returning to Buzz at 1pm there will be FPs available for 2pm (instead of 4 or 5pm), which makes the wait more bearable.

For those of us who had gotten used to the old enforcement policy and its inherent flexibility, this new enforcement policy is a change, and one that requires a bit more thought when deciding to acquire a FP. For some of us, that loss of flexibility and the need to plan (think) a bit more has a negative impact (however minor) on our ability to enjoy the park.

 

[dreamscometrue101]

I know that there are many people on both sides of the argument on the new enforcement on the FP return times but I honestly don't see why it is such a big problem.

On my first trip I wasn't aware that they didn't enforce the return time so if we went to get FP's and the return time didn't work for our schedule, because of a show we wanted to see or an ADR that we had, we just got in line and waited (if not too long), or we said we'd try it later. There was no issues at all that way.

On our second trip we did get FP's regardless of the return times but I found that to be just as inconvenient. I had to keep track of what I had FP's for, I ended up with FP's for several rides and not enough time to ride them. I gave several FP's to other guests as I was heading out of the park.

I'm curious to see how the new upgraded system works when it's rolled out.

 

[ftballfan7]

Too funny. You make an assertion of pure speculation but yet offer no substance. Now you prove my point that Disney designed the program with the intention of guest returning within the printed window and enforced that from the start.

Lets look back at what you said to begin with lest you claim I misquote you:



And shall we break this down a bit:



But it was Disney's policy to enforce the FP window because that is what they did when they first rolled it out.



But this is not what Disney did. They started the FP program with a defined set of rules. Guests are to return within the printed window on the ticket. And they enforced this rule. Disney did create restrictions with this program along with rules. The rule did exist and one can not say that it was just a mere "illusion" of a rule.



Ample evidence? You have not made your case here mainly because the FP enforcement is not a new event. Disney started out enforcing the FP window and then relaxed the enforcement and now is enforcing it once again.

Not gonna go back and requote all of my quotes, you know what you were referring to. What you keep missing here is that Disney changed it's policy to allow returns after the printed window. It is that simple. I am not arguing whether this is right or wrong, simply that it was the case. Nor, am I saying that I can't deal effectively with the latest change. I was merely responding to a condescending assertion by another that those who used FP after the printed window were doing so in violation of the current disney policy at the time. That is just not the case. It has been argued, and quite reasonably in my opinion that when disney changed the policy to allow this they left the end time to influence behavior. There has been evidence of this sited in many of the numerous threads on this topic. I am not going back to read them again for you, but feel free to do a search and read them yourself. Now they have changed their policy not to allow returns after the printed window and have also changed the wording on the actual fastpass correspondingly. It seems to me that the basis of your not being able to grasp this lies with your incorrect belief stated in your last sentence. This is in fact a new event. The possibility that it is a return to a policy that was in affect at a previous time does not negate the fact that it is a change of policy.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I understand the policy has changed (more than likely in anticipation of the x-pass rollout). I understand some are happy about it and some are not. I have accepted it and will adjust accordingly. What I do not accept is when some become condescending and call the character of others into question for not following policy when in fact they were.

 

[fallen_angel727]

here now...leaving tuesday and i don't feel its impacted our touring...at least not anymore than the rain lol


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[mad madam mim78]

I always came back during the hour window because I thought you had to. It should make the fast pass system sooo much smoother. Hooray!

 

[WillAustin]

I always came back during the hour window because I thought you had to. It should make the fast pass system sooo much smoother. Hooray!

Smoother than what? It worked before too.

 

[eastcarolinafan]

Many on here are acting like using the FP beyond the printed times was wrong. It wasn't, as evidenced by the fact that they let you do it. And it wasn't just for a little while that they did it. It was for years. WDW let this practice continue for years, to the point where many of us who went several times came to accept it as how it FP was structured. Nobody was trying to get anything over on anybody. We just did what WDW told us to do. Now we are supposed to just accept this enforcement as no big deal? Well, it IS a big deal. It's a huge inconvenience to those of us who use PH like a revolving door. In fact, with the onset of this enforcement policy, I have to think Hoppers is gonna take a huge hit. It was a benefit of staying onsite to hit rope drop at MK, grab a FP for Space Mountain, ride it, hit Buzz, cross to PoC and Small World and then jet over to HS and grab a FP for RR and then ride TT while waiting for the FP time on RR. Then, later that night cash in the FP for Space Space Mountain before starting the EMH schedule. It just seems quite a few on here are a bit uppity about using FP beyond the time printed on the ticket, but that really ties you to the park until the time comes to use the FP. OP, I feel you. I think the new policy stinks and will question whether I buy PH again. Don't stress about all the purists in here getting all cranked up, I promise you each and every one of them has used the FP beyond the time on the ticket.And that's all I have to say about that, for now.

 

[si-am]

Many on here are acting like using the FP beyond the printed times was wrong. It wasn't, as evidenced by the fact that they let you do it. And it wasn't just for a little while that they did it. It was for years. WDW let this practice continue for years, to the point where many of us who went several times came to accept it as how it FP was structured. Nobody was trying to get anything over on anybody. We just did what WDW told us to do. Now we are supposed to just accept this enforcement as no big deal? Well, it IS a big deal. It's a huge inconvenience to those of us who use PH like a revolving door. In fact, with the onset of this enforcement policy, I have to think Hoppers is gonna take a huge hit. It was a benefit of staying onsite to hit rope drop at MK, grab a FP for Space Mountain, ride it, hit Buzz, cross to PoC and Small World and then jet over to HS and grab a FP for RR and then ride TT while waiting for the FP time on RR. Then, later that night cash in the FP for Space Space Mountain before starting the EMH schedule. It just seems quite a few on here are a bit uppity about using FP beyond the time printed on the ticket, but that really ties you to the park until the time comes to use the FP. OP, I feel you. I think the new policy stinks and will question whether I buy PH again. Don't stress about all the purists in here getting all cranked up, I promise you each and every one of them has used the FP beyond the time on the ticket.And that's all I have to say about that, for now.

Nope. I have never.

Never felt the need to. I go to WDW every year. I have a rope drop strategy, and with utilizing just a few Fastpasses a day (within the window), I can ride everything I want to ride assuming all rides are operational (no unexpected breakdowns). And I don't wait in lines for more than 15 minutes. It's possible!

I don't have anything against anyone who used FPs beyond the window back when it was allowed. I just think all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about the new enforcement is overkill. A good time can still be had by all, even with the new FP "restrictions."

 

[Cafeen]

I have a very strong feeling that most of those who used FPs in the post window timeframe aren't THAT upset over the new enforcement policy. I know that most of us will eventually get over it, move on, and utilize them as the current policy exists (until it changes again...).

What most (I know I personally, and several others have already mentioned) get annoyed about is a sense of self-righteousness by select volunteer hall-monitor types who claim that they only follow the rules and those using FPs post window were not and deserve what they get. Those "rules" simply did not exist. They were made up. They weren't real. And to expect anyone to follow your own made up, non-existent rules is just asinine. Now, of course, not everyone who used FPs within the window fall into this category. Even those who knew about the real window and chose to still use the printed one. There are only a very few in this group, but they are frustrating as all get out. That's what I, and others, I'm sure, react to negatively.

As far as the current state of them? I'd love for Disney to actually put something in place so we wouldn't have to trek across the park just to CHECK the FP return times. Something that doesn't require me pulling up my phone while on isaw to check if I can pull a FP for Space, or if the return time is going to be in the middle of other plans. That IS a problem and Disney certainly should not rely on 3rd party applications and guests' personal cell phones to solve it for them.

(And yes, I will make it a point to annoy others by pulling out my brightly lit phone on a dark ride to check FP times across the park. It's what "you" asked for )

I'm not a CM, so I can't speak intelligently on the subject, but I believe that Disney only prints so many for a time period so that individuals can experience the attraction without the standby wait - it would make sense to me that enforcing the time would allow for a faster entrance to the attraction since there will not be those that were within the time-frame AND those that were not.

They do. There is a limit on each time frame that advances by about 5 minutes. Right now, I think the biggest problem with it is that it's not adjusting for the natural curves of ride attendance very well. With nothing to back this up other than my own logic, I'm assuming that it's a nearly flat "curve" right now, which is what's leading to larger backups during the busy times. Under the previous policy, this worked itself out by those deciding to not return within the window pushing their returns off until later, when the ride was less busy. Without that possibility, the nearly flat rate of FPs returning during busy stand-by times is having a larger than normal effect on the lines.

The same holds true for the later rides, in a sense. As time got on, most of the demand on the stand-by line waned, this is when those "hoarders" would start using their "late" FPs to return. This was perceived as increasing the lines, so now, with the supposed more flat curve of FP returns, these lines are perceived as shorter.

What they really need to do is take a look at the demand curves for the rides, and adjust FP distribution to mimic an inverse curve of this. So, for example, a ride may have a demand of 25% in the first 3 hours, 50% in the 2nd 3 hours, 100% in the 3rd, then back down to 50% in the 4th 3hrs. Utilizing a proper FP distribution here would put say, 300 FPs during that first set, then down to 150 for the 2nd group, then 0 for the 3rd (yes, no FPs between 1 and 4 for example), and then back up to 150 for the 4th. However, I'm sensing (and the anecdotal evidence on both sides of this, plus the concern about increased numbers of FPs being distributed) that this isn't the case and that the curve is much flatter than it should be (ex. 150 FPs per set offered all throughout the day).

Of course, this is all conjecture and supposition and ways to make me look smart.

But hey, at least I'm not just complaining, but also offering theoretical solutions!

(Note: I travel in mid-September and have used a total of about 10 FPs in the past 3 years (~26 days in the parks), and several of those were just to use them as the ride was walk-on... take that for what it is)

 

[si-am]

As far as the current state of them? I'd love for Disney to actually put something in place so we wouldn't have to trek across the park just to CHECK the FP return times. Something that doesn't require me pulling up my phone while on isaw to check if I can pull a FP for Space, or if the return time is going to be in the middle of other plans. That IS a problem and Disney certainly should not rely on 3rd party applications and guests' personal cell phones to solve it for them.

I think this is a great idea (especially for Soarin, when it's such a trek to get down to the attraction to check the FP time.)

I don't think it's necessary to check FP times while ON a dark ride, though. That can be done when you exit the attraction. I mean, if you're so worried about what you're riding next that you can't enjoy the ride you're on, why bother with any of it?

 

[eastcarolinafan]

I think this is a great idea (especially for Soarin, when it's such a trek to get down to the attraction to check the FP time.)

I don't think it's necessary to check FP times while ON a dark ride, though. That can be done when you exit the attraction. I mean, if you're so worried about what you're riding next that you can't enjoy the ride you're on, why bother with any of it?

Well, lately, WDW maintenance ain't what it used to be, for starters. A ride on Spaceship Earth can -- and did -- turn into an hour-long event with several breakdowns during the ride -- thank the Phoenicians for that one. So, checking FP times can actually become a necessity. It would be unfortunate to have your FP for Soarin and miss it because SE broke down four different times -- seriously! I am not kidding! And then won't it be a fine howdy-do when 40 people riding SE miss Soarin' because their Fastpasses have expired? That may well be a PR nightmare waiting to happen. These are the kinds of things that WDW may not have considered when instituting this policy.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

What majority? We are just back, and the FP lines were definitely shorter - it's definitely working There are many other posters that are saying the same thing.

I haven't done the exact math, however I frequent the boards daily and it seems the majority of people are reporting longer FP lines. Only a few said it was better but it also appears to be better during quite periods in the parks. During the quite periods, FP's are almost not necessary.

We never rope drop. I know people on the Dis think it's practically suicide if you don't. But we're not morning people. If we got up at 6:30AM - 7AM, we could be cranky by midday. It seems pointless for us to do this. Due to this, our FP return times are often 4+ hours away. Are we going to hand out in Adventureland for 4 hours with only 3 other rides? We would need to trek all the way back from elsewhere so what exactly would be the point in getting through the line a little faster when we have already wasted 10-15 minutes or more walking back.

 

[vacationer1954]

FastPass isn't really going to work for everyone. I'm glad that Disney is enforcing the time periods now so it better serves the needs who do agree to return during the time periods, and especially glad to hear that that is having some good impact on the FP lines.

 

[tinkbyday]

In fact, with the onset of this enforcement policy, I have to think Hoppers is gonna take a huge hit.




I promise you each and every one of them has used the FP beyond the time on the ticket.And that's all I have to say about that, for now.

I really doubt that PH will take a "huge" hit - especially not due to this change. Keep in mind that not everyone even knew about the possibility of returning after window, as evidenced by several right on this thread who had been going for years.

PH has benefits that have nothing to do with being able to use a FP after a window.



You are incorrect on this statement - We have never used the FP ticket beyond the time on the ticket - we almost always are back at the attraction by the start time on the ticket, but never after. I have even given FPs away because we had other places to go and wouldn't be around during the time range - knowing we would still be in the park later.

 

[Johndoodle]

Many on here are acting like using the FP beyond the printed times was wrong. It wasn't, as evidenced by the fact that they let you do it. And it wasn't just for a little while that they did it. It was for years. WDW let this practice continue for years, to the point where many of us who went several times came to accept it as how it FP was structured. Nobody was trying to get anything over on anybody. We just did what WDW told us to do. Now we are supposed to just accept this enforcement as no big deal? Well, it IS a big deal. It's a huge inconvenience to those of us who use PH like a revolving door. In fact, with the onset of this enforcement policy, I have to think Hoppers is gonna take a huge hit. It was a benefit of staying onsite to hit rope drop at MK, grab a FP for Space Mountain, ride it, hit Buzz, cross to PoC and Small World and then jet over to HS and grab a FP for RR and then ride TT while waiting for the FP time on RR. Then, later that night cash in the FP for Space Space Mountain before starting the EMH schedule. It just seems quite a few on here are a bit uppity about using FP beyond the time printed on the ticket, but that really ties you to the park until the time comes to use the FP. OP, I feel you. I think the new policy stinks and will question whether I buy PH again. Don't stress about all the purists in here getting all cranked up, I promise you each and every one of them has used the FP beyond the time on the ticket.And that's all I have to say about that, for now.

Could you please stop lying. We NEVER used FP after the printed time. Not every one has low morals or standards.

 

[maxiesmom]

As far as the current state of them? I'd love for Disney to actually put something in place so we wouldn't have to trek across the park just to CHECK the FP return times. Something that doesn't require me pulling up my phone while on isaw to check if I can pull a FP for Space, or if the return time is going to be in the middle of other plans. That IS a problem and Disney certainly should not rely on 3rd party applications and guests' personal cell phones to solve it for them.

Epcot does have the huge board in the enter of the plaza that shows the times.

However, I don't see something like that fitting in with the ambiance of the Magic Kingdom. Not to mention, unless they put up a bunch of them (which would be eyesores, imho) then you would probably have to do a bunch of walking to get to them to see the wait times. It is probably easier just to walk to the ride itself than to have to hike to where the times board would be.

Not sure why it is such a huge problem to do some walking while you are in the parks. Isn't it part of being in the parks, a lot of walking?

 

[Cafeen]

Could you please stop lying. We NEVER used FP after the printed time. Not every one has low morals or standards.

This...

...is exactly why you people. Yes. You people. Get called bullheaded and ignorant. Hell, I'm going even call you stupid. Following a policy that the company itself supported, announced (via CMs), and did not have a problem with for ~7-10 years is NOT low morals. It's being smart. Since you cannot grasp that concept, you apparently are not smart. I don't care if you used them in the window before, if it worked for you great. But I'll be damned if you're going to insult me for using them differently in a way still within the rules.

Now, see how I react to a different opinion when it doesn't insult me...

I think this is a great idea (especially for Soarin, when it's such a trek to get down to the attraction to check the FP time.)

I don't think it's necessary to check FP times while ON a dark ride, though. That can be done when you exit the attraction. I mean, if you're so worried about what you're riding next that you can't enjoy the ride you're on, why bother with any of it?

As mentioned below, Epcot actually has 2 boards right now that show this information. One on the external (so, pavilion) side of each innoventions building.

As far as the dark ride thing, it was a bit more tongue-in-cheek More than likely, I'll be shooting photos the whole ride (with a fast lens, high ISO, and no flash ).

Epcot does have the huge board in the enter of the plaza that shows the times.

However, I don't see something like that fitting in with the ambiance of the Magic Kingdom. Not to mention, unless they put up a bunch of them (which would be eyesores, imho) then you would probably have to do a bunch of walking to get to them to see the wait times. It is probably easier just to walk to the ride itself than to have to hike to where the times board would be.

Not sure why it is such a huge problem to do some walking while you are in the parks. Isn't it part of being in the parks, a lot of walking?

Yep, the Epcot ones are fine (though, 2 sitting in WS, about Africa area and France would also be helpful). I was thinking smaller LCD types screens, 1 in each land or so, that scroll the different times. Not the giant displays that Epcot FW has. Somehow though, I doubt walking from BTMRR to Space (or Safari to Dinosaur, or ST to ToT) would be shorter than walking to a land-centralized set of LCD screens that scroll current wait and FP return times. It would lead to less time wasted and less of a sense of hassle for the guests.

There ARE times when guest experience must trump the "magic" (opening the back side of Main St. for stupidly crowded exits, stroller parking, etc. (ideally, you integrate them though so the guest experience and the "magic" fit together, which wouldn't be hard to do with themed frames))

 

[jamelynn24]

We just got back yesterday from a week at WDW and I totally agree about the FP messing up our plans.
One example was when we had an ADR at Mama Melrose at 12:30. Arrived at HS at 8:10am for EMH and went straight to Toy Story for a FP. As my husband waited in line, I watched the FP time go up and up until it wasn't going to work with our ADR...12:20, to be exact. Even if we walked directly into the ride vehicle at 12:20, we'd never make it. I canceled the ADR.
Another example was when I took the kids on a ride at MK and my husband ran across the park to get FP's for Splash Mountain. We had an ADR at 1:30, FP time was 1:45-2:45. We kept the ADR, but it was a wasted trek across MK for the FP.

Besides these two examples, on three separate occasions, we did not use FP's because we couldn't get to that side of the park in time because we were on other rides. We also gave away FP's when we had to leave due to crabby kids. In other trips, we would have taken naps, then returned to the park later and used the FP at this time.

What we found was that we did a LOT of extra walking to get/use the FP. It was hard to come up with an organized plan because of the set FP time. Would we have time to walk across the park for one ride, wait in line and make it back in time for FP?? Sometimes the answer was no....and that's a wasted FP.
We also found that we wasted a lot of time standing outside the ride waiting for our FP time to come up because it didn't make sense to go somewhere else. Many others have the same idea, so when the clock hits a new time, 30+ people are all charging the FP return line...which is just one more time to get to be pushed around be strangers trying to get ahead of you.

On some rides, I feel the FP line ended up moving quicker than during previous visits, but not enough to make me like this new time enforcement.

 

[maxiesmom]

We just got back yesterday from a week at WDW and I totally agree about the FP messing up our plans.
One example was when we had an ADR at Mama Melrose at 12:30. Arrived at HS at 8:10am for EMH and went straight to Toy Story for a FP. As my husband waited in line, I watched the FP time go up and up until it wasn't going to work with our ADR...12:20, to be exact. Even if we walked directly into the ride vehicle at 12:20, we'd never make it. I canceled the ADR.
Another example was when I took the kids on a ride at MK and my husband ran across the park to get FP's for Splash Mountain. We had an ADR at 1:30, FP time was 1:45-2:45. We kept the ADR, but it was a wasted trek across MK for the FP.

There have been reports that if you are at an ADR and your Fast Pass time comes up, they will still let you ride the ride late. As long as you show your restaurant receipt. I know this doesn't help now, but you could have kept your ADR and then gone back to Toy Story.

 

[maxiesmom]

Could you please stop lying. We NEVER used FP after the printed time. Not every one has low morals or standards.

Oh good grief, it has nothing to do with morals. People were told by the Cast Members that they could use their Fast Passes past the time window listed on them. That does not make people who did that immoral.

I never used a FP late because I was unaware that you could. I don't think that makes me morally superior for Pete's sake. Just really blonde.