mini-rant

[mesaboy2]

Perhaps they did intend for the majority of guests to use their fastpasses within the printed times, hence the influencing of behavior. I believe you are making my point. Also, and I could be mistaken here, I think the verbiage was explicit about early returns, but not those after the printed time.

You aren't.

 

[WillAustin]

So simply because changes in enforcement were made at Walt Disney World but not DisneyLand Resort doesn't make anything clear except that, well, a process is being enforced at WDW but not DLR.

No, it's just another data point that fits. But if you check around, there is and has been, plenty of complaining about late FP returns at DLR. If it was truly considered a problem, they most likely would have changed it there too. And while it might not be exactly clear, too many things point to preparation for the new X-Pass system as the primary reason for enforcement rather than anything else.

 

[goofyernmost]

Sounds like its more of a perceptual thing to you then, maybe? If so, I think that's pretty common here.

Maybe that's our problem connecting to each other. I want to talk about the overall mathematics going on and you want to talk about what you see when you get in line. I can't debate that.

It seems to me that all we have to work with is conceptual. We don't have any hard numbers, percentages or even theoretical numbers. It is pretty hard to do the math when all the equation spaces are filled in with an X.

Even though I respect mathematical equations, none of them are more accurate then reality. Mathematically one could say that the equation says that there should be 10 people there. If what you see in line is 15 people then what is more correct, the math or the reality?

So you are right, it is tough to debate reality.

 

[kaytieeldr]

If you haven't been back to use the new system - you really shouldn't comment on how it will work because you've never experienced FP working in this manner.

Very respectfully, you would be entirely wrong with these statements.
This isn't any type of new system. It's the original procedure being once again enforced.
Many of us absolutely have experienced FastPass working in this manner. From its inception in about 1999 until sometime in the early/mid-2000s, the return window was enforced.
Many, many, many of us are accustomed to the original FastPass system - the one you're thinking is new.

 

[canopynut66]

Wish I could have sympathy for ya - but, since I am one of the "purists" (I guess that means people who follow the rules).

Maybe you should be grateful you got away with it for as long as you did

I will be interested to see if the FP lines are shorter now that people can't return whenever they want to.

Have to agree. Disney should have never let it go on as long as it did and then "enforcing the rule that was already in place" would have not had to be

 

[mesaboy2]

It seems to me that all we have to work with is conceptual. We don't have any hard numbers, percentages or even theoretical numbers. It is pretty hard to do the math when all the equation spaces are filled in with an X.

Even though I respect mathematical equations, none of them are more accurate then reality. Mathematically one could say that the equation says that there should be 10 people there. If what you see in line is 15 people then what is more correct, the math or the perception of reality?

So you are right, it is tough to debate perception of reality.

Fixed it for you. Your perception of reality doesn't seem to want to take into account that 5 of those 15 people you see would have still gone through the line before you if they went hours ago during their window. The difference is what your eyes see, nothing else. I know you've heard that before, and now you've heard it again.

Enough from me for now.

 

[goofyredraider]

We just got back on Friday from two weeks in the world. We had ZERO issues using FP effectively, timely, and our touring was stress-free.

 

[Disney_Princess83]

Wish I could have sympathy for ya - but, since I am one of the "purists" (I guess that means people who follow the rules).

Maybe you should be grateful you got away with it for as long as you did

I will be interested to see if the FP lines are shorter now that people can't return whenever they want to.

According to the majority of posts the FP lines are now much longer then ev before. Why? I'd say because there are peak times through the day of getting FPs so the return times are all similar now. hardly seems worth it for me if I'm going to wait in a line that's almost as long as standby.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think it is a marketing ploy to get you to spend more money...if you are stuck in an area waiting for your FP return time and you rode everything in that area or the lines are too long, what are you going to do (or what is Disney hoping you will do) buy a snack and sit and wait or wander into a gift shop and buy some stuff. You are not going to wander too far if your FP is in 20 minutes or so.

That was always the underlying intention of FastPass - that the guest would stay in the area and eat or shop until the (ideally, somewhat close) return time.

 

[UNCFanatik]

But you actually made my point for me - You had to be there at rope drop to get a reasonable return time, then you walked the entire width of FutureWorld and back to fill the time before using it. We were at Epcot two days, for special events both days so we couldn't join the Soarin' stampede. I checked on FP return times at 11-11:30 when the events wrapped up and both days getting that FP would have required hiking from the back of the World Showcase where we were to the Land, then heading back there in 6+ hours (late enough to interfere with dinner arrangements). It works if you don't mind all the extra walking and you don't make any time-sensitive plans other than your luck-of-the-draw FP returns, but for those for whom the extra mileage is an issue and those of us who like an air conditioned, sit down meal in the evening the new system cramps our style.

Didnt make your point for you at all. We had planned on doing those attractions between our two rides on Soarin to begin with. We didnt have to "kill" any time while waiting for our FP window. The time we walked from Mission Space to Soarin was within our FP window so we werent "filling" any time before our FP window opened.

And previous to March 7th, you would still have to "kill" time while waiting for an FP window to open up. And ANY return to Soaring would require a fair amount of walking because of the size of Epcot.

That evening, I did have a sit down air conditioned meal in Biergarten that was time sensitive and then went on to an Illumination Cruise. Everything I did that day, I chose to do and made my plans accordingly. I never once had to change my plans that day based on FPs.

True, but none of those other variables has been changed. On any given day, the enforcement of FP returns will cause more people to return earlier in the day than on a similar day when late returns were allowed. The posters who like this policy seem to want to have it both ways - they claim it will make lines move faster at the end of the day since no one can return late, but then want to say we can't know if shifting those FP returns to earlier will have any effect on standby waits. If late returns had an impact, enough of an impact to change policy according to some sources, they obviously represent numbers enough to have an impact earlier in the day as well.

You dont know that as a fact. You dont know how many previous late FP users now are just not pulling FPs because the return times will not work for them. Because you are missing this data, you cant say with certainty that FP enforcement is causing longer standby lines in the peak of the day.

There are also factors that increase ride demand and line lengths. Such as when a ride goes down for any length of time. When a large group gets into a line. FPs are not the only variable at work here.

And much like your side of the argument would like to have it both ways. First, we hear how late FP usage doesnt affect others because of how relatively few people did it to now it having a huge affect in the middle of the day on the lines since enforcement.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Perhaps they did intend for the majority of guests to use their fastpasses within the printed times, hence the influencing of behavior. I believe you are making my point. Also, and I could be mistaken here, I think the verbiage was explicit about early returns, but not those after the printed time.

Too funny. You make an assertion of pure speculation but yet offer no substance. Now you prove my point that Disney designed the program with the intention of guest returning within the printed window and enforced that from the start.

Lets look back at what you said to begin with lest you claim I misquote you:

As for why they had an end time if it wasn't their policy to enforce it, it is because they were influencing behavior. Many organizations, especially large organizations with lots of staistical data find ways to influence behavior without restricing themselves or their customers with excessive rules. Disney is very good at this. Sometimes this creates the illusion of a rule where none exists. In this case we have seen ample evidence that the rule or "policy" was that fastpasses would be valid on the day they were acquired anytime after the opening of the printed window.

And shall we break this down a bit:

As for why they had an end time if it wasn't their policy to enforce it, it is because they were influencing behavior.

But it was Disney's policy to enforce the FP window because that is what they did when they first rolled it out.

Many organizations, especially large organizations with lots of staistical data find ways to influence behavior without restricing themselves or their customers with excessive rules. Disney is very good at this. Sometimes this creates the illusion of a rule where none exists.

But this is not what Disney did. They started the FP program with a defined set of rules. Guests are to return within the printed window on the ticket. And they enforced this rule. Disney did create restrictions with this program along with rules. The rule did exist and one can not say that it was just a mere "illusion" of a rule.

In this case we have seen ample evidence that the rule or "policy" was that fastpasses would be valid on the day they were acquired anytime after the opening of the printed window.

Ample evidence? You have not made your case here mainly because the FP enforcement is not a new event. Disney started out enforcing the FP window and then relaxed the enforcement and now is enforcing it once again.

 

[WillAustin]

If the FP lines are longer, I'm not sure enforcement of the window is causing it. My money would be on increased distribution of FPs being the cause.

 

[tinkbyday]

According to the majority of posts the FP lines are now much longer then ev before. Why? I'd say because there are peak times through the day of getting FPs so the return times are all similar now. hardly seems worth it for me if I'm going to wait in a line that's almost as long as standby.

We must be reading different threads, this one in particular seems to indicate the changed, enforced policy is resulting in shorter waits with the exception of, I think, one or two posters.

I'm not a CM, so I can't speak intelligently on the subject, but I believe that Disney only prints so many for a time period so that individuals can experience the attraction without the standby wait - it would make sense to me that enforcing the time would allow for a faster entrance to the attraction since there will not be those that were within the time-frame AND those that were not.

As I have posted previously, I will look forward to finding out first hand in November.

 

[UNCFanatik]

If the FP lines are longer, I'm not sure enforcement of the window is causing it. My money would be on increased distribution of FPs being the cause.

Yes, that would be the logical conclusion but not the only one. I wonder if they are truly increasing FP distribution across the board at all FP attractions.

I was in the parks from May 31st - June 8th and the longest FP line I waited in was about 15 minutes at Splash at 1pm on Wed, June 6th. I dont have anything to compare that to since I am not a frequent park visitor as to gauge what it was like pre-enforcement. But I will tell you that Spash was down for part of the morning which could have also affected the lines.

It will definitely be interesting to watch as the crowd level increases over the summer months.

 

[WillAustin]

Yes, that would be the logical conclusion but not the only one. I wonder if they are truly increasing FP distribution across the board at all FP attractions.

I wonder that too. We are gong to be there for 10 days starting Tuesday, and I'm going to see if I can get any CMs to talk about it.

 

[minnie mum]

We just got back on Friday from two weeks in the world. We had ZERO issues using FP effectively, timely, and our touring was stress-free.

This is what I expected would happen and am happy to see it confirmed by someone who has been there and done that.

I fall into the group of oldtimers who have used FP since its inception. We never thought of it as a scheduling dilemma that required one iota of angst, stress and hairpulling in order to tour the parks in an enjoyable and efficient manner. We looked at it as a lovely way to avoid standing in line at the more popular attractions and used them as best we could. If we couldn't get a FP that would work for us we simply made a decision about whether or not to use standby and then moved on. There was NEVER a question of trying to use them past their window.

Fast forward quite a few years and I started to lurk on the Disboards. Read about fast passes being allowed after the window. Thought "Whoopee!" and we would take advantage of this a couple of times a day. But even then we would usually use most of our FPs inside the printed window. I am not one of those "I'm better than you are because I never abused the rules" folks. Just one of the ones who didn't make a big deal out of it one way or the other.

Now, alas, things have reverted to the original intent. Well, OK then. Not a problem. BTDT. It is what it is and no amount of moaning will change it, no matter what the reason for it. Are fast pass lines longer than before? Shorter? Have they altered the number that are given out? Are the standby lines any longer or shorter now? (By the way- since it's been only a short while since the change, are all of you who are comparing lengths of lines taking into account the big increases in crowd size since then, or are you comparing apples to apples- comparing crowd sizes from this date last year to the same date this year?)

Does it really make any difference in the long run, since there is nothing any of us can do about it anyway? I just can't see, for the life of me, why some folks are so worked up about the whole thing.

 

[North of Mouse]

According to the majority of posts the FP lines are now much longer then ev before. Why? I'd say because there are peak times through the day of getting FPs so the return times are all similar now. hardly seems worth it for me if I'm going to wait in a line that's almost as long as standby.

What majority? We are just back, and the FP lines were definitely shorter - it's definitely working There are many other posters that are saying the same thing.

 

[2girls4me]

How hard can it possibly be? You get a fastpass and then you use it. Unless it is for a lot later, you can't have that many at a time. You just stay in the area until you can use it.

I don't get how hard of a thing it is.

No snark, but is that really what the big change to fp is?

Why all the drama?

 

[goofyernmost]

Fixed it for you. Your perception of reality doesn't seem to want to take into account that 5 of those 15 people you see would have still gone through the line before you if they went hours ago during their window. The difference is what your eyes see, nothing else. I know you've heard that before, and now you've heard it again.

Enough from me for now.

I suppose this could go on forever, because some theory would say that the only reality that there is for an individual is what they see at any given time. Surprisingly, we don't really disagree in theory, I just maintain that the only reality that counts is what you or I or anyone experiences at the time it is taking place. All else is either conjecture or observation that has passed and was someone elses reality.

What you are saying may very well be true, but, it doesn't necessarily transfer to another space and time. That makes it conjecture. Those five might also have gone through when there was a minimal line that also would have been able to easily handle those other 10. Had they all gone then...it would have had absolutely no effect on me what so ever. In order for it to have any impact on me hours later the assumption would have to be made that the lines never gained room and only continued to get larger throughout the day.

This has been fun, don't give up now!

 

[ARAITHEL]

IDK, but I'm just happy that we have a FP option...I remember when I went to Cedar Point as a kid. We had to wait for ever...with no FP!