Mini-Rant - Service Dog Issue

[golfgal]

Ok, I will say it, my guess is the "service" dog isn't a service dog since the OP doesn't want to educate us.

 

[EMom]

I bet you feel the same way about Dobermans,German Shepards or any large breed.

The media and people like you are the ones that give them the bad rap.ANY dog can SNAP.But from what your saying only pitbulls.You never hear from the media the good side of the breed which far out wieghs the bad.So keep your blinders on.Tho's of us that know the breed know better!!!

You'd be wrong.

I'll put my personal experience with pit bulls up against yours any day. Difference is, I had the sense to LEARN from the horrific experience and not imagine little pretend angel wings and halos on those dogs. Reality is my friend.

You keep being buddies with them and I'll keep being safe. To each his own.

 

[lillygator]

my bets are on the mini dach....and was it posted the service provided? Now I am just curious more than ever. I am in Publix almost daily and I really don't want animals around my food. I would have been thinking, what the heck but I doubt I would have said anything to the manager.

 

[Delaney21]

Of course any breed can snap, but pit bulls seem to do it an awful lot.

Isn't the problem with pit bulls that they don't just snap, they go for the kill? Whereas other dogs may snap or bite, they don't carry on with it?

 

[dzorn]

There damn well should be.

A little common sense goes a long way.

The problem with this is training a service dog is very costly. The place we recieved DD therphy dog from also trains service dogs. All dogs start with the same training there. The cost of her training was over $18,000 many people with disabilities could not afford it and many train their own.

Just becasue someone cannot afford professional training does not mean that the should be prohibited from having a service dog. Yes there is going to be some abuse out there but you should not penalize people with disabilities because of poeple that cheat the system. Cheaters will always find a way around the rules.

FYI I had to sit through 3 days of training for DD dog along with the other graduates (Service Dogs). One of the training tests was walking by the dog and dropping a loud item the dog was not to move from the command they were given (sit, down, under) another was having a person walk over them without moving. If you see a dog not behaving in public then most likely it is not a service dog, because even a service dog that is not under control and behaving can be asked to leave an establishment. The service dogs had additional days of training after we left dealing with being out in public but I was amazed at the things they can do.

Though for us it would be much simplier if Mercedes could not open doors.

Though even a well trained service dog may react to new experiences, after all you are only trained for what they have experienced in the past.

Denise in MI

 

[jrmasm]

The problem with this is training a service dog is very costly. The place we recieved DD therphy dog from also trains service dogs. All dogs start with the same training there. The cost of her training was over $18,000 many people with disabilities could not afford it and many train their own.

Just becasue someone cannot afford professional training does not mean that the should be prohibited from having a service dog. Yes there is going to be some abuse out there but you should not penalize people with disabilities because of poeple that cheat the system. Cheaters will always find a way around the rules.

FYI I had to sit through 3 days of training for DD dog along with the other graduates (Service Dogs). One of the training tests was walking by the dog and dropping a loud item the dog was not to move from the command they were given (sit, down, under) another was having a person walk over them without moving. If you see a dog not behaving in public then most likely it is not a service dog, because even a service dog that is not under control and behaving can be asked to leave an establishment. The service dogs had additional days of training after we left dealing with being out in public but I was amazed at the things they can do.

Though for us it would be much simplier if Mercedes could not open doors.

Though even a well trained service dog may react to new experiences, after all you are only trained for what they have experienced in the past.

Denise in MI

While the cost involved in unfortunate, that doesn't change my opinion.

eta: I can imagine that accessible vans are very expensive too but people manage.

 

[phorsenuf]

There's a reason it costs so much. It's to provide the proper training. Not something someone could do at home, especially with a rescued junkyard dog.

 

[donaldduck352]

This is my last attempt to educate the masses of people that hate pet bulls.Here is a great website to do some research before passing judgement:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/home.html

 

[msjprincess]

This is my last attempt to educate the masses of people that hate pet bulls.Here is a great website to do some research before passing judgement:
http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/home.html

I'd definitely be afraid of a pet bull.

 

[brittsmum1998]

I'd definitely be afraid of a pet bull.

 

[donaldduck352]

I'd definitely be afraid of a pet bull.

 

[Jennasis]

Well the OP hasn't actually been on the boards since yesterday. It's possible that the poster isn't a crazed DIS slave (like me!) who checks the boards every ten minutes, and just hadn't been around to answer the demands of the pitchfork toting masses.

However at this point, if I were the OP, I wouldn't give you people the time of day, much less an answer. Color me cranky, but the boards have been simply insufferable lately.

 

[RitaE]

he cost of her training was over $18,000 many people with disabilities could not afford it and many train their own.

Well, I get your point about the cost being prohibitive for many people. But .. my Mom investigated a Service Animal when my Dad lost his eyesight and the reason for that cost was it was an extremely long and work intensive process to produce an animal who was not only trained to provide a service but was also reliably trained to act reliably in public and in stressful situations.

In fact, in the literature my Mom had there was a certain amount of time that the young dogs were spending with Foster Families that were responsible for obedience training and socialization etc before a Service Dog organization would even evaluate them for entrance into the program and some dogs never make it past that stage because they simply don't have the required temperament. And the genetics definitely influence behavior .. retrievers tend to retrieve, pointers tend to point, and beagles are pretty much a nose with a dog attached. A qualified trainer definitely considers breed traits when considering what functions a Service Dog could perform to enhance the life of a Disabled client.

I'm sure as you know that many dogs that begin the training process flunk out and become simply well trained pets. Not every pet can be made into a Service Animal - at least if things work the way they should.

So while I'm not necessarily opposed to somebody training a dog themselves, I am definitely opposed to somebody getting their hands on an abused Pit Bull and thinking they can turn it into a Service Dog in a couple of months.

It certainly does the Disabled Community no favors to have such animals out in restaurants and malls as representations.

 

[kwelch10377]

However at this point, if I were the OP, I wouldn't give you people the time of day, much less an answer. Color me cranky, but the boards have been simply insufferable lately.

I agree, I wonder if the heat is making everyone cranky.

 

[jrmasm]

Well, I get your point about the cost being prohibitive for many people. But .. my Mom investigated a Service Animal when my Dad lost his eyesight and the reason for that cost was it was an extremely long and work intensive process to produce an animal who was not only trained to provide a service but was also reliably trained to act reliably in public and in stressful situations.

In fact, in the literature my Mom had there was a certain amount of time that the young dogs were spending with Foster Families that were responsible for obedience training and socialization etc before a Service Dog organization would even evaluate them for entrance into the program and some dogs never make it past that stage because they simply don't have the required temperament. And the genetics definitely influence behavior .. retrievers tend to retrieve, pointers tend to point, and beagles are pretty much a nose with a dog attached. A qualified trainer definitely considers breed traits when considering what functions a Service Dog could perform to enhance the life of a Disabled client.

I'm sure as you know that many dogs that begin the training process flunk out and become simply well trained pets. Not every pet can be made into a Service Animal - at least if things work the way they should.

So while I'm not necessarily opposed to somebody training a dog themselves, I am definitely opposed to somebody getting their hands on an abused Pit Bull and thinking they can turn it into a Service Dog in a couple of months.

It certainly does the Disabled Community no favors to have such animals out in restaurants and malls as representations.

I am. The average pet owner has difficulty training a dog to be a good pet.

 

[Planogirl]

I'd definitely be afraid of a pet bull.

Do we now have service bulls?

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Apparently in England and Australia, there is a national certification program for service dogs that is required for dogs to be given the designation of service dog. People with the proper knowledge evaluate the dogs and decides if they can be certified and given all the rights of access. I wish we would go to this model. I'll admit, I don't have a disability or use a service dog in any way, but surely it wouldn't be too difficult to have a special patch you sew onto a vest or a piece of paper you carry just like your driver's license. It appears to work for these other countries.

This would also leave room for those who choose to train dogs outside of a formal organization. Based on what I have read, the cost of training a dog on your own is $5,000, so it appears it is not the owners themselves who are doing the training, they are still working with a professional, just not under the umbrella of an organization.

As for the cost... most organizations ask that you fundraise, the person with the disability does not pay the cost themselves in many cases.

 

[Singleminnie]

Sorry if this has been posted already, but I work with service/assistive animals all the time, those rights are covered by the Dept. of Justice. If you have an issue in public, you can all them and they will advise you what to do or investigate any complaints. You would be surprised how many people there are now days that are ignorant of the law. As you can tell, it makes me made and I don't have a family member that has one. If you have any questions, you can also pm me, I deal mostly with service animals and housing.

 

[DBL101]

I'll get flamed for this, but here goes....

The "I need a service dog/cat/lizard/whatever to calm my nerves and keep me from being too anxious" is beyond the pale for me. Simply too freaking much. For every nerve of yours that the animal calms, it agitates the nerves of at least one other person, and possibly the nerves of many.

Having a service animal because you lack sight, etc. is one thing. But because you are too anxiety ridden? Come on! So you take Brutus out with you so you can stay nice and calm....Never mind that 3 kids and an old lady just had to leave the store because they're scared crapless of dogs?

There has to be a balance. The blind person's need for a service animal trumps and I can see that. But I don't think one person's anxiety should trump another's anxiety enough for them to be able to take an animal with them. Become friends with Xanax or something. Learn to breath deeply. I don't know.....It's all just a little too snowflakey to me. I fear a day not too far in the future when the mall will be full of nervous, shaking humans holding nervous, shaking Chihuahuas.

More and more people keep taking their non-service dogs EVERYWHERE with them. Add to that the many people who are hauling dogs around claiming they're service dogs when they're not. TRUE service dogs don't even stand out anymore. You can't spit without hitting a dog in public. I can see why children cannot understand that service dogs are to be left alone and respected as working dogs. True, they should be taught better by their parents, but it's confusing for them when everywhere they go they see dogs, dogs, dogs.

When I was a kid and we saw a dog in a store, you knew good and well it was a service dog and we left it alone. We were in awe of them. But for kids today, they don't stand out as such because of the sheer number of dogs they see in public.

What she said

 

[SaveTheSeaTurtles]

I would never have thought that there would be so many judgements made because I had not posted in a 24 hour period. Wow - I don't know what to say to that. I should have known better since we all have read so many similar posts - people are SO quick to judge and accuse. Why is that? Human nature can be so unpredicatable.

I want to preface this by saying that I am SO fortunate and blessed to have people around me that are understanding and have open minds. I meet many great people every day - and I am lucky. My original post was made because I was particularly frustrated that day. Maybe I should not bother posting - I don't know. This site so often has inflammatory posts. It is sad.

To those who posted in support of me - thank you. You are what is good in this world. Thank you.

To those who choose to rush to judgement (as you clearly did in your posted speculations on why I was not responding to posts for 24 hours) ---- continue on - you must have very sad lives and I feel badly for you. Making those assumptions is just nasty....but it makes me appreciate true human beings even more.

*I will not be addressing any other negative responses after this post, other than the ones I am responding to now. As another poster noted it cannot "take up space in my head" .....



Yesterday 11:52 PM
Jennasis Well the OP hasn't actually been on the boards since yesterday. It's possible that the poster isn't a crazed DIS slave (like me!) who checks the boards every ten minutes, and just hadn't been around to answer the demands of the pitchfork toting masses.

However at this point, if I were the OP, I wouldn't give you people the time of day, much less an answer. Color me cranky, but the boards have been simply insufferable lately.

Jennasis - Thank you for that post. You are correct. I have not been on the boards since I posted my last response. I CERTAINLY did not think that the pitchfork carrying villagers would have come out in such force while I was gone. I am posting responses to some of these posts - quite frankly, though, there are a couple that don't deserve a response. They are quite judgemental !! Wow...that is all I can say.

Yesterday, 12:24 AM #34
sparklynails23

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoopermom
I have an acquaintance who has a service dog who helps her w/anxiety/
panic type issues. Obviously, she doesn't wish to share this with strangers. What she did was have a business card made up that has a few generic sentences about service dogs on it, and a few informative websites. It isn't meant to be "proof", more "educational". Kind of like me with my ECV at WDW, she's had to grow a tough skin to put up with some judgemental people.

Hugs to you and your s.d.!
Terri

IMO, that's an abuse of the system. Lots of people like to have their pets around and feel comforted by their presence, but "my dog makes me feel comfy when out in public" is not a legitimate medical issue. It's people like your friend who are ruining it for people with disabilities who NEED service animals in public places, like blind people and those with seizure disorders.
sparklynails23

There are dogs, I have read, who are specifically trained for this. Although panic/anxiety is not (I don't think) officially recognized as a disability under ADA, I would encourage anyone who is really interested in this type of disorder, to read about it - there ARE people who are so disabled with it that it affects their every day living. They are not able to go outside and go about the business of living because they are so affected by it. It is not always because "the dog makes them comfy" as you put it. It is because the dog allows them to leave their home. Unless you are aware of how debilitating the disorder can be, you are likely not aware that it can indeed affect everything you try to do each day. I have been reading more and more about people who are assisted by a dog & it allows them to go outside and live life. I can't judge that - I guess under the law, the dog needs to be performing a specific task for the person - and it would be up to someone more informed than I am to decide if there should be any amendments to the law.


07-26-2010, 06:19 PM #1
SaveTheSeaTurtles

We travel with a service dog. She is tagged and wears a vest so that everyone can see that she is NOT a pet. I purposely ensure that she carries more identification than is required by law.


For those who were concerned that the dog was not tagged or identified properly, which justifies the woman's confrontational demeanor - I had notes in both of my posts that indicated she is identified clearly. I also noted that we do provide education - but it is not reasonable to expect that I will divulge medical conditions or the like, OR be reasonably expected to always have time to stop and talk with someone. By saying that, it does not mean that I do NOT educate - it means I have a life to live and I do not always plan to spend an additional 10 min. in the grocery store so I can be responsible for someone's education. (let the flaming continue!!!!)

07-26-2010, 11:02 PM #20


I just want to clarify - I never mind if someone asks me about the dog. This lady was being mean and confrontational - that is why I was upset. Most often, we are approached by children who want to "look at/pet the doggy" - sometimes, I am able to allow her to spend time with them and other times, I am not - it depends on the circumstance. Sometimes I hear their parents tell them "no, she is a working dog and we cannot pet her

We have often provided education - and don't mind doing it but not to someone who is being an idiot. She did not approach us like she genuinely wanted to know anything, just that she wanted us to know by her tone and body language that WE did NOT belong there while she was shopping...

Service dogs are not required to be tagged and wear vests - it makes it easier for those of us that have the dogs to put the ID's on her/him (and easier for store workers too so they are not stressing) . In our case, her vest has a badge that says " Working Dog. Do Not Pet" and she also wears an ID tag, noting that she is a service dog with full access. When I travel, I carry medical documentation so that if it is ever required, I have that too but I don't carry it with me every day, just like I don't carry my passport.


07-26-2010, 11:32 PM #26
chloelovesdisney

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraJayne
I noticed you still haven't mentioned what breed your dog is and what "service" she provides to you.

When we see a true service dog (ie one that is wearing a vest and/or sign) I will point it out to my kids, but tell them the dog is working and we are not allowed to disturb it from it's job.

As has already been pointed out, I can understand the lady's frustration, since so many people claim their dogs are "service animals", when they are really just a way for people to carry around little snookums and not leave the "poor wittle darlings" at home alone.

The lady had no reason to be frustrated, she should have been minding her own business. It's only up to the store's employees to be concerned about whether or not it is a service animal. They questioned her and were satisfied by her answer obviously. I've yet to meet even one person anywhere that appears to be falsely claiming their dog is a service dog to bring them in places they don't belong. It seems like it's an epidemic here on the disboards and in real life I've seen it zero times.



Unfortunately, living on this earth (as I already mentioned) there will be people who abuse the system and the law. That does not mean that everyone who is legitimate should be barred from continuing on with their lives.
ChloeLovesDisney - I agree with you. *When I looked at some of the responses tonight to my original posts, I was very much reminded of the refillable mug and pool-hopping posts - some posters really need to settle down and stop the accusing posts (as in the posters who kept "checking to see the breed and service in my situation - this really has no bearing on the issue. The dog was identified, the situation was quickly resolved with the manager, and I was simply confronted by a woman who chose to be argumentative and confrontational - which was the reason for my original post.

As for the poster who noted that I have "several dogs" - well, what does this have to do with anything?????????? Incredible that you would say that! We do have two dogs currently in our home - one is a service dog and one is a pet - did I break a law?????????

Yesterday, 01:03 AM #41
MoniqueU

I am sorry that that woman was snotty to you OP, this probably isn't new for you? I have put up with the uniformed for years now even amongst friends.

Monique - it is not new but to be very honest, it has happened very few times that someone is confrontational like that. I guess we have been lucky that way ! We often get employees who sidle up to us to check the dog, but they are very discreet about it and we have never been asked to leave a business because she was with me. They are doing their job and I appreciate that!

Yesterday, 01:16 AM #42
ChristmasElf

To be honest, unless the dog has a vest on stating Service Animal or something similar, I too would be not too pleased to see a dog in PUBLIX.

If you don't want to disclose the make and model of your "service" dog, could you at least tell me which PUBLIX you shop at?

Christmas Elf - I will answer your post specifically because it did not seem like you are carrying the same pitchfork that a couple of posters are carrying - it is not that I do not want to disclose the "make and model" - I did not initially mention it because I did not find it relevant to the situation - which it is not. I did not respond to the other posts because I was not online - who would have though that several posters would jump to conclusions that are incorrect. I guess I really should have known better.
To satisfy the curiosity of everyone though, she is a mixed breed spaniel - she is trained to detect pending seizures and can get the medication bottle from my purse...she is a legitimate service dog. Because she can detect pending seizures, it will allow me to get to a "safe" place if need be.
Oh, before I forget I shop at the Publix in Altamonte Springs...why do you ask???

Yesterday, 01:31 AM #45
Jennasis

Many service dogs are trained to sense the onset of seizures, low blood sugar, assist with reaching things/opening doors etc, provide balance to mobility impaired, or to fetch help if the owner becomes lost or incapacitated. They aren't simply for the deaf or blind.

As far as the notion of using them for anxiety/panic...how exactly is their use of a dog problematic for you? These dogs aren't pooping or peeing on floors, jumping on people or slobbering all over. They don't bother anyone, and anyone with an allergy severe enough to be tiggered by the mere presence of an animal should consider getting a big old plastic bubble to live in or never leave home. If it's a fear problem...see my first post. The dogs aren't interested in YOU. I'm afraid of spiders and bees but I deal with it and go outdoors...DAILY even!

Anyway. As to what breed the dog was. It makes ZERO difference. I've seen service dogs of countless breeds (from small to large), even a seeing eye pony! Frankly, the OP could have had NO need for the dog, and the dog could have been in training. I grew up a few towns over from a large seeing eye dog foundation on Long Island and we would see dogs in training with their foster homes all the time, at the mall or grocery store.

Anywho. just tossing my tow cents in.

Jennasis - Exactly !

07-27-2010, 11:56 AM #95
poohlover

Good luck in your goal of therapy work, Newfs are great it in!

Back to the OP's problem...

we must remember that we can't see certain disabilities, that dogs may be ale to assist with. I do think that service dogs are used more these days for different things, such as mobility, seizures and diabetes, that many are not familiar with.

I think it is wonderful that people can have assistance with these medical conditions. There will always be people who take advantage of the system, which brings difficulties to those using it correctly.

Again to the OP, best of luck and hugs to your dog.

Poohlover - Thank you. You are exactly right. The dogs (and other service animals) are being used more frequently now - the medical community is quite amazing in it's advances. This has changed people's lives.

07-27-2010, 02:05 PM #104
lfontaine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robindianne
I'm hoping OP doesn't post the breed or the reason and here's why:
1 - not our business
2 - gives "legitimacy" to people needing an explanation, justification, proof, whatever for something they/we have no right to.

Rock on OP

In our city (not sure if state as well or county) store, restaurant, and business owners are allowed to ask "is that a therapy/guide dog?" and that's it. Don't get to ask for proof, ID, vest on dog/cat/whatever, what it's "for," nothing. As is how it should be

Gee, if she did tell us the breed and service, then more people would be educated on the types of dogs that provide services and what services they can provide, thereby reducing the chance of them approaching someone else doubting that their dog is a service dog or their need for a service dog.

Education is NEVER a bad thing. She's going to rant about someone doubting her dog and her need for it but she won't do anything to educate people about it even when they ask. She can't have it both ways. You can't complain about how stupid someone is and then refuse to educate them when they welcome it.

lfontaine - remind me to block you so that I don't allow your judgemental attitude to affect my day. Wow - --how can you say that I don't do anything about educating people when they ask? Read my posts again. I do educate people. I don't however choose to stop everything I am doing at the drop of a hat to justify my situation to any confrontational person I encounter - thank goodness, I seldom encounter people like that. I did not say that the woman was stupid. I said she was mean and confrontational and you have now taken up enough of my time tonight. Sleep well !!

Phorsenuf - pls read my post again ( notice that you neglected to HIGHLIGHT where I continued that same sentence..."but would prefer instead to angrily confront store patrons". and I will try to clarify - People DO need to make an effort to educate themselves to some degree and I will disagree if you feel that it is MY job to educate a woman who approaches another human being in that manner in a public place. I have NO obligation to calm her down, talk her down, or educate her. We have often made the effort to educate people - and it is done regularly, maybe I did not make that clear.

07-27-2010, 07:02 PM #121
golfgal

Ok, I will say it, my guess is the "service" dog isn't a service dog since the OP doesn't want to educate us.
__________________

Whatever ! Wow......these types of comments are why I don't post that often on these boards. Bring on the pitchforks.

07-27-2010, 08:29 PM #123
lillygator

my bets are on the mini dach....and was it posted the service provided? Now I am just curious more than ever. I am in Publix almost daily and I really don't want animals around my food. I would have been thinking, what the heck but I doubt I would have said anything to the manager.
__________________

[/B

You need to understand that service dogs are legally allowed full access to anywhere that the public is allowed. They are expected to maintain an even temperament and not cause a disruption. If you don't want them "around your food" - write to your state rep - maybe you can get the ADA law amended so those who are legally allowed the use of a service dog are forced to shop in special stores away from your food...honestly. I shouldn't even have to answer that post.