Mini-Rant - Service Dog Issue

[donaldduck352]

I am blind but I DO know how bad axiety can be, it can rip you from your family your social life and cut you off from the world. It can turn me into a reclusive person that doesn't care if we have food in the house because I havn't made it to the store or one that misses their kids special events because the anxiety and panic attacks are so bad.. I h

I am in therapy, doing breathing exercises and on a high dose of anti anxiety meds 4mgs xanax a day, so yes I DO GET IT I have to dogs both labs that I adore but no taking them into a store with me wil not lessen my anxiety and sitting at home with them doesn't either. I have a big red quitle that has holes in it so bad from pottery barn. My kids know if a subject like my cousin and her kids getting in a huge rollover accident or my other cousin jumping out of a moving car and dying that they need to get me laid down and with that blanket as it calms me. Does that mean I take it with me places? HELL no, its not approprite. Neither is a service dog for anxiety issues. Take yout meds, go to therapy bteathe deep. if those don't work for you have someone else pick up the groceries. I have had that happen to me before.

As far as hidden disabilities and the pllaquard anyone that wants to battle me over the fact I can sort of see is going to get educated fast. I can get lost in a grocery store or anywhere even feet away from my family. I need to be close to teh store to even get in it. I can do some of it alone but when the grocery stores rearrange things I can't just getting in the door those days is an accomplishment for me never mind getting back into the safety of my car as fast as possibe.

Monique,please don't get me wrong.This is not what I wanted at all.You have disabilties alot more then mine,for sure.I really think dogs have a sixth sence that Dr's still don't understand.That is all I'm trying too say.You are a strong person dealing with what god dealt you!

But please understand where I'm comming from.Our family is a foster home for rescued -pitbulls-and too see the breed at work has brought alot of joy to my life.I take Zuess,110RedNose Pit everywere I go.When we 1'st got her she was a junkyard dog.Now,after 3months,she is the biggest lap dog you will ever find.She was just dealt the wrong hand since a pup and now she is everyones best friend.She is on the list as a service dog now.

Please eveyone,don't think a dog at a store,restruant or clothes store is out to get ya.They serve a purpose,bieng small or large,for alot of people!

 

[MoniqueU]

Monique,please don't get me wrong.This is not what I wanted at all.You have disabilties alot more then mine,for sure.I really think dogs have a sixth sence that Dr's still don't understand.That is all I'm trying too say.You are a strong person dealing with what god dealt you!

But please understand where I'm comming from.Our family is a foster home for rescued -pitbulls-and too see the breed at work has brought alot of joy to my life.I take Zuess,110RedNose Pit everywere I go.When we 1'st got her she was a junkyard dog.Now,after 3months,she is the biggest lap dog you will ever find.She was just dealt the wrong hand since a pup and now she is everyones best friend.She is on the list as a service dog now.

Please eveyone,don't think a dog at a store,restruant or clothes store is out to get ya.They serve a purpose,bieng small or large,for alot of people!

I simply just disagree not based on the breed of the animal but for the need to use him for anxiety which has been effectivly treated by other means. i had to switch practices til I found someone willing to help me with my problem of severe anxiety. I suggest you seek a new dr if this one isn't wprking for you. A servoce dpg IMHO should be reserved for people with physical limitations not psycological reasons tht can be treated in other means. I agree with a PP that amy amxiety that an individual may feel does not trump the person in the store that is affraid of dogs. What should they get to carry a taer to keep the dog away from them when they panic, after al their fear is real so they should be givem s al things to help them. Meedomg a servoce amo,a; becaise pf beomg blind or deaf is diffent from anxiet that can be fiixed in other ways which most vision and hearing loss can't/ Two things that don't even belong in the same category. JMHO

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

There is some question as to whether or not dogs for anxiety, or other psychological/social disorder would qualify. A Service Dog is defined in the Americans With Disabilities Act as:

"any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including but not limited to guiding individuals with impaired vision, alerting individuals with impaired hearing to intruders or sounds, providing minimal protection or rescue work, pulling a
wheelchair, or fetching dropped items."

Many psychological/social disorders (and accompaning anxiety/panic) rise to the level of "disability". State law notwithstanding, federal law remains unclear.

Interesting. I have always heard it stated that anxiety dogs/emotional support dogs are not service dogs. To be afforded protection under the law, the dogs are supposed to be professionally trained, correct? So the example of the pit bull above would not meet the legal standard for a service dog.

 

[bumbershoot]

Any stores or restaurant has the right to ask a dog who is being disruptive to leave regardless of its service dog status (so in the case of the yappy yorkie, the restaurant would have had every right to ask that dog to leave.)
.

Exactly. Your restaurant thought is just like in my living situation, once they had enough documented problems with the "service" dog, they could have said "Blue goes or you all go", just like would have happened if the woman's boyfriend had caused problems. The service dog is to be seen as another human...no pet fee at an apartment, no breed restrictions, but if they are up to no good, they can be kicked out.

The federal exception for service animals was essentially saying, "yes, we acknowledge that it most cases animals should not be in public places, but in very specific circumstances, the individual's needs for access will trump those prohibitions." Part of the trade-off was the notion that the animals were well trained and managed by their owners. They were trained not to bark, bite, or run away. They were trained to wait to go the bathroom only at certain times.

But none of that is actually mandated.

I don't mind. But invisible disabilities require a special tag or placard to use that designated parking space. They can't use it just because they determine they need it, even if that reason is legitamite...even id their doctor verbally agrees. They still must obtain the visible credentials on their car that validate the claim.

I have met therapy and service dogs. I have no doubts that what they provide is very real.

I do have my doubts on any unlabeled animal. Just like I have my doubts on any unlabeled car parked in a disabled parking spot.

This is why I am in favor in something as simple as a
tag on a dog. Something that clearly identifies the pet is legitimately in a public place that pets are not customarily permitted.

I can't describe it as well as someone from the disabilities forum said it, but there's a difference between having a service animal to try to have as "normal" a life as possible, vs getting something *extra* like a close parking space. The close parking spaces are not part of having a life like anyone else's, which is why the placards are required.

There is NO mandate that service animals have ID or vests or any of that. Many people do get them, but it's not required. And I'm sure that for some people getting a vest for their animal would be difficult financially (especially since taking care of an animal isn't cheap!), which would be putting another roadblock into helping that person have a life like other people.

The lady had no reason to be frustrated, she should have been minding her own business. It's only up to the store's employees to be concerned about whether or not it is a service animal. They questioned her and were satisfied by her answer obviously.

Exactly.

ALL service dogs I have seen in the stores have had a vest of some type identifying them as a service dogs, the only ones are guide dogs and it is quite obvious that they are guide dogs.

But it's not mandated.




There have been a couple examples in here where some here don't think something is appropriate. I don't think it's fair to put your OWN feelings onto another person.

So one person has a hearing loss and muscles his way through it, not needing help at all. Terrific! I don't think they have the right to say "well that other guy at the sporting good store is just lying" because some other person DOES feel like they need the help. Maybe one person is scared and the other isn't; hearing loss isn't fun. And from the Q&A section about service animals on the ADA site:

But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:

_ Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.

Now I don't know the full story on animals for anxiety, so don't consider this part of the the Service Animal discussion, but I also think it's not really right for one person to say that another person isn't allowed to use an animal for it, just b/c the one doesn't use one.

I mean, I consider the use of anti-anxiety drugs to be quite frightening, those things are powerful and strong and can have BIG side effects (and that is IF they work on the individual to begin with), and I can't imagine a day where I would take one (and I've been dealing with NASTY driving anxiety since a trip to Montana in a VW Bug back in '02, and it's just now starting to lift). For me, my own occasional (but bad when they show up) allergies would preclude me from having an animal for the anxiety, so obviously I've had to find other ways of dealing with my fears and feelings. I wouldn't want you to tell me "oh you can't use Rescue Remedy b/c I don't use it", and I don't think it's right for people to say "having your cat doesn't help, it's just an excuse", when obviously the person feels the animal IS working for him/her.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

Monique,please don't get me wrong.This is not what I wanted at all.You have disabilties alot more then mine,for sure.I really think dogs have a sixth sence that Dr's still don't understand.That is all I'm trying too say.You are a strong person dealing with what god dealt you!

But please understand where I'm comming from.Our family is a foster home for rescued -pitbulls-and too see the breed at work has brought alot of joy to my life.I take Zuess,110RedNose Pit everywere I go.When we 1'st got her she was a junkyard dog.Now,after 3months,she is the biggest lap dog you will ever find.She was just dealt the wrong hand since a pup and now she is everyones best friend.She is on the list as a service dog now.

Please eveyone,don't think a dog at a store,restruant or clothes store is out to get ya.They serve a purpose,bieng small or large,for alot of people!

What list? Do you mean state certification? I have never heard of a service dog list. Has your dog had any professional training? I'm sorry, but I don't think your dog should be allowed. True service dogs are very carefully screened for temperament and their training starts from the time they are very young and takes a long time. This is to ensure the safety of the owners and the public. It sounds like, based on your description, that is not the case here. I am not trying to belittle what you go through with your anxiety, but it sounds like based on your posts that you simply found a dog you liked and decided it calmed you, therefore it is a service dog. You are putting yourself, and every establishment you enter, at a huge liability should your dog one day attack. At 110 lbs, that is a very large dog and could be difficult to control. I have nothing against pit bulls, but I would not want to be anywhere near your dog in a public place that dogs are not normally allowed unless it had been trained by a professional organization for service dogs.

 

[funkychunkymonkey]

I don't think I have ever heard of a service cat. The only service my cat can provide is leaving black globs of hair everywhere for me to clean up..

My cat can tell before I know when Im going to have a sugar low, Not that my tiny cat can do much. Were working on batting the tube of sugar pills over but he hasnt gotten the fact that its NOT his toy

 

[wwithers]

Interesting. I have always heard it stated that anxiety dogs/emotional support dogs are not service dogs. To be afforded protection under the law, the dogs are supposed to be professionally trained, correct? So the example of the pit bull above would not meet the legal standard for a service dog.

I would have to go look to be sure but if memory serves, there is no mandate for professional training in the ADA section dealing w/service animals.

 

[wwithers]

As far as tags/vests go, they can be bought by anyone on the internet. Their presence, or lack thereof, is legally meaningless. Further, by law it is illegal to ask for/require documentation that an animal is, indeed, a service animal.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I found this quote on Service Dog Central, a website that details the ins and outs of service dog law:

In order to be a service dog, the animal must be "individually trained" to "perform one or more tasks which mitigate the disability."

The following do NOT count as trained tasks:

-protection
-emotional support
-companionship (even for agoraphobia or anxiety)

It sounds like a dog for a disoder such as anxiety would have to be trained to perform specific tasks. (one website mentioned nudging a person who is in a dissociative state to bring them out of it.

ETA:

On July 23, there was a change in wording of the service dog law that goes into effect in January. Under the law:

The crime deterrent effects of an animal´s presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition." -- 28 CFR Part 36

What the law says business owners may legally ask:

A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal

 

[Planogirl]

It's been a while since we've had a dogs in public thread.

I'm still mulling over what service a service cat can perform. In the links I just saw people carrying around cats because they felt anxious. I don't see that the cats were actually doing anything so does this truly define service?

If cats become prevalent in public, the howls will really be loud. There are a lot of people who are quite allergic to cats. People have been pretty much ignoring those with dog allergies so it'll be interesting to see if those with cats allergies are treated in the same manner.

 

[wwithers]

There is a difference between providing emotional support and mitigating a disability. General anxiety would not rise to the definition of a disability but a severe anxiety disorder (or other psychological order) possibly could, especially when expressed in severe physical symptoms that are life altering. There is every possibility that an animal could signal an impending attack in much the same way as they signal a coming seizure or drop in blood sugar.

Remember, that much the same as with employment laws regarding disability, just because is isn't explicitly laid out doesn't mean it is not a disability, it likely just means no one has filed a complaint or sued over it.

The big point here is the judgement by many about what other people may, or may not require to make it through life. "I would never do that," or "how dare they!" is the knee jerk reaction rather than wondering what bad circumstance has led a person to a place you do not, and often cannot understand. And you should thank God (or whomever/whatever else) for that instead of *****ing that any one person is trying to pull one over.

Are there people who cheat? Sure. But I would suspect that, just as with other things in life, the cheaters are actually few in number and what you SEE is not always what IS.

Show a little freakin' compassion or, if you can't do that then turn and walk the other way; but remember, someday it may be you that needs compassion and understanding. Will you find it? Or will you expect the same knee jerk attitude shown by many here?

 

[Disneyadore]

I'll get flamed for this, but here goes....

The "I need a service dog/cat/lizard/whatever to calm my nerves and keep me from being too anxious" is beyond the pale for me. Simply too freaking much. For every nerve of yours that the animal calms, it agitates the nerves of at least one other person, and possibly the nerves of many.

Having a service animal because you lack sight, etc. is one thing. But because you are too anxiety ridden? Come on! So you take Brutus out with you so you can stay nice and calm....Never mind that 3 kids and an old lady just had to leave the store because they're scared crapless of dogs?

Woman Can’t Take Her Pet Monkey to Restaurants, Federal Judge Rules



A Missouri woman has lost her legal bid to have her monkey, Richard, accompany her to restaurants and other business establishments.

Richard is a pet, not a service animal to the disabled, U.S. District Judge Richard Dorr ruled Wednesday, and his owner, Debby Rose, is not disabled under the Americans with Disabilities Act, reports the News-Leader. Hence he granted a summary judgment motion by the defendants seeking the dismissal of the case.

Claiming that she needs Richard, a 10-year-old Bonnet Macaque monkey, to help her deal with her anxiety and agoraphobia, Rose sued the Springfield-Greene County Health Department, Cox Health Systems and Wal-Mart Supercenter. She contended that the defendants had interfered with her ability to take the service animal with her on her daily activities—as she would have a right to do if he qualified as a service animal under the ADA.

The health department, explains Dorr in his written opinion, investigated after receiving several complaints about Richard's presence in restaurants and determined that he was not a service animal. The department then sent letters to local businesses instructing them that Richard was a public health threat and should not be admitted; citing the letter, Wal-Mart refused to let Rose enter with the monkey. A similar situation occurred at a Cox Health Systems facility, where Rose was taking classes.

Despite her claimed disability, Rose has been personally and professionally successful for decades, Dorr writes, marrying, raising six children and working outside her home. "While the court does not doubt that the monkey provides plaintiff with a sense of comfort and helps her cope with any anxiety she may have, the ADA requires more for an animal to qualify as a service animal."


Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/mo._woman_cant_take_her_pet_monkey_to_restaurants_federal_judge_rules/

 

[EMom]

Woman Can’t Take Her Pet Monkey to Restaurants, Federal Judge Rules



A Missouri woman has lost her legal bid to have her monkey, Richard, accompany her to restaurants and other business establishments.

Richard is a pet, not a service animal to the disabled, U.S. District Judge Richard Dorr ruled Wednesday, and his owner, Debby Rose, is not disabled under the Americans with Disabilities Act, reports the News-Leader. Hence he granted a summary judgment motion by the defendants seeking the dismissal of the case.

Claiming that she needs Richard, a 10-year-old Bonnet Macaque monkey, to help her deal with her anxiety and agoraphobia, Rose sued the Springfield-Greene County Health Department, Cox Health Systems and Wal-Mart Supercenter. She contended that the defendants had interfered with her ability to take the service animal with her on her daily activities—as she would have a right to do if he qualified as a service animal under the ADA.

The health department, explains Dorr in his written opinion, investigated after receiving several complaints about Richard's presence in restaurants and determined that he was not a service animal. The department then sent letters to local businesses instructing them that Richard was a public health threat and should not be admitted; citing the letter, Wal-Mart refused to let Rose enter with the monkey. A similar situation occurred at a Cox Health Systems facility, where Rose was taking classes.

Despite her claimed disability, Rose has been personally and professionally successful for decades, Dorr writes, marrying, raising six children and working outside her home. "While the court does not doubt that the monkey provides plaintiff with a sense of comfort and helps her cope with any anxiety she may have, the ADA requires more for an animal to qualify as a service animal."


Link: http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/mo._woman_cant_take_her_pet_monkey_to_restaurants_federal_judge_rules/

I'll bet cash money that little critter was dressed up to the nines. And the attire was NOT a service animal vest.

 

[mousermerf]

Thought for everyone:

If you suffer from anxiety, which in and of itself is irrational, then why would it be at all logical to follow a person with anxiety's list of "needs" to cope with their anxiety? Wouldn't it be more logical to suggest that their "needs" are just as irrational as their anxiety and thus it is not the responsibility of the general public to cater to their demands?

 

[poohlover]

sunnyday123:

thanks for clarifying how you go about taking your dog out. You had mentioned running into people who were not happy about your dog, I thought wrongly, that you may be taking yours places they were not welcome. My mistake. unfortunately I see it done frequently. As well, the Delta Society sets it in writing very clearly what a therapy dog can and can not do, but again some people take advantage when they can.

Good luck in your goal of therapy work, Newfs are great it in!

Back to the OP's problem...

we must remember that we can't see certain disabilities, that dogs may be ale to assist with. I do think that service dogs are used more these days for different things, such as mobility, seizures and diabetes, that many are not familiar with.

I think it is wonderful that people can have assistance with these medical conditions. There will always be people who take advantage of the system, which brings difficulties to those using it correctly.

Again to the OP, best of luck and hugs to your dog.

 

[Disneyadore]

I'll bet cash money that little critter was dressed up to the nines. And the attire was NOT a service animal vest.

Just wondering what will happen if I show up at a store,restaurant or Disney whit MY "service" animal.








After all under the ADA law nobody is permitted to ask about my disabillety and so I'm entitled to take every animal with me and call it a "service "animal.

 

[RitaE]

Originally Posted by sunnyday123 View Post
I would love to know where everyone is bumping into these hundreds of faux service dogs, I've never seen anything other than a true service dog, and find it really hard to believe everyone is running into the same ill behaved yorkie standing on a table eating from it's owners plate.

And I'm training my dog to be a therapy dog, so anywhere she's allowed, I take her. I've received my share of dirty looks, but she's so big no one had ever approached us.

My last one was on an airplane. Now I'm not exactly sure of the procedure for bringing your service animal on a plane is and I imagine there has to be some sort of regulation about the animal blocking the aisles at least during take-off or landing. I mean, my purse has to be all the way under the seat so I'm sure the dog has its mandated place too.

Anyway, during the flight the dog ended back up in the persons lap. Fine, no problem. Then the leash comes off the dog and it hops down and starts pattering its way up and down the aisles and darting amongst peoples legs.

Some thought it was adorable, some were pissed.

The dog was obviously not well trained.

I have no problem with service dogs. I do have a problem with people passing their pets off as service dogs and then wanting to take them everywhere. I don't know what you have or have not seen but it is something I've seen 4 or 5 times in the past year myself and it seems to be getting more common. Mostly women with their adorable little yappy dogs that are dressed up as a fashion accessory.

So do I think there is a need for businesses to be allowed to question about personal medical conditions that require the animal? No. Would I be opposed to an official certification program that would be required before the animal is allowed in public areas that otherwise forbid pets? No.

 

[Green Tea]

Just wondering what will happen if I show up at a store,restaurant or Disney whit MY "service" animal.

That is just a really unfortunate pictoral placement of the snake.

Carry on.

 

[CF'er]

A true service dog has had training and are VERY well behaved in public... probably better than most kids. A service dog should not be running all around out of control. When I took DD to see Eclipse there was a service dog there. It had on a vest and was calmly laying down beside it's owner. It was a Great Dane... very beautiful. The owner was very friendly and was talking to the people between us about the dog. They were allowed to pet it etc. But at no time if you hadn't seen the dog would you have known it was there. I bet it was Team Jacob btw.

 

[jrmasm]

I would have to go look to be sure but if memory serves, there is no mandate for professional training in the ADA section dealing w/service animals.

There damn well should be.

A little common sense goes a long way.