Mind if I ask a question?

[jjjmranch]

I have ridden on HM and told the teenaged girls to stop screaming because we can't hear Madame Leota's spiel. You could have done the same to someone riding on your boat on POTC. People can be rude regardless of orientation, gender, whatever. I will explain to my children (ages 8 and 6) that we should be so happy we live in a country where you don't get shot or imprisoned for wearing a silly t-shirt or expressing your personal opinon.

 

[Tommy_B]

I have ridden on HM and told the teenaged girls to stop screaming because we can't hear Madame Leota's spiel. You could have done the same to someone riding on your boat on POTC. People can be rude regardless of orientation, gender, whatever. I will explain to my children (ages 8 and 6) that we should be so happy we live in a country where you don't get shot or imprisoned for wearing a silly t-shirt or expressing your personal opinon.

Ah, so I should have to tell gay people how to behave around children? What is and is not appropriate?

Yes people can be rude regardless of all the variables, but how is it I have never witnessed the behavior on Pirates other than Gay Days?

Silly and lewd are different things. Singing lewd songs is hardly the free speech the founders envisioned and it isn't expressing anything other than a disregard for others.

 

[rosiep]

Do you hold the hetro community to the same standards? Are you outraged that the examples we see of straight men cheat on their wives multiple times? (Tiger Woods, Jessie James, etc???) Do you feel ashamed explaining THAT behavior to your children?

As for Hooters, I grant you that the individual establishment may be family friendly, but surely you realize that from it's onset the restaurant capitalized on it's use of slang for female breasts.

Denying that, AND denying the fact that the Crabs t-shirts also cash in on it's lewd double entendre is what makes your post so ridiculous.

 

[C&G'sMama]

I've seen all kinds of people behave in ways that I deem inappropriate. If you don't want your kids exposed to the world then stay home! No matter where you go you are going to see people behavning in a way YOU deem inappropriate. So if I a straight couple kissing at the World should I ask for my money back for exposing my children to such decadence. Get over yourself. Ughh!!!

 

[NHdisneylover]

Ah, so I should have to tell gay people how to behave around children? What is and is not appropriate?

Yes people can be rude regardless of all the variables, but how is it I have never witnessed the behavior on Pirates other than Gay Days?

Silly and lewd are different things. Singing lewd songs is hardly the free speech the founders envisioned and it isn't expressing anything other than a disregard for others.

If you are stuck next to anyone being truly rude and inappropriate (like screaming on a ride, making loud lewd comments on a kids' ride, etc) you are certainly within your rights to say something. The point is that there are some rude people that crop up from time to time. They are not always gay. In fact, they are rarely homosexual. Most gay people (like most straight people, or most teens, or most men or whatever other way you want to group people) are nice, polite people who just go about their business. So complain about rude and loud PEOPLE on PoC--but don't add the "gay" to the complaint because then you just make your complaint into nothing more than a prejudiced comment which should not be taken seriously.
Likewise--the OP saw 10-12 innappropriate shirts on a day when thousands of LGBT people and their friends and family were at the park and in shirts. That is a tiny percentage of people being inappropriate. Not more than on any typical day with any typical grouping of people in the parks. So why call it out as a gay issue?

And, yes the reason people buy the Dirty Dicks crab shirts is because of the double entendre. I don't really care one way or the other about them, but anyone older than about 10 with any kind of sense knows there is more to the shirts than just buying seafood. You really weaken any argument you may have when you are deliberatly so obtuse.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Sorry, but there are so many crazy responses here I hardly know where to start.
There are no crazy responses here. There are opinions of people, some of which are sensible, logical and based on a world view of diversity, and some from a point of view that is close minded. But none are crazy.
First, Hooters is just a restaurant with a gimmick and nothing more. I doubt that those most vocal about Hooters have ever been to a Hooters. The waitresses are just cute young gals in t-shirts and shorts. I've never heard of an age limit in any U.S. location. You don't have to be big chested to work there, many of the waitresses are not, they just have these fun personalities. There is nothing at all that sexualizes women in the restaurants.
This is an ignorant, deliberately disingenuous statement. Hooters is street slang for breast. That the general waitress uniform features skin tight tanks, tied in a manner to accentuate the breasts as a sexual object, is sexualizing. That you are claiming not to understand that points to a lack of insight.
Second, instead of people saying "gee it's too bad you were exposed to inappropriate t-shirts" (which you know are there if you've ever been to a Gay Days, along with inappropriate behavior) there was a wailing and gnashing of teeth, "straight people do it too!" Everybody else does it is never a justification.
No wailing and our teeth are fine thanks. The point that was being made, and quite well thank you, is that the sayings on tshirts can be offensive to anyone, depending on their personal point of view. Again, deliberately refusing to acknowledge the sexual overtness in the saying of some tshirts worn by teen, and heterosexuals does nothing to support the position you are presenting. In fact, it turns the allegations you are making right back on you.
Third, the way to sway public opinion in favor of supporting gay civil rights is not to get in people's faces and go out of your way to offend or shock them.
Yes, that is such a comprehensively good statement. I'm sure Martin Luther King, Junior, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandella, Jane Adams, et all all agree with that statement. When your civil liberties are less than the next person's, lets see you not "get in anyone's face." I had the displeasure of being on Pirates with a boat of about half gay and half families. The gay men who were all together were loud and disruptive the entire ride, from loud sexual jokes at the characters to singing a lewd version of the song. In the 43 years I've been riding Pirates, I've never, ever had that experience on a day that wasn't Gay Day and I've seen on Gay Day three separate times. And don't get me started on what I observed on Small World.
And we were on POC, and had the entire experience ruined by three heterosexual women with cameras and flashes. Your point? There are rude people everywhere. Speak up and ask them to stop, or not. Request another go on the attraction from a cast member (which we have done) and explain why... it's all down to what you do with yourself, not what others do.
It is wrong to wear offensive, sexually charged t-shirts at any time. "I got crabs from Dirty D1ck's" isn't dirty unless you have a dirty mind as everyone understands Dirty D1ck's is a crab restaurant.
One more time, deliberately refusing to acknowledge the sexually charged content only makes this statement silly. When I first saw the tshirt about crabs and dirty dicks, I didn't know it was a restaurant! Did I figure it out? Of course, but it made it no less offensive from my point of view.
I think the burden is even higher for the gay community. How about holding a Gay Days and just dress the way you do every day and shock people with how normal and ordinary the gay community is.

Why is the burden higher, because you don't understand the gay culture? We do have gay days every day thanks. We live it. Come back and talk when you are able to understand cultural relevance versus the internalization of oppression. Until then, your comments are reduced to little more than insults. Those we get enough of every day in real life too thanks. Don't need them here.

 

[Alesia]

Yes, that is such a comprehensively good statement. I'm sure Martin Luther King, Junior, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandella, Jane Adams, et all all agree with that statement. When your civil liberties are less than the next person's, lets see you not "get in anyone's face."

I am all for everyone in this country having the same rights. Period. Black, white, straight, gay - whatever. But to equate wearing a sexually suggestive t-shirt to Disney World to what Martin Luther King Junior, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela, or Jane Adams did is offensive. I can't imagine any one of them wearing offensive shirts to get their messages across. I'm all for activism, but the way to change peoples minds is to help them see the error of their ways, not to help bolster their already bigoted opinions.

Things will never change until the vast majority of heterosexual people understand that gay people are just like everyone else. The sad fact is, there are plenty of people who still think that gay men are just sex-crazed perverts and a danger to straight men and children everywhere. Wearing lewd, sexually explicit t-shirts only strengthens that opinion.

Do gay people have the right to wear shirts that others find offensive? Of course they do. But don't equate it with the great works done by Martin Luther King Junior, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela, Jane Adams, or any of the other great people who have succeeded in changing the minds and hearts of others.

Is it fair that one gay man wearing an offensive t-shirt gets singled out in people's minds while a whole sea of straight people in offensives shirts can go by unnoticed? No, it isn't. Not at all. But unfortunately, people often see the things that reinforce what they already believe to be true.



On another note: I've never understood why a restaurant would want to conjure up images of venereal disease. Double entendre or not, it's just unappealing.

 

[jjjmranch]

To me, life is too short to worry about what is on other people's t-shirts. I've asked gangbangers to watch their language in front of my children and they've complied. All you have to do is ask someone nicely to respect others whether you're in a movie theater or on a ride. If you keep quiet and let it fester inside you so you can rant later, that's your problem.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

I am all for everyone in this country having the same rights. Period. Black, white, straight, gay - whatever. But to equate wearing a sexually suggestive t-shirt to Disney World to what Martin Luther King Junior, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela, or Jane Adams did is offensive. I can't imagine any one of them wearing offensive shirts to get their messages across. I'm all for activism, but the way to change peoples minds is to help them see the error of their ways, not to help bolster their already bigoted opinions.

Things will never change until the vast majority of heterosexual people understand that gay people are just like everyone else. The sad fact is, there are plenty of people who still think that gay men are just sex-crazed perverts and a danger to straight men and children everywhere. Wearing lewd, sexually explicit t-shirts only strengthens that opinion.

Do gay people have the right to wear shirts that others find offensive? Of course they do. But don't equate it with the great works done by Martin Luther King Junior, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandela, Jane Adams, or any of the other great people who have succeeded in changing the minds and hearts of others.

Is it fair that one gay man wearing an offensive t-shirt gets singled out in people's minds while a whole sea of straight people in offensives shirts can go by unnoticed? No, it isn't. Not at all. But unfortunately, people often see the things that reinforce what they already believe to be true.



On another note: I've never understood why a restaurant would want to conjure up images of venereal disease. Double entendre or not, it's just unappealing.

Political activism takes the route most effective to the times. Tshirts are not the only way to be politically active, and you are the one thinking that the sexually suggestive ones are what I am referring to.

I am not. Our tshirts were political statements. Those are the only ones I can speak to, as the others were chosen to be worn by other people. They stand by their decisions I'm sure.

And pardon me but gay folk are NOT some version of heterosexuality. So stop thinking that too. We do have our differences, and those should be CELEBRATED instead of being glossed over, just as any other group has its differences between groups.

That's the purpose behind celebrating diversity. Because a single group wishes to have the SAME CIVIL LIBERTIES as another does not mean that they are cut with the same cookie cutter nor want to be.

Alinsky teaches much too. Check it out.

We do what we can do, each to the individual. Each step, each centimeter reaching toward equality is not OFFENSIVE, rather that which we are able to do at the time.

When you can truly join us, do so. Until then, we'll carry on in spite of those who refuse to understand.

Done with this thread now. Mike works too hard to have to deal with this sort of thing.

Sorry O'Mike.

 

[Alesia]

And pardon me but gay folk are NOT some version of heterosexuality. So stop thinking that too. We do have our differences, and those should be CELEBRATED instead of being glossed over, just as any other group has its differences between groups.

That's the purpose behind celebrating diversity. Because a single group wishes to have the SAME CIVIL LIBERTIES as another does not mean that they are cut with the same cookie cutter nor want to be.

Hold on a minute. When I said that people need to understand that gay people are just like everyone else, I didn't mean that they are some "version of heterosexuality." I do realized that there are differences between gays and straights, just as there are differences between men and women, or Latinos and Jews. Clearly there are differences. Those differences exist between all people. I didn't realize that I needed to specify that.

What I meant was that gay people are just regular people: they love their kids. They mow their lawns. They get up and go to work every morning. All of the normal things that everyone does. The sad fact is, and I'm sure you've noticed this, not everyone does realize this. I live right in the middle of the bible belt, where large numbers of people thinks gays are "defective" and need to be fixed. The idea that they are just normal people is completely foreign to them.

 

[Tommy_B]

Do you hold the hetro community to the same standards? Are you outraged that the examples we see of straight men cheat on their wives multiple times? (Tiger Woods, Jessie James, etc???) Do you feel ashamed explaining THAT behavior to your children?

As for Hooters, I grant you that the individual establishment may be family friendly, but surely you realize that from it's onset the restaurant capitalized on it's use of slang for female breasts.

Denying that, AND denying the fact that the Crabs t-shirts also cash in on it's lewd double entendre is what makes your post so ridiculous.

Why is it so hard to say "it is wrong to wear sexually charged, offensive t-shirts on Gay Days"? Why do you go back to "well they do it too!" The question asked was not about what happens every day of the week, but what the OP observed on Gays Days. A simple, "yes, that is wrong, too bad you had to see that" would have made the topic a page topic. Instead you want to be defensive and defend indefensible behavior.

And what does Tiger Woods and Jessie James have to do with offensive t-shirts in Orlando? Why do you throw red herrings into the mix?

Maybe you need to study what double entendre means. It means two meanings, the t-shirts I've seen on Gay Days in Orlando & Anheim are not cute, clever double entendre, they are vulgar at their base with only one meaning and the one meaning is vulgar.

 

[Tommy_B]

I've seen all kinds of people behave in ways that I deem inappropriate. If you don't want your kids exposed to the world then stay home! No matter where you go you are going to see people behavning in a way YOU deem inappropriate. So if I a straight couple kissing at the World should I ask for my money back for exposing my children to such decadence. Get over yourself. Ughh!!!

So I will ask you the same thing. Why is it so hard to say "it is wrong to wear sexually charged, offensive t-shirts on Gay Days"? The question asked was not about a gay couple kissing, but about lewd, offensive t-shirts, saying "yes, that is wrong, too bad you had to see that" would have made the topic a page topic. Instead you want to be defensive and defend indefensible behavior and to veer off the topic of offensive t-shirts on Gay Days and present a straw dog.

 

[Tommy_B]

Alinsky teaches much too. Check it out.

Saul Alinsky, that explains it all.

 

[Sphyrna]

Why is it so hard to say "it is wrong to wear sexually charged, offensive t-shirts on Gay Days"? Why do you go back to "well they do it too!"

The point being made is seeing offensive t-shirts happens every day. I don't see a need to add "on Gay Days" to clarify the statement. It is wrong to wear sexually charged, offensive t-shirts at Disney. Period. It doesn't matter what day it is.

 

[Tommy_B]

The point being made is seeing offensive t-shirts happens every day. I don't see a need to add "on Gay Days" to clarify the statement. It is wrong to wear sexually charged, offensive t-shirts at Disney. Period. It doesn't matter what day it is.

Do you honestly think there are as many offensive, sexually charged t-shirts in any Disney Park on any given day as there are during Gay Days? Have you even been to a Disney Park during Gay Days?

 

[OrlandoMike]

This debate could go on forever, and I think we all know where each other stands on the issue.... So before anyone gets in trouble I'm going to close the thread and ask that we all just agree to disagree....


Mike