Milli Vanilli ... were they treated fairly?

[fly girl]

Yes, I am taking you back to the early 90's. If you were alive and a Gen X'er you know Milli Vanilli. Dh and I just watched the new biopic, "Girl You Know It's True" about their meteoric rise and fall.

Now I am not condoning everything they did, knowing they were lip syncing yet claiming they were the new Elvis or better than Paul McCartney. come on now ...

However, I do have an ounce of empathy for them. In their young 20's, broke, and allured into the world of fame and fortune and not truly understanding the contract they signed. I can't blame them, at least not entirely. Yes, it was a total bait and switch charade. But Rob and Fab took all the wrath, not the producer Frank Farian who was known for doing this. That is the part I feel they really were shafted on. Frank Farian was the true mastermind and took zero heat, and actually repeated it again! He left these two young men for the wolves.

They tried a comeback, but nobody cared. The public already shunned them (including myself.) No question, Rob couldn't sing .. and Fab was just ok. But maybe Rob could've rapped? And autotune was used then, just not as prevalently as today.

I do wonder, if this happened in today's world, would it have been such a scandal? I'm not so sure when you have artist that you know use autotune exclusively.

I think I am more irritated after watching the movie that they were played by Frank Farian, and he suffered nothing. It wasn't fair, imho.

Hopefully another Gen X'er or a late 80's- early 90's music fan can chime in with their thoughts.

 

[Allison]

I think they deserved what they got. They were frauds.

 

[BrianL]

I always felt like, meh, whatever. The music was good! the image was...inconsequential. I really don't know why they didn't just give the guys actually singing a contract. I don't really blame the duo for getting involved, but I would blame the procducers. I'll still rock some Blame it on the Rain now and then though.

 

[fly girl]

I think they deserved what they got. They were frauds.

Fair enough.

I always felt like, meh, whatever. The music was good! the image was...inconsequential. I really don't know why they didn't just give the guys actually singing a contract. I don't really blame the duo for getting involved, but I would blame the procducers. I'll still rock some Blame it on the Rain now and then though.

The music was GOOD! I can still rock out to Milli Vanilli. Ba ba ba ba ba ba baby, don't forget my number!

 

[TiggerTrigger]

I always felt bad for the guys that were actually doing the singing. They weren’t pretty like Rob and Fab, but they were talented and people obviously liked the music. The comeback attempt by Rob and Fab was pointless because it wasn’t their music/performances that made them famous.

 

[fly girl]

I always felt bad for the guys that were actually doing the singing. They weren’t pretty like Rob and Fab, but they were talented and people obviously liked the music.

Agree

 

[Imzadi]

I definitely feel the producer who conceived of the idea and perpetrated the fraud bears equal blame. He is the one that hired the real singers, then didn't give them credit until after it was found out. The Grammy really belongs mostly to them. And he is the one who hired and "cast" Rob and Fab to play the parts. When it was announced that they were nominated for a Grammy, he should have come out with the truth then.

There was another completely fictional group, The Archies, based on the Archie comic books. We all knew that there were real singers behind the animated songs. We didn't care. I still rocked to Sugar, Sugar. That "group" was created by the same guy who created The Monkees, which was supposed to be fictional too, except he let the real actors sing the songs. So, creating fictional groups was around back then. Had the Milli Vanilli producer admitted it, instead of us finding out when a record got stuck and kept playing a section over and over again, we might not have been so furious at Rob and Fab for being duped so long. The DUPING was what we were disappointed and furious about. AND it would have continued had that record not gotten stuck.

 

[NYCgrrl]

Not Gen X but I surely remember them. “Won” tickets to see them at the Meadowlands right after the story hit. Uhhh probably the only person to enter the contest

But yeah they were young and talentless but cute..they fit the genre in a non threatening manner and there is no way they could have gone that far without the puppet master pulling the strings and talking much trash. They were not the only ones out there at the time but they were the ones caught in the full power of the camera lights.. It was a wild time with lots of money to be made mostly behind the screen by people whose names many have no idea who they are/were.

Hope the survivor (think one died- the dancer?) made some money off the film and spent it on more than glittery clothing.

 

[mylilnikita]

I’m watching the documentary as I type.
It was very sad. I thought Rob was so handsome and he seemed to be very tortured before all that went down.


For the fraud aspects: they were just the poster kids for it, they didn’t create the idea. Their proddicer came out unscathed, just to make up another fake group. Clive Davis ( don’t get me started on him)


Every once in awhile one of the songs will be on and I rock out to it still.

Fab seems to have found peace and happiness

 

[_19disnA]

I think they deserved what they got. They were frauds.

I agree was several years ago and don't recall all of the details. But seems they were merely lip syncing to music recorded by others. While others were clearly part of the fraud, they were the performers and couldn't just pretend they didn't realize what they were doing was wrong. No one forced them to agree to that type of contract.

 

[bcla]

There was another completely fictional group, The Archies, based on the Archie comic books. We all knew that there were real singers behind the animated songs. We didn't care. I still rocked to Sugar, Sugar. That "group" was created by the same guy who created The Monkees, which was supposed to be fictional too, except he let the real actors sing the songs. So, creating fictional groups was around back then.

I actually saw one of those musicians at a county fair. I wasn't quite sure who he was, but he was talking about the Archies and then Andy Kim, and I figured out who he was later. But obviously those were a real musicians and not cartoon characters. I looked up more on it, and they called it the "Happy Together Tour" where they were playing lots of county fairs and other venues that summer.

https://bestclassicbands.com/happy-together-tour-2017-1-27-17/

I think there was another one like that even earlier. I remember the albums from "Debbie Deb" in the mid-80s. Apparently they producers used photos of a model on the album covers, but the actual singer was overweight and was afraid to perform in public anyways. I don't think they hired anyone to lip sync though. But a friend of mine loved those songs and thought that it must have been some really hot girl singing.

There's been talk about some frontmen of acts being fake. That's been the case for a long time. You can even go back to City Slickers, where the two guys who own a Ben & Jerry's style ice cream company have apparently hired actors to be the public representation of themselves, only "better looking". Maybe the fictional Bartles & Jaymes?

 

[fla4fun]

I agree was several years ago and don't recall all of the details. But seems they were merely lip syncing to music recorded by others. While others were clearly part of the fraud, they were the performers and couldn't just pretend they didn't realize what they were doing was wrong. No one forced them to agree to that type of contract.

I don’t know a lot of the details about what went on behind the scenes, but I always wondered about a few things. Were they fluent enough in English that they could have read and understood the contract they signed, or did they trust that the producer was telling them the truth? English is my first language and I would be hard pressed to understand the legalese present in many contracts. If you gave me a contract in French, a language I am learning at the moment, I would have no idea what it said and would rely on others to translate it. Sometimes I got the feeling that they knew they were doing the lip synching, but didn’t understand at first when it all blew up what it was they had done wrong. Not in an arrogant way, but in a “I just did what I was supposed to.” way. I think they were duped by the producer and he should have taken most of the blame for what happened.

I do feel bad for the actual singers that they never got the credit they deserved. Hollywood has been pulling the no-credit singing dubs for decades and I don’t think that was fair either. It’s a fairly recent thing to have the singing voice listed in film credits if it is someone other than the actor on screen, and it still doesn’t always happen. There were plenty of singers (in my opinion) who were not conventionally good looking at the time. Surely as popular as the music was they could have found a visual style that worked and allowed the real singers to have that opportunity.

 

[jimmymc]

Not really, but I think the record execs should have gotten more blame and scrutiny than they did. Instead, the two public guys got all the hate.

 

[RedAngie]

Even back then, I believed that the producers and record company executives deserved 99% of the blame for manipulating both the singers and the audiences.

MV were merely hired hands trying to earn a living.

The real villains were quite happy to throw MV to the wolves.

 

[Disneylover99]

I did feel bad for them back then as they became the butt of jokes throughout the 90’s.

If it happened today, it would have been newsworthy for a few days, and people would have moved on. They may have been able to salvage some kind of musical career.

 

[_19disnA]

If someone asks you to sign a contract written in a foreign language you can't read, seems you should engage a lawyer who CAN read it to understand what you are signing. (I have no idea if that was part of the issue here.) What adult signs ANY contract without first reading it???

 

[fly girl]

Not Gen X but I surely remember them. “Won” tickets to see them at the Meadowlands right after the story hit. Uhhh probably the only person to enter the contest

But yeah they were young and talentless but cute..they fit the genre in a non threatening manner and there is no way they could have gone that far without the puppet master pulling the strings and talking much trash. They were not the only ones out there at the time but they were the ones caught in the full power of the camera lights.. It was a wild time with lots of money to be made mostly behind the screen by people whose names many have no idea who they are/were.

Hope the survivor (think one died- the dancer?) made some money off the film and spent it on more than glittery clothing.

They both started off as dancers.

Rob spent his first 4 years in an orphanage. From what I have seen and read, he struggled with that abandonment and craved attention. He had a close relationship with his sister but not really his parents. After they were shunned, his drug use spiraled.

Fab had a difficult childhood too (abuse), but not as bad a Rob. He moved from France to Germany and was homeless before he met Rob. After the jig was up he knew he had to get away from Rob because he didn't want to spiral down the drug abyss. He lives in Amsterdam now and happily married with 4 kids. He has carved out a nice life for himself and actually does perform. He appears very well grounded. Takes accountability, but also recognizes that in his shoes at 20 he signed that contract not having a clue.

I don’t know a lot of the details about what went on behind the scenes, but I always wondered about a few things. Were they fluent enough in English that they could have read and understood the contract they signed, or did they trust that the producer was telling them the truth? English is my first language and I would be hard pressed to understand the legalese present in many contracts. If you gave me a contract in French, a language I am learning at the moment, I would have no idea what it said and would rely on others to translate it. Sometimes I got the feeling that they knew they were doing the lip synching, but didn’t understand at first when it all blew up what it was they had done wrong. Not in an arrogant way, but in a “I just did what I was supposed to.” way. I think they were duped by the producer and he should have taken most of the blame for what happened.

I do feel bad for the actual singers that they never got the credit they deserved. Hollywood has been pulling the no-credit singing dubs for decades and I don’t think that was fair either. It’s a fairly recent thing to have the singing voice listed in film credits if it is someone other than the actor on screen, and it still doesn’t always happen. There were plenty of singers (in my opinion) who were not conventionally good looking at the time. Surely as popular as the music was they could have found a visual style that worked and allowed the real singers to have that opportunity.

They were early 20's when Frank Farian offered them a deal. He gave them cash and had them sign a contract. They were living in a friends garage at the time, so any amount of money to them was big deal. They both say they "signed a pact with the devil" not realizing exactly what they signed. From what I have learned, they didn't realize in the beginning they wouldn't be singing at all.

I thought the concert with the skipping was the end, but apparently it wasn't. That was known, but it was brushed under the rug because behind the scenes producers had a cash cow and fought to keep them relevant. It was only after they won the Grammy (their manager, a rare person behind the scenes that didn't know the secret, entered them into the Recording Academy) and producers wanted a second album. That's when Rob and Fab started fighting to sing. Frank Farian wouldn't have it, and after back and forth arguments he went from his studio in Germany to NYC to disclose the truth. That's when it "hit the fan."

 

[NYCgrrl]

I did feel bad for them back then as they became the butt of jokes throughout the 90’s.

If it happened today, it would have been newsworthy for a few days, and people would have moved on. They may have been able to salvage some kind of musical career.

But but wouldn’t they have to have musical talent?
This is Fab Morvan “singing” live on a German talent show, I think

The nostalgia is strong with that audience.

 

[fly girl]

If someone asks you to sign a contract written in a foreign language you can't read, seems you should engage a lawyer who CAN read it to understand what you are signing. (I have no idea if that was part of the issue here.) What adult signs ANY contract without first reading it???

Because they were poor, in their early 20's, and allured by a well known producer who gave them money and said they were going to be stars.

Was it naive and stupid? Of course! And sadly they weren't the first ones to be duped with notoriously bad contracts.

 

[Disneylover99]

But but wouldn’t they have to have musical talent?

In today’s day and age? I don’t really think so. lol.
But just listening to him now, he sounds okay to me. Not too bad.
And he’s got stage presence.