middle school dance -- girls can't turn down a guy who asks them

[wvjules]

The whole "toxic masculinity" stuff is ridiculous. I don't give a rats behind what people say or think. There isn't anything anyone can say anymore without someone being offended. Go ahead, be offended. That's your right. My right to not give a rats behind.

Love the double standards too. Women are worse than men. Men talk together and say certain things, everyone wants to string them up. Women say the same things and no one cares.

20something at work walks out of the front office. You can't paint her clothes on tighter than her clothes are. Yoga pants you can see everything with. She is very, don't want to say thin, she isn't skinny, but, well, very fit looking. Also very well endowed. Shirt was so tight she had rolls from her tight shirt in her stomach and sides. Walks out of the office and said "hi" to me, continuously louder and louder, making sure I turn and look at her. Of course, she's a woman, it's all good.

Another girl, one of our engineers. Wore pushup bras and always cut the collar of her shirt half way down to the navel section. Always bending over talking to guys sitting at desks. Was bent over practically laying them on one of the guys as he was writing down on a piece of paper. He just happened to lift his head, she's practically in his face with them, and she stands up, huffs, grabs her shirt closed, and reports him to HR. That's perfectly fine behavior for a woman, not ok for him to look up from writing when her parts are swinging above his face.

Stop referring to women as "girls". Not picking on you (but this is a good example) but I see this often. How often to you see a man referred to as a "boy"?

 

[Turn the Page]

Stop referring to women as "girls". Not picking on you (but this is a good example) but I see this often. How often to you see a man referred to as a "boy"?

Yes!!! That has always bothered me. Gal is also irritating.

 

[BLAZEY]

Is it more like a dance, or a gym class? Do they instruct them what dances to do? Is it mandatory to dance each song? Maybe they can make it more random. Heck I’d rather my child dance with someone they didn’t like than get stuck with them on a group project, especially those that get worked on outside of school.

That's what I was wondering. From the article is sounded like a school dance, like the sock hops we had as kids. We used to have them during the school day but the were for fun and we had the options of other activities too, like sports outside and movies in other classrooms, to accommodate that it was a school wide event, and not everyone wanted to dance but still wanted a "fun activity". Then the article mentions square dancing, which I read as those types of dances were taught in PE class and mandatory, but they have minimal contact (maybe a hand hold). The slow dance the young girl was trying to decline, is not being taught in PE class, has much more body contact or potential for it, and either party should have the right to politely decline, and have the decision respected.

 

[tzolkin]

I know very little about this exact situation. I will say that in elementary school, I want to say about 5th grade or so, we were all taught some square dancing. It was during school hours and the entire grade participated. The teachers paired us up with fellow students. I didn't realize being paired up with a fellow student to learn to square dance was contributing to rape culture and violating my autonomy.

I mentioned this in an earlier post and a few others have as well. I have no issue with a teacher pairing kids up for dance lessons in PE class. But, my daughter being told that she is "not allowed to say no" when a boy who makes her uncomfortable asks her to slow dance at a social/fun school dance seems completely different to me.

 

[mrodgers]

Stop referring to women as "girls". Not picking on you (but this is a good example) but I see this often. How often to you see a man referred to as a "boy"?

And there it is. I don't care. It's what I say and is very common. I care more about the spider I am about to kill than this.

In fact, what you say there is what could possibly be the reason I increase my usage of the term "girl".

 

[mjkacmom]

Sometimes you have your own personal reasons not too.
Refusing to dance with someone is not unkind.

Refusing to be a decent human being is not illegal Refusing go dance with someone because they are disabled can be done, refusing to help an elderly woman cross the street can be done, saying no to help a lost little child at the park doesn’t break any laws, not holding the door open for someone on crutches won’t get you arrested...

However, I think some folks should invest in some new reading material. https://www.target.com/p/don-t-be-a...Vw7TtCh3r7wWJEAQYASABEgJThfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[luvsJack]

There’s a difference between being randomly being paired up for a lesson in PE class and being REQUIRED to say “yes” when asked to dance at a school dance. They’re claiming the dance was part of the school curriculum but it was still a dance and not a class. There’s no mention of a lesson. It absolutely does contribute to rape culture and violate autonomy. NO child (or adult for that matter) should be forced to say “yes” to something they do not want to do for whatever reason.

So is pairing them up to work on a project contributing to rape culture? Sometimes I think we go from extreme to extreme. There has to be a happy medium.

If a girl is choosing to say "no" because of petty reasons, like the boy is "ugly" or the boy is "weird"(not perverted just not like the other boys)---that girl needs to learn compassion and needs to learn that sometimes you just need to be nice. But she also needs to know if said boy says or does anything inappropriate, its ok to walk away in that moment. And that there is a difference in saying "yes" to a dance on a gym floor in front of a bunch of adults and not being able to say no to sex. A HUGE difference. Can our girls not understand that? (and you can reverse girl/boy in any of that statement)

Boys and girls need to know what is and isn't appropriate in the ways they act around and toward each other.

I just think our boys and our girls need a lot more teaching on this subject than whether or not its ok to say no or not.

 

[mjkacmom]

And there it is. I don't care. It's what I say and is very common. I care more about the spider I am about to kill than this.

In fact, what you say there is what could possibly be the reason I increase my usage of the term "girl".

I think you are very common.

 

[wvjules]

And there it is. I don't care. It's what I say and is very common. I care more about the spider I am about to kill than this.

In fact, what you say there is what could possibly be the reason I increase my usage of the term "girl".

That's mature.

I think you are very common.

Common or not, it's still a pet peeve of mine.

 

[luvsJack]

Stop referring to women as "girls". Not picking on you (but this is a good example) but I see this often. How often to you see a man referred to as a "boy"?

Speak for yourself! I don't have an issue at all being called a "girl". Makes me feel young.

 

[ellbellthomps]

I am not a Mom, but I am positive that if I was I would make sure my daughter/son says no to whatever they are uncomfortable with.
I'd encourage my kid to say yes and dance if they are comfortable.

 

[PollyannaMom]

NO child (or adult for that matter) should be forced to say “yes” to something they do not want to do for whatever reason.

Well I wouldn't go so far as to say "something they do not want to do for whatever reason" (because then they'll all be telling me they simply don't want to do the math homework ) I definitely agree that this policy goes too far!

No one should be forced to accept an invitation - whether it's to dance, be partners on a project, or play at recess. I'm all for teaching compassion and inspiring kindness, but if it's forced, it's not compassion or kindness. It will just be resented, and we're not solving anything, only changing who's uncomfortable.

 

[Hikergirl]

Refusing to be a decent human being is not illegal Refusing go dance with someone because they are disabled can be done, refusing to help an elderly woman cross the street can be done, saying no to help a lost little child at the park doesn’t break any laws, not holding the door open for someone on crutches won’t get you arrested...

However, I think some folks should invest in some new reading material. https://www.target.com/p/don-t-be-a-dick-by-mark-b-borg-jr-paperback/-/A-76442249?ref=tgt_adv_XS000000&AFID=google_pla_df&fndsrc=tgtao&CPNG=PLA_Entertainment+Shopping&adgroup=SC_Entertainment&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=c&location=9003551&ds_rl=1246978&ds_rl=1248099&ds_rl=1246978&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIi_bKg_j05wIVw7TtCh3r7wWJEAQYASABEgJThfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Well I consider people who force others to do things they don't want to, to be the biggest ****s of them all.
So yes, if a girl doesn't want to dance with a boy because he is disabled, she shouldn't be guilted by the "kindness brigade" to do so.
Didn't you say the mom said she was drooled on? That is a good enough reason to refuse IMO.

And stop with the strawman arguments, nobody here is talking about helping an elderly person across the street. We are talking about children not having to be forced to let other children put their hands on them. But hey if you don't have any valid points as to why that isn't wrong go ahead and keep moving those goalposts.

 

[wvjules]

Speak for yourself! I don't have an issue at all being called a "girl". Makes me feel young.

I'm several decades away from being a "girl". lol

 

[mrodgers]

Speak for yourself! I don't have an issue at all being called a "girl". Makes me feel young.

Aren't all you girls suppose to stick together? The whole movement and all?

 

[Hikergirl]

So is pairing them up to work on a project contributing to rape culture? Sometimes I think we go from extreme to extreme. There has to be a happy medium.

If a girl is choosing to say "no" because of petty reasons, like the boy is "ugly" or the boy is "weird"(not perverted just not like the other boys)---that girl needs to learn compassion and needs to learn that sometimes you just need to be nice. But she also needs to know if said boy says or does anything inappropriate, its ok to walk away in that moment. And that there is a difference in saying "yes" to a dance on a gym floor in front of a bunch of adults and not being able to say no to sex. A HUGE difference. Can our girls not understand that? (and you can reverse girl/boy in any of that statement)

Boys and girls need to know what is and isn't appropriate in the ways they act around and toward each other.

I just think our boys and our girls need a lot more teaching on this subject than whether or not its ok to say no or not.

I'd rather my daughter trust her instincts over being forced to learn compassion. If there is something off about a kid, and whether my daughter feels its because of his looks or he's weird, and she refuses a dance then good for her. More girls should be like that and less should show compassion if means allowing someone who makes them feel uncomfortable to touch them.
Telling a girl to learn compassion is something a creepy uncle would say to get his way.

 

[luvsJack]

Aren't all you girls suppose to stick together? The whole movement and all?

Nope, not even close. There are some things that I feel strongly about in the equality of the sexes but being called "girl" or "gal" is like so far down the list they don't even matter. Way bigger fish to fry, imho.

 

[wenrob]

So is pairing them up to work on a project contributing to rape culture? Sometimes I think we go from extreme to extreme. There has to be a happy medium.

If a girl is choosing to say "no" because of petty reasons, like the boy is "ugly" or the boy is "weird"(not perverted just not like the other boys)---that girl needs to learn compassion and needs to learn that sometimes you just need to be nice. But she also needs to know if said boy says or does anything inappropriate, its ok to walk away in that moment. And that there is a difference in saying "yes" to a dance on a gym floor in front of a bunch of adults and not being able to say no to sex. A HUGE difference. Can our girls not understand that? (and you can reverse girl/boy in any of that statement)

Boys and girls need to know what is and isn't appropriate in the ways they act around and toward each other.

I just think our boys and our girls need a lot more teaching on this subject than whether or not its ok to say no or not.

If you read my post that you quoted no, being paired for a class project is not rape culture. Having to say ‘yes’ to a slow dance so a kids ego doesn’t get bruised IS. I believe kids need to learn compassion but teaching kids, in particular girls, that they MUST say yes to something they’re uncomfortable with just to be nice sends a dangerous message. There are far better ways to do it.

 

[luvsJack]

I'd rather my daughter trust her instincts over learning compassion. If there is something off about a kid, and whether my daughter feels its because of his looks or he's weird, and she refuses a dance then good for her.

And that statement right there is why the amount of compassion people have for others decreases with each generation.

If your daughter won't dance, talk, walk with someone because of his looks that is way too shallow for words.

 

[BLAZEY]

So is pairing them up to work on a project contributing to rape culture? Sometimes I think we go from extreme to extreme. There has to be a happy medium.

If a girl is choosing to say "no" because of petty reasons, like the boy is "ugly" or the boy is "weird"(not perverted just not like the other boys)---that girl needs to learn compassion and needs to learn that sometimes you just need to be nice. But she also needs to know if said boy says or does anything inappropriate, its ok to walk away in that moment. And that there is a difference in saying "yes" to a dance on a gym floor in front of a bunch of adults and not being able to say no to sex. A HUGE difference. Can our girls not understand that? (and you can reverse girl/boy in any of that statement)

Boys and girls need to know what is and isn't appropriate in the ways they act around and toward each other.

I just think our boys and our girls need a lot more teaching on this subject than whether or not its ok to say no or not.

There is a HUGE difference between working on project in a group setting/ squared dance lesson and being FORCED to say yes to any/every classmate that asks for a slow dance with more body contact than a simple hand touch at the "fun" Valentine's dance.