Middle Class

[Shugardrawers]

I agree it's all a matter of perspective but I supposed most would consider us middle class. Dh averages $50k per year. Some years he does very well with a ton of o/t and can make up to $75k. Some years it's a bit leaner and he makes $40kish. I'm not able to work right now due to health reasons. We have no children of our own, our DD from his first marriage is 21 and no longer receives child support (though we help with college costs) and we rent due to his job transfer opportunites within the company (it's MUCH more economically reasonable for us). We carry less than $10k total debt. We don't live in a super nice neighborhood or have brand new cars but if he were laid off tomorrow we could make it several months because we live modestly and mostly in cash. It ain't much but we're happy

 

[Buckalew11]

Princess Suzanne,

I said the same thing this week to a client. my DH and I make less than 100,000 a year but I thought we were 'middle class'. I know I'm not rich but I can pay my bills and vacation too.I think i thought I was richer than I am, LOL, until I hear all these middle class numbers flying around!
I knew I was going to do private school for DD (about 6,000 a year) so I only had one child. I knew it'd be tough for us to do more than that. Of course, suddenly, at the end of 8th grade, she's not there anymore and is homeschooling. She has her heart set on a private liberal art college here in town and I'm hoping for scholarships etc. for her to go there. I know kids should not get set on one particular place but she definitely is so I'm hoping for a miracle in that department.

We really try hard to live within our means. We have 3 vehicles and all are paid for (none are new now), a house, a small business, and extras like cell phones and internet and direct tv. We plan on building a house sometime in 2009. *deep breath*

But like I said, I sorta felt ''rich" until I heard what middle class was.

How come we don't pay a flat tax? Wouldn't that be more fair? Or am I missing something?

 

[Forevryoung]

Granted, we live in a modest home (3bedroom ranch on a 1/4 acre), but our property taxes aren't even $1800! I know salaries are higher in high cost of living areas, but it doesn't seem like they could possibly be enough higher to make up for that sort of difference.

Right, that's the point that some of us try to make up here when it comes to salaries and taxes and whatnot- while we definitely make more to compensate for the cost of living, we are taxed more as well (federal, state, sales...), therefore the increased cost of living isn't as compensatory as one would believe in many cases.

$1 goes a lot further in other parts of the country than it does here that's for sure.

 

[Pin Wizard]

I also have a DD going to college next year and she would really like to go to one particular college out of state, but I cannot swing it. Also, to be fair, the county public schools and my children didn't mix well. Total chaos after 5th grade. I had to put both kids in private schools. My son's K-8 isn't too bad ($5,000 per year) but my DD's high school runs me $13,000 per year. I know, I know, I didn't *have* to do this. I actually should have spent the $$$$ a few years ago and bought "up" in the next county for better schools. Anyway, the private schools were something I never budgeted for in my early "grand planning" years and they do cost me a chunk. I like to nickname my daughter "Mercedes" and my son "BMW." They are my luxury vehicles!!!

I was lucky that I bought my house in the 90s, and my mortgage with insurance and taxes is only $1300 per month. Had I stayed in my townhouse in Maryland that I bought in 1988, it would have only been $700 a month but the minute I saw the boy next door pull out a gun while walking down the street---well, it was time to move on out.

It's almost embarrassing when I think of our combined income. I feel like I should be rolling in dough but I'm consider myself merely comfortable.

I've looked at job listings in Northern VA for what I do. I could get about $18,000 more a year on the high end of the scale. Not quite sure that would be worth it with the cost of living in that area. I would imagine it would be a struggle for sure. Geez...it's enough of a struggle now.

Schools...my sister and her family lived in Nokesville a few years. They made the switch to Fairfax when their son was headed into high school. She did her homework, and Fairfax had the best high schools. I'm happy with the school my son is in. He's doing great!

Just got my property tax bill yesterday. I swear it's gone up from the bill 6 months ago. And it's apparent that they did not reassess the value of homes! They like to reassess when the market is up. They need to reassess when the market is down the tubes!

 

[mickeysgal]

It is amazing to me how different the cost of living and salaries are around the country.

Isn't that the truth. Just watching House Hunters on HGTV was an eye opener to me. Houses that I wouldn't pay 125,000 in my part of the country were going for over 450,000 in other areas. I never understood how some of the younger couples could afford some of the prices of the homes they were looking at. Hence, the housing bubble.

 

[mickeysgal]

Just got my property tax bill yesterday. I swear it's gone up from the bill 6 months ago. And it's apparent that they did not reassess the value of homes! They like to reassess when the market is up. They need to reassess when the market is down the tubes!

I was wondering how cities were going to handle this. Guess they have to make up the loss in taxes from the houses sitting in foreclosure. I can see them staying the same, but to increase?

 

[allison443]

I knew that we could never afford the college that our daughter wanted. So she moved out , got an apartment, went to community college and worked. She became independent of us so that she could apply for loans and grants on her own. It has worked out very well for her, but I know it's not possible for all kids to do this.

My understanding of the current rules for financial aid "independence" is that a student can only be considered "independent" as follows: (from the fafsa website):

"You are automatically classified as independent if you: Will be 24 by Dec. 31 of the award year; Are a veteran of the U.S. Armed Forces; Are on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces; Are an orphan or ward of the court; Have legal dependents other than a spouse; Are married; Or are a graduate or professional student."

Was that the case with your daughter? Did she have to wait till she was 24?
Anyway, I'm glad it worked out for your dd!

I'm pretty sure that with the income that Christine posted, her dd will not be receiving any need-based financial aid for college. So even though her income is higher, she needs to save for her dd's college.

 

[Family Fun Mom]

owning your home and not having kids, wipes out two of the biggest expenses known to mankind.

No kidding. I have this arguement with my sister all of the time. She and her husband make about 30,000 less than my husband and I do. She thinks because of our income level we should be living much better than she does. If I complain about not having money she gives me the "you make $$$ you have no reason to complain" speech. She has a comparable house payment to mine but no car payment and no kids. I have two car payments and THREE kids. She does not grasp how much of a difference having children makes.

Someday, when she has a few of her own, I expect an apology.

I do believe we are firmly middle class, but closer to the low end of it.

 

[MUFFYCAT]

I've looked at job listings in Northern VA for what I do. I could get about $18,000 more a year on the high end of the scale. Not quite sure that would be worth it with the cost of living in that area. I would imagine it would be a struggle for sure. Geez...it's enough of a struggle now.

Schools...my sister and her family lived in Nokesville a few years. They made the switch to Fairfax when their son was headed into high school. She did her homework, and Fairfax had the best high schools. I'm happy with the school my son is in. He's doing great!

Just got my property tax bill yesterday. I swear it's gone up from the bill 6 months ago. And it's apparent that they did not reassess the value of homes! They like to reassess when the market is up. They need to reassess when the market is down the tubes!

It wouldn't be worth it. After taxes that $18,000 could easily be $12,000 or less.
My brother moved to Texas years ago. He said salary would have to be ALOT MORE if he ever considered moving back!!
Just to start offf his insurance is nothing compared to what it would cost here. He pays no state income taxes and his real estate taxes have gone down while ours have continued to rise in record numbers.

I tell everyone to move the heck out of here!
It cost too much to take a vacation here.
New York City is great but it's not worth all the money you'll spend.
Especially at Christmas time, it's pretty but it's so crowded you can't see everything properly.

 

[Christine]

I've looked at job listings in Northern VA for what I do. I could get about $18,000 more a year on the high end of the scale. Not quite sure that would be worth it with the cost of living in that area. I would imagine it would be a struggle for sure. Geez...it's enough of a struggle now.

(

It really depends on what you are doing. For instance, I have been in my field for over 20 years. As I stated earlier, I live 30 miles south of DC. I could go to work in DC and make just over $100,000 a year working in my field. Or, I could slash my commute by 20 miles and make....drumroll....$50,000 per year doing the same exact job at Quantico (which is about 10 miles south of me). So, even between the Quantico area and DC, in my field there is just a huge pay difference. I can't quite justify giving up the $50,000 (and then never really getting a raise) to work closer to home.

I guess my point with that was that in any number of fields, if you actually come into the DC area you can get WAY more than an $18,000 raise. You would need every penny of it of course and then, on top of that, you'd be thrown into a much higher taxing bracket. I always pout that "it's just not fair." But that's life, it's the field I ended up in and, unfortunately, it doesn't transfer to many other places in the U.S.

 

[Colleen27]

How come we don't pay a flat tax? Wouldn't that be more fair? Or am I missing something?

We don't pay a flat tax because while it would be more fair, it would represent a MAJOR tax increase on the already stretched working and middle classes, to offset the major tax cut the wealthy would get. For example, as a family of 4 making about 50K/year our effective tax rate is around 4%. The major flat tax proposals put the rate at 17% to make up the same revenues as our current system.

 

[SereneOne]

My husband makes $50,000 yearly and I thought we where middle class until I read here. I am currently at home with our special needs daughter and back in college to further my degree as she gets healthier. In a year or two I will be back in the work force, but as a social worker I do not make much monetarily. We have two vehicles but we paid cash for them, they are in the mid-nineties. We live in a house based upon DH's salary, but here in the Upstate you can get a nice home in a decent neighborhood with a pool, tennis courts, club house, etc for 150,000. We did go to Disney last year, we plan on budgeting to go once a year and we take several short trips locally to Asheville and Atlanta, etc. We do not currently have child care expenses being that I am home. I was surprised to find that according to the Dis, I am poverty stricken, lol.

 

[Colleen27]

My husband makes $50,000 yearly and I thought we where middle class until I read here. I am currently at home with our special needs daughter and back in college to further my degree as she gets healthier. In a year or two I will be back in the work force, but as a social worker I do not make much monetarily. We have two vehicles but we paid cash for them, they are in the mid-nineties. We live in a house based upon DH's salary, but here in the Upstate you can get a nice home in a decent neighborhood with a pool, tennis courts, club house, etc for 150,000. We did go to Disney last year, we plan on budgeting to go once a year and we take several short trips locally to Asheville and Atlanta, etc. We do not currently have child care expenses being that I am home. I was surprised to find that according to the Dis, I am poverty stricken, lol.

It isn't just the DIS. There's been a fundamental redefinition of middle class for the purposes of political discourse. I'm not sure when it happened, but somewhere along the line "rich" became a dirty word and all but the top 1% got reclassified as middle. So when people talk middle class meaning folks with low 6-figure incomes, it is easy for those of us in the statistical middle to start to feel pretty freaking poor. LOL

 

[Forevryoung]

I was surprised to find that according to the Dis, I am poverty stricken, lol.

Who said that you were poverty stricken? If you are able to pay for your needs and save for your wants, you are middle class. Your post would lead me to believe that you can do exactly that.

However, "middle class" is definitely dependent on not just how much you make but how much the cost of living is in your area. That was the point.

 

[tonilea]

I don't think it matters if you make 30k or 300k, some people will still find a way to piddle it away. Just look at many past lottery winners.

We live better on DH's modest police salary, than many do on much more. But, like you, our home is paid for and we choose to live debt free.

 

[mjkacmom]

Granted, we live in a modest home (3bedroom ranch on a 1/4 acre), but our property taxes aren't even $1800! I know salaries are higher in high cost of living areas, but it doesn't seem like they could possibly be enough higher to make up for that sort of difference.

It doesn't, and I think that's a point those of us who live in these areas try to make. Yes, DH makes in the very, very low six figures, and we scrape. We don't go on vacation every year, we never go to the movies, we go out to eat a dozen times a year, the kids wear hand-me-downs, and we don't even have a single laptop or flat screened TV. My mortgage payment for my little old house is $2,500 a month, almost 1/2 of that is property taxes.

But it's not just housing - EVERYTHING seems to be more expensive. My utility bill is over $500 a month on the budget plan. Piano lessons start at $30 per half hour. The cheapest preschool here cost over $400 a month, 2 1/2 hours per day. Until the internet, I honestly never realized the difference in COL in different areas. You can't buy a single 2 bedroom condo here for under $300,000!

 

[DznyLvr2005]

It is amazing to me how different the cost of living and salaries are around the country. Even living in PA I could buy $25 and feed myself well for a week. Around here, the same food costs $45 or more, even buying on sale/with coupons.

We live in Staten Island.. DH is a cop, when we both worked we made over $130,000 a year (Now I'm a SAHM) But because we live in SI, we're always broke!!! Everything is so expensive, it it really doesn't matter how much you make, it's definately cost of living. Houses are so much money, even buying gas is a dollar more a gallon that 5 minutes away in NJ. We have to live in NY.. all NYPD cops have to, it's a law
ETA: Our electric bill in the summer is over $500 a month!!

 

[DznyLvr2005]

Isn't that the truth. Just watching House Hunters on HGTV was an eye opener to me. Houses that I wouldn't pay 125,000 in my part of the country were going for over 450,000 in other areas. I never understood how some of the younger couples could afford some of the prices of the homes they were looking at. Hence, the housing bubble.

Yeah that's us... an average house where I live is over 500,000... That's for a single family.. If you want an attached house (you own half a house) they go for way over $350,000 With NO LAND EITHER!! You're lucky if you get a patch of grass in your back yard.

 

[Pin Wizard]

It wouldn't be worth it. After taxes that $18,000 could easily be $12,000 or less.
My brother moved to Texas years ago. He said salary would have to be ALOT MORE if he ever considered moving back!!
Just to start offf his insurance is nothing compared to what it would cost here. He pays no state income taxes and his real estate taxes have gone down while ours have continued to rise in record numbers.

I tell everyone to move the heck out of here!
It cost too much to take a vacation here.
New York City is great but it's not worth all the money you'll spend.
Especially at Christmas time, it's pretty but it's so crowded you can't see everything properly.

Thanks for the tip! And NYC is a place I would love to take DS during the holidays this year. I grew up in Northern NJ, so I went a lot as a kid. But he hasn't been there yet. Not sure I can cut it for this year.

 

[Colleen27]

Yeah that's us... an average house where I live is over 500,000... That's for a single family.. If you want an attached house (you own half a house) they go for way over $350,000 With NO LAND EITHER!! You're lucky if you get a patch of grass in your back yard.

I really feel for those of you in such expensive places. It must be very, very stressful at times. We're looking at fixer-uppers in our area with a target budget of 50-60K; the houses we're looking at do need work, but most are livable (though ugly) as is. I found one that I think we'll be making an offer on - an 1800 sq ft 1904 Victorian on a half acre for 59K. I can't even imagine trying to scrape together 350K for a duplex!