middle class income?

[DawnM]

I didn't catch that the first time I read through.

I am wondering why PP doesn't use some of that 6 month emergency fund to pay off the debt and then all future earnings/savings would go to replenish that.

Paying interest for consumer debt just doesn't make sense if you have the cash. At least it doesn't to me.

Dawn

Sorry, but you need to get your priorities in order. You have pay premium TV, vacations, new gadgets, you are holding consumer credit card debt, but you are putting money into 529? You needto get your priorities straight. You are teetering on the line of failure. Sure 529s are nice, but the little bit of interest you are earning is far outweighed the crazy interest you are paying on consumer debt.

 

[prncess674]

I am wondering why PP doesn't use some of that 6 month emergency fund to pay off the debt and then all future earnings/savings would go to replenish that.

Paying interest for consumer debt just doesn't make sense if you have the cash. At least it doesn't to me.

Dawn

Totally agree! Paying consumer debt at normal prices and then only gaining 1 or 2 percent on most emergency fund savings (ready cash) is utterly ridiculous.

Having so much of your income go to debt is NOT middle class, it is bordering on "not making it" if the sole bread earner would to be injured or lose a job.

 

[DawnM]

Well, you are hitting on something that is not related to income at all or to middle class definition.

If I make $250K per year but spend $300K per year, I am poorer than the person making $75K and who spends only $50K.

The PP isn't in that category, but this is a huge problem in our country....overspending.

Dawn

Totally agree! Paying consumer debt at normal prices and then only gaining 1 or 2 percent on most emergency fund savings (ready cash) is utterly ridiculous.

Having so much of your income go to debt is NOT middle class, it is bordering on "not making it" if the sole bread earner would to be injured or lose a job.

 

[prncess674]

Well, you are hitting on something that is not related to income at all or to middle class definition.

If I make $250K per year but spend $300K per year, I am poorer than the person making $75K and who spends only $50K.

The PP isn't in that category, but this is a huge problem in our country....overspending.

Dawn

I guess my point is most people think that if they have 5 0r 10% in debt then they must be middle class, yet they think they are "middle class" because they have one or two thousand in savings for kids college education even though they are paying at least 15% to a credit company for the 10% debt. In reality these folks ae living on the edge of reality and are hence why so many folks are in trouble.10% debt is HUGE and is what has led so many people into finance ruin.

 

[AlaskaMOM]

I think it could be both. We're a military family and I would say most military families are middle class. We have a room for each kid (only 2 kids though, lol), 2 cars and travel extensively. DH has 15 years in and will pension out young. Lots of military qualifies for reduced lunch and WIC etc... but only because they only take into account taxable income. Plus with benefits we are very comfortable middle class.

I grew up into what some consider rich. I went to private elementary school because we lived in a poor area (my Dad was finishing up his residency in family medicine). But once my Dad was established we moved a nice area and went to public school. Me and DH are planning on sending our DD to private school for kindergarten because we'll be in Alaska and they have a horrible school system. It's just a financial priority for us.

Where did you hear Alaska has horrible schools We were stationed there for 7 years and the schools are far from "horrible"

Hate to hijack the thread, But I will anyway. You are way off in thinking Alaska (the whole state) have horrible schools. There may be a few schools struggling in the bush, but city schools are no way near horrible.

DH being in the navy before moving here we have been to a few other states and I would say the best one was Camden county Georgia, and the worst was Meridian Mississippi, with Alaska, washington, and california in the middle.

Before you spend gobs of money on kindergarten I would research the topic a little more. They say you typically have a "better return on your investment" private school-wise if you wait to see what the child's strengths and weaknesses are when they are a little older (unless there is a very apparant need in the child), and go from there.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I have 4 cars, 3 are paid off, I own a 3 bedroom home with a pool, which is also paid off. I have 3 grown children who live home (2 are in college). One child is out of work, other 2 work part time. I work full time, but for the school district so I don't work year round. My husband took a salary decrease and makes 3/4 less than what he did when the kids were small.
We don't take "vacations" but live 3 hours from Disney so we are always going there. We pay all our credit card bills off in full every month. we have satellite TV, cell phone plan w/3 phones on it and 6 dogs to feed... we don't make much money.. I consider us low income.. on top of everything, my DH has been out of work on workers comp a total of 6 months this year and 6 months last year.. We have a savings, DH has a 401 and I have several (actually enough to live off of for several years) series EE savings bonds from years ago that we have never cashed in and don't plan on until we retire (I am 54, DH is 51)
We may not make much, but we are not in debt, so while we may be "low income", we aren't living off of credit.. so I am fine with that.. what we have is our's..

 

[SandrA9810]

In the media, like watching the news and such, anything above getting food stamps and section 8 qualify as middle class....

There really needs to be the poor class, low class, and middle class. So many people think that just because they can hold a credit card and drive a car puts them into middle class. Therefor they need to spend more than they make just to keep up with the neighbor...

Most people seem to fall into the low class, making ends meet with a paycheck, but would be in trouble with a missed check. They also make too much money to qualify for any assistance, but they can't get out of the hamster wheel.

Middle class would be owning a home (without struggle), no debt, savings for various things (college funds, retirement funds, emergency funds). Which a middle class person would probably think of this as being rich or upper class.

Upper class to me is money falling out their ears for no darn good reason (lobbyists, athletes, politicians, and CEOs of failing companies that are still getting a raise every year). To me that's upper class. The person that's not really working or contributing to society that get paid way too much money for entertainment.

 

[BubMunkeyBles]

Hate to hijack the thread, But I will anyway. You are way off in thinking Alaska (the whole state) have horrible schools. There may be a few schools struggling in the bush, but city schools are no way near horrible.

DH being in the navy before moving here we have been to a few other states and I would say the best one was Camden county Georgia, and the worst was Meridian Mississippi, with Alaska, washington, and california in the middle.

Before you spend gobs of money on kindergarten I would research the topic a little more. They say you typically have a "better return on your investment" private school-wise if you wait to see what the child's strengths and weaknesses are when they are a little older (unless there is a very apparant need in the child), and go from there.

I was going off what I was told about the base schools and their ratings nationally. I will definitely look into it further closer to the time. She's only 2 now and will only be doing kindergarten there before we PCS.

 

[aceys_h0ney]

While we don't earn a lot of money we don't have much debt. Actually we only have 1 vehicle that we have a loan on (bought it used). Our house, other vehicle, camper and the boys toys (3 wheelers, dirt bikes) are all paid for. We paid cash for just about all of it. We typically have 1 vehicle financed and 1 vehicle that we own outright. We sell them when they are getting older and still have some value before they will need expensive repairs and replace them. This does mean at times we have only had 1 vehicle until we find the next deal or save some more money to add to what we sold the previous one for to buy a new one. I have a retirement plan through work. So I don't make a ton but don't need to spend a ton to maintain our life either. I would consider us lower middle class I guess. On paper based on my salary alone we could easily be considered poor until you factor in what we spend. However we are much better off then most that I know and most in my area who carry a large amount of debt. I work FT my husband stays home with the kids.

Oops I forgot my point LOL, so all that was to say I think it just depends on the family their needs and how they spend I don't think there is a cut and dry answer.

 

[Tinknalli]

I think we are solidly middle class. According to Wikipedia The median income for a household in the county was $36,743, and the median income for a family was $44,742. DH and I both work and have a houshold income of about $75,000. We own a 3 bed 2 bath home with a small mortgage due to a smart in investment in the first home we owned and sold for a profit, 3 vehicles (1 with a 3 year low interest loan that will be paid off in 2 years), travel (big trips every other year and smaller driving trip on the alternate years), no other debts (pay credit card in full monthly and paid college loans off by working 2 jobs right out of college). We have $40,000 in savings, put money in CDS every month for the kid's college, contribute to 403bs and have pensions. We don't have all the latest gadgets, we do pre paid cell phones, basic satelite tv and Netflix. Our 2 children participate in numerous activities including music lessons, theater, expensive travel soccer, horseback riding lessons and shows etc. We do not qualify for earned income credit etc on our taxes. I don't think you can just pick a number any more and determine class. It's all relative to cost of living. A 3 bedroom 2 bath small house here goes for $150,000-$200,000. Rent is high at about $1000 for a 3 bedroom apartment and $1200 or more for a small house.

 

[lisaross]

I don't think u can figure out what Middle Class is by looking at the way people live -- u can have 2 families making the same $ but just spend Very differently - it would have to be based solely on the income in that area i think.

After reading another thread on the disboards, I am curious as to what income range is now considered middle-class Americans. Does anyone know where to find the answer to that question?

I always considered the family I grew up in middle class. Stay at home mom, Dad who worked (sometimes 2 jobs) 1 car, single family home with 3 bedrooms and 4 kids, fenced back yard, vacations consisted of camping in a trailer. Parents aren't saving for retirement because they foolishly believe Social Security and their life long job will have retirement income. With todays standards and inflation is that still middle class? Or would it look something like this...

Both parents work, both own cars, 1 bedroom for each child, single family home, get away vacations every other year, investments for retirement and childs college funds.

As a kid I remember if you went to "private" school you were upper class,Or if your family owned a boat, you ate out more than once a month (and by out I mean the one McDonalds in the county. If you went to public school you were middle class. And although I hate to admit it, I do NOT intend to offend anyone, this is my thought process as a CHILD, anyone who lived in an apartment I considered lower middle class, and if you took advantage of free school lunch or lived in an apartment complex, I had you tagged as low income. (again the thought process of a child) Of course, that was before condos. Now a days I wish I could afford to live in some of what I would have considered "apartment" complexes in those days.

My parents paid $15,000.00 for the house I grew up in. I purchased that house 36 years later. I bought the same house the only "cosmetic improvement" (a.k.a no additions, plumbing, blowing out of walls, etc.)were a partial update to the electrical, put up a chain link fence, and paved the driveway, the house was appraised by a realtor for $152,000.00. I wish I could give you what that same house would be worth now, but we have done many changes over the past 25 years.

But, I digress, So what is middle class?

 

[njmom47]

Estimated median household income in 2009: $66,446

This zip code:
$66,446
New Jersey:
$68,342



This is from city-data website. DH and I are just a bit below this amt for our town, so I feel lower middle describes us.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

In the media, like watching the news and such, anything above getting food stamps and section 8 qualify as middle class....

There really needs to be the poor class, low class, and middle class. So many people think that just because they can hold a credit card and drive a car puts them into middle class. Therefor they need to spend more than they make just to keep up with the neighbor...

Most people seem to fall into the low class, making ends meet with a paycheck, but would be in trouble with a missed check. They also make too much money to qualify for any assistance, but they can't get out of the hamster wheel.

Middle class would be owning a home (without struggle), no debt, savings for various things (college funds, retirement funds, emergency funds). Which a middle class person would probably think of this as being rich or upper class.

Upper class to me is money falling out their ears for no darn good reason (lobbyists, athletes, politicians, and CEOs of failing companies that are still getting a raise every year). To me that's upper class. The person that's not really working or contributing to society that get paid way too much money for entertainment.

never mind.. need to post as stand alone post.. not directed at you.. sorry...

 

[A Mickeyfan]

After reading through many of these postings.. I think many of you need to change your wording..

While one can have a higher income, that doesn't make them "upper class" and the other can have the lower income, that doesn't make them "lower class". I consider myself on the low income side of the scale for a family of my size, but I do not consider my self "low class". As I stated, I out right own my home (free and clear), it is a 3 bedroom, 2 car over sized garage, fenced in yard, in-ground heated pool. I own 3 cars (2003, 2005 & 2-2006's) all but one is paid off in full. I have 2 children in college of which I am paying for. We have a savings, a 401K, and enough EE savings bonds to live off of for several years if I cashed them in. I also (didn't ad before), own property on northern Gulf Coast side of Fl free of a mtg and a house that is shared with my sister on northern East Coast side of FL which is also mtg free (I live in the SW side of FL). One of my children currently holds 3 college degrees.. that is NOT low class... my income may now be "low" due to circumstances that happened over the years with my DH's job but my class is NOT.. I think we are getting our wording mixed up a little. income and class do not mean the same thing.. think about that for a minute.. The biggest thing here too is I am not in debt.. I don't live beyond my means so I can "look" higher up that food chain. Sure I can go trade my cars in and purchase newer.. but why should I? They run fine. I don't keep up with the Jones's.. they are in debt .. I am not....many of them are losing their homes in foreclosures.. I am not.... Low income I may be.. Low class... no way... low class are those that run up their bills and skip out on paying them.. with their higher income salaries...

 

[DawnM]

Well, if you look at Wiki under the terms "middle income" and "middle class" it does appear that the term class is what most people recognize in monetary terms. However, I do understand what you are saying. They are just somewhat different definitions for the same word.

Officially class means:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/class


Dawn

After reading through many of these postings.. I think many of you need to change your wording..

While one can have a higher income, that doesn't make them "upper class" and the other can have the lower income, that doesn't make them "lower class". I consider myself on the low income side of the scale for a family of my size, but I do not consider my self "low class". As I stated, I out right own my home (free and clear), it is a 3 bedroom, 2 car over sized garage, fenced in yard, in-ground heated pool. I own 3 cars (2003, 2005 & 2-2006's) all but one is paid off in full. I have 2 children in college of which I am paying for. We have a savings, a 401K, and enough EE savings bonds to live off of for several years if I cashed them in. I also (didn't ad before), own property on northern Gulf Coast side of Fl free of a mtg and a house that is shared with my sister on northern East Coast side of FL which is also mtg free (I live in the SW side of FL). One of my children currently holds 3 college degrees.. that is NOT low class... my income may now be "low" due to circumstances that happened over the years with my DH's job but my class is NOT.. I think we are getting our wording mixed up a little. income and class do not mean the same thing.. think about that for a minute.. The biggest thing here too is I am not in debt.. I don't live beyond my means so I can "look" higher up that food chain. Sure I can go trade my cars in and purchase newer.. but whey should I? They run fine. I don't keep up with the Jones's.. they are in debt .. I am not....many of them are losing their homes in foreclosures.. I am not.... Low income I may be.. Low class... no way... low class are those that run up their bills and skip out on paying them.. with their higher income salaries...

 

[arthur06]

I looked on the citi-data website and DW and I make almost double of the average income for a household in our city.

On the contrary, our house is valued at only about 80-90% of the average home value.

We would like a bigger/newer/nicer house, but we don't want the larger payments that go with it (not just the mortgage either).

I know many people who don't make much money, but are good with there money and can afford to do many things that my friends who make double or triple can't afford to do....

I have friends like Stanley...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0HX4a5P8eE

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Well, if you look at Wiki under the terms "middle income" and "middle class" it does appear that the term class is what most people recognize in monetary terms. However, I do understand what you are saying. They are just somewhat different definitions for the same word.

Officially class means:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/class


Dawn

actually if you look.. it is "working class"... then under that comes the varies incomes..(we are not the elite class, we all work ) but yes, most do in fact relate their income to their class.. but it really isn't so.. "class" is more social, "income" is monetary. Many many many years ago, the "lower income" could not go to college, they could not own homes, they were not well groomed, or well spoken.. no education basically.. so they were "low class" of lower status than those who earned more and could afford more. It is not like that anymore. The class has nothing to do with the salary ranges. When you go from making say $75K to $30K.. does that automatically put you down from "middle class" to "lower class".. no it doesn't. Your social status has not changed, only your income, therefore you are no longer "middle income", but lower income"

 

[jodifla]

After reading another thread on the disboards, I am curious as to what income range is now considered middle-class Americans. Does anyone know where to find the answer to that question?

I always considered the family I grew up in middle class. Stay at home mom, Dad who worked (sometimes 2 jobs) 1 car, single family home with 3 bedrooms and 4 kids, fenced back yard, vacations consisted of camping in a trailer. Parents aren't saving for retirement because they foolishly believe Social Security and their life long job will have retirement income. With todays standards and inflation is that still middle class? Or would it look something like this...

Both parents work, both own cars, 1 bedroom for each child, single family home, get away vacations every other year, investments for retirement and childs college funds.

As a kid I remember if you went to "private" school you were upper class,Or if your family owned a boat, you ate out more than once a month (and by out I mean the one McDonalds in the county. If you went to public school you were middle class. And although I hate to admit it, I do NOT intend to offend anyone, this is my thought process as a CHILD, anyone who lived in an apartment I considered lower middle class, and if you took advantage of free school lunch or lived in an apartment complex, I had you tagged as low income. (again the thought process of a child) Of course, that was before condos. Now a days I wish I could afford to live in some of what I would have considered "apartment" complexes in those days.

My parents paid $15,000.00 for the house I grew up in. I purchased that house 36 years later. I bought the same house the only "cosmetic improvement" (a.k.a no additions, plumbing, blowing out of walls, etc.)were a partial update to the electrical, put up a chain link fence, and paved the driveway, the house was appraised by a realtor for $152,000.00. I wish I could give you what that same house would be worth now, but we have done many changes over the past 25 years.

But, I digress, So what is middle class?

Your childhood sounds a lot like mine, and I always considered us to be lower middle class. Dad worked, mom home, one child. We often scraped by. House was $16,000, I think. We had a 3/2, both parents had cars -- but used or very simple models that we kept for years. We rarely took vacations, but we did live in Florida. So the beach was 10 minutes away, Disney was 90 minutes away, Busch Gardens was 30 minutes away.

And when we came into some money, my parents added a pool! That made us party central. Looking back, the people on my street helped really make it a great childhood. Lots of kids, lots of parties, lots of fun.

I think what changes the scenario today is largely health care costs, and at least before the housing bubble burst, housing costs. My dad was able to support us without a huge salary, but we were paying almost nothing for insurance and our mortgage was very small.

Travel is also something we spend a lot of money on, but not my parents' generation. Their entertainment tended to be a lot of drinking and partying close to home...lots of family get-togethers and neighborhood parties.

 

[SandrA9810]

After reading through many of these postings.. I think many of you need to change your wording..

While one can have a higher income, that doesn't make them "upper class" and the other can have the lower income, that doesn't make them "lower class". I consider myself on the low income side of the scale for a family of my size, but I do not consider my self "low class". As I stated, I out right own my home (free and clear), it is a 3 bedroom, 2 car over sized garage, fenced in yard, in-ground heated pool. I own 3 cars (2003, 2005 & 2-2006's) all but one is paid off in full. I have 2 children in college of which I am paying for. We have a savings, a 401K, and enough EE savings bonds to live off of for several years if I cashed them in. I also (didn't ad before), own property on northern Gulf Coast side of Fl free of a mtg and a house that is shared with my sister on northern East Coast side of FL which is also mtg free (I live in the SW side of FL). One of my children currently holds 3 college degrees.. that is NOT low class... my income may now be "low" due to circumstances that happened over the years with my DH's job but my class is NOT.. I think we are getting our wording mixed up a little. income and class do not mean the same thing.. think about that for a minute.. The biggest thing here too is I am not in debt.. I don't live beyond my means so I can "look" higher up that food chain. Sure I can go trade my cars in and purchase newer.. but why should I? They run fine. I don't keep up with the Jones's.. they are in debt .. I am not....many of them are losing their homes in foreclosures.. I am not.... Low income I may be.. Low class... no way... low class are those that run up their bills and skip out on paying them.. with their higher income salaries...

I wouldn't put you in the low class based on your income changing from 75 to 30, or what have you. To me, you're still middle class, living comfortable, the way you want to.

Low class to me, seems to be those trying to keep up with the Joneses, those with upside down mortgages, consumer debt from buying the latest tv and gadgets. But on the outside, they look like the typical "American Middle class" living in the suburbs.

The rich don't get rich by spending. To me that means, a typical family learning to stretch a dollar to have more in the long run. Sure they could go out and buy what they want, but why do it if you don't have to?


Low class, middle income, the poor... America needs a total revamping on these terms and what they should mean. Because middle income shouldn't cover just about every one's salary minus the very rich or the very poor. I think I read some where that middle class starts at like 24,000 and goes to like 250,000... Something just doesn't seem right with that.

 

[leebee]

Just wanted to add... There was a pp with medical debt that several assumed meant she had credit card debt. It's SO possible to have medical debt that you are paying off without it being on a consumer credit card. Perhaps the pp was able to take advantage of a credit card zero interest check. Perhaps she is paying off the medical debt directly to the hospital, which I have done, and the hospital doesn't charge interest on the debt (ours was very happy to have me pay them $100 a month until DH's ultrasound test was paid off... because at $687/month in medical insurance premiums, our plan doesn't pay for lab tests, xrays, ct/mri, etc. until we are $3000 oop for the year... don't get me started!). Anyhow, just because someone is paying off debt over time, don't automatically assume they are paying interest on this!