Medical School question-dr's or those that know?

[golfgal]

Did a campus visit with the twins yesterday. Great fit for DS, has a great program for his major, they both loved the campus, loved the "extras" on campus, marching band, golf, etc. DD also loves the school (after listening to her whine because we were "making' her go along ). She wants to go into medicine and they only have about 10 kids/year go into medical school out of about 20 that "try" so about a 50% acceptance rate with most of the kids going to either the U of MN or Mayo medical school (so not bad schools) . The other schools she has looked at have 85-90% acceptance rate with many, many more kids in the program. Our feeling is she should go to one with a higher acceptance rate but maybe we are missing something? Would going through a smaller program hinder her chances? Advice?

 

[arminnie]

I have a friend who is the admissions dean for a major medical school (highly selective). Yeah it does make a difference where you do your undergrad work.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

Undergrad choice is important, as are GPA, MCAT, and summer activites. She should get hooked up with volunteer research positions, shadow MD's in hospitals, etc., which will be more valuable on her applications than things like marching band and golf.

 

[goofy!]

Did a campus visit with the twins yesterday. Great fit for DS, has a great program for his major, they both loved the campus, loved the "extras" on campus, marching band, golf, etc. DD also loves the school (after listening to her whine because we were "making' her go along ). She wants to go into medicine and they only have about 10 kids/year go into medical school out of about 20 that "try" so about a 50% acceptance rate with most of the kids going to either the U of MN or Mayo medical school (so not bad schools) . The other schools she has looked at have 85-90% acceptance rate with many, many more kids in the program. Our feeling is she should go to one with a higher acceptance rate but maybe we are missing something? Would going through a smaller program hinder her chances? Advice?

DS is in an engineering program that has a 99% acceptance rate. Only 1 graduate of the program who applied to med school did not get in.

He chose this major specifically because of the high acceptance rate.

 

[Swan4Me]

Both of my son's friends were Med school-one in NY one in Miami doing their residency to become surgeons-they both went to the local University for undergrad, then the big State Uni for Grad.
Both brilliant, but both had "connections"-one father a Doctor a, the other a Psychologist and that helped finding Dr friends to shadow etc.

 

[golfgal]

Undergrad choice is important, as are GPA, MCAT, and summer activites. She should get hooked up with volunteer research positions, shadow MD's in hospitals, etc., which will be more valuable on her applications than things like marching band and golf.

Yes, but golf will help pay for her undergrad .

Ok, I was just trying to see if we were missing something. Of course the pre-professional adviser that was doing the session said all the "right" things like "we are a small program so we give more hands on", "chances of getting a research position are higher because we are small", "we have great connections because we are small" but I kept going back to the 50% acceptance rate. She brushed that off saying that some of the larger schools won't write recommendations for students that don't meet minimum requirements skewing their numbers and I kept thinking "why is that a bad thing" .

She already has signed up to do some physician shadowing now, will have an 8 week shadow next year and depending on where she goes will continue to do that at school. She is also starting to volunteer in a local hospital. We have basically been told that they want to see great grades, top MCAT scores and lots of volunteer work in the medical setting as well as in the community (along with all the right coursework, etc.).

She will probably major in either biology or chemistry because she LOVES those classes but she is thinking about adding a Spanish major or something with that.

There was one girl at the session yesterday that I felt like telling-"honey, this is exactly how NOT to get into medical school". She asked about 50 questions (ok, probably only 20 and her mom asked another 20). Every time they had something to hand out to the students, her mom took it and looked at it first, the girl challenged the professor on pretty much every point she made about admissions (and was wrong on all of them )--and then would roll her eyes when the professor corrected her--wow. . Everyone around the room was looking at this girl and shaking their head.

 

[Buckalew11]

And wouldn't something like where they applied and how many places they applied to make a huge difference in that percentage? I mean, maybe not a huge deal, but someone like my nephew who applied to 2 medical schools instate and did not get in. I think he's done this twice because he does not want to leave SC. Kids like him would lower the percentage. BTW, he uncertified, teaching all sciences at a private HS right now & coaching too. This is his second year, we'll see what he decides to do...Hoping if he stays in teaching that he'll at least get certified so he can make better pay.

Good luck to your kids.

 

[golfgal]

And wouldn't something like where they applied and how many places they applied to make a huge difference in that percentage? I mean, maybe not a huge deal, but someone like my nephew who applied to 2 medical schools instate and did not get in. I think he's done this twice because he does not want to leave SC. Kids like him would lower the percentage. BTW, he uncertified, teaching all sciences at a private HS right now & coaching too. This is his second year, we'll see what he decides to do...Hoping if he stays in teaching that he'll at least get certified so he can make better pay.

Good luck to your kids.

I don't know, maybe. My guess is that if they get into ANY school it counts as 1 and the non-acceptances don't count for anything but I have no idea.

 

[LilyWDW]

You may also want to look into schools that offer premed/med programs. My local school does. If you get accepted into this program you are automatically accepted into the med school that the university is connected to. You can not apply until you are at a specific point in your studies, but it does end up being sort of a "early acceptance" into med school (and a very GOOD med school at that). Even if you don't get into that program, you can still get a great education and apply for that med school and any others in the nation.

 

[heatherwillmom]

Just remember that there are good & bad doctors that come from every school. It has a lot to do with the student. She can do great at any school. The worst doctor that I have ever worked with is a Harvard graduate. She gives the rest of us a bad name. Do you know what they call someone who graduates at the bottom of their class in medical school? "Doctor!"

 

[golfgal]

You may also want to look into schools that offer premed/med programs. My local school does. If you get accepted into this program you are automatically accepted into the med school that the university is connected to. You can not apply until you are at a specific point in your studies, but it does end up being sort of a "early acceptance" into med school (and a very GOOD med school at that). Even if you don't get into that program, you can still get a great education and apply for that med school and any others in the nation.

One school she is looking at doesn't have "automatic" selection but it has a 90% placement rate and that is close enough for me. I am not sure if we have any schools that have the automatic entrance around here, I'll have to do some digging.

Just remember that there are good & bad doctors that come from every school. It has a lot to do with the student. She can do great at any school. The worst doctor that I have ever worked with is a Harvard graduate. She gives the rest of us a bad name. Do you know what they call someone who graduates at the bottom of their class in medical school? "Doctor!"

I realize that the student is still the final factor but to get that "doctor" title they still have to get INTO medical school. She is a good student, has fantastic time management skills, great study skills, etc. I am sure she will do well no matter where she goes, but is doing well in a mediocre program enough? I suggested she call the two medical schools near us and ask them their opinion-not sure if that is a good idea or not???

 

[Buckeye Princess]

The availability of research is big. Some small liberal arts schools just don't have the research going on for undergrads to get involved in. Getting published and doing some good research as an undergrad can really set you apart.

 

[pigletgirl]

The undergrad is very important. I will know in March where I will be going to school, whether it be where I did my undergrad or somewhere else. You dont have to be at a school where there is a med program, if you choose.

 

[bluesaturn]

Yes, but golf will help pay for her undergrad .

Ok, I was just trying to see if we were missing something. Of course the pre-professional adviser that was doing the session said all the "right" things like "we are a small program so we give more hands on", "chances of getting a research position are higher because we are small", "we have great connections because we are small" but I kept going back to the 50% acceptance rate. She brushed that off saying that some of the larger schools won't write recommendations for students that don't meet minimum requirements skewing their numbers and I kept thinking "why is that a bad thing" .

The bolded is really important. I know to get into a PhD program (and I'm pretty sure for MD as well), having research experience is essential. And sometimes just finding a place to do research is difficult. But you also need to think about what research is being done at this school. Is the school a well-known research university with professors who are known in their fields?

I was also make sure there's a hospital nearby so she can do that volunteer work through her undergrad. I know many people in pre-med were part of the ER scribes program at local hospitals.

I think being a top student in a small program could be very beneficial in some ways. And I think the advisor had a point, it is possible that the big programs aren't letting people apply unless they are convinced they will get in, where as the small program is letting everybody who wants a shot apply. Does the 50% only refer to people who got in straight from undergrad? I know many people who worked for a year or two (or more) before applying to med school. In my field the best grad programs won't take you unless you've worked for a few years.

But I think you also have to focus on how the school fits with everything else she wants in a college. Many, many students come in pre-med and change their mind. And not necessarily because they can't hack it, but because they figure out they'd rather do something else.

 

[Boston Tea Party]

I have a friend who is the admissions dean for a major medical school (highly selective). Yeah it does make a difference where you do your undergrad work.

Would you please elaborate? I am very interested.

 

[golfgal]

The bolded is really important. I know to get into a PhD program (and I'm pretty sure for MD as well), having research experience is essential. And sometimes just finding a place to do research is difficult. But you also need to think about what research is being done at this school. Is the school a well-known research university with professors who are known in their fields?

I was also make sure there's a hospital nearby so she can do that volunteer work through her undergrad. I know many people in pre-med were part of the ER scribes program at local hospitals.

I think being a top student in a small program could be very beneficial in some ways. And I think the advisor had a point, it is possible that the big programs aren't letting people apply unless they are convinced they will get in, where as the small program is letting everybody who wants a shot apply. Does the 50% only refer to people who got in straight from undergrad? I know many people who worked for a year or two (or more) before applying to med school. In my field the best grad programs won't take you unless you've worked for a few years.

But I think you also have to focus on how the school fits with everything else she wants in a college. Many, many students come in pre-med and change their mind. And not necessarily because they can't hack it, but because they figure out they'd rather do something else.

Oh most defiantly!! That has been our #1 focus from the start. Who knows if she will stay with her plan to go to medical school or not. She keeps saying she wants to be a radiologist but I can't see her not doing some kind of patient care--she is just to social and too outgoing to sit in a closet reading films all day . I am going to guess she will stay with some science related major though--she loves science classes.

Yes, the school with the 50% rate does let everyone apply. I don't know if this professor is well known in her field or not. She seems like she would be a BLAST for a teacher though . Her research has something to do with figuring out when cells divide and why they stop when they do. Sounds pretty interesting to me actually. This school is a really good state school, just not the flagship school in that state. There is a hospital in town.

 

[bluesaturn]

Oh most defiantly!! That has been our #1 focus from the start. Who knows if she will stay with her plan to go to medical school or not. She keeps saying she wants to be a radiologist but I can't see her not doing some kind of patient care--she is just to social and too outgoing to sit in a closet reading films all day . I am going to guess she will stay with some science related major though--she loves science classes.

Yes, the school with the 50% rate does let everyone apply. I don't know if this professor is well known in her field or not. She seems like she would be a BLAST for a teacher though . Her research has something to do with figuring out when cells divide and why they stop when they do. Sounds pretty interesting to me actually. This school is a really good state school, just not the flagship school in that state. There is a hospital in town.

All of it can be so confusing to figure out. It can be very good if you're at a big research institution, where you might help work on grant-funded research with big names. At the same time, sometimes at the smaller schools you can become very close with a professor and becoming involved in many smaller projects. One of our state schools (not the flagship) is really well know for their science related majors and plenty of people from their go onto med school. I think there's a lot of advantages to attending a state school if you plan to attend graduate school in the sciences.

 

[golfgal]

All of it can be so confusing to figure out. It can be very good if you're at a big research institution, where you might help work on grant-funded research with big names. At the same time, sometimes at the smaller schools you can become very close with a professor and becoming involved in many smaller projects. One of our state schools (not the flagship) is really well know for their science related majors and plenty of people from their go onto med school. I think there's a lot of advantages to attending a state school if you plan to attend graduate school in the sciences.

I suppose she is in a good spot, she has 4 schools she would be just fine attending--and that is without having various schools contact her for golf yet (can't until the end of her junior season this spring). We are trying to get in these visits before the snow flies and saving this summer for her "recruiting" visits (they can have up to 5 of those). She wants a place where she can golf, have fun with golf, but not have it consume all of her time and so far the schools she has as her top 3 have all of that for her.

DS is a little easier as he won't be going on to grad school most likely-won't need to with his intended major/field, actuarial science. They have a smaller program at this school but well connected for jobs after school-95% of the grads from that program get hired before graduation . If he doesn't get big bucks for Notre Dame, he will probably go to this school.

 

[collegejunkie]

Undergrad choice is important, as are GPA, MCAT, and summer activites. She should get hooked up with volunteer research positions, shadow MD's in hospitals, etc., which will be more valuable on her applications than things like marching band and golf.

yup. but these are all the bare minimum. to stand out, there needs to be something more, too.

I have a friend who is the admissions dean for a major medical school (highly selective). Yeah it does make a difference where you do your undergrad work.

another yup. we have tons of family friends who do admissions and my mom used to be involved also. if it didn't matter, everyone would just go to easy schools that no one has ever heard of (which goes for everything, not just medicine)

 

[arminnie]

Would you please elaborate? I am very interested.

I don't think that the choice of any college would automatically exclude someone from getting into med school. But having undergrad credentials from a school known for well preparing students for med school can help.

The last thing a med school wants is to admit someone who does not make it thru. Unfortunately this happened to one of my relatives who decided to go to med school in his mid 30s. He passed 2 years but just couldn't make it thru the last part although he really tried.

I'll give an example that is not med school related. I took accounting at a local college one summer. It was pretty much bookkeeping. Very, very elementary. When I went to the business school at Stanford the introductory accounting course (only a quarter not a semester) covered about 10 times the material - including how to analyze financial statements. Both classes were introductory classes with no pre-reqs, but the amount of material covered was vastly different.

The same sort of thing happens with biology, chemistry, etc. The tougher schools are just going to cover so much more.