Medallion Signature Guarantee

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Has anyone ever had to get a Medallion Signature Guarantee? Allegedly, this is a requirement that stems from SEC rulings, and is required on any significant stock or mutual fund transactions.

We have had one brokerage that is really annoying with regard to requiring the guarantee. It is complicated by the fact that the account is a joint tenancy between three brothers, living in separate states, and our deceased mother.

Has anyone else encountered significant complications related to Medallion Signature Guarantees?

Has anyone had to actually pay to get one?

Can anyone explain why this level of exclusivity in validation of identity is necessary for equities but not for large cash transfers?
 
The only thing I know about this is yesterday at the bus stop one of the moms said she had to get one. I told her I had never heard of it. Her mom had died and it had to do something with a 401 K. She mentioned she went to a bank to get it and that it was free. Sorry that's all I have.
 
I had to get one a couple months ago. THe bank did it for me, I just had to prove that I was really me. It cost me nothing and took about 15 minutes.
 
It isn't new. I've done it several times over the last 20 years. Pretty painless too, just take Driver's license or passport to the bank with you.
 

I asked the question kind of out of context.... I should probably fill in some details about my experience and where I'm coming from with this inquiry. This is something that other folks, perhaps everyone with investments, might be interested in, and so I should share what little I know, from my own experience, just to start things off.

A Medallion Signature Guarantee is a certification a bank officer applies to a written letter of instruction to a brokerage, attesting to the identity of the person signing the letter, and promising that if it turns out that the person signing is not the person who they are attested to be, that the bank granting the Medallion Signature Guarantee will be financially liable for any and all losses stemming from the brokerage following the instructions in the letter of instruction. So, unlike a notary public, who just says, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is the person," a Medallion Signature Guarantee means, "I'm so sure that this is the person that if it is not, and someone loses money because of this, then I'll financially insure that loss."

The medallion isn't an embossed stamp, like you'd see with a notarization, but instead is a printed stamp, like THIS, but instead of black, it is in lime green (at least all that I've seen).

My understanding is that there are only 700 banks in the country that offer the medallion, so it very possible that your bank doesn't even offer it. If you do have a relationship with a bank that offers such guarantees, they will generally provide the guarantee to you for free. It should be noted that (at least at my bank) you have to have a pre-existing relationship with the bank, it cannot be "recent", and it must be "significant". By that I think they mean you cannot just write a check for $50 to open an account with them, and then get a Medallion Signature Guarantee from them. I have no idea what the SEC expects you to do if you don't have a significant relationship with one of these 700 banks.

Another complexity we encountered is that the brokerage insisted on all three surviving owners of the joint tenancy actually sign the physical piece of paper -- we couldn't each sign our own copies of the letter. Given that we live in three different states, and bank at different banks (see above where banks won't provide the guarantee for non-customers), it meant that this same physical piece of paper had to travel from owner to owner. Even then, one of the bank officers objected saying that the three owners had to appear in front of her in person to sign the letter together (but she still refused to guarantee the signatures of non-customers).

However, the brokerage's form for the letter of instruction only had space for the signature of two owners! So I had to create my own form with space for all three of us. However, the bank objected to that, saying that they want to only guarantee official brokerage forms. I had to get the bank officer and the brokerage CSR on the phone together, to have the brokerage CSR say that the brokerage would accept my homemade form. (The bank officer commented, afterward, looking at my homemade form and the brokerage's, that mine was better; in several ways: Not only was it more professional-looking and more flexible, but it actually had the brokerage's logo on it, and lines and such were in the brokerage's logo's color, blue, while the brokerage's form inexplicably had red lines, didn't have their logo on it, and didn't look very professional at all. She suspected that the brokerage would be calling me to get a copy of the Microsoft Word file. :))

Another complexity we encountered is that my bank (Bank of America) won't grant the medallion unless you have a recent statement of the brokerage account, to prove that it isn't worth more than $1M. They care about how much you have in the brokerage because, remember, they're promising to cover any financial losses associated with you not being who they say you are. I'm not sure what happens if you happen to have more invested than that, and need to have a medallion granted.

Having a recent statement may not seem like much of a problem, but in the case of a death of one account holder, with three surviving owners of a joint tenancy, plus the representative of the deceased, all having to issue the same instruction, all Medallion Signature Guaranteed, it isn't strange that at least two of those people don't happen to have a current statement of the account with them.

In the end, we did work out all the complexities, at least with the first letter of instruction. Now they're objecting to the fact that the name of the Certificate of Death doesn't match the name on the brokerage account. (My mother left her account in her first-married name, i.e., my father's, and therefore my, last name, but the Certificate of Death has her second-married name.) So now they want a letter certifying that the two names are the same person.

And guess what! They want that letter also Medallion Signature Guaranteed! :furious:

Anyway, my inquiry is not so much looking for guidance on dealing with it, but rather I'm interested in finding out whether other folks encounter complexities like we did, or was our experience unique. I'm especially interested in finding out what folks do if they don't have a relationship with one of the 700 banks that offer the Medallion Signature Guaranteed.
 
I hope it gets figured out for you quickly Bicker! :hug:

I had to have one for a completely different reason than you so maybe thats why mine was so easy? I'm not sure. They knew exactly what I wanted when I went in so I guess my tiny BOA in a rinky dink town in FL is one of the 700 banks who have it. :confused3
 
I think BoA counts as no more than 50 banks (one for each state; probably a lot less, i.e., BoA in New England's five states is probably just one bank); I don't think the 700 counts every branch of every bank.*

I think a lot of the complexity we encountered was because this account was set up as a Joint Tenancy, instead of as "TOD" like her IRA account, or as a regular individual account. In the case of "TOD", all that is needed is a Certificate of Death, and then the brokerage has to work with each one of the beneficiaries as individuals. In the case of a regular individual account, the brokerage has to work with the executor as an individual. Much simpler than with a Joint Tenancy.

__________
* 700 is still a small number because there are 8,430 separate FDIC-insured commercial banks in the United States, and that doesn't include Credit Unions. Also, the 700 may count BoA New England separate from BoA Mid-Atlantic, but the 8,430 may not. Also, I don't think that Thrifts (savings and loan associations) are included in the 8,430.

.
 
I have absolutely nothing to add about the Medallion. I just wanted to express my condolences on the loss of your Mom. I don't read the community board all that often, so this thread is the first I've read about your loss. :guilty:
 
A medallion signature guarantee is most definitely required by the SEC. It is not a negotiable requirement. An individual account is most definitely not easier to transfer. In the case of an individual account, you must provide a certified copy of the COA. Normally if you are transferring a joint tenant account, a signature guarantee is not required. Unless you are not transferring the stock to the joint tenants named on the stock certificate.
 
I just wanted to express my condolences on the loss of your Mom. I don't read the community board all that often, so this thread is the first I've read about your loss. :guilty:
Thanks. :hug:

Normally if you are transferring a joint tenant account, a signature guarantee is not required.
That's what I thought; that is unfortunately not the case.

Unless you are not transferring the stock to the joint tenants named on the stock certificate.
The account was indeed being divided equally among the surviving members of the Joint Tenancy. Medallion Signature Guarantee was still required, for all three. The way it was explained to me was that it was a matter of how much each share was worth -- as long as any of the shares was worth more than a threshold amount ($5K I think), the Medallion Signature Guarantee was required.
 
Anyway, my inquiry is not so much looking for guidance on dealing with it, but rather I'm interested in finding out whether other folks encounter complexities like we did, or was our experience unique. I'm especially interested in finding out what folks do if they don't have a relationship with one of the 700 banks that offer the Medallion Signature Guaranteed.

Yes, I've had to grapple with the odious Catch-22 of the Medallion Signature Guarantee. When my dad passed, I was the beneficiary on one of his IRAs. They required the guarantee. I don't live in the US, so first they were saying, "Surely there's a US bank you can go to in your city?" Umm... no. So then it was "well, you'll have to take a trip to the US to get the GMed Signature Guarantee." I called a few banks in my dad's city and found, as you mentioned, that they were not interested in providing this service to non-customers. What incentive do they have, after all... there's nothing in it for them except a big financial risk.

So I rolled up my sleeves, got on the phone with the customer service people for the financial institution holding the IRA, and went to the THIRD level of supervisor to get my inheritance that they were holding hostage. I had to mention that I could hire a lawyer in the US without a stinkin' signature guarantee, and it was my opinion that they were stealing my money by putting an impossible obstacle in my way.

They got tired of me and agreed to accept a signature guarantee from my Canadian brokerage house.

So was this actually illegal for them to do? Sounds like it was the SEC that was putting the unreasonable obstacle in place, if it's them that set the requirement.
 
My condolences on your loss.

In my heart of hearts, I think the bank just wants to hold on to *your* money as long as possible. Yeah, yeah, I understand somewhat about the Medallion Signature, but I think they're using that as a handy excuse.

Just to tick the bank off, I think I might have proposed a road trip, made an appointment with the bank office I'd been dealing with at the bank holding the IRA & then had all the survivors show up with all possible documentation (passports, driver's licenses, Soc Sec cards, birth certificates, sworn notarized statements, *whatever*) AND the signed Medallion Signature AND a really good/well-known local lawyer.

Hmmmmm....and ask your accountant that since it's somewhat of a business trip, maybe the expenses could be taken off of your taxes?

agnes!
 














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