MDE & FP+ are NOT failures

[poppinspenguins]

Basing success or failure on a earnings report during implementation is misguided.

I personally was there in November. Didnt like FP. They obviously got money from me in November. Friends went in December, said it would be a LONG time until they went again...and it was fp related.

The true earnings statements will be down the line when Disney realizes if they are getting the same repeat customers. The people going now already had their plans in place.

It i not just disboards that are upset, the fb page is being hit hard. Yes people are more likely to post bad experiences. But Disney always had lots of sunshine, rainbows and unicorns coming out of its posters...there has been a negative swing.

the are being very clear by saying mymagic allowed 3000 more in the parks. they are packing people in and shifting their position in the park instead of making improvements. there are countless reports of longer lines at low level attraction. i can see disney happy about this but fail to see why any fan would be happy about this. if this pleases you, please tell me why.

If you love FP great. That does not make those who can see a dimished product with supposedly improved technology luddites.

 

[Mommy2Corinne]

Basing success or failure on a earnings report during implementation is misguided.

I personally was there in November. Didnt like FP. They obviously got money from me in November. Friends went in December, said it would be a LONG time until they went again...and it was fp related.

The true earnings statements will be down the line when Disney realizes if they are getting the same repeat customers. The people going now already had their plans in place.

It i not just disboards that are upset, the fb page is being hit hard. Yes people are more likely to post bad experiences. But Disney always had lots of sunshine, rainbows and unicorns coming out of its posters...there has been a negative swing.

the are being very clear by saying mymagic allowed 3000 more in the parks. they are packing people in and shifting their position in the park instead of making improvements. there are countless reports of longer lines at low level attraction. i can see disney happy about this but fail to see why any fan would be happy about this. if this pleases you, please tell me why.

If you love FP great. That does not make those who can see a dimished product with supposedly improved technology luddites.

Very well said!

I was thinking the exact same thing about packing an extra 3,000 people into already overcrowded parks. Ummm...yay?? This is a "success" to the visitor how?

I think Disney is seriously underestimating the "word of mouth" effect. When hoards of previously fanatical Disney lovers stop cheerleading for Disney and instead start griping about overcrowding/long lines/ FP+/ etc., the seemingly endless stream of once-in-a-life timers and shiny-eyed newbies will eventually dry up. Those loyal, repeat cheerleaders were the ones helping to create the demand for the "I'm finally going to Disneyworld!" type visitors.

It obviously didn't happen last year (most trips were planned long before this debacle was truly underway), it may not happen this year or even next year. But it will eventually happen if things continue down this path. A company can only rely on past goodwill for so long before that is simply not enough.

I have been a *huge* Disney cheerleader for years now. I can't count how many friends and family members I have personally convinced to go to Disney by my rave reviews and glowing post-trip feedback.

Recently? Well, lets just say that I no longer feel confident recommending Disney to anyone right now. In the past few months, the four families that I attempted to help/re-adjust plans that had been previously booked, came home with mostly negative experiences. From the technology "glitches" that they experienced, to the excessive amount of "annoying" (their word) preplanning, to the rude and overwhelmed CMs, to the long lines...not one single family I know who has traveled there in the last several months has any desire to return.

In fact, my co-worker who was there last week was stunned at how crowded the parks were on a week of mainly 3-4 crowd level predictions. She had a horrible experience at DHS, and was upset that she consistently had to wait in 50-90 minute lines in MK. In fact, she ended up only spending 2 of her four days at Disney and spent the other 2 at US. When she returned to the office, she single-handedly convinced another co-worker who had been considering an upcoming Disney trip to skip Disney altogether and head elsewhere.

I understand that my personal experiences are anecdotal; however, they aren't happening in a vacuum. As PP said, check out the Disney Facebook page reviews or look at other avid Disney fan sites...people are unhappy/upset right now. This isn't one or two people griping about a random bad trip; this is numerous, numerous people all complaining about one general problem (the thing that Disney happened to dump a huge amount of money into).

This report speaks of anything but "success" to me. If Disney's intent is to keep cramming as many people as they can into the parks using the premise of MM+ (without adding capacity), then in my personal view of success, the future looks very bleak indeed.

 

[photo_chick]

Original FP was a big change. And when I first encountered, I loved it. But it was pretty much a uniformly positive change. I looked back through 1999 internet postings/reviews, and I couldn't find one negative report. Not so for FP+. There are gainers and losers in this system, and those that feel that they are losing something are going to complain.

I actually liked MBs a lot, and those are a big change. I don't even mind MDE (even with its glitches). I like the concept of FP+, but the limitation of number of FP in MK and tiers in EP and HS are very negative changes for me. So, I don't fear change. Just change that is going to have a negative impact on my park touring.

I haven't gone back and looked at posts when FP was originally put into place but I do remember when FP+ negative reports came out people started dredging up old threads full of similar concerns from when FP first started. I was on the boards here when they started enforcing FP return times and there was the same kind of negativity that FP+ is encountering. People said it would ruin their vacation, that being constrained to that window would mean they had no freedom, etc.... Same complaints in different packaging.

I get where the idea that someone might feel that it has a negative impact because they cannot tour the way they used to. But I also think that if its truly a negative impact then those people should probably find somewhere else to vacation. Because really, if it's that bad then go somewhere that doesn't stress you out, make you angry or unhappy. Vacations are supposed to be fun.

 

[Eeyore's My Favorite]

I'm a local & AP holder & like the FP+. I have the MBs from a stay last October when it was first tested at BC & loved the fact that I could finally get on some rides that I'd been trying for ages to do. We went 3 weeks ago on a spur of the moment trip to MK & I was able to schedule FPs for rides I wanted to do & was pleasantly surprised when we got there at 10:45 am that the bigger rides were walk ons. I haven't had any issues with the MDE app either.

 

[ML_LovesDisney]

I think some people just don't like change

Agreed! It has some kinks to be worked out but I think it will evolve. I'm excited to use it

 

[JZCubed]

How can you praise FP+ just yet? They just instituted it without FP- as a backup. It hasn't even had time to contribute (or not) just yet.

However MDE seems to be fine so far.

It's is easy to praise FP+.

I made my reservations yesterday for my trip in 59 days.

No longer must my family wake up and feel rushed to gather FP-.

Matter of fact, we plan on going to EPCOT one morning for Akershus breakfast and enjoying the Flower & Garden show.....but have FP+ to be on Magic Kingdom attractions later that same evening before the fireworks. With a 5 y.o. in tow, I cannot praise FP+ enough for allowing us the opportunity to Park Hop without having to wait Stand-by for Enchanted...Belle, Big Thunder Railroad, and Buzz Lightyear.

Also, our departure time to the airport is at 1pm. With FP+, we can have a more leisurely morning before heading to a Park to enjoy three more attractions of our choice without having any worries.

I cannot praise FP+ enough......but I would still prefer no Tiering.....

And I am willing to suggest that by eliminating FP-, stand-by lines will now be shorter.

Why?

Because those people who 'tested' FP+ were also more likely to pull FP- as well. So while these people were riding an attraction multiple times, the stand-by line was growing. By eliminating FP-, the loss of double- and triple-dipping will open up stand-by lines by distributing FP+ more equally.

Moreover, there will be less stand-by line build-up immediately following rope drop because FP+ return times will more evenly distribute riders who have an attraction as a 'must-do'. This too should shorten stand-by lines throughout the day.

 

[redrosesix]

You can't base an assessment of Disney's financials on an article from Variety -- they're basically just reprinting what Disney gives them. The analysts covering Disney have been uncharacteristically slow in coming out with their reviews this week -- should have had articles and interviews from them at least by today. They're the people that re-crunch the numbers and say whether things actually make sense.

3k more people in the parks just means they didn't close the gates at 40k in MK. Nothing more. And they even said in the earnings release that their revenues were up because of price increases.

Fp+ is like DDP in this way: the only problem with DDP is that you have to book so far out because there aren't enough decent TS's that you could change your plans day of and get seated. FP+ is a bad idea because there aren't enough decent rides in the parks. None of this would be an issue if the alternative to using a fp wasn't a 90 minutes wait in SB.

 

[JZCubed]

Very well said!

I was thinking the exact same thing about packing an extra 3,000 people into already overcrowded parks. Ummm...yay?? This is a "success" to the visitor how?

I think Disney is seriously underestimating the "word of mouth" effect. When hoards of previously fanatical Disney lovers stop cheerleading for Disney and instead start griping about overcrowding/long lines/ FP+/ etc., the seemingly endless stream of once-in-a-life timers and shiny-eyed newbies will eventually dry up. Those loyal, repeat cheerleaders were the ones helping to create the demand for the "I'm finally going to Disneyworld!" type visitors.

It obviously didn't happen last year (most trips were planned long before this debacle was truly underway), it may not happen this year or even next year. But it will eventually happen if things continue down this path. A company can only rely on past goodwill for so long before that is simply not enough.

I have been a *huge* Disney cheerleader for years now. I can't count how many friends and family members I have personally convinced to go to Disney by my rave reviews and glowing post-trip feedback.

Recently? Well, lets just say that I no longer feel confident recommending Disney to anyone right now. In the past few months, the four families that I attempted to help/re-adjust plans that had been previously booked, came home with mostly negative experiences. From the technology "glitches" that they experienced, to the excessive amount of "annoying" (their word) preplanning, to the rude and overwhelmed CMs, to the long lines...not one single family I know who has traveled there in the last several months has any desire to return.

In fact, my co-worker who was there last week was stunned at how crowded the parks were on a week of mainly 3-4 crowd level predictions. She had a horrible experience at DHS, and was upset that she consistently had to wait in 50-90 minute lines in MK. In fact, she ended up only spending 2 of her four days at Disney and spent the other 2 at US. When she returned to the office, she single-handedly convinced another co-worker who had been considering an upcoming Disney trip to skip Disney altogether and head elsewhere.

I understand that my personal experiences are anecdotal; however, they aren't happening in a vacuum. As PP said, check out the Disney Facebook page reviews or look at other avid Disney fan sites...people are unhappy/upset right now. This isn't one or two people griping about a random bad trip; this is numerous, numerous people all complaining about one general problem (the thing that Disney happened to dump a huge amount of money into).

This report speaks of anything but "success" to me. If Disney's intent is to keep cramming as many people as they can into the parks using the premise of MM+ (without adding capacity), then in my personal view of success, the future looks very bleak indeed.

I appreciate the recognition of anecdotes. I have my own.

Friends of ours recently returned from their first Disney vacation. They happened to go during the week of Christmas and left just before New Years - one of the busiest times of the year.

They stayed at Swan & Dolphin (because all deluxe resorts were sold out by the time they decided to go) and, therefore, could not utilize advanced FP+ system. However, FP+ was available day-of at Park kiosks and this was invaluable to their experience.

Moreover, their once-in-a-lifetime trip became, "When can we go with your family?"

People who complain of crowds remind me of the Yogi Berra expression:

"Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded."

 

[surferdave]

I think some people just don't like change

Ah, the tired old fallback of the hapless middle manager when he can't come up with anything else.

I'm sure those of us who have waited in long lines to talk to CMs, who have scratched our heads at the long lines that are now forming at attractions that didn't have them before, and who struggled with the error messages about glitches and blips when they tried to use MDE in the parks (if they got a WiFi signal at all) should all just feel sheepish about not liking change and start planning our nest trip.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I think disney is losing a PR battle, if they arent, then why are so many people, upset, scared, and nervous about the new system........

I would say that most DisneyWorld vacationers have no clue about FP+ and couldn't care less either way. As people are constantly being referred to me for Disney planning help (as I'm sure we all do,) nobody yet has a single clue about FP+.

Have tried it, that being said it has potential to be good but, as the system is now hated it. We are locals and everyone I work with that has passes dislikes the new system. Hopefully there will be some changes in the limits and everyone will feel better about it.

The only APs who "hate" the FP+/MM+ experience are those who haven't stayed onsite and received their Magic Bands yet. Otherwise, there's no reason to dislike.

 

[sunkissed4]

It drives me crazy when people say "Oh you don't like change" or "Most FP+ haters haven't even tried it." I'm local, we've used FP+ at least 10-15 times since it's started and I'm still not sold. It doesn't work for our family and touring strategy like FP- did, not yet.

No, I don't think it's a total failure yet and I do think there will be progress by adding park hopping capabilities in the future. (Hopefully)

Just because I'm not a cheerleader for FP+ doesn't mean I don't have experience with the new system or am afraid of change. I don't label the FP+ lovers, so please stop labeling those of us with concerns about the new system, especially those of us with LOTS of experience using it.

 

[MichiganDVC]

I would like to mention that if Disney allows more than 3 FP+ per day, then your ability to change your FP+ experiences decreases. It would be more restrictive like the FP- was: locked into a time with no flexibility.

I do NOT want them to add more FP+ per day for this reason, so people who hope/want for more FP+ per day need to realize the drawback of doing this.

 

[JZCubed]

You can't base an assessment of Disney's financials on an article from Variety -- they're basically just reprinting what Disney gives them. The analysts covering Disney have been uncharacteristically slow in coming out with their reviews this week -- should have had articles and interviews from them at least by today. They're the people that re-crunch the numbers and say whether things actually make sense.

3k more people in the parks just means they didn't close the gates at 40k in MK. Nothing more. And they even said in the earnings release that their revenues were up because of price increases.

Fp+ is like DDP in this way: the only problem with DDP is that you have to book so far out because there aren't enough decent TS's that you could change your plans day of and get seated. FP+ is a bad idea because there aren't enough decent rides in the parks. None of this would be an issue if the alternative to using a fp was a 90 minutes wait in SB.

It matters little if the quarterly results were published in the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, or Variety - the numbers are the same. And despite the costs of MDE/FP+, profits increased by 16%.

Mr Iger's quote about the success of FP+ and it's ability to increase profits for Disney is not to taken lightly. He is subject to SEC inquiries if he is lying or misleading. Analysts can dispute the level of impact, but Mr. Iger cannot lie about there being an impact.

I am amazed by your notion that, "FP+ is a bad idea because there aren't enough decent rides in the parks." Record attendance tells a far different story. Moreover, and on the same notion, price increases (apparent in room rates long before guests arrived) did not keep people away from the Parks. Adding 3,000 daily visitors to MK is 6% attendance increase (assuming 50,000 visitors). Disney's formula is working far better than you suggest.

I also dispute your understanding of DDP. Disney now has far greater knowledge about the demand for food on any given day because of DDP. This allows Disney to properly staff TS restaurants and have the appropriate amount of food. And while I recognize that not being able to chose a last minute TS option is frustrating, the same can be said for any deluxe resort and even cruise ships (where the number of guests is known absolutely). Plainly and simply, an empty seat in a restaurant is worth nothing. Disney has fewer empty seats and this is part of Disney's obligation to maximize profits to shareholders.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I think some people just don't like change

I think when you change something that people spend a lot of money on and their vacation time, and its a negative change for them, then yes, they dont like it.

 

[Mommy2Corinne]

It matters little if the quarterly results were published in the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, or Variety - the numbers are the same. And despite the costs of MDE/FP+, profits increased by 16%.

Mr Iger's quote about the success of FP+ and it's ability to increase profits for Disney is not to taken lightly. He is subject to SEC inquiries if he is lying or misleading. Analysts can dispute the level of impact, but Mr. Iger cannot lie about there being an impact.

I am amazed by your notion that, "FP+ is a bad idea because there aren't enough decent rides in the parks." Record attendance tells a far different story. Moreover, and on the same notion, price increases (apparent in room rates long before guests arrived) did not keep people away from the Parks. Adding 3,000 daily visitors to MK is 6% attendance increase (assuming 50,000 visitors). Disney's formula is working far better than you suggest.

I also dispute your understanding of DDP. Disney now has far greater knowledge about the demand for food on any given day because of DDP. This allows Disney to properly staff TS restaurants and have the appropriate amount of food. And while I recognize that not being able to chose a last minute TS option is frustrating, the same can be said for any deluxe resort and even cruise ships (where the number of guests is known absolutely). Plainly and simply, an empty seat in a restaurant is worth nothing. Disney has fewer empty seats and this is part of Disney's obligation to maximize profits to shareholders.

You still haven't answered the question that PPs have posed. How is packing an additional 3,000 visitors (or a 6% increase as you pointed out) and striving to pack even more than that into the already overcrowded parks using MM+ as a crutch for insufficient infrastructure a "success" for the average visitor?

I understand if you want to argue that such numbers are successful to corporate (although I explained in my PP why I personally feel that such a strategy can't possibly win in the long run), but how is this a good thing for the actual vacationers? I would really like to try to understand this logic.

 

[ChipnDale79]

With all due respect, could you please be more specif.

While I understand the website launched with far too many glitches, and continues to be imperfect, I cannot understand why anyone would be, "pset, scared, and nervous about the new system."

These words seem like overkill.

It's not overkill at all, maybe I'm not like most people and when i drop 3-4 thousands of dollars and a week of my vacation it is a big deal to me.

Not only is it an investment of my money, but its an investment of my time away from work which I don't get much of. When things change so much that it could take away from my vacation experience, then yes it does upset me.

I'm also nervous about taking my in-laws for their first trip in over 30 years, I have a feeling with the way things are this will be their very last trip. Even with grandkids that are hitting the perfect age for disney.....

I'm nervous that my vacation will be spent running from FP+ attraction to my ADRs and not having time between those reservations to do anything else.

It may be overkill to you, but to me its not.

 

[Laketravis]

Analysts can dispute the level of impact, but Mr. Iger cannot lie about there being an impact.

Read up on "forward looking statements".

Here, I'll save you the trouble:

"A forward-looking statement is a statement that cannot sustain itself as merely a historical fact. A forward-looking statement predicts, projects, or uses future events as expectations or possibilities. These statements can often be misleading, as they can be mistaken for factual statements, while they are actually speculation. According to US Code 15 Section 78u-5, a forward-looking statement can include statement of any of the following: future economic performance (ex: revenues, income, etc.), plans for future operations, or use of a report written by an outside reviewer."

Of course they cannot outright and knowingly lie. That may be why Rasulo offered this response to the question posed by Bank of America / Merrill Lynch in regards to how much more the project is going to cost:

"What we spend on MM+ and how we account for that I don't really want to get into that".

 

[glocon]

I haven't gone back and looked at posts when FP was originally put into place but I do remember when FP+ negative reports came out people started dredging up old threads full of similar concerns from when FP first started. I was on the boards here when they started enforcing FP return times and there was the same kind of negativity that FP+ is encountering. People said it would ruin their vacation, that being constrained to that window would mean they had no freedom, etc.... Same complaints in different packaging.

I get where the idea that someone might feel that it has a negative impact because they cannot tour the way they used to. But I also think that if its truly a negative impact then those people should probably find somewhere else to vacation. Because really, if it's that bad then go somewhere that doesn't stress you out, make you angry or unhappy. Vacations are supposed to be fun.

Yep, I think that is what is going to start happening....people will go somewhere else that doesn't stress them out, make them angry or unhappy. Because vacations are supposed to be fun.

 

[anna08]

Really don't we have to wait and see what the economic impact of FP+ will be? They just removed FP- mid January, so last quarter earnings don't reflect the impact at all. I think a lot of people will give it one try - one more vacation with FP+ to see what it's all about and then decide if it's better or a hassle. This is why they need to get it right quickly - there aren't many who will spend thousands of dollars on a vacation and repeat unless it's pretty fantastic.

I think the first quarter of 2015 will be a better indicator of how FP+ has worked.

 

[JZCubed]

I would like to mention that if Disney allows more than 3 FP+ per day, then your ability to change your FP+ experiences decreases. It would be more restrictive like the FP- was: locked into a time with no flexibility.

I do NOT want them to add more FP+ per day for this reason, so people who hope/want for more FP+ per day need to realize the drawback of doing this.

I wholeheartedly agree.

My apologies if I was misinterpreted.

The problem with number of FP+ for many people is not the three/day limitation, it is the 7-days per quarter for Annual Passholders.