MDE & FP+ are NOT failures

[Tuffcookie]

Very well said!

I was thinking the exact same thing about packing an extra 3,000 people into already overcrowded parks. Ummm...yay?? This is a "success" to the visitor how?

I think Disney is seriously underestimating the "word of mouth" effect. When hoards of previously fanatical Disney lovers stop cheerleading for Disney and instead start griping about overcrowding/long lines/ FP+/ etc., the seemingly endless stream of once-in-a-life timers and shiny-eyed newbies will eventually dry up. Those loyal, repeat cheerleaders were the ones helping to create the demand for the "I'm finally going to Disneyworld!" type visitors.

It obviously didn't happen last year (most trips were planned long before this debacle was truly underway), it may not happen this year or even next year. But it will eventually happen if things continue down this path. A company can only rely on past goodwill for so long before that is simply not enough.

I have been a *huge* Disney cheerleader for years now. I can't count how many friends and family members I have personally convinced to go to Disney by my rave reviews and glowing post-trip feedback.

Recently? Well, lets just say that I no longer feel confident recommending Disney to anyone right now. In the past few months, the four families that I attempted to help/re-adjust plans that had been previously booked, came home with mostly negative experiences. From the technology "glitches" that they experienced, to the excessive amount of "annoying" (their word) preplanning, to the rude and overwhelmed CMs, to the long lines...not one single family I know who has traveled there in the last several months has any desire to return.

In fact, my co-worker who was there last week was stunned at how crowded the parks were on a week of mainly 3-4 crowd level predictions. She had a horrible experience at DHS, and was upset that she consistently had to wait in 50-90 minute lines in MK. In fact, she ended up only spending 2 of her four days at Disney and spent the other 2 at US. When she returned to the office, she single-handedly convinced another co-worker who had been considering an upcoming Disney trip to skip Disney altogether and head elsewhere.

I understand that my personal experiences are anecdotal; however, they aren't happening in a vacuum. As PP said, check out the Disney Facebook page reviews or look at other avid Disney fan sites...people are unhappy/upset right now. This isn't one or two people griping about a random bad trip; this is numerous, numerous people all complaining about one general problem (the thing that Disney happened to dump a huge amount of money into).

This report speaks of anything but "success" to me. If Disney's intent is to keep cramming as many people as they can into the parks using the premise of MM+ (without adding capacity), then in my personal view of success, the future looks very bleak indeed.

I agree to the bolded. These people had their trips booked long before FP+ and MDE/MB was rolled out.

TC

 

[luvthemouse71]

Loved MB and FP+. It's great for those who din't need to be all crazy at the parks and those who like to sleep in. I don't mind the tiering either- i thought I would.

 

[MichiganDVC]

[/B]

Yep, I think that is what is going to start happening....people will go somewhere else that doesn't stress them out, make them angry or unhappy. Because vacations are supposed to be fun.

I feel so sorry for people for whom Disney has become a place of anger, unhappiness, and stress. Of course, I just spent the last 30 minutes listening to Epcot Entrance Area loop on DCot so I could find my happy place.

 

[Robo]

The problem with number of FP+ for many people is not the three/day limitation, it is the 7-days per quarter for Annual Passholders.

OK.

I thought I was keeping up...

When was a "7-day per quarter FP+ limitation for AP holders" instituted?

 

[JZCubed]

Read up on "forward looking statements".

Here, I'll save you the trouble:

"A forward-looking statement is a statement that cannot sustain itself as merely a historical fact. A forward-looking statement predicts, projects, or uses future events as expectations or possibilities. These statements can often be misleading, as they can be mistaken for factual statements, while they are actually speculation. According to US Code 15 Section 78u-5, a forward-looking statement can include statement of any of the following: future economic performance (ex: revenues, income, etc.), plans for future operations, or use of a report written by an outside reviewer."

Of course they cannot outright and knowingly lie. That may be why Rasulo offered this response to the question posed by Bank of America / Merrill Lynch in regards to how much more the project is going to cost:

"What we spend on MM+ and how we account for that I don't really want to get into that".

Credibility is part of forward looking statements.

If Mr. Iger, or any CEO/CFO, is shown to be wrong for any number of forward looking statements, then Analysts will no longer provide benefit of the doubt when formulating their own projections.

Mr. Iger did not paint an unrealistic picture nor did he try to suggest that increased revenue was all because of MM+. To the contrary, My. Iger was cautious in describing MM+, nevertheless, he did suggest that MM+ was responsible for some increase in revenue.

As to how MM+ is accounted for - we know that the money has been spent/invested. Is it possible the current Balance Sheet and/or Income Statement does not reflect the full-cost due to the smoke & mirrors of depreciation? Possibly and likely.

But in my mind, this does not matter as long as MM+ has even limited success in driving up revenue. And the past results and forward looking guidance from Mr. Iger is that MM+ is already and will keep increasing revenue. We (and the Analysts) are only debating by how much.

 

[poppinspenguins]

I would say that most DisneyWorld vacationers have no clue about FP+ and couldn't care less either way. As people are constantly being referred to me for Disney planning help (as I'm sure we all do,) nobody yet has a single clue about FP+.



The only APs who "hate" the FP+/MM+ experience are those who haven't stayed onsite and received their Magic Bands yet. Otherwise, there's no reason to dislike.

Wow, i know this is an internet board and all, but as my old English teacher would say "The audacity!"

Im not an AP, but I think this is a ridiculous statement.
1. WHY should an AP have to stay onsite (even once) to get the advantage? A huge majority live nearby and have no need to stay on site. Even doing it once at a value with a discount is still like basically adding at the least 80 on to the hefly sum you have paid for your AP.

I am not an AP as I stated, but I did stay onsite in November and did not like FP. I most have been mistaken!!!!! According to your logic, I must be wrong. I did like it I just didnt realize it.

Im truly am happy for you if FP has benefitted you. But being so dismissive of someones else's experience (mind you, not what they think their experience might be....what actually happened) is patronizing.

I am also patiently waiting for someone to tell me why 3000 extra people is good. As a consumer....I know its good for Disney and stockholders. But why exactly is it good for a fan? If someone says its good because they will reinvest that money into better bigger more rides i might vomit. I dont want to vomit today. Please dont make me vomit. Also there are reports that new fantasyland added 20000 in capacity. So, 23000 extra people in the park. My husband and I felt that our early November trip was more packed that our 2 summer trips we have taken. Maybe this is why!!!

I have also posted this before. We bought 10 day non expiring park hoppers about 3 years ago to use as one day visits when we visit Tampa (to see family) once or twice a year. I have yet to have anyone tell me why my experience is now better. We dont know the day we are coming...we go based on weather. We have a long drive, we dont go at rope drop.(we could start doing that, but we never had to before....right there is a downgrade) Our park hopper is basically useless. We are obviously offsiters, why get a hotel when we can drive over.

I FULLY admit that it can be nice for some people. If that is you-GREAT! But, I repeat It doesnt make me a luddite or someone scared of change. It makes me a person that looks at the bottom dollar and realizes we arent getting the same product as we bought into. We had planned on buying another 10 day non expiring before the summer price increase. That is not happening now. Disney lost approx 1300 from that purchase. That would not have shown up in this report. AP not renewing would not show up in this report.

We are not using are remaining tix this yr...we are seeing where this all settles. We are speaking with our dollars...We are doing busch gardens and sea world this spring...and the beach, lots of time at the free free free beach.

So, as i stated earlier...This previous earnings report is not really informative...it is down the road that will be intriguing.

 

[JZCubed]

OK.

I thought I was keeping up...

When was a "7-day per quarter FP+ limitation for AP holders" instituted?

I honestly thought this was the policy. No?

I have no intention of confusing people.

I know that AP can book FP 60-days in advance, I did it yesterday.

So let me ask then, at the present time, can AP book as many days of FP+ as they like without staying on-site?

 

[mesaboy2]

I honestly thought this was the policy. No?
I have no intention of confusing people.

I know that AP can book FP 60-days in advance, I did it yesterday.

So let me ask then, at the present time, can AP book as many days of FP+ as they like without staying on-site?

No. It is a rolling 7-day period. AP holders can have up to a maximum of 7 days FP+ prebooked at any single time. Once a day of those FP+s go by, they can prebook them for another day.

 

[Robo]

I honestly thought this was the policy. No?

I have no intention of confusing people.

I know that AP can book FP 60-days in advance, I did it yesterday.

So let me ask then, at the present time, can AP book as many days of FP+ as they like without staying on-site?

The rule for non-site guests with AP's (after at least one on-site stay) is "up to 7-days of FP+ in advance."
BUT, after you USE the first day of FP+, another day becomes available.
So it is a "rolling 7 days."

 

[ucfknight]

I honestly thought this was the policy. No?

I have no intention of confusing people.

I know that AP can book FP 60-days in advance, I did it yesterday.

So let me ask then, at the present time, can AP book as many days of FP+ as they like without staying on-site?

The AP limit is 7 booked FP+ days in a rolling 60 day window. You can book up to 7 days out of the next 60 to start with. As soon as you use your first booked FP+ day, you now only have 6 days booked. You can then book another day right away so you are up to your limit of 7 booked FP+ days at a time. So as you use a day of FP+, you open up another day you can book.

 

[wisblue]

You still haven't answered the question that PPs have posed. How is packing an additional 3,000 visitors (or a 6% increase as you pointed out) and striving to pack even more than that into the already overcrowded parks using MM+ as a crutch for insufficient infrastructure a "success" for the average visitor?

I understand if you want to argue that such numbers are successful to corporate (although I explained in my PP why I personally feel that such a strategy can't possibly win in the long run), but how is this a good thing for the actual vacationers? I would really like to try to understand this logic.

When I saw that 3000 number, I interpreted it this way.

Disney has capacity numbers that I understand are based in part of fire/safety laws. I don't care to repeat the various levels of closure here but, during the Christmas holiday, it is common for the MK to close to at least some guests, usually during the late morning or early afternoon, and then reopen later in the day, frequently as guests who arrived earlier in the day leave after the afternoon parade.

I read Disney's statement as saying that they had higher attendance at the MK this year than in previous years during the Christmas holiday season. I'm not sure how they could say conclusively that FP+ was the cause of this, but one possibility is that their data is telling them that more guests spent less time in the park because they were able to use their FP+ reservations to enjoy their favorite attractions in less park time than they would have otherwise. Guests with early FP+ reservations may have been more likely to leave the park after using their FP+ reservations, and guests with afternoon or evening reservations may have arrived later than they would have otherwise, secure in the knowledge that they could enjoy 3 of their favorite attractions with short waits, something that would not have been possible with paper FP.

Essentially, Disney may be saying that FP+ enabled them to spread out the distribution of the crowd and increase "turnover" in the park, something that is really only important to them when the park is near capacity.

Just my interpretation.

 

[redrosesix]

It matters little if the quarterly results were published in the Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, or Variety - the numbers are the same. And despite the costs of MDE/FP+, profits increased by 16%.

Mr Iger's quote about the success of FP+ and it's ability to increase profits for Disney is not to taken lightly. He is subject to SEC inquiries if he is lying or misleading. Analysts can dispute the level of impact, but Mr. Iger cannot lie about there being an impact.

I am amazed by your notion that, "FP+ is a bad idea because there aren't enough decent rides in the parks." Record attendance tells a far different story. Moreover, and on the same notion, price increases (apparent in room rates long before guests arrived) did not keep people away from the Parks. Adding 3,000 daily visitors to MK is 6% attendance increase (assuming 50,000 visitors). Disney's formula is working far better than you suggest.

I also dispute your understanding of DDP. Disney now has far greater knowledge about the demand for food on any given day because of DDP. This allows Disney to properly staff TS restaurants and have the appropriate amount of food. And while I recognize that not being able to chose a last minute TS option is frustrating, the same can be said for any deluxe resort and even cruise ships (where the number of guests is known absolutely). Plainly and simply, an empty seat in a restaurant is worth nothing. Disney has fewer empty seats and this is part of Disney's obligation to maximize profits to shareholders.

It absolutely does matter who publishes an article, but even more so Variety doesn't offer any analysis of what was sent to them in the press release or said in the broadcast -- re-read and you'll see it says "Iger said" and "Disney posted" throughout. Variety may have the experts on staff to explain why a movie bombed but this article doesn't analyse any of the numbers that were presented by Disney themselves. A few analysts are now putting out articles, but I've seen none that commented on the figures from the parks division. Most are keeping it as a buy based on the story at the studios -- a division that is no longer seen as a complete failure.

I too was hopeful that FP+ would be great (I do like change, in marketing terms I'm what they call an "early adopter") but I'm really really disappointed in how this has been implemented and in how much they have spent on the NextGen project. Nobody is perfect, no company is perfect and I don't understand at all why Dis members have to defend Disney so strongly that they totally disregard logical statements by other members.

No matter how you spin it, letting 3k more people into the parks over Christmas was not an amazing feat. And turning people off the DDP by having no available seats in the TS restaurants is not something worthy of applause. It ticks off the customer and means more people eat their expensive meals offsite. It means less money, not more, to return to me down the road because less people will be willing to use the DDP. This is not the company I would want to invest in, except maybe as a day trade (Full disclosure: I don't own any shares in Disney because I live in Canada and I don't want to deal with the complications of exchange rate risk)

Disney doesn't need cheerleaders. We give them our money in return for services. We don't owe them anything and everyone has the right to objectively criticize any aspect of their business. If you can't concede that they can do something wrong then you aren't really reading any of the posts in this thread. You want to build a better wdw? Listen to other guests, consider whether their complaints can be remedied and implement changes to provide better services to more people at a price which will continue this trend into the future.

 

[rluey29]

I have no reason to dislike something.???

 

[poppinspenguins]

Disney doesn't need cheerleaders. We give them our money in return for services. We don't owe them anything and everyone has the right to objectively criticize any aspect of their business. If you can't concede that they can do something wrong then you aren't really reading any of the posts in this thread. You want to build a better wdw? Listen to other guests, consider whether their complaints can be remedied and implement changes to provide better services to more people at a price which will continue this trend into the future.

Amazing post.

I am constantly amazed at the loyalty of some fans. I love Disney as much as the next guy, (even going to a Disney on Ice type thing in a couple weeks!) but I dont feel their have earned my eternal loyalty. I am not going to fight for them tooth and nail and defend eveything they do. They are a service. I pay for the service. If they change that service my first thought will not be, They are Disney they know what they are doing, this is going to be awesome! Those that do are a marketers dream. Disney is infallible in their eyes.

An old professor always tried to convince us to give in the University annual Alum fundraiser. He said we needed to give back because they gave us so much. Well, no. I paid tuition (myself, not my parents!). The university did provide an excellent service. THAT I PAID FOR. Disney has given me yrs of awesome memories, but that doesnt mean I need to accept all changes with a smile and donate more money. Yes, we will eventually go back, it will just be awhile. We still have those non expiring tix, and my momma taught me not to waste

Other places are currently earning my vacation dollars, Disney will need to earn them back.

 

[redrosesix]

Wow, i know this is an internet board and all, but as my old English teacher would say "The audacity!"

Im not an AP, but I think this is a ridiculous statement.
1. WHY should an AP have to stay onsite (even once) to get the advantage? A huge majority live nearby and have no need to stay on site. Even doing it once at a value with a discount is still like basically adding at the least 80 on to the hefly sum you have paid for your AP.

I am not an AP as I stated, but I did stay onsite in November and did not like FP. I most have been mistaken!!!!! According to your logic, I must be wrong. I did like it I just didnt realize it.

Im truly am happy for you if FP has benefitted you. But being so dismissive of someones else's experience (mind you, not what they think their experience might be....what actually happened) is patronizing.

I am also patiently waiting for someone to tell me why 3000 extra people is good. As a consumer....I know its good for Disney and stockholders. But why exactly is it good for a fan? If someone says its good because they will reinvest that money into better bigger more rides i might vomit. I dont want to vomit today. Please dont make me vomit. Also there are reports that new fantasyland added 20000 in capacity. So, 23000 extra people in the park. My husband and I felt that our early November trip was more packed that our 2 summer trips we have taken. Maybe this is why!!!

I have also posted this before. We bought 10 day non expiring park hoppers about 3 years ago to use as one day visits when we visit Tampa (to see family) once or twice a year. I have yet to have anyone tell me why my experience is now better. We dont know the day we are coming...we go based on weather. We have a long drive, we dont go at rope drop.(we could start doing that, but we never had to before....right there is a downgrade) Our park hopper is basically useless. We are obviously offsiters, why get a hotel when we can drive over.

I FULLY admit that it can be nice for some people. If that is you-GREAT! But, I repeat It doesnt make me a luddite or someone scared of change. It makes me a person that looks at the bottom dollar and realizes we arent getting the same product as we bought into. We had planned on buying another 10 day non expiring before the summer price increase. That is not happening now. Disney lost approx 1300 from that purchase. That would not have shown up in this report. AP not renewing would not show up in this report.

We are not using are remaining tix this yr...we are seeing where this all settles. We are speaking with our dollars...We are doing busch gardens and sea world this spring...and the beach, lots of time at the free free free beach.

So, as i stated earlier...This previous earnings report is not really informative...it is down the road that will be intriguing.

everything -- great points

As for the bolded part... if somebody posted on here that their luggage was lost by an airline, would you seriously tell them "nah, that didn't happen" or "you should like it because you still get to be in the most magical place in the world". Of course not. So many people have posted that they had to get help from CMs, concierge, etc. I posted that I was unable to get a fp for a particular ride for next Thursday -- somebody came back the next day and said it was available for any day next week --- soooooo whaaaat?! If you were there looking over my shoulder you'd have seen it yourself. Seriously, it is a new system. It is still being updated. Disney does not have a great track record for IT stuff. It is nothing but mean and bullying behaviour to dismiss somebody's experiences in that way.

And yes, I see this mostly from the FP+ supporters. I have yet to see anybody post "no, I don't believe you even got on that ride. You're lying about FP+ working at all".

 

[wisblue]

Simple logic.

"I do not hate FP+" DOES NOT EQUAL "Disney can do no wrong."

Just like "I hate FP+" does not equal "I hate change".

 

[JimmyV]

Why is it that whenever someone criticizes FP+, someone has to say: "The only people who hate it are the few hundred complainers on this board"? The implication is that the remaining millions of Disney guests love it or will love it. Isn't the converse equally possible? That the only people who love it are the few dozen people praising it on this board and the rest of the millions of Disney guests hate it? Both positions are equally flawed. Can we strike a deal? I won't jump to the conclusion that only a handful of people love it due to the fact that the praise keeps coming from the same few dozen people if you don't jump to the conclusion that only a few hundred people hate it because the complaints keep coming from that subset of people. Deal?

 

[surferdave]

"But my luggage didn't get lost so I don't understand why you have a problem. You probably did something wrong. "

 

[mom2rtk]

"But my luggage didn't get lost so I don't understand why you have a problem. You probably did something wrong. "

 

[poppinspenguins]

Simple logic.

"I do not hate FP+" DOES NOT EQUAL "Disney can do no wrong."

Just like "I hate FP+" does not equal "I hate change".

I agree. My point was that I have seen some posters (not all, or even the majority) absolutely refute any negativity with "you havent tried it" or "you just cant accept change"

I freely admit, and all of my measly 10 posts indicate this. If you love it great, if you dont great. I dont tell people that love it that they are somehow wrong.

My situation is unique and I think if someone is truing being unbiased they could concede that yes, my situation is a little worse than before. Is it the worst thing ever no. I EASILY concede that for some FP could make for an absolutly awesome trip if it fits their style. I would love to see a stauch supporter say ...."Yes, Poppinspenguins, your experience has been downgraded I could see why you are not a fan. I am a fan but see that its not beneficial in your situation" That hasn't happened yet.