Max Occupancy in DVC Resorts

[dianeschlicht]

That's the $100,000 question! If the buzz from walking into a clean and well maintained villa doesn't do it, I don't know what will.

So it occurs to me that we could put this right back onto Disney and DVC. If the decor was top quality and kept that way, perhaps people would feel guilty about being careless with it.

Take for example BLT. The furnishing there look cheap to me and remind me of a glorified Ikea. The reports have been that some of the furniture is already looking beat up. Maybe if it was high end stuff and kept looking that way, folks would respect it more. I know I for one would feel awful if I defiled something that looked like I couldn't affort to replace it if I had to!

 

[Dean]

I totally agree! So how are we going to get it to turn around? We all do our part, but how do we get the slobs to do their part too?

I think MOST people are pretty good about taking care of things and most likely do better with others things than they do themselves. It's the 10% or so that don't that will likely cause 90% of the issues. However, things like stuffing the rooms will add to the wear and tear even for those that make the effort to otherwise do things the right way. First, one has to accept there will be a certain amount of damage and wear & tear and secondly one has to charge those that cause inappropriate damage enough that the word gets out you're willing to do so. They need to get a backbone. Then they need to rehab the units a little more frequently than they have so far.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I think MOST people are pretty good about taking care of things and most likely do better with others things than they do themselves. It's the 10% or so that don't that will likely cause 90% of the issues. However, things like stuffing the rooms will add to the wear and tear even for those that make the effort to otherwise do things the right way. First, one has to accept there will be a certain amount of damage and wear & tear and secondly one has to charge those that cause inappropriate damage enough that the word gets out you're willing to do so. They need to get a backbone. Then they need to rehab the units a little more frequently than they have so far.

Dean, the bolded part of your quote is right on! I don't know why DVC has such a hard time sticking to their guns when it comes to enforcing those rules! That idea of rehab goes back to my idea of keeping things in top condition too. I still think people would respect a room that looked in top condition.

The first time we stayed at AKV, I was apalled to see so many stains on the carpet and furniture of a unit that was only a couple months old. Then I requested an extra cleaning that I paid for. The housekeeping was less than stellar, and they didn't even bother to vacuumn the crumbs up! I complained, and when they came back to redo it, I was there. The housekeeper took a mop and "swept" the kitchen floor onto the carpet and then vacuumned the carpet. No wonder the carpet was already in such bad shape! There was already terrible traffic wear on it too, like when you don't keep it clean and the pile breaks down. Sad that it was happening so soon. It looks to me like maybe DVC is trying to cut corners on quality of some of the finishes.

 

[Dean]

Dean, the bolded part of your quote is right on! I don't know why DVC has such a hard time sticking to their guns when it comes to enforcing those rules! That idea of rehab goes back to my idea of keeping things in top condition too. I still think people would respect a room that looked in top condition.

The first time we stayed at AKV, I was apalled to see so many stains on the carpet and furniture of a unit that was only a couple months old. Then I requested an extra cleaning that I paid for. The housekeeping was less than stellar, and they didn't even bother to vacuumn the crumbs up! I complained, and when they came back to redo it, I was there. The housekeeper took a mop and "swept" the kitchen floor onto the carpet and then vacuumned the carpet. No wonder the carpet was already in such bad shape! There was already terrible traffic wear on it too, like when you don't keep it clean and the pile breaks down. Sad that it was happening so soon. It looks to me like maybe DVC is trying to cut corners on quality of some of the finishes.

My opinion is that they need a more formal rehab plan based on # of years rather than spot treat, fix and do small things along until they have to do something big. The reality is that DVC is the equivalent of a rental car even to the most careful of members, some will be very careful and some are slobs and unfortunately there are always those that are careful with their stuff and slobs with others, they're the worst IMO.

While DVC is still nice overall and no one themes better, they haven't kept DVC to the level I would like to see it in terms of qualify, nicety and cleanliness. There are many timeshare I can think of that do a much better job in many of these areas than does DVC but there are far more that are worse than DVC. It does hurt somewhat when I realize that with the effort & planning and likely for the same amount of money or less, they could be at the top in every area. Most of these issues are about effort, planning and leadership, not throwing money at the problem.

 

[rabit]

and you were raised correctly! I'm not perfect either but I do expect my son to put a coaster under his drink without being told and I do expect him to pick up if he spills or to at least let me know so that I can clean it up. The condition of some of these villa's & their contents clearly show signs of abuse, that't not a judgement, it's just an observation.

you are 100% correct in your observations,my last stay i was greeted with a disgusting smell as soon as i opened the door ,someone had spilled milk on the carpet at the fridge and didnt bother either cleaning or reporting it . the onus is on dvc to ensure villas are checked and cleaned properly between guests also we can do our part by reporting problems promptly.even with these minor problems dvc was the best decision i have made in a while.

 

[dmoore22]

I was just getting ready to describe one of our experiences when just thinking about it creeped me out. We have found some disgusting artifacts left behind by previous occupants that housekeeping failed to find in their haste to clean the room. During our last visit we spoke with a CM who did share that Disney had been laying off many CMs leaving them understaffed. We try to keep the room neat for our own comfort between scheduled cleanings in addition to leaving a reasonable tip for housekeeping. That seems to help a bit. The folks in housekeeping are barely paid more than minimum wage and are under-appreciated and overworked under the current downsizing at Disney.

 

[tjkraz]

I was just getting ready to describe one of our experiences when just thinking about it creeped me out. We have found some disgusting artifacts left behind by previous occupants that housekeeping failed to find in their haste to clean the room. During our last visit we spoke with a CM who did share that Disney had been laying off many CMs leaving them understaffed.

In this economy most American workers are making due with less. Positions have been eliminated leaving remaining workers to pick up the slack, and many have even been compelled to accept pay cuts. Still most people do what we have to do rather than wasting time complaining to customers about how rough things are.

I am very grateful for the job that Disney housekeepers do and have ALWAYS left a tip behind when we depart. But I hope you're not letting them use these sob stories as an excuse for poor performance. Being short-staffed means that those who remain have to work a bit harder (or longer) to get the job done--just as people are doing in all walks of life. It's not justification for haphazard cleanings which result in "artifacts" being left behind from prior guests.

To me, a dirty room simply means that a Cast Member wasn't committed to staying long enough or moving fast enough to properly clean the room.

That said, I'm not even sure that I buy into the idea that housekeeping staff has been eliminated. Housekeepers are unionized and the local unions do a pretty good job of using the Orlando Sentinel to make all of their grievances public. Last spring when a wave of executive and upper management positions were eliminated, I believe the unions confirmed that none of their workers were displaced. And I don't recall reading anything lately about union workers being laid off.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

That said, I'm not even sure that I buy into the idea that housekeeping staff has been eliminated. Housekeepers are unionized and the local unions do a pretty good job of using the Orlando Sentinel to make all of their grievances public. Last spring when a wave of executive and upper management positions were eliminated, I believe the unions confirmed that none of their workers were displaced. And I don't recall reading anything lately about union workers being laid off.

Add to the fact that our dues pay for the staff, so the costs of the housekeepers, etc are not a cost to Disney, they are cost born by all of us members. Reduced staff would need to be reflected in our dues.

 

[Geoff_M]

However, things like stuffing the rooms will add to the wear and tear even for those that make the effort to otherwise do things the right way. First, one has to accept there will be a certain amount of damage and wear & tear and secondly one has to charge those that cause inappropriate damage enough that the word gets out you're willing to do so. They need to get a backbone.

You know, I think it would be fascinating to do an analysis, now that we have DVC 1 BR villas designated as 5 person units as well as the so-called 4 person units, of the actual maintenance costs of the differing categories of villas to see if the theoretical added "wear and tear" of a fifth person can actually statistically be shown to actually exist in terms of maintenance costs.

I agree in theory an extra person walking across a carpet will contribute to wear, as will an extra person flushing the toilet, and ditto for one extra person that may accidentally bang a chair in the wall and leave a mark or drop a glass of grape juice on the carpet and make a stain. But often such theoretical results don't show up in reality across a population as predicted. The problem is that there are often many confounding factors that gum up the predictions. For example, in the case of room "stuffing" (nice pejorative, btw) there's an assumption that when an item wears out, it's primarily caused by the number of uses or actuations. However, that's one part of the equation in many cases. It also assumes that the usage of a repairable item is depended on the number of people in the room. True, some things like toilets, showers, etc. may fall in this category, but many other things (light fixtures, appliances, linens, drapes, etc.) do not.

It'd be interesting to track maintenance costs for different DVC properties over time to see if there's a discernible difference in "4" vs "5" person facilities. Granted, you would also need to normalize for the age of the property and/or consider when it was last rehab'ed, but I think it would be an interesting analysis. My gut tells me that any differences would not be statistically significant. I would also guess that any incremental "wear and tear" by "stuffing" people would be exponential in nature instead of linear.

IMHO, you can argue the issue from a contractual/legal angle and have a bone to pick, but I'm not buying the notion that the "stuffers" are taking money out of your and my pockets. There are way too many variables in play to be able to make such a claim with any level of certainty.

 

[Dean]

You know, I think it would be fascinating to do an analysis, now that we have DVC 1 BR villas designated as 5 person units as well as the so-called 4 person units, of the actual maintenance costs of the differing categories of villas to see if the theoretical added "wear and tear" of a fifth person can actually statistically be shown to actually exist in terms of maintenance costs.

I agree in theory an extra person walking across a carpet will contribute to wear, as will an extra person flushing the toilet, and ditto for one extra person that may accidentally bang a chair in the wall and leave a mark or drop a glass of grape juice on the carpet and make a stain. But often such theoretical results don't show up in reality across a population as predicted. The problem is that there are often many confounding factors that gum up the predictions. For example, in the case of room "stuffing" (nice pejorative, btw) there's an assumption that when an item wears out, it's primarily caused by the number of uses or actuations. However, that's one part of the equation in many cases. It also assumes that the usage of a repairable item is depended on the number of people in the room. True, some things like toilets, showers, etc. may fall in this category, but many other things (light fixtures, appliances, linens, drapes, etc.) do not.

It'd be interesting to track maintenance costs for different DVC properties over time to see if there's a discernible difference in "4" vs "5" person facilities. Granted, you would also need to normalize for the age of the property and/or consider when it was last rehab'ed, but I think it would be an interesting analysis. My gut tells me that any differences would not be statistically significant. I would also guess that any incremental "wear and tear" by "stuffing" people would be exponential in nature instead of linear.

IMHO, you can argue the issue from a contractual/legal angle and have a bone to pick, but I'm not buying the notion that the "stuffers" are taking money out of your and my pockets. There are way too many variables in play to be able to make such a claim with any level of certainty.

I'm sure it'd be an almost impossible study to do. It is my belief that the stuffed room increases wear and tear far more than just the extra person percentage. My guess maybe 40% rather than the 25% that 5 in a sleep 4 would be statistically. OTOH, I have an acquaintance that has been the GM of Marriott hotels and Marriott Timeshares. I asked him this question at one point. His impression was that it did increase the wear and tear but that it was nominal. He felt the largest variable was the type of guests. That spring break type groups were far more destructive than any other choice. However, Marriott tends to have a fixed rehab schedule of 5 yrs for soft goods and 10 yrs for hard goods, so you're really only playing to that and unless you have to do major rehab early under that system it really doesn't matter much. DVC doesn't seem to have a fixed rehab schedule but more when it's needed and in that type of system, wear and tear is going to affect costs and quality far more. Also, I would expect less of a strain on a room set up and designed for 5 compared to one where 5 people were stuffed into a sleep 4 set up so I don't think comparing the resorts with sleep 5 1 BR units to the others would truly answer the question.

 

[dmoore22]

That said, I'm not even sure that I buy into the idea that housekeeping staff has been eliminated. Housekeepers are unionized and the local unions do a pretty good job of using the Orlando Sentinel to make all of their grievances public. Last spring when a wave of executive and upper management positions were eliminated, I believe the unions confirmed that none of their workers were displaced. And I don't recall reading anything lately about union workers being laid off.

The full time union employees have job security. It's the seasonal and part-time that are losing hours. Since we were there last May Disney can't fill all the housekeeping positions available (http://www.simplyhired.com/job-id/stfflj6vbr/housekeeping-jobs/). In spite of being union they do not earn a living wage.

 

[johnnyd727]

Going on our first DVC trip August 2010 and i was just wondering, what is a KTTW card?

 

[jlewisinsyr]

Going on our first DVC trip August 2010 and i was just wondering, what is a KTTW card?

Key To The World, basically your room card that can also have a linked credit card, park tickets, etc...thus the name, Key To The World...

 

[katied]

One quick question so I don't have to bother MS - for the 1 bedroom at GCV, it lists the occupancy as 5 - would that all for 5 plus one infant?

How crowded would that be with 4 adults and 2 kids (one 3 and one 10 months)? Since there are 2 bathrooms, maybe liveable? It would be DSister, DBIL, their 2 kids, and then DBIL's parents.

I was planning on booking a 2 bedroom for them, but only have enough points for 3 nights there. I was going to offer a 1 bedroom option for 4 nights and let them pick, but wanted to make sure first they won't be miserable (and better with 1 less night and more space). The weekends are so expensive at GCV.

Any thoughts?

 

[jlewisinsyr]

How crowded would that be with 4 adults and 2 kids (one 3 and one 10 months)? Since there are 2 bathrooms, maybe liveable? It would be DSister, DBIL, their 2 kids, and then DBIL's parents.

I was planning on booking a 2 bedroom for them, but only have enough points for 3 nights there. I was going to offer a 1 bedroom option for 4 nights and let them pick, but wanted to make sure first they won't be miserable (and better with 1 less night and more space).

Cannot answer your first question, but I definately wouldn't want 6 people in a One Bedroom, no matter what age, would be cramped IMO.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Cannot answer your first question, but I definately wouldn't want 6 people in a One Bedroom, no matter what age, would be cramped IMO.

I'll agree with that one. While you probably can get the entire family in there, it's not going to be that comfortable. And that's the reason this family bought DVC - we enjoy the space and comfort, not trying to squeeze as many trips into as small a space as possible. But not everyone feels that way, so if it's okay for your family, have fun.

 

[katied]

Thanks! I wouldn't do it myself, but I guess I'll leave it up to DSister if she'd like the extra nite under those conditions (I would pick 1 less night and more comfort).

 

[Dean]

One quick question so I don't have to bother MS - for the 1 bedroom at GCV, it lists the occupancy as 5 - would that all for 5 plus one infant?

How crowded would that be with 4 adults and 2 kids (one 3 and one 10 months)? Since there are 2 bathrooms, maybe liveable? It would be DSister, DBIL, their 2 kids, and then DBIL's parents.

I was planning on booking a 2 bedroom for them, but only have enough points for 3 nights there. I was going to offer a 1 bedroom option for 4 nights and let them pick, but wanted to make sure first they won't be miserable (and better with 1 less night and more space). The weekends are so expensive at GCV.

Any thoughts?

If the official occupancy is 5, then they will allow ONE extra if under 3 at the start of the stay. Same for AKV & BLT other than value rooms at AKV.

 

[katied]

Thanks all. When presented with all her choices, DSister decided they could live without a weekend nite, and instead get 4 nites in a 2 bedroom. I think all will be happier that way.

 

[renda460]

If the official occupancy is 5, then they will allow ONE extra if under 4 at the start of the stay. Same for AKV & BLT other than value rooms at AKV.

We did a Value 1 BDR at AKV with 3 adults, 2 children (8 & 5), and one infant and they told us that was fine. It was definitely a tight fit (especially trying to find a spot for the pack n play), but allowed.