Marrieds choosing not to have kids

[maddhatir]

DH and I left a restaurant before b/c of a bratty kid--

We JUST wanted to relax and have a nice meal-- NO!

This freakin' kid is screaming his head off- and of course the parents could care less about anyone else in the place- DH and I got our menus and while trying to decide what to order we heard the kid-we looked at each other and then said A-DI-OS!!!!

WHY do parents think it is OK for the rest of us to put up with YOUR kid's screaming b/c YOU want a night out?!

 

[kennancat]

WHY do parents think it is OK for the rest of us to put up with YOUR kid's screaming b/c YOU want a night out?!

I wonder sometimes if this has changed over the last generation or so. My parents (who clearly had at least one child ) often complain about how no one takes their kids out of restaurants any more. They've told me stories about how frequently one of them ate alone while the other was outside with me. I just find it funny that they complain about it too.

 

[kennancat]

And another thing, I was at a seminar about a month ago that I had to pay for. It was a food demonstration and tasting.

All I can say is I can't even stand to quote your whole post because reading it makes me queasy! Had I been in your situation, I would have yakked, no doubt, and I can guarantee you there would have been some aiming involved

 

[maddhatir]

I wonder sometimes if this has changed over the last generation or so. My parents (who clearly had at least one child ) often complain about how no one takes their kids out of restaurants any more. They've told me stories about how frequently one of them ate alone while the other was outside with me. I just find it funny that they complain about it too.

Lets refer back to Nanny 911- a lot of parents are totally oblivious to just about eveything- they tune the kids out- what do they care

OR, Maybe they think "If I have to suffer, SO DO YOU!"

 

[Hixski]

Lets refer back to Nanny 911- a lot of parents are totally oblivious to just about eveything- they tune the kids out- what do they care

OR, Maybe they think "If I have to suffer, SO DO YOU!"

Oh, don't forget. If you are childfree they don't think you should have an opinion about their precious offspring. We are just overly sensitive because we don't have children.

 

[Mischa]

Oh, don't forget. If you are childfree they don't think you should have an opinion about their precious offspring. We are just overly sensitive because we don't have children.

I can't stand that phrase "...overly sensitive because we don't have children..." I have heard that so many times from former friends who have kids. We've made it a point not to socialize with them because their kids never behave. I have one friend who has 4 kids and none behave - they do whatever they want. I've told her or tried to make the kid behave (at least a little) and she'll say to me "well, you just don't understand - you don't have kids." I'm like "excuse the heck out of me lady!" She usually shuts up when I say "you never acted this way when YOU were growing up, did you?" She's a few years younger than me and she was a very well behaved little girl.

(I had no choice but to be well behaved - I was an only child and my parents were in their 40s when they adopted me, so I hung around older people and just didn't misbehave. Sure I would act up but one look from my mom or dad and I was sitting like an angel!)

Watching parents these days I think "what are you - afraid of your own child?" There is a word they all need to learn and that word is "Discipline"! Learn to discipline your child!

OH! And one of my friends who has a very ADD or HADD kid (whatever he is) thinks that letting people see him acting up with embarrass him into behaving. I refuse to go out to lunch with her if she's bringing him!

I love kids (wish I could have at least one but I can't). But some of these kids that are so out of control - they drive me crazy! Not only do the kids need help - the parents need help in learning how to be the parent.

And ForTheLoveofDisney - I would have been sick if I were in your shoes at that seminar. The writing on himself is one thing, but the nose thing...That's just gross!

The scary thing is...is these are the kids of the future - these kids will one day grow up and probably have kids themselves. Can you imagine their kids and how they will behave???????? I shutter to even think about it!

Gee it feels nice to vent.

 

[vatmark]

Hello! I just wanted to pipe in here. I havent' read through the entire thread but in regards to the orginal post I think people have a right to chose wether they want kids or not. Why is it any of my business. I would rather see someone not have children then have children just because they think they should. Then they stick their kids in daycare at birth. Basically the daycare ends up raising these kids because the parents don't want to be bothered.

I read some of the stories of these parents and kids behavior and it disgusts me as well and I am the mother of 2 kids. Please don't think that all parents and kids behave this way. Yes, a lot do but not all. Me and DH would never allow any of that stuff to go on. Disipline starts at home. My kids are expected to behave at home, in others homes and out in public. If they don't they get their butts handed to them. If they were to start up in a restaurant they would be dragged out. Obviously that little girl on the plane is allowed to act that way at home so why should it be any different in public. And for the parents to be all up in arms is ridiculous. Yes, lets all just sit here on the plane because they can't control their own kid. Just ridiculous!!!!

Me and DH have gone out to lunch before alone w/o kids and have asked to be moved several times because we were next to a family where the kids were all over the place. It's just plain rude. Sometimes I think these parents think it is cute. Oh look at little Johnny going under someone elses table. He is just the cutest thing.

My own sisters kid is not allowed in my house. Yes, it sounds horrible but it's how it's got to be. My kids are taught to respect us, our house, their things and our things and others things. My sisters kids have no respect for their own house so there is no way they are coming in my house. Well at least not the 2 1/2 year old. That kid is a menace and allowed to be that way. He destroys everything-he has broken the ceiling fan globes in his room 2 times, clogged up many a toilet with toothpaste tubes, legos etc. One toilet even had to be pulled up. Writes on walls, took scissors to his pj's, breaks cd's and dvd's in half, poured water into the neighbors mower and into my sisters mower, calls his parenst stupid idiot and me as well etc etc and this was in the last 6 months. I have told my sister that the kid is not allowed into the house until he's 35. Whenever I hear another distruction story the age goes up further. Whenever we have a family holiday it has to be held at her house.

I am not going to let a bratty undisciplined almost 3 year old come into my house(nephew or not) and destroy it. My kids don't why should I let hers.

And my sister would expect me to rearrange my whole house so her kid could come over and she wouldn't have to worry about watching him. God forbid she watch her own kid. She's sent e-mails to others such as my brother and my stepmom who she was going to visit and be staying with and has this big list of things to move etc. Why should anyone have to rearrange their own house for your child. It's called be a parent and watch your child.

Both my kids are in school but I sometimes go out with my sister and her son. Well the kid doesn't want mom to stop and pick up Aunt Ann because he knows I won't put up with his crap when we are out. I end up disiplining him when we are out. I have dragged his little butt down an isle many a time because he wouldn't follow us. Of course he would then run to mommy for protection.

Yes, my sisters kid is one of those kids that would be climbing under tables, on top of tables, running around a restaurant, yelling and carrying on. My sister would just sit there and tune it out and make everyone else have to listen to it.

My sister lives right down the street from me and many times we decide not to go down there because we don't want to have to listen to and deal with their children when we could sit at home while our kids are upstairs behaving and being quiet.

So even though I am a breeder I have to agree and sympathize with you non-breeders. There are a lot of parents out there who just don't disipline their kids and make things miserable for those around them.

Annie

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

Oh, don't forget. If you are childfree they don't think you should have an opinion about their precious offspring. We are just overly sensitive because we don't have children.

I hate this phrase too!! I may not have children but I am not blind in how they are misbehaving!

I can't stand that phrase "...overly sensitive because we don't have children..." I have heard that so many times from former friends who have kids. We've made it a point not to socialize with them because their kids never behave. I have one friend who has 4 kids and none behave - they do whatever they want. I've told her or tried to make the kid behave (at least a little) and she'll say to me "well, you just don't understand - you don't have kids." I'm like "excuse the heck out of me lady!" She usually shuts up when I say "you never acted this way when YOU were growing up, did you?" She's a few years younger than me and she was a very well behaved little girl.

(I had no choice but to be well behaved - I was an only child and my parents were in their 40s when they adopted me, so I hung around older people and just didn't misbehave. Sure I would act up but one look from my mom or dad and I was sitting like an angel!)

Watching parents these days I think "what are you - afraid of your own child?" There is a word they all need to learn and that word is "Discipline"! Learn to discipline your child!

OH! And one of my friends who has a very ADD or HADD kid (whatever he is) thinks that letting people see him acting up with embarrass him into behaving. I refuse to go out to lunch with her if she's bringing him!

I love kids (wish I could have at least one but I can't). But some of these kids that are so out of control - they drive me crazy! Not only do the kids need help - the parents need help in learning how to be the parent.

And ForTheLoveofDisney - I would have been sick if I were in your shoes at that seminar. The writing on himself is one thing, but the nose thing...That's just gross!

The scary thing is...is these are the kids of the future - these kids will one day grow up and probably have kids themselves. Can you imagine their kids and how they will behave???????? I shutter to even think about it!

Gee it feels nice to vent.

I just said this to my sister the other night. When did parents become "afraid" of their children?

And all this crap that parents are fed today. . .

• Don't discipline your children, they need to be free to express themselves.
• Your child can't help but act this way, he/she has ADD/ADHD
• You can't take that away from little Johnnie, you'll hurt his feelings and stunt his emotional growth.
• Don't stifle your child's screams and outbursts, he's just expressing himself and if you say something to him you will give him low self esteem.

It reminds me of an episode of The Unit (love that show ) that was on a few weeks ago.

The plot was, Jonas (one of the head guys in The Unit) went to a party where they were finally awarding his WWII Veteran father with a medal that he should have received years ago. But because he was a black man in segregated times, even though he fought as galiantly as the rest of the troops, the award was long and slow coming as the story goes. Well, Jonas' nephew and his wife show up and in the show, the nephew starts beating on his pregnant wife.

Jonas' gets him off of her and roughs him up himself and says a few choice words and then the nephew tells Jonas'. "They tell me I have PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) and these things are going to happen." And Jonas goes into this long detailed account of how the grandfather, segregated in WWII and when he came home, fought nobley in the worst of situations. How he wasn't respected for doing the same hard, dirty work. How he saw his share of bloodshed and fighting and how he left no man behind (which is why he was getting the medal). Jonas said, "No one told him he had a right to be angry. No one told him it was ok to come back home and beat up on his wife."

I guess my whole point in telling that story is that when I saw it, I DID think of society today. Today, people are told they have conditions which give them the right to do pretty much what they want to do, and a few of these conditions have even gotten people off for crimes they've committed.

I'm not saying that disorders don't exist! I whole-heartedly believe that they do. I just think that these disorders are abused and are a "get out of jail. . . behave how ever you want card."

You're right, you just didn't see this kind of behavior years ago and people didn't act like this. And truth is, I think I had ADD as a child but it never stopped my mother/father from making me behave myself. Do we think that ADD is a new thing? It wasn't around in the 50's or 60's or 70's? No, I just think it was controlled alot better and kids were not allowed to run amuck!

OK, sorry for the long winded post. You guys are my only link to the Childfree world and I guess I get going on my tangets because I finally feel like someone understands and I'm not stepping on somebody's feelings.

Oh, and there was a time that DH and I yearned for a child too, but due to medical circumstances we couldn't. Now, I'm leaning more and more (like 95% of the time) to just forget kids.

 

[kennancat]

Well at least not the 2 1/2 year old. That kid is a menace and allowed to be that way.

Dang - not even three and he's already caused that much damage? I wouldn't be surprised if you reported back that his head started spinning and he's spitting up pea soup!

 

[maddhatir]

Hello! I just wanted to pipe in here. I havent' read through the entire thread but in regards to the orginal post I think people have a right to chose wether they want kids or not. Why is it any of my business. I would rather see someone not have children then have children just because they think they should. Then they stick their kids in daycare at birth. Basically the daycare ends up raising these kids because the parents don't want to be bothered.

I read some of the stories of these parents and kids behavior and it disgusts me as well and I am the mother of 2 kids. Please don't think that all parents and kids behave this way. Yes, a lot do but not all. Me and DH would never allow any of that stuff to go on. Disipline starts at home. My kids are expected to behave at home, in others homes and out in public. If they don't they get their butts handed to them. If they were to start up in a restaurant they would be dragged out. Obviously that little girl on the plane is allowed to act that way at home so why should it be any different in public. And for the parents to be all up in arms is ridiculous. Yes, lets all just sit here on the plane because they can't control their own kid. Just ridiculous!!!!

Me and DH have gone out to lunch before alone w/o kids and have asked to be moved several times because we were next to a family where the kids were all over the place. It's just plain rude. Sometimes I think these parents think it is cute. Oh look at little Johnny going under someone elses table. He is just the cutest thing.

My own sisters kid is not allowed in my house. Yes, it sounds horrible but it's how it's got to be. My kids are taught to respect us, our house, their things and our things and others things. My sisters kids have no respect for their own house so there is no way they are coming in my house. Well at least not the 2 1/2 year old. That kid is a menace and allowed to be that way. He destroys everything-he has broken the ceiling fan globes in his room 2 times, clogged up many a toilet with toothpaste tubes, legos etc. One toilet even had to be pulled up. Writes on walls, took scissors to his pj's, breaks cd's and dvd's in half, poured water into the neighbors mower and into my sisters mower, calls his parenst stupid idiot and me as well etc etc and this was in the last 6 months. I have told my sister that the kid is not allowed into the house until he's 35. Whenever I hear another distruction story the age goes up further. Whenever we have a family holiday it has to be held at her house.

I am not going to let a bratty undisciplined almost 3 year old come into my house(nephew or not) and destroy it. My kids don't why should I let hers.

And my sister would expect me to rearrange my whole house so her kid could come over and she wouldn't have to worry about watching him. God forbid she watch her own kid. She's sent e-mails to others such as my brother and my stepmom who she was going to visit and be staying with and has this big list of things to move etc. Why should anyone have to rearrange their own house for your child. It's called be a parent and watch your child.

Both my kids are in school but I sometimes go out with my sister and her son. Well the kid doesn't want mom to stop and pick up Aunt Ann because he knows I won't put up with his crap when we are out. I end up disiplining him when we are out. I have dragged his little butt down an isle many a time because he wouldn't follow us. Of course he would then run to mommy for protection.

Yes, my sisters kid is one of those kids that would be climbing under tables, on top of tables, running around a restaurant, yelling and carrying on. My sister would just sit there and tune it out and make everyone else have to listen to it.

My sister lives right down the street from me and many times we decide not to go down there because we don't want to have to listen to and deal with their children when we could sit at home while our kids are upstairs behaving and being quiet.

So even though I am a breeder I have to agree and sympathize with you non-breeders. There are a lot of parents out there who just don't disipline their kids and make things miserable for those around them.

Annie

I for one would like to vote you "Pesident of all Parents" and I will give you your first assignment-- You will be starting a class for parents called:

"NO MORE CUTTING SLACK-- GIVE 'EM JUST A LITTLE WACK"
A Field Guide to Parenting 101

 

[maddhatir]

Oh, don't forget. If you are childfree they don't think you should have an opinion about their precious offspring. We are just overly sensitive because we don't have children.

NO! We are not sensitive....

Its more like parents are just "desensitized"

 

[FantasmicDreams]

I am definately going to look into Airtran as my airline of choice now.

 

[plgrn]

I am definately going to look into Airtran as my airline of choice now.

Wouldn't that be hilarious if their sales dramatically INCREASE because of this incident? Go Airtran!

 

[ForTheLoveofDisney]

I for one would like to vote you "Pesident of all Parents" and I will give you your first assignment-- You will be starting a class for parents called:

"NO MORE CUTTING SLACK-- GIVE 'EM JUST A LITTLE WACK"
A Field Guide to Parenting 101

I'd vote for ya!!

NO! We are not sensitive....

Its more like parents are just "desensitized"

Ain't that the truth!!

What a great comeback! I'm going to tuck that away for future use! "No, I'm not "just" sensitive. You're just desensitized!!" Oh, that's great!!

 

[maddhatir]

We fly Airtran all the time--

December 2005 DH and I took our (3 yr old at the time) niece to Disney (just us) and flew Airtran-- OMG! My worse fear was that she was going to act up on the plane!

My SIL packed her little DVD player and she was good the whole time- I dont even think she spoke much! When we were getting off the plane- the woman in front of us commented to me she didnt even know there was a child behind her. Thank GOD! b/c I know I wouldnt want to deal with a kid behind me- or even around me acting up!

I was telling DH about the Airtran story and he said he was surprised they even booted them b/c it is such a hassel for the airline b/c they have to unload their luggage from below and it takes some time blah blah- I told him I didnt know the full details about what happened to their luggage- he is so techincal-- I AM TELLING YOU ABOUT A BRATTY KID GETTING THROWN OFF THE PLANE AND YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT LUGGAGE

 

[Hixski]

This is a quote from someone witnessing the situation that was on ABC News.com message board.

Quote:
"I was at the gate in Ft. Meyers waiting for the Air Tran flight to take off for Boston so I could board the next arriving flight that would be headed to Atlanta. I witnessed this family 30 minutes prior to their flight taking off and this child was disobedient and unruly to the parents. Several waiting passengers commented on the lack of control. Then I saw the family deplane and the child was absolutely out of control for another 30 to 40 minutes. She was screaming, kicking, and crawling across the floor. The mother had NO control and the father ignored the situation. I am upset that the media has played this as a sympathetic situation to the parents as it was clearly an issue of poor parenting. I too am the mother of two children and this would have NEVER occured as I would have gotten both myself and my child away from the other passengers had either of my children behaved this way."


Someone else was saying the parents are blaming the incident on the airline and now "childless adults".

Quote:
"I find it very offensive that she is putting blame not only on the airline, but on "childless adults"! Sorry lady that is just wrong! The blame is on you and your husband for not having better control of your child."


I just knew we were going to get blamed for this somehow.

 

[MickeyNicki]

DH and I have been married 10 years and were together 6 years before that. We do not want any kids. I have 2 nieces, 4 and 10.5 (going on 30) and that is enough for us. We took them to WDW this past Oct and after that 5 day trip I was for sure not having kids!

I do not feel that I have to justify my reasoning to anyone. We like to travel, have nice cars, live in a quiet state and kids would ruin that for us. Does that make me a bad person?

My mom is a bit freaked out about it, she said that she always thought I would have a ton of kids....I do love kids...other peoples for a short time!

 

[maddhatir]

This is a quote from someone witnessing the situation that was on ABC News.com message board.

Quote:
"I was at the gate in Ft. Meyers waiting for the Air Tran flight to take off for Boston so I could board the next arriving flight that would be headed to Atlanta. I witnessed this family 30 minutes prior to their flight taking off and this child was disobedient and unruly to the parents. Several waiting passengers commented on the lack of control. Then I saw the family deplane and the child was absolutely out of control for another 30 to 40 minutes. She was screaming, kicking, and crawling across the floor. The mother had NO control and the father ignored the situation. I am upset that the media has played this as a sympathetic situation to the parents as it was clearly an issue of poor parenting. I too am the mother of two children and this would have NEVER occured as I would have gotten both myself and my child away from the other passengers had either of my children behaved this way."


Someone else was saying the parents are blaming the incident on the airline and now "childless adults".

Quote:
"I find it very offensive that she is putting blame not only on the airline, but on "childless adults"! Sorry lady that is just wrong! The blame is on you and your husband for not having better control of your child."


I just knew we were going to get blamed for this somehow.

OH! You know whats coming next-- LAWSUIT!!! booo hoooo!

 

[kennancat]

NO! We are not sensitive....

Its more like parents are just "desensitized"

You know, I think this is true, but I don't mean that in a bad way. We were over at our friends' the other day, and they don't notice the kids making random noises in the background like we do. I think you'd have to learn to tune the noise out a bit or it'd drive you nuts!

 

[kennancat]

Quote:
"I was at the gate in Ft. Meyers waiting for the Air Tran flight to take off for Boston so I could board the next arriving flight that would be headed to Atlanta. I witnessed this family 30 minutes prior to their flight taking off and this child was disobedient and unruly to the parents. Several waiting passengers commented on the lack of control. Then I saw the family deplane and the child was absolutely out of control for another 30 to 40 minutes. She was screaming, kicking, and crawling across the floor. The mother had NO control and the father ignored the situation. I am upset that the media has played this as a sympathetic situation to the parents as it was clearly an issue of poor parenting. I too am the mother of two children and this would have NEVER occured as I would have gotten both myself and my child away from the other passengers had either of my children behaved this way."

Dang - too bad nobody filmed it. Bet that would be worth some money now! I did see on the news this morning that the family had to wait 24 hours before they could fly again because they had been kicked off a flight. Now that makes me understand their frustration and why Airtran comp'ed them. While it sounds like these parents have zero control, it would have been nice if they could have taken the next flight out, after she'd finally worn herself out from the screaming. Or after they'd drugged the kid