Marathon Weekend 2017!

[DerTobi75]

This week's question: outside of the race and related activities, what are you most looking forward to about our upcoming trips to WDW? (Yes, you can say DATW, but I better see some creative answers!)

We are arriving december 28th and will hopefully be busy celebrating new years eve, watching all the fireworks and enjoying the crowded parks. One day we had to ride Mako at Seaworld ;-)

BTW, what is DATW?!

 

[ZellyB]

DATW = Drinking Around The World (meaning around the world of Epcot)

 

[DerTobi75]

DATW = Drinking Around The World (meaning around the world of Epcot)

Oh, that sounds like fun

 

[pixarmom]

20 miles today. On the treadmill - I ran 4 miles outside yesterday and it's just too cold for 20. This will be my second marathon, and I was dreading the 20-miler more than the last time. But in the end, it was far easier than my 20-milers from the last marathon training cycle. Lessons learned:

1. I didn't "hurry" as much for water breaks as I did in the past. I stop at the same miles as the Disney aid stations, and last time, I took super fast sips and then sped up again immediately. This time, I walked for maybe 30 seconds - as if I were walking through an aid station - because that's what I do during the race.

2. I'm glad I went to 20, and I plan to do 20 again next month. I think this was good to remind me of the distance post-15 miles - it's long but manageable!

3. I didn't feel tired until mile 15, but that was a combination of tired and bored. So I sped up at mile 17 and was much happier. I use the same "reset" mentality that @DopeyBadger described - it's really helpful! I sort of wonder if I should do these long runs at a faster pace - but maybe the reason I can speed up easily at the end is because of the slow pace pre-mile 17. Welcome suggestions!

 

[JeffW]

If it helps, I always seem to have one "melt-down" run in the last 2 months before a marathon (even after 9 marathons). That's always my indication that I'm on track, because I've pushed to the limit and made it through.

Did a 11 Mile run today at my estimated pace for my marathon. My goal was a Sub5, but after today I ask myself if everything makes sense at all.

At Mile 7.5 I got a really hard time, it was windy, rainy, dark, my headlight slowly died and I just hated everything for the last miles. Saturday will be my first 21 mile slow long run, I hope for better weather and better run at all!

 

[js_cooldude]

Anyone running the marathon want to split the price of a room at one of the resorts?

Hi,
I am doing the Dopey challenge and might me interested in sharing a room with you (depending on the room's price). You can message me here or email me at js_cooldude@hotmail.com

 

[BuckeyeBama]

3. I didn't feel tired until mile 15, but that was a combination of tired and bored. So I sped up at mile 17 and was much happier. I use the same "reset" mentality that @DopeyBadger described - it's really helpful! I sort of wonder if I should do these long runs at a faster pace - but maybe the reason I can speed up easily at the end is because of the slow pace pre-mile 17. Welcome suggestions!

I do this often on really long runs. Because my starting pace is slower than my normal pace, I have lots of gas left later in the run. And when I speed up to my normal pace later in the run, that pace is actually easier for me because it is my "default" pace - the pace that my body is most used to.

BTW, I also take walk breaks to simulate walking through water stops. Helps me mentally, both when I train and on race day.

 

[DopeyBadger]

3. I didn't feel tired until mile 15, but that was a combination of tired and bored. So I sped up at mile 17 and was much happier. I use the same "reset" mentality that @DopeyBadger described - it's really helpful! I sort of wonder if I should do these long runs at a faster pace - but maybe the reason I can speed up easily at the end is because of the slow pace pre-mile 17. Welcome suggestions!

What's some recent race results that you would believe are indicative of your current fitness level? With that I could make a suggestion on long run pace.

In the end though, finishing a run strong and faster than the beginning is a good thing and should happen on nearly every training run. It's a sign you're doing the training duration and pace your body can handle. The only caveat is to look at this over the long term as well as the short term. Because we don't want to "waste" our race effort on a training run. So let's say you do three 20 mile runs, all with the same intended pace. The 1st is a 9:00, the 2nd a 9:10, the third is a 9:20. This is also a sign of fading even if the run itself wasn't a fade within the run. It's a sign that you aren't fully recovering from week to week, and that come race day you might enter with too much fatigue for optimal performance.

In fact, I intentionally try to run progressive runs on nearly every training run. I want to train my body to accept going slow in the beginning and then progressively get faster. Train the way you want to race. Ideally the best strategy is an even split from beginning to the end. But it's soooo tough to know the correct pace at the beginning of the race, thus I advocate for the negative split because it ensures that you can't start too fast and surpass the Lactate Threshold too soon.

 

[Keels]

First three-a-day for me today ... four miles on the trail (45 minutes running), 22 miles on the bike (120 minutes cycling) and then another 30 minutes of speed work at the track tonight.

It was also the first time I've felt a little "beat down" after a long workout, but I don't think it's anything to be too concerned about.

Tomorrow and Wednesday are both 45 running, 60 biking days ... and then Thursday is my first race since Disneyland! Hoping to do well in a Thanksgiving 10K! And then going for a double-digit run on Saturday. Fingers crossed!

 

[pixarmom]

What's some recent race results that you would believe are indicative of your current fitness level? With that I could make a suggestion on long run pace.

In the end though, finishing a run strong and faster than the beginning is a good thing and should happen on nearly every training run. It's a sign you're doing the training duration and pace your body can handle. The only caveat is to look at this over the long term as well as the short term. Because we don't want to "waste" our race effort on a training run. So let's say you do three 20 mile runs, all with the same intended pace. The 1st is a 9:00, the 2nd a 9:10, the third is a 9:20. This is also a sign of fading even if the run itself wasn't a fade within the run. It's a sign that you aren't fully recovering from week to week, and that come race day you might enter with too much fatigue for optimal performance.

In fact, I intentionally try to run progressive runs on nearly every training run. I want to train my body to accept going slow in the beginning and then progressively get faster. Train the way you want to race. Ideally the best strategy is an even split from beginning to the end. But it's soooo tough to know the correct pace at the beginning of the race, thus I advocate for the negative split because it ensures that you can't start too fast and surpass the Lactate Threshold too soon.

Great stuff! I'd say a good example is the half I ran two weeks ago at 1:52. I can't seem to break 1:52, but I've been able to repeat it over time when I'm trained. When I'm not trained, I run more like a 1:58. And I can go about my day fully present with my family after running that pace - I feel the same that you do about not letting my run interfere with family activities. For the marathon, I've been very conservative with my pace - I ran a little under 11:00 pace for the 2015 WDW Marathon (with a burst of energy at the end.) I felt like I could have run faster, but I was comfortable the whole time and after the race.

 

[lahobbs4]

I've got to do more training on shutting my mind off! I cannot get past 7 miles on my long day (I'm doing the half) and usually the reason I stop is because I cannot stop thinking about everything else I need to be doing...three kids, two jobs, volunteer obligations, christmas shopping, trip planning and organizing who will have the kids every day.... I'm getting tired again just thinking about it. But, I have complete faith that I can get to at least 10 in the next 3 weeks. That's a good goal, hopefully??

Anywho, the main thing I'm looking forward to on this trip (other than finishing my first half marathon!) is spending time at WDW with just my hubby. No riding Peter Pan, or eating quick food at Casey's, but simply resting and eating at some nice restaurants and enjoying an adult beverage while NOT pushing a stroller. I cannot tell you how many margaritas I have spilled because of that

 

[FFigawi]

Oh, that sounds like fun

It's the perfect way to recover & rehydrate on Monday

 

[DerTobi75]

So I sped up at mile 17 and was much happier. I use the same "reset" mentality that @DopeyBadger described - it's really helpful! I sort of wonder if I should do these long runs at a faster pace

Where did he described that? Can you tell a little bit more about it?

 

[DopeyBadger]

Great stuff! I'd say a good example is the half I ran two weeks ago at 1:52. I can't seem to break 1:52, but I've been able to repeat it over time when I'm trained. When I'm not trained, I run more like a 1:58. And I can go about my day fully present with my family after running that pace - I feel the same that you do about not letting my run interfere with family activities. For the marathon, I've been very conservative with my pace - I ran a little under 11:00 pace for the 2015 WDW Marathon (with a burst of energy at the end.) I felt like I could have run faster, but I was comfortable the whole time and after the race.

Based on a 1:52 HM, then I would recommend the following training paces:



Your long run would be about a 9:33 min/mile. I follow a 80/20 easy/hard split and thus 80% of my training is at Long Run or slower. My average pace for the week/month/year tends to be EB pace. So for you, I'd recommend an average pace of a 9:55 min/mile. If you choose to run the WDW marathon slower than fitness dictates again (thus slower than 8:53 min/mile), then I would make sure to incorporate some pacing at that desired pace. Each pace in the spectrum uses different muscle/bone sets and we want to make sure those muscles are appropriately prepared to run 26.2 miles.

Where did he described that? Can you tell a little bit more about it?

Here you go:

This is where the mental game comes into play. Tell her that on race day to use the following mindset. Commonly when people reach a mile marker past where they went in training, they typically say " I have never gone this far" or "I wonder if I can keep running beyond this." I like to think of it as the opposite. Let's say her longest training run is 14 miles. Rather than at mile 14 saying, I've never trained further. Instead at mile 12 hit the reset button. Mile 12 is now mile 0. Mile 13 is now mile 1. So that when she hits mile 26, it's actually mile 14. I've done 14 miles in training. No big deal. If you can change the mindset from fear of the unknown, to I can do this because I have before. Then you'll have a better chance to succeed. Remind her that because of the taper she should feel better at the start of the marathon then during any training run prior. Keeping a positive mindset and maintaining motivation goes a LONG way in succeeding on race day.

My reasoning for this mindset is a psychological model of endurance running known as the Psychobiological Model by Samuele Marcora. I've done a journal post about it here (it's at the end). This psychological model is also the basis of my belief in blind running. Blind running is running without any data (you can run with a GPS watch/phone but you aren't allowed to look at splits or any data). By not knowing how well or poorly you are doing you can remove a potential negative variable. Learn to trust your body. Think about when you run. How often do you see your pace slip and immediately become frustrated, lose motivation, or start doing "new" predicted finishing times that were slower than goal. If this happens to you (as it did to me), then I advocate learning to race blind. I train vigorously by pace, but on race day I never look until it's too late to make a difference (mile 12 of the HM, or mile 24 of the M). The key to running blind is honesty. You have to be honest about your current effort. If you lie to yourself about the effort being given, then the blind racing strategy will likely fail you.

 

[DerTobi75]

My reasoning for this mindset is a psychological model of endurance running known as the Psychobiological Model by Samuele Marcora. I've done a journal post about it here (it's at the end). This psychological model is also the basis of my belief in blind running. Blind running is running without any data (you can run with a GPS watch/phone but you aren't allowed to look at splits or any data). By not knowing how well or poorly you are doing you can remove a potential negative variable. Learn to trust your body. Think about when you run. How often do you see your pace slip and immediately become frustrated, lose motivation, or start doing "new" predicted finishing times that were slower than goal. If this happens to you (as it did to me), then I advocate learning to race blind. I train vigorously by pace, but on race day I never look until it's too late to make a difference (mile 12 of the HM, or mile 24 of the M). The key to running blind is honesty. You have to be honest about your current effort. If you lie to yourself about the effort being given, then the blind racing strategy will likely fail you.

Thanks, that sounds really interesting. I mostly run by heartrate and not by pace. I also deleted the pace display on my garmin, just because it made me run too fast at a pace I could not afford ;-)

 

[singastory]

Hi everyone. I need some support I've had right knee pain for about a month but still managed to do two 9-mile runs about 2 weeks apart (I'm signed up for the half). After each of those runs I am limping and lame for about 2 days, then just painful for another day but it eventually subsides. I had radiographs and an MRI. I saw a physical therapist yesterday who said the issue was with my gluteus and my VMO pulling my kneecap out of alignment, she gave me strengthening exercises and I felt really positive. Then I saw the orthopedist today for my MRI results: I have mild edema in my distal femur, the type of change you see pre-stress fracture. She said no running for 6 weeks (the irony, the race is almost 6 weeks from today). Could someone remind me what the sweep pace is for the half? I'm devastated but still want to participate as much as I can. I'm hoping to rest for a couple more weeks and then maybe run/walk it? I will talk with the physical therapist again next week. I feel like the horse who breaks down just before the finish line.

 

[rteetz]

Hi everyone. I need some support I've had right knee pain for about a month but still managed to do two 9-mile runs about 2 weeks apart (I'm signed up for the half). After each of those runs I am limping and lame for about 2 days, then just painful for another day but it eventually subsides. I had radiographs and an MRI. I saw a physical therapist yesterday who said the issue was with my gluteus and my VMO pulling my kneecap out of alignment, she gave me strengthening exercises and I felt really positive. Then I saw the orthopedist today for my MRI results: I have mild edema in my distal femur, the type of change you see pre-stress fracture. She said no running for 6 weeks (the irony, the race is almost 6 weeks from today). Could someone remind me what the sweep pace is for the half? I'm devastated but still want to participate as much as I can. I'm hoping to rest for a couple more weeks and then maybe run/walk it? I will talk with the physical therapist again next week. I feel like the horse who breaks down just before the finish line.

You are supposed to keep a 16 min/mile pace. Now if you are in a coral before the last one you'll have a bit more time than that depending on what corral you are in. I watched a video of a woman on youtube who walked the wine and dine half in a boot. She started in corral C though so she had a lot of time.

 

[Ariel484]

Hi everyone. I need some support I've had right knee pain for about a month but still managed to do two 9-mile runs about 2 weeks apart (I'm signed up for the half). After each of those runs I am limping and lame for about 2 days, then just painful for another day but it eventually subsides. I had radiographs and an MRI. I saw a physical therapist yesterday who said the issue was with my gluteus and my VMO pulling my kneecap out of alignment, she gave me strengthening exercises and I felt really positive. Then I saw the orthopedist today for my MRI results: I have mild edema in my distal femur, the type of change you see pre-stress fracture. She said no running for 6 weeks (the irony, the race is almost 6 weeks from today). Could someone remind me what the sweep pace is for the half? I'm devastated but still want to participate as much as I can. I'm hoping to rest for a couple more weeks and then maybe run/walk it? I will talk with the physical therapist again next week. I feel like the horse who breaks down just before the finish line.

The sweep clock starts when the very last runner begins the race. So if you're in an earlier corral, you have 16:00/mile + the time between you starting the race and the last runner starting the race.

So if I am the last runner starting the race and you start 30 minutes before me, you have 16:00/mile (3:30ish) + an additional 30-minute buffer = 4 hours.

I'm really sorry this happened to you.

 

[DopeyBadger]

Hi everyone. I need some support I've had right knee pain for about a month but still managed to do two 9-mile runs about 2 weeks apart (I'm signed up for the half). After each of those runs I am limping and lame for about 2 days, then just painful for another day but it eventually subsides. I had radiographs and an MRI. I saw a physical therapist yesterday who said the issue was with my gluteus and my VMO pulling my kneecap out of alignment, she gave me strengthening exercises and I felt really positive. Then I saw the orthopedist today for my MRI results: I have mild edema in my distal femur, the type of change you see pre-stress fracture. She said no running for 6 weeks (the irony, the race is almost 6 weeks from today). Could someone remind me what the sweep pace is for the half? I'm devastated but still want to participate as much as I can. I'm hoping to rest for a couple more weeks and then maybe run/walk it? I will talk with the physical therapist again next week. I feel like the horse who breaks down just before the finish line.

Agreed with @rteetz and @Ariel484, once we know what corral you're in we will be able to give a pretty accurate minimum pace estimate. Should have corrals in 14-21 days if history holds. Wishing you the best!

 

[singastory]

Thanks everyone, this is helpful. My qualifying pace was 9:38/mi, so hopefully I'll be in one of the earlier corrals. My power walk is about 15 min/mi.