Marathon Weekend 2016

[RunDisneyDad]

The marathon is a 99% endurance event.

This.

Our long runs help us run as efficiently as possible. Sometimes runners forget the paces we train at should be based on our current fitness level and not a random pace we think we can run or hope we can run. In @Z-Knight case you have a recent race time to give you your fitness level, so the 20% GMP runs @DopeyBadger mentions are helping you maintain and even improve your pace, but the other 80% is helping you build your endurance and get you to the finish line (specifically that last 10k). The other thing to take into consideration is your mileage as the more time you are on your feet the better chance you have of avoiding the bonk.

BTW, @Z-Knight you really are a rocket scientist in Houston? I grew up near NASA! We need to get back to putting American's back in space in our own rockets!

 

[Z-Knight]

BTW, @Z-Knight you really are a rocket scientist in Houston? I grew up near NASA! We need to get back to putting American's back in space in our own rockets!

Yeah, I work in Mission Control, although backroom, for the Visiting Vehicles Office in the International Space Station program. I'm also a 3D graphics software developer so I have the best of all worlds, other than those damn lucky jerk astronauts. Now I'm working on the Boeing Starliner project so hopefully soon we'll have our own way of getting to ISS rather than through the Russians.


Showing family ISS control room

 

[DopeyBadger]

I've never had it tested, only what my Garmin 620 tells me (50.0 VO2max). I don't know how accurate it is and it hasn't been updated since Sep because I've only had a couple outside short races and it still says 50.0. I think I can make it higher if I follow your fueling strategy because I know for sure my pre-race fueling was either low or non-existent in some cases. Usually for short races it doesnt have to be but for the longer ones it will definitely give me a boost.

Have you checked your garmin profile information recently? The resting heart rate, max heart rate, weight and age play a role in the garmin calculation. What's interesting to me is that outside of a different medical reason your resting heart rate suggests that you can be/are an elite marathon runner, but the data calculated from using the Garmin (which has been shown to be relatively accurate) suggests you have a much lower VO2max. It really makes me wonder what will happen if you do decide to adopt the slower training plan. My guess is you could end up being one of the rare gems that is commonly talked about when people talk about the possible 2-hr marathoner. This isn't to suggest you will break 2-hrs in the marathon, but that a working theory is that there may be in existence someone physiologically capable of doing it but their fitness level (or desire or other myriad of reasons) is far below what they are capable of. Boiled down, your resting heart rate would suggest that you have the cardiac potential to be a VERY good runner with all other aspects of your running style ironed out.

 

[opusone]

Yeah, I work in Mission Control, although backroom, for the Visiting Vehicles Office in the International Space Station program. I'm also a 3D graphics software developer so I have the best of all worlds, other than those damn lucky jerk astronauts. Now I'm working on the Boeing Starliner project so hopefully soon we'll have our own way of getting to ISS rather than through the Russians.

Cool! Are you working on the SpaceX Crew Dragon project as well?

 

[Z-Knight]

Have you checked your garmin profile information recently? The resting heart rate, max heart rate, weight and age play a role in the garmin calculation. What's interesting to me is that outside of a different medical reason your resting heart rate suggests that you can be/are an elite marathon runner, but the data calculated from using the Garmin (which has been shown to be relatively accurate) suggests you have a much lower VO2max. It really makes me wonder what will happen if you do decide to adopt the slower training plan. My guess is you could end up being one of the rare gems that is commonly talked about when people talk about the possible 2-hr marathoner. This isn't to suggest you will break 2-hrs in the marathon, but that a working theory is that there may be in existence someone physiologically capable of doing it but their fitness level (or desire or other myriad of reasons) is far below what they are capable of. Boiled down, your resting heart rate would suggest that you have the cardiac potential to be a VERY good runner with all other aspects of your running style ironed out.

Other than the defaults of weight and height i didn't do any other monkeying around with it. I'll have to see what I can change. I think my current weight is a big hindrance but if I got slimmer I doubt I could reach that higher elite status. But thanks for boosting the ego a bit.

 

[Z-Knight]

Cool! Are you working on the SpaceX Crew Dragon project as well?

I've worked on some 3d graphics tools for that project but I don't directly support them. I worked on the Russian vehicles and the European ATV

 

[IamTrike]

Btw, running or training at that slower pace I think is basically akin to running at a lower heart rate. And this concept of training I have read about and lots of people support so I'll have to stop being pig headed about it.

 

[IamTrike]

For a little more on easy runs I found this quote

"Anyone can run fast. Just look at beginners, who start out running too fast, feel frustrated that it's so hard, and then decide they hate running and quit. Running at an easy pace takes patience and discipline"

I'm going to paraphrase a big section of Hanson's book:
Easy promote a wide array of favorable physiological adaptations.
1. Easy running is done at low enough intensities that you are primarily burning fat, allowing your body time to rebuild the lost carbohydrate (glycogen) stores.
2. Muscles learn to more efficiently burn fat because they are running at a pace that promotes fat burning rather than carbohydrate depletion
3. Your body adapts to the training load placed on it and will eventually become stonger.

 

[Barca33Runner]

Thanks for this discussion. I am the worst when it comes to running at a reasonable pace and can never convince myself that running slower is better for me. I get too competitive with myself and I think it has ruined some of my enthusiasm to run in the past year. I need these reminders to help convince myself that running slower in training will help me run faster and more comfortably when it matters.

 

[JClimacus]

Thanks for this discussion. I am the worst when it comes to running at a reasonable pace and can never convince myself that running slower is better for me. I get too competitive with myself and I think it has ruined some of my enthusiasm to run in the past year. I need these reminders to help convince myself that running slower in training will help me run faster and more comfortably when it matters.

I have the opposite problem insofar as I plug an audiobook on my iPhone, start running, and I could run all day at 10:00 miles. Even on my pace runs I could hardly ever get faster than 9:00 miles. Lately I've been running with a partner who is making me train much faster. We did 16 at 8:39 this past Sunday. Later today I'll do 11 with her, probably around 8:30 miles. Is this too fast for training? I'll find out on the 15th, when I'm running a half and hoping to PR. It's an interesting experiment: Will I be faster, or will I have burned myself out? Whatever the outcome, I'll use the knowledge to adjust my ongoing Goofy training.

 

[JClimacus]

Yeah, I work in Mission Control, although backroom....
Showing family ISS control room

Stay away from those pastries I see on the left! Great nerd job. I'm envious!

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I've never had it tested, only what my Garmin 620 tells me (50.0 VO2max). I don't know how accurate it is and it hasn't been updated since Sep because I've only had a couple outside short races and it still says 50.0. I think I can make it higher if I follow your fueling strategy because I know for sure my pre-race fueling was either low or non-existent in some cases. Usually for short races it doesnt have to be but for the longer ones it will definitely give me a boost.

50.0 is pretty danged good. I am @ 49.1 (48 years old), but intend to work this back into the lower 50s next year. It takes a lot of work for me to get from 49 into the 50-53 range.

 

[cavepig]

Off pace topic and all the technical stuff - BUT does anyone remember if they had a Dopey jacket or hoodie in the past for official merchandise for sale? As I ran today it was the one thing I know I want to buy if it will exist & is more than just a simple logo on it. thanks

 

[opusone]

I have the opposite problem insofar as I plug an audiobook on my iPhone, start running, and I could run all day at 10:00 miles. Even on my pace runs I could hardly ever get faster than 9:00 miles. Lately I've been running with a partner who is making me train much faster. We did 16 at 8:39 this past Sunday. Later today I'll do 11 with her, probably around 8:30 miles. Is this too fast for training? I'll find out on the 15th, when I'm running a half and hoping to PR. It's an interesting experiment: Will I be faster, or will I have burned myself out? Whatever the outcome, I'll use the knowledge to adjust my ongoing Goofy training.

Well, to beat your current half PR, you will need to average 7:57 or better for the race; therefore, an 8:30 for 11 miles would still be 30-35 secs/mi slower than your half marathon race pace. Again, that is a little faster than I would train (I'm usually about 1 min/mi slower than race pace), but it definitely shouldn't kill you.

However, for your long runs for marathon training (i.e. those runs longer than 13 miles), though, I would think you would want to slow down a bit more (maybe in the 9:00-9:15 range at most, but even slower is fine). You and I have similar PRs, and I am usually in the 9:00-9:30 range on my long runs. When I go faster than that, I think it starts becoming detrimental.

 

[Ariel484]

Off pace topic and all the technical stuff - BUT does anyone remember if they had a Dopey jacket or hoodie in the past for official merchandise for sale? As I ran today it was the one thing I know I want to buy if it will exist & is more than just a simple logo on it. thanks

They did have a jacket in 2015. It's the blue one in this picture (the women's version was lavender - I grabbed one new with tags from eBay about 3 months after the race weekend for $30 ).

 

[Ariel484]

^^so you can see it's just a basic logo. Nothing on the back. They also had stuff that said "run, eat, sleep...repeat, repeat, repeat" and that seemed to go more quickly.

 

[Z-Knight]

^^so you can see it's just a basic logo. Nothing on the back. They also had stuff that said "run, eat, sleep...repeat, repeat, repeat" and that seemed to go more quickly.

Awesome...lol

 

[DopeyBadger]

^^so you can see it's just a basic logo. Nothing on the back. They also had stuff that said "run, eat, sleep...repeat, repeat, repeat" and that seemed to go more quickly.

Just to clarify, but the blue track jacket does have "run, eat, sleep... repeat, repeat, repeat" on the back. I also got the red one in the inaugural year more like a wind-breaker but it only had a small "dopey challenge" emblem on the chest.

 

[LSUlakes]

I've worked on some 3d graphics tools for that project but I don't directly support them. I worked on the Russian vehicles and the European ATV

That's a cool job! Can you tell us what the big announcement that NASA is supposed to make tomorrow about Mars?

 

[Z-Knight]

That's a cool job! Can you tell us what the big announcement that NASA is supposed to make tomorrow about Mars?

Hmm, I didn't even hear about that. That likely would be a Jet Propulsion Laboratory related announcement, I would guess.