Mandatory reporters, and a wwyd scenario

[jrmasm]

Coaches are mandatory reporters? Really? Is that only if they're paid? What about volunteers? I have never heard that before.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

As for the "mandatory reporters" - this is a CYA thing. People who just pick up the phone and call the police without trying to help are no better than people who ignore it altogether, IMO. Yes, the call might save a child's life, but it isn't because you really cared.

Where has anyone advocated "just" picking up the phone, everyone I see suggests talking to the mother, offering her an alternative way home etc . . . , and then calling 911 if that doesn't work.

I'm also shaking my head at the implication that saving the child's life isn't evidence that what you did was better than doing nothing.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

Coaches are mandatory reporters? Really? Is that only if they're paid? What about volunteers? I have never heard that before.

I think it varies jurisdiction to jurisdiction -- where I live I'm pretty sure anyone who earns money caring for or teaching children (including something like a sport or art classes) is mandated. Other jurisdictions may have different rules.

 

[Carly_Roach]

You can always tell the difference between a concerned person and a busybody/control freak:

Concerned citizen gets involved and actually does something when the event is happening, even if (or especially if) there is a real physical or monetarial danger to him/herself for getting involved.

Busybody/control freak directs someone else to get involved and then tells everyone they meet how they "saved" a child or another person.

 

[Colleen27]

I agree, but just calling the cops is an abdication of our responsibility to our fellow man. If you have a chance to help someone, help them - don't just call the cops. If they refuse your help you may have no choice, but it should not be option number one.

In this situation, I'd trust the coach's judgment. He spoke with the mother and was clearly satisfied enough with the conversation not to push the issue further. I know my kids' coaches well enough to know that they wouldn't let an intoxicated/impaired parent get behind the wheel with a child, so if the coach was convinced the situation was safe I would trust that it was. But if I thought there was a risk I'd talk to the other mom and offer her a ride home rather than just letting it go and calling after the fact. It seems to me that the reporter in this situation was more interested in the gossip/drama factor of the situation than the safety of the child or the mother.

 

[Carly_Roach]

In this situation, I'd trust the coach's judgment. He spoke with the mother and was clearly satisfied enough with the conversation not to push the issue further. I know my kids' coaches well enough to know that they wouldn't let an intoxicated/impaired parent get behind the wheel with a child, so if the coach was convinced the situation was safe I would trust that it was. But if I thought there was a risk I'd talk to the other mom and offer her a ride home rather than just letting it go and calling after the fact. It seems to me that the reporter in this situation was more interested in the gossip/drama factor of the situation than the safety of the child or the mother.

Agreed. That was my assessment, too.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

A mandated reporter is a mandated reporter, no matter where you are. Mandated reporting is not exclusive to teachers and healthcare providers. As a foster parent, I'm mandated. I don't have a "job" at which I am required to report abuse. I am required to report any abuse or neglect (or suspected abuse or neglect) no matter where I am.

Anyone who says that reporting this is a cop-out obviously doesn't understand what it means to be a mandated reporter. We're not tattle-tales. We're people who know what to look for, and we report it when we see it. If the woman in the OP's story thought that a child might be in danger (by getting into a car with the woman in question), then she was required to report it. Period. No one here can say whether she would have been right or wrong. It's a matter of judgement on the part of the mandated reporter. We weren't there.

I would like to clarify as I am the one that brought up tattling.

In this instance, if the fear is that mom was drunk--"reporting" doesn't do any good unless one steps forward to actually do it.

That is why I mentioned it.

If one suspects that a drunk person is going to drive with a minor (or drive period!) then one must step forward and do what they can so that it doesn't happen.

I'm almost disgusted with the mandated reporter myself for her lack of action. I wonder if she noticed this before and did nothing since the OP mentioned that some of the moms noticed this before.

I agree with Carly Roach about the concerned citizen/busy body. As conveyed, this mandated reporter seemed to be the latter.

 

[FireDancer]

I would have just minded my own business. I would also not participate in any kind of mandatory reporting. It is like the current "see something say something" meme being propagated, Joseph McCarthy would be proud.

 

[MickeySP]

I would have just minded my own business. I would also not participate in any kind of mandatory reporting. It is like the current "see something say something" meme being propagated, Joseph McCarthy would be proud.

And this attitude is why I have total job security.

So if you see a person being assaulted or OUI, you just turn your head?

I see this as less McCarthyism than societal responsibility. I am not reporting a person for their beliefs but for their endagerment of others, in this particular case aminor child.

 

[luvsJack]

Wrong - if a person cared, they would try to help the woman, not pass the buck to the cops and move on with her day.

In some situations I agree with you. And, of course, we don't know what was wrong with the woman either.

But, I believe our difference of opinion comes from my opinon that the child's safety trumping all else. I would have to make my decision on offering help or calling the law based on what I felt was the quickest way to insure the child's safety.



As for trusting the gym coach, again, I would have to make my own assessment. I just could not, in good consience allow this child to go off in a vehicle with someone I believe to be impaired.

 

[FireDancer]

And this attitude is why I have total job security.

So if you see a person being assaulted or OUI, you just turn your head?

I see this as less McCarthyism than societal responsibility. I am not reporting a person for their beliefs but for their endagerment of others, in this particular case aminor child.

I would call the police if I witnessed a crime and testify to what I saw in court. I would not get personally involved unless it was to protect someone I know. I would never assume someone was committing a crime without proof and I didn't see proof in the OP, only speculation, and that is exactly what I equate to McCarthyism, speculation without proof on the part of the citizens. That is the job of the police not citizens IMO.

You can do what you want, I was saying what I would do.

 

[Magpie]

I would have just minded my own business. I would also not participate in any kind of mandatory reporting. It is like the current "see something say something" meme being propagated, Joseph McCarthy would be proud.

"Mandatory Reporting" exists because of cases like poor little Lisa Steinberg who was obviously being abused in the 1980's, going to school visibly battered and starved, and yet her teachers never did anything to report it. They "minded their own business", and the child died.

"Mandatory Reporting" laws also exist to protect the people doing the reporting. Because they're mandatory reporters, they cannot be harassed or sued for reporting suspected abuse.

I believe we have a moral obligation to intervene when we suspect people may do harm to themselves or others. Unfortunately, a "moral obligation" isn't enough in a world where people would rather ignore things that make them uncomfortable than actually speak up. So that's why we have laws. I don't see anything "McCarthy" like about it. McCarthy suppressed free speech. These laws encourage it.

FWIW - I don't see this particular case as a "mandatory reporting" situation. I think if someone disagreed with the coach's assessment of the situation, then that person should have gone to talk to the mother herself, made up her own mind, and perhaps offered her a lift home or called a cab for her. It's not like it's a terribly complicated situation! Either she's fit to drive, or she's not. Who cares why?

I hate it when people sit around on their butts gossiping and not doing anything...

 

[MickeySP]

she was nodding off, and swaying when she stood, and her speech was unclear. From the OP.

Seems to me reasonable to make an assumption of possible impairment. OUI with a child on board is a criminal act. So call the police and let them asses the situation - no impairment she is on her way, impaired you may have saved a child.

Apathy is a wonderful thing. I would err on the side of caution, rather than read about a family of 4 wiped out by a soccer Mom OUI behind the wheel.

•McCarthyism is the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. No accusation made just a concern voiced for the safety of a child


You can do what you want, I was saying what I would do. Difference being I get to see the side effects of that too many times.

 

[luvsJack]

I would call the police if I witnessed a crime and testify to what I saw in court. I would not get personally involved unless it was to protect someone I know. I would never assume someone was committing a crime without proof and I didn't see proof in the OP, only speculation, and that is exactly what I equate to McCarthyism, speculation without proof on the part of the citizens. That is the job of the police not citizens IMO.

You can do what you want, I was saying what I would do.

how sad that you would do nothing to protect a child you do not know.

 

[MickeySP]

how sad that you would do nothing to protect a child you do not know.

And just out curiousity what is the coaches qualifications to assess her sobriety?

 

[C.Ann]

I wouldn't care if someone was drunk, high, or just massively upset. If they're impaired, they are impaired. I would have just made sure someone else was driving and left it at that. You don't need to necessarily get all up in someone else's business to make sure they're being safe. All someone needed to do was go up to her and say, "You seem upset, is there someone here to give you a break and do the driving for you?" No need to pry further.

This sounds very reasonable to me.. Depending upon her answer - or if no one else was there to do the driving, I would have considered some other alternatives before pulling the "mandatory reporting" card.. Those things are serious business - and there might have been a better way to handle the situation.. (Offer a ride; call a cab; etc..) Too little information to jump from A to Z in a heart beat..

 

[cabanafrau]

I would call the police if I witnessed a crime and testify to what I saw in court. I would not get personally involved unless it was to protect someone I know. I would never assume someone was committing a crime without proof and I didn't see proof in the OP, only speculation, and that is exactly what I equate to McCarthyism, speculation without proof on the part of the citizens. That is the job of the police not citizens IMO.

You can do what you want, I was saying what I would do.

What would qualify as proof in your eyes in the scenario outlined in the OP? IMO it strains reason and credulity to equate suspicions of intoxication w/ McCarthyism.

I have no idea if the mother in the OP was in fact intoxicated, upset, has a problem with her motor skills, balance, etc. or even if she could have been suffering from something like a diabetic episode which I believe can cause people to act in unusual ways. If this mother was indeed intoxicated she could have taken a med improperly by accident, be taking a med for a new or recent temporary condition & not realize it's affecting her ability to function. If she has a long-term substance issue, she's probably a doggone good liar & could pull the wool over the coach's eyes. Maybe the coach's assessment was correct. I sure hope so. I don't know because I wasn't a witness.

I absolutely disagree w/ your assertion that it's only the job of the police to handle something like this. Police cannot be everywhere & must rely on citizens to cooperate to alert them of problems. If you saw someone coming out of your neighbor's home in the middle of the night when you knew your neighbor was away, would you watch & see what they were doing, carrying or figure out it's your neighbor's brother? If it was someone you didn't recognize, felt was acting stealthy & was carrying a big screen TV or a pillowcase filled with something other than a pillow, would you call the police or assume that the police should discover the theft on their own because you don't have proof of a crime?

Like I said earlier, I'd stick my nose in somebody else's business to try & figure out if my suspicions are correct. I'd call the police if I felt my suspicions were justified & I couldn't stop the situation myself. That doesn't mean I go around looking for situations to insert myself in, nor would I care to "inform" on my friends & neighbors. Our freedoms are precious. So is life. I think it's possible in situations like this to act in a way that protects both.

 

[FireDancer]

•McCarthyism is the politically motivated practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. No accusation made just a concern voiced for the safety of a child

You can do what you want, I was saying what I would do. Difference being I get to see the side effects of that too many times.

Well yes, literally that is what McCarthyism is. I was just equating the notion that citizens should be sitting around tattling to the police or anyone on their fellow citizens without proof of something as a dangerous notion IMO.

It is this kind of mindset that tells a nosy neighbor in Long Beach that they should call the police on her neighbor because he is playing with a gun which in actuality is a garden hose nozzle and through a cascade of errors the man ends up being shot.

We can agree to disagree of course, I'm just not a fan of the citizens being big brother. While in theory it can be good in practice it many times ends up being an over reaction and can get someone killed. Look at the "See Something, Say Something" advertisements that they are going to be playing in WalMart. That is just an extension of nosiness and will end up with a lot of false accusations, just like McCartyism did.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

A quick story - When my oldest was younger - maybe 2 years old - my wife went shopping. He had a really bad tantrum in the store. My wife was challenged to deal with it, as we had decided that we were going to just ignore them - pretend that they weren't happening. Well, I don't remember the details (my wife would), but someone ended up calling store security, and they called the cops.

I can't tell you how difficult this was on my wife. A stranger saw something that they thought was abusive behavior (not sure what, because my wife didn't touch him) and "acted". My wife was left trying to "prove" her story. Thanks goodness she wasn't arrested, but that was the starting point in the discussion with the police.

That is a large part of the reason that I believe that if you see something, you should try to help, not just report. By deciding to "report" something that you do not understand, you may actually do more harm than good.

 

[npmommie]

A quick story - When my oldest was younger - maybe 2 years old - my wife went shopping. He had a really bad tantrum in the store. My wife was challenged to deal with it, as we had decided that we were going to just ignore them - pretend that they weren't happening. Well, I don't remember the details (my wife would), but someone ended up calling store security, and they called the cops.

I can't tell you how difficult this was on my wife. A stranger saw something that they thought was abusive behavior (not sure what, because my wife didn't touch him) and "acted". My wife was left trying to "prove" her story. Thanks goodness she wasn't arrested, but that was the starting point in the discussion with the police.

That is a large part of the reason that I believe that if you see something, you should try to help, not just report. By deciding to "report" something that you do not understand, you may actually do more harm than good.

this was my point in telling teacher mom she should just let it go.
the coach assessed the mom, because teacher mom asked her to. and she determined mom was ok to either drive, or mom had someone to drive her, or maybe coach called the police to follow the mom home.
don't know.