Mandatory reporters, and a wwyd scenario

[npmommie]

the reason I said myob is because this person may have been upset, may have just been too tired, maybe she works nights, may have had too many meds on board, maybe just had a death in the family, we didn't know. when she was close there was no smell of alcohol, so I don't think she was drinking.

this person wanted to talk to her right in the mix of this party, I suggested she pull her aside if she wanted to ask her if she was ok, so as not to upset her. she took it to the coach instead.

the other mom also wanted to call the police, then she also proceeded to tell me that every time she saw this mom that she appeared like this.
this is the first time I had ever seen her like this.
I don't know the whole story, but the coach was made aware and talked to her, so they must have decided based on what they saw that she was ok.

we all felt like we should make sure she was ok to drive, but none of us but the one mom felt a need to involve cps.

 

[npmommie]

Yes it is, if she has reason to suspect a child is in danger she is mandated to report. It doesn't mean you can pick & choose when you report.
I would not assume someone was waiting for her. I migt engage he rin conversation and see if she was driving etc if she was then I would call 911 and tell them the situation.

MYOB is wonderful in some situations but never when there is a reasonable expectation that a child is in danger.

Mandated Reporters who fail to comply can lose their jobs, and be fined & even jailed.

The law in my state:
Any mandated reporter who fails to make required oral and written reports
can be punished by a fine of up to $1,000. Effective July 1, 2010, any
mandated reporter who willfully fails to report child abuse and/or neglect
that resulted in serious bodily injury or death can be punished by a fine
of up to $5,000 and up to 2½ years in jail, and be reported to the person’s
professional licensing authority.
In addition, effective July 1, 2010, all mandated reporters who knowingly
and willfully file a frivolous report of child abuse and/or neglect can be
punished by a fine of up to $2,000 for the first offense, up to 6 months in
jail for a second offense, and up to 2½ years in jail for a third offense.

I take that as in the course of our work, not everyday life.
if i am walking down the street and I see something and I don't report it, I can be fined how?
I don't know these people, or where they live or even their name in the scenario from the gym.
so how in that scenario could I be fined? or any of the other mandated reporters that were there?

 

[jrmasm]

I take that as in the course of our work, not everyday life.
if i am walking down the street and I see something and I don't report it, I can be fined how?I don't know these people, or where they live or even their name in the scenario from the gym.
so how in that scenario could I be fined? or any of the other mandated reporters that were there?

I was wondering about that. If you're a mandatory reporter are one outside of your job or only when you're on the clock?

 

[npmommie]

I was wondering about that. If you're a mandatory reporter are one outside of your job or only when you're on the clock?

I perceive it as when I am on the clock.
but of course if I saw a child being abused I would do something, I would not just ignore something.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I take that as in the course of our work, not everyday life.
if i am walking down the street and I see something and I don't report it, I can be fined how?
I don't know these people, or where they live or even their name in the scenario from the gym.
so how in that scenario could I be fined? or any of the other mandated reporters that were there?

Nope, mandated reporting status stays with you whether or not you're at work.

In this case the teacher (and the coach who is also a mandated reporter) did have some information -- the child's first name, where they go for gymnastics class, their approximate age. They were also in a position to get a license plate number. That's more than enough for someone to follow up.

 

[phorsenuf]

People have brought up some very valid points. I know for me, I have a balance problem. I sway and sometimes I almost tip over. If you saw me just standing around you would think I was impaired as well. It does not however affect my driving abilities. It's that whole judge a book by it's cover thing I guess. But since she was spoken to and the coach assessed the situation and thought it was fine then there needs no further intervening.

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

I was just wondering why the mandatory reporter didn't take it upon herself to go talk to the mom, especially when she wasn't satisfied with the coach's answer. She could've approached the mom with the coach or went and talked to her later. This way she could get first hand knowledge of the information.

 

[MickeySP]

I take that as in the course of our work, not everyday life.
if i am walking down the street and I see something and I don't report it, I can be fined how?
I don't know these people, or where they live or even their name in the scenario from the gym.
so how in that scenario could I be fined? or any of the other mandated reporters that were there?

The law makes no distinction between work/personal life. if you see abuse and it can be proved you ignored it you can be charged.

So say she goes out and kills the child in an accident, they know you ignored it by interviewing the people at the dance studio. "Yeah one lady said she was a mandated reporter but she just MYOB'd - yep she can be charged. Don't want to ba a mndated reporter, don't take a job where it is part of your contract.

I believe it is written that way because some jobs like Police Officer you actually don't clock out. If you see a crime you can't say - gee I am off duty so heck let them kill the guy - doesn't work that way. So one law covers all, you can't pick & choose when you want to report or not.

I would have just gone out to the parking lot - is she alone, yes or no. If no, she has a driver - done. If yes, get the plate and call 911. If I am a PO I intervene.

 

[npmommie]

People have brought up some very valid points. I know for me, I have a balance problem. I sway and sometimes I almost tip over. If you saw me just standing around you would think I was impaired as well. It does not however affect my driving abilities. It's that whole judge a book by it's cover thing I guess. But since she was spoken to and the coach assessed the situation and thought it was fine then there needs no further intervening.

That was why I suggested she let it go. she wanted to push it further, I felt like she did her part, someone else stepped in.
no she didn't talk to her, or look at her car, or see if she was driving.
maybe she told the coach her spouse was in the car.
and yes, maybe she has a balance problem.

I just didn't feel like she should turn this child's life, this family's life upside down getting child services involved when she didn't know for sure anything, she was basing it on seeing her like this that night. now if she really was seeing this everytime she saw this woman then maybe she should step in and voice her suspicions. I don't know, can't say because it is the only time I have seen her like that. I have seen her before but never saw her like that in the past.
the child in question looks fine well cared for healthy, happy kid.

 

[ChrizJen]

A mandated reporter is a mandated reporter, no matter where you are. Mandated reporting is not exclusive to teachers and healthcare providers. As a foster parent, I'm mandated. I don't have a "job" at which I am required to report abuse. I am required to report any abuse or neglect (or suspected abuse or neglect) no matter where I am.

Anyone who says that reporting this is a cop-out obviously doesn't understand what it means to be a mandated reporter. We're not tattle-tales. We're people who know what to look for, and we report it when we see it. If the woman in the OP's story thought that a child might be in danger (by getting into a car with the woman in question), then she was required to report it. Period. No one here can say whether she would have been right or wrong. It's a matter of judgement on the part of the mandated reporter. We weren't there.

 

[lsyorke]

My big question is what was accomplished in "reporting" the situation if no immediate action would be taken?
If the risk was perceived as dangerous enough to report and left at that, the immediate danger wasn't addressed.

 

[MickeySP]

That was why I suggested she let it go. she wanted to push it further, I felt like she did her part, someone else stepped in.
no she didn't talk to her, or look at her car, or see if she was driving.
maybe she told the coach her spouse was in the car.
and yes, maybe she has a balance problem.

Requirement of our law here:
As a mandated reporter you are also required by law to mail or fax a written
report to the Department within 48 hours after making the oral report.
The form for filing this report can be obtained from your local DCF Area
Office or from the DCF website:

So no - that does not fulfill the requirements of the law. She can't self evaluate - abdicate responsibility - she MUST report.

 

[MickeySP]

My big question is what was accomplished in "reporting" the situation if no immediate action would be taken?
If the risk was perceived as dangerous enough to report and left at that, the immediate danger wasn't addressed.

But you don't know what would have happened had it been reported, it wasn't. It may be nothingm it may be something - that is the point of mandated reporting, to find out.

If she was drunk or on meds and driving a child - she is OUI and a danger. It does not matter if the drugs are prescribed or illegal. She may have ben distraught and that is all, that was not the judgement of these people to make.

Get her plate - call 911 - maybe save her child & yours. I know I would not want to be driving the same road as a possible OUI operator. Would you?

 

[disneyfav4ever]

From your description, it doesn't sound like it would be safe for her to get behind a wheel. I would've tried to make sure she wasn't driving, especially with a child in the car.

 

[npmommie]

From your description, it doesn't sound like it would be safe for her to get behind a wheel. I would've tried to make sure she wasn't driving, especially with a child in the car.

I think this really was a what would you do scenario, do you cause a scene, get her upset, maybe upset her more, she storms off,
not knowing the circumstances, I just don't know.
If it was obvious she was drinking, I certainly would have called 911 on that for sure.
she was most likely not drinking because we were close enough that the smell would have been obvious. there was no smell.
but meds can be just as dangerous.
she could have had a million things we didn't know about.

for all we know the coach did call the police to check out her driving, she may not have wanted to say that to the moms though.

 

[luvsJack]

I highlighted those two words for a reason - there is always a risk associated with helping a stranger, but that doesn't make it any less the right thing to do. As a society, we tend to fall back on any excuse to push off the responsibility onto someone else - in this case, the police - with no real concern for the person who we are about to report. If we were really concerned, we would not let a "slight chance" of danger stop us from at least trying to help. We may not be able to help, but we should dang well try.

As for the "mandatory reporters" - this is a CYA thing. People who just pick up the phone and call the police without trying to help are no better than people who ignore it altogether, IMO. Yes, the call might save a child's life, but it isn't because you really cared.

I am confused as to how your last statement makes any sense at all. If a person didn't care, they wouldn't call at all.

FYI, in the scenario where I called the law the woman showed up at my center with her child and there was absolutely no doubt that she was heavily on something (she didn't know where she was). I took the child from her and thankfully she left her. I had no way of knowing where the woman was going or when she would be back. I went out the door to see if she was driving and she was not. My responsiblity was to that child. I called DHS and they said there was nothing I could do EXCEPT call the police. I called the sherriff's office, they sent a car out around the time the woman usually came to pick her daughter up--we had agreed that I would call them immediatly if she showed up sooner. And they followed her home. She was none the wiser, I did my job and kept the child safe.

There are situations in which most of us are not prepared to take care of and it is necessary for us to "push it off" on someone whose job it is to take care of such situations.

If the woman in the OP was to get beligerent and leave with her child angry and driving not only while under the influence but now angry on top of that; you have only made the situation worse.

 

[walden]

This thread brings up some interesting issues and misconceptions regarding mandated reporting.

Treating this as a hypothetical question and leaving aside whether or not theis is a "reportable condition": Both the teacher/Mom and the gymnastic coach are mandated reporters and, as someone said up the thread, mandated reporting has to do with your professional status not your working hours, i.e. the responsibility is 24/7.

Teacher/mom was right to discuss her concerns with the coach and ask the coach to talk to "possibly impaired Mom." The Coach was professionally satisfied that the child would not be endangered by leaving with Mom, although we don't know exactly why. Teacher/mom disagreed with Coach, as she (IMO inappropriately) shared with the OP and others at the table, but made no attempt to intervene herself. Therefore, if Teacher/Mom were genuinely seriously concerned then she, as a mandated reporter is at fault for failing to intervene herself.

However, none of the non-mandated *bystander* adults in the room get to abdicate all responsibility in this situation either. Any of them could have talked to *possibly impaired mom,* offered a ride home, or called the police themselves if they had "reasonable cause to believe" that the possibly impaired Mom was putting the child in danger.

The fact that no-one, except the coach, attempted to intervene was indicative that either a) no-one really thought the risk was that great or b) everyone was suffering from bystander effect and diffusion of responsibility. You do not have to be a mandated reporter to intereve in dangerous situations, you can call as a concerned citizen. We often take MYOB too far these days.

On the "reportable condition" issue, driving a child when truly impaired would fall under child endangerment rather than neglect, but as a mandated reporter my first responsibility would be to try to stop the Mom from driving away with the child. I could do this either by talking with her and getting them a ride or by calling the police to stop her. This would be an emergency situation so which action I took would be a judgement issue and I would consider risk to myself. My second responsibility would be to notify CPS and follow-up with the paperwork of the report.

 

[Bren's Mom]

I've always been taught that if you are a mandated reporter as part of your job, that only applies to the time during which you are doing your duties for that job.

If you are a teacher, you're mandated to report what you see while you are teaching or during the school day. If you see a kid in a store being abused, you are not mandated to report that as you are not working.

However, that does not mean that as parents/women/human beings we aren't ethically and morally expected to step in when a child is in imminent danger of being harmed.

I would have stepped in and spoken to the mom in question. If after speaking with her I still had questions about her fitness to drive (if she were planning to do that) or about her ability to care for her child in her current state I would have called the police and in the meantime done everything I could to detain her to maintain her child's safety.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I am confused as to how your last statement makes any sense at all. If a person didn't care, they wouldn't call at all. ..

Wrong - if a person cared, they would try to help the woman, not pass the buck to the cops and move on with her day.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

...FYI, in the scenario where I called the law the woman showed up at my center with her child and there was absolutely no doubt that she was heavily on something (she didn't know where she was). I took the child from her and thankfully she left her. I had no way of knowing where the woman was going or when she would be back. I went out the door to see if she was driving and she was not. My responsiblity was to that child. I called DHS and they said there was nothing I could do EXCEPT call the police. I called the sherriff's office, they sent a car out around the time the woman usually came to pick her daughter up--we had agreed that I would call them immediatly if she showed up sooner. And they followed her home. She was none the wiser, I did my job and kept the child safe.

There are situations in which most of us are not prepared to take care of and it is necessary for us to "push it off" on someone whose job it is to take care of such situations.

If the woman in the OP was to get beligerent and leave with her child angry and driving not only while under the influence but now angry on top of that; you have only made the situation worse.

I was not judging you - I was not there. I was really speaking to the OPs question about what I would do.