Major systematic problems with Oceaneer's club

[mb1976]

I posted this in another thread but, here is an article about how Disney is changing the kids programs.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=1064

 

[lakerz5]

We've had very good experiences in the kids areas, BUT our youngest was 7 on our first cruise. I would be checking on a 3 or 4 year old often if I was dropping a little one off that age. At 3 and 4, they are just "little people" that can't say or do much against an older child trying to be rough with them. I don't know if I like that age being together with up to 7 year olds...too many opportunities to be mean to or impatient with the little ones......

 

[Dicecatt]

It saddens me greatly to read some of these stories.

My children loved the club and the lab, all three of our Disney Wonder cruises. A couple of counselers even remembered them from previous cruises, and they were truly delightful.

Yes, at times the room was chaotic, but so is my own house, and I only have four kids compared to the many in the club during slide time .

My daughter was 3 and newly fully potty trained our first cruise...she loved every second of it, and would tell me to leave. At first I felt guilty, but she clearly wanted to be there, so at times I would stay with her, or check in often. My twins, first age 9 when first at the lab, made best friends instantly and wanted to live in the lab, we had to drag them out.

On our cruise last July, it was just my littlest with my sister and me...and we had the same experience. The only time she cried was when they practiced for the last day graduation show and she didn't want to participate. I came in as a cast membr was hugging her and showing her some things she could play with instead.

In December, my whole family of 6 went...again, the three younger ones loved the clubs. And when my 4 year old wasn't feeling well, poor baby, they paged us. She was being comforted (away from the other children).

I'm sad for the children that didn't have such wonderful experiences. While my children are all outgoing, secure and adventurous, not all children are, and the cast members should be able to engage all types of children.

I will say, though...just because we choose to utilize what we consider a valuable piece of Disney cruising...the children's clubs...does not mean we want to dump our kids and have our own vacation, nor do I think that the reason you see bully children is because their parents dump them. That may be the case sometimes, but generalizing is never good...we choose to cruise because I believe it is the perfect balance of family and alone time. If I had experienced what some others on here had, I may have felt the same...but speaking for myself, I choose to take advantage of the childcare because my children truly LOVE it, not because I am dumping them, not caring who is watching them.

 

[abayaflowers]

It saddens me greatly to read some of these stories.

My children loved the club and the lab, all three of our Disney Wonder cruises. A couple of counselers even remembered them from previous cruises, and they were truly delightful.

Yes, at times the room was chaotic, but so is my own house, and I only have four kids compared to the many in the club during slide time .

My daughter was 3 and newly fully potty trained our first cruise...she loved every second of it, and would tell me to leave. At first I felt guilty, but she clearly wanted to be there, so at times I would stay with her, or check in often. My twins, first age 9 when first at the lab, made best friends instantly and wanted to live in the lab, we had to drag them out.

On our cruise last July, it was just my littlest with my sister and me...and we had the same experience. The only time she cried was when they practiced for the last day graduation show and she didn't want to participate. I came in as a cast membr was hugging her and showing her some things she could play with instead.

In December, my whole family of 6 went...again, the three younger ones loved the clubs. And when my 4 year old wasn't feeling well, poor baby, they paged us. She was being comforted (away from the other children).

I'm sad for the children that didn't have such wonderful experiences. While my children are all outgoing, secure and adventurous, not all children are, and the cast members should be able to engage all types of children.

I will say, though...just because we choose to utilize what we consider a valuable piece of Disney cruising...the children's clubs...does not mean we want to dump our kids and have our own vacation, nor do I think that the reason you see bully children is because their parents dump them. That may be the case sometimes, but generalizing is never good...we choose to cruise because I believe it is the perfect balance of family and alone time. If I had experienced what some others on here had, I may have felt the same...but speaking for myself, I choose to take advantage of the childcare because my children truly LOVE it, not because I am dumping them, not caring who is watching them.

My children had a great time, too. My DD8, two years ago, woke up everyday and wanted to go to the Oceaneer's everyday. We barely saw her. Our DD4 totally loved it. It was magical for her. It is important to communicate and introduce yourself to all the counselors. Ask many questions even meet the Manager of the all the clubs. That way, they know that you are serious. Stay with your children until you know that they are comfortable. My DD4 has severe food allergies and she had to keep an epi-pen, jr. handy which she knows how to use. That was our only challenge. Everyday, introduce yourself to all the counselors and know them by name. It takes time, but it is important to know all the staff. Also talk with your children and tell them to page you if they are not happy. Hopefully, that DCL will take care of the parent's original issue with the Oceaneer's. I would keep writing letters until you do get an appropriate response. They do listen and they are a big company. Good luck!

 

[SlimKat]

I totally understand and agree with the original poster regarding the children's program and I haven't even cruised with Disney yet. My concern (and I have had this concern from the day I started researching Disney cruises) is the counselor:child ratio. I think it is insane for Disney to have one counselor for every 15 three to four year olds and one counselor to every 25 five year old and up. That is crazy. Not even the summer camps in my area allow that kind of set up and they have the same group of kids for eight weeks straight for eight hours a day. How can the CMs even begin to know and care for a child and determine their idiosyncracies when the children in their charge changes every 3, 4, or 7 days depending on the length of the cruise? Let's face it some of us can hardly keep a handle on our own kids and we know them for years. How on earth can a stranger handle 15 or 25 kids they know nothing about? And I am certain that many of those CMs are probably childless and/or are practically children themselves (meaning fresh out of high school).

I am also concerned about this new policy of grouping kids by interest regardless of age. There is no way I am going to place my 3 year old in a group to be run over and bullied by older kids. Who is going to be able to fend for him when the counselor has 14 other kids to look after? Chances are the counselor won't even see the offender or the offense.

I just pray that nothing serious ever happens to any of the children in Disney's care. It disturbs me greatly when someone mentions that their child was crying in the bathroom for a seemingly long time. It disturbs me when a child is missing for a short time because a CM let the child out. It disturbs me when a child is left to find his way to the Oceaneer Lab unassisted and their parent is not informed to pick up their child. It disturbs me when a counselor instructs the children in her charge to go on a scavenger hunt around the ship and meet back at a certain time and half of those kids can't even tell time (I witnessed that one myself on a different cruise line). All of these things disturb me alot.

 

[CyndiandChris]

I, too, am very saddened and surprised to read the negative stories. My DD loved the OC and is looking forward to this year's cruise mainly for that reason. She has already said that she doesn't want to spend any time with us this year (she didn't spend much time with us last year's cruise). While I'm delighted she loves it so much, I did hope that I would spend at least some time with her. Our DS only spent time with us on Castaway Cay last year, but during the time with us, he stayed in the water chatting up a girl he met, so he wasn't really with us, either.

I found the counselors to be fabulous and was very pleased with them!!!

 

[walloon]

Just had to jump in here with our experiences. First of all I have a DS 7 and DS 10. I am also a teacher, have taught pre-k up to 8th grade.

We took a three day cruise last year, it was our first, my kids loved loved loved the club and the lab. We couldn't get them out.

We are just back from our 2nd cruise, a 7, ooops meant 6 day trip on the Magic, with the new format. We told our boys about the change before we left, because this meant they could be together this year. (this could be a good or bad thing depending on the day)
They were very excited about this. Well, it didn't turn out quite as planned. The lab was PACKED, and it was with many many young children. My kids would spend about 45 minutes there tops and then would page us. It wasn't for my 10 year old anymore, he felt very displaced having to hang in the lab with 5 year olds, and he wasn't allowed to go to Ocean Quest, too young.


Also some other things I noticed:
The staff seemed very overwhelmed, not near as friendly and fun with the kids as last years cruise. I think they just didn't know what to do with all the kids of various ages, and it was hard to play games with the older kids etc with the younger ones coming over and interrupting etc.

Also, they were not doing the activities there were on the navigator, some events I could coax my kids into going to such as capture the flag, or mario kart tournament, they would show up and then never do the event. We would pick them up and ask "how did your game go?" and they would say oh we didn't get to play or do it because of xyz. This disappointed both them and me.

So, in short, we weren't really impressed with the kids clubs this trip.

 

[emma'smom]

That's too bad as we are headed out in April on the Transatlantic and my dd7 (almost 8--in May) was really glad to hear about the changes. This means she won't have to choose between the Lab and the Club. For her, this will be great since she is right on the cusp between the two age ranges. For my dd5 (just turned 5), I was also pleased since she is still in preschool and I suspect she will gravitate toward the activities for 4 year olds since they seem to be more preschool focused (as opposed to the 5-7 year old stuff that was more K/1 focused).

Well...they say the Transatlantic Cruises have a very limited # of kids (like 300 total)....so maybe the CM's won't feel so overwhelmed.

Just had to jump in here with our experiences. First of all I have a DS 7 and DS 10. I am also a teacher, have taught pre-k up to 8th grade.

We took a three day cruise last year, it was our first, my kids loved loved loved the club and the lab. We couldn't get them out.

We are just back from our 2nd cruise, a 7, ooops meant 6 day trip on the Magic, with the new format. We told our boys about the change before we left, because this meant they could be together this year. (this could be a good or bad thing depending on the day)
They were very excited about this. Well, it didn't turn out quite as planned. The lab was PACKED, and it was with many many young children. My kids would spend about 45 minutes there tops and then would page us. It wasn't for my 10 year old anymore, he felt very displaced having to hang in the lab with 5 year olds, and he wasn't allowed to go to Ocean Quest, too young.


Also some other things I noticed:
The staff seemed very overwhelmed, not near as friendly and fun with the kids as last years cruise. I think they just didn't know what to do with all the kids of various ages, and it was hard to play games with the older kids etc with the younger ones coming over and interrupting etc.

Also, they were not doing the activities there were on the navigator, some events I could coax my kids into going to such as capture the flag, or mario kart tournament, they would show up and then never do the event. We would pick them up and ask "how did your game go?" and they would say oh we didn't get to play or do it because of xyz. This disappointed both them and me.

So, in short, we were really impressed with the kids clubs this trip.

 

[jimmyc17]

We are happy about the new rules in one regard. Our 7 year old is only three months away from her eighth birthday and she can now spend time with her 10 year old sister.

 

[clay's crew]

Just had to jump in here with our experiences. First of all I have a DS 7 and DS 10. I am also a teacher, have taught pre-k up to 8th grade.

We took a three day cruise last year, it was our first, my kids loved loved loved the club and the lab. We couldn't get them out.

We are just back from our 2nd cruise, a 7, ooops meant 6 day trip on the Magic, with the new format. We told our boys about the change before we left, because this meant they could be together this year. (this could be a good or bad thing depending on the day)
They were very excited about this. Well, it didn't turn out quite as planned. The lab was PACKED, and it was with many many young children. My kids would spend about 45 minutes there tops and then would page us. It wasn't for my 10 year old anymore, he felt very displaced having to hang in the lab with 5 year olds, and he wasn't allowed to go to Ocean Quest, too young.


Also some other things I noticed:
The staff seemed very overwhelmed, not near as friendly and fun with the kids as last years cruise. I think they just didn't know what to do with all the kids of various ages, and it was hard to play games with the older kids etc with the younger ones coming over and interrupting etc.

Also, they were not doing the activities there were on the navigator, some events I could coax my kids into going to such as capture the flag, or mario kart tournament, they would show up and then never do the event. We would pick them up and ask "how did your game go?" and they would say oh we didn't get to play or do it because of xyz. This disappointed both them and me.

So, in short, we weren't really impressed with the kids clubs this trip.

I agree with Walloon's assessment of the club. It was pretty chaotic most of the time, and the counselors were overwhelmed. I have a three-year old, and we limited his time there because it was such a free-for-all.
One thing I'd suggest for checking out little ones: Write your password down on a piece of paper to show the counselor. You have to virtually shout your word over the noise, which totally defeats the purpose. You might also insist they check KTTW cards before releasing your child. The counselors "knew" us because we stayed with our son in the club a lot of the time, or at least checked on him every half hour or so, but with all the people checking in or out, I can see how a little one could slip through. Shudder...

 

[tefrench]

I just read parts of this thread and would say that our experience two weeks ago in the lab was a positive one. We allowed our children (DD 8 and DS 10) to self check themselves in and out of the club. The only complaint I had was that the times we stopped to pick the kids up it took too long. There were a lot of kids in the lab so I can understand if a child needed some one on one it would be hard for the staff to meet those needs. If I had a bad experience I would certainly want to inform DCL so they can take corrective action.

 

[katzs13]

I have a 3 year old and I will feel quilty leaving her. She is outgoing once she gets to know you but, I hope she will have fun on our cruise. The kids programming seems fun, but it is the councelers who will make or break the level of fun the kids will have. On the Disney website it does state that the councelers must have 2 years experience with kids to get hired. That makes me feel better.

 

[TonyaH]

We were on the Wonder on 3/09 & 8/09 and my DD4, loved it. She wanted to go to the club every day. She even talks about the club to all her friends at pre school. I thought the counselors were great. My DD12 received a t-shirt with Mickey drawn on it and he left her a note saying he missed he at the farewell party. I thought that was a nice touch, and my DD thought it was great!

 

[Raven9 Studios]

3/2/10

To whom it may concern:

Thank you for your e-mail.

While I appreciate your kind words for the dining staff, I hope you will
accept my heartfelt regret for any disappointment with your cruise
vacation. We truly want all of our guests to have fond memories of
their time spent with us, and I was very sorry to learn of your
observations and disappointment with the youth activities areas. As you
may know, our cruise ships offer the largest area (15,000 square feet)
of children’s space of any ship afloat with the largest number of
children’s counselors of any ship at sea. Our counselor to child ratio
is approximately one counselor for every 15 kids. We recruit
individuals who have experience working with children, and they undergo
further training in the areas of age behavior, discipline, quality
childcare, and service. The performance of our counselors is as vital
to our programming as the activities we offer, and they are always
expected to maintain our company's reputation for providing exemplary
care and service. Please accept my assurance that your concerns have
been taken very seriously, and your remarks will be reviewed by the
appropriate shipboard officers and shoreside management teams.

Again, I truly regret any disappointment and hope these concerns will
not affect your regard for Disney. There is magic in the Disney name,
and we hope to have the chance to sail with you again one day soon.

Sincerely,

Joel Hayes
Executive Guest Correspondent
Disney Cruise Line

 

[loveysbydesign]

3/2/10

To whom it may concern:

Thank you for your e-mail.

While I appreciate your kind words for the dining staff, I hope you will
accept my heartfelt regret for any disappointment with your cruise
vacation. We truly want all of our guests to have fond memories of
their time spent with us, and I was very sorry to learn of your
observations and disappointment with the youth activities areas. As you
may know, our cruise ships offer the largest area (15,000 square feet)
of children’s space of any ship afloat with the largest number of
children’s counselors of any ship at sea. Our counselor to child ratio
is approximately one counselor for every 15 kids. We recruit
individuals who have experience working with children, and they undergo
further training in the areas of age behavior, discipline, quality
childcare, and service. The performance of our counselors is as vital
to our programming as the activities we offer, and they are always
expected to maintain our company's reputation for providing exemplary
care and service. Please accept my assurance that your concerns have
been taken very seriously, and your remarks will be reviewed by the
appropriate shipboard officers and shoreside management teams.

Again, I truly regret any disappointment and hope these concerns will
not affect your regard for Disney. There is magic in the Disney name,
and we hope to have the chance to sail with you again one day soon.

Sincerely,

Joel Hayes
Executive Guest Correspondent
Disney Cruise Line

WOW...I can not believe that they are proud to say that the staff to child ratio is 1 to 15....that's way too many kids per counselor, especially now that the younger ones can be mixed with the older ones. 1 to 12 would be good or 1 to 10 would be even better. No wonder many of them seem stressed!

 

[RadioFanatic]

WOW...I can not believe that they are proud to say that the staff to child ratio is 1 to 15....that's way too many kids per counselor, especially now that the younger ones can be mixed with the older ones. 1 to 12 would be good or 1 to 10 would be even better. No wonder many of them seem stressed!

I agree - for three to four year olds for daycare in NY, the requirement is 5 kids to a teacher. My son will be almost three and potty changed, but with that new piece of news, he will only go there with us, never without.

 

[ptk55369]

I just got back from a 7 day on the Magic and we saw mostly good but certainly some of the chaos. Our two kids 7 and 4 enjoyed themselves and really loved the planned activities. We used them sparingly as we wanted to have our kids with us as much as possible, but they still spent a couple of hours there perhaps 4 or 5 of the 7 days. They even ate there for one dinner and, as we checked in our daughter late, we got to see the setup in Topsider's and I was pleasantly surprised by how efficient and organized it was.

I have a link below that if you scroll to the bottom of the page, that describes a planned activity that I witnessed when I went to pick up my son. I was there for 30 minutes and it was outstanding. It was part of Boys Chill time and I think was designed to keep a large number of kids engaged. They played a game of rolling dodgeball afterward as well.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2414168

However, with any care situation there are going to be times when it is incredibly chaotic and where less than ideal things happen. Overall I was impressed by both the number and quality of the counselors. I didn't see a lot of intra-counselor chatting almost all were focused on the kids. We have one shy and one outgoing child but both were known by name by a number of the counselors. I saw them working with a couple of rowdy kids and they were gentle but firm and reacted exactly as I expected. We enjoyed the multi-cultural access the kids had to counselors from all over the world.

Bottom line is I think there is probably room for improvement in all of these programs and I feel badly for those of you who felt like you don't have confidence in the clubs sympathize with you for what you observed and experienced. I think the situation (a large group of kids who flow through without pattern, notice, consistency, groundrules) is ripe for chaos and I would be surprised to find any cruise kids program provide the kind of flexibility and overall care and engagement without there being hourly "incidents" as described by the original poster.

We had our kids in daycare at home when they were younger and the kind of care received varied dramatically by who was doing the care. Some we loved and some we didn't. What I feel most is missing from the kids club atmosphere is a the feeling that someone is in charge. It would have been useful to have a head care person (in a bright red shirt or something) managing the counselors, answering questions, looking out for the shy unengaged kids and managing the flow. I think that would make a true difference and it would probably give us all someone to approach about the things we see or hear or need to hash throuigh to feel comfortable with the clubs.

My two cents.

Interesting thread.

 

[Barbossa]

We took Disney Cruises in 2007 and 2008 and the counselors at the Club and Lab were incredible. What I'm reading here makes me think that the quantity and quality of the staff have been reduced because of the recession.

 

[When I Grow Up]

We did Cruise #6 on the Wonder this past Feb 4th. We have taken our Grandson (who is now 9 years old) on all six. From Cruise #1 in Jan of 2008 until Cruise #5 in Sept of 2009 I have to say that the Oceaneer Lab staff and the whole experience was very good although the grandson was bored with the same old programs and preferred to just hang out there and play videogames. The CMs were alway very kind and were very caring. All in all a great experience. Cruise #6 under the "new" system however is a different story. The combining of the age groups turned the Lab into uncontrolled chaos. You can't blame the CMs as they were totally overwhelmed with the kids. The sheer volume (both in noise and quantity) was unbelievable. There is no way that any cruise line could cope with that mess. This is one of those brilliant coprorate ideas that is badly flawed and need to be fixed. Having 12 year olds and 3 year olds swarming around together in overcrowded conditions is not a good idea. The CMs became very stressed and so I can understand some of the comments on the earlier posts.
We did talk with a senior level CM in the Lab and were told that on the Wonder there were some conference room spaces that were being converted to a facility dedicated for use by the "tweens" aged 10 - 12. We were told that the Magic already has this facility. I think she said it was called Ocean Quest but was not sure. That might help a little.
Anyway we are off on Cruise #7 on the Wonder in July so we will see if what we were told is correct. This past cruise our Grandson spent more time in the lab than he had done on previous cruises. He prefers the fact that he does not have to participate in some of the activities if he does not want to and usually hangs out with a couple of new friends.
I still think the Oceaneer lab is great and would say take the time to meet the councellors and understand what the programs and processes are. One can only hope that Disney reverts back to their tried and true approach of grouping the ages. Don't base your decision about DCL just on a one off experience. We just live a 30 minute drive from Port Canaveral so we intend to keep going back and going back until either our money runs out or they throw us off. LOL

 

[loveysbydesign]

Bumping simply to see how others who've sailed recently have enjoyed or not enjoyed the kids clubs!