Major Policy Change in DVC/DCL Trade Policy UPDATE ON POST #193

I just talked to our club rep about 30 min ago DVC just found out about it Friday night and they are frantic. Jenne told the have stopped all Dvc members from using points for a cruise until 2012. WE just got under the wire last month when we made our final payment for the up coming Western we went half points and rest cash. As of Friday no .
DVC is working on the problem and hopes to streighten it out with DCL.
AS Jenne said its going to kill our sale presinations.
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Who knows, that may be accurate, but as soon as I heard this on Friday, I made sure that on Monday (after your rep said DCL shut down all ressies) my agent was able to cancel my room and book me a new room on my Nov 2011 cruise... so still not sure the whole thing is completely done till 2012. Guess we will have to wait and see for sure as we hear more people trying to book in Nov-Dec 2011 and what results they get.
 
I am in a third group, I joined in 2001 and remember the customer service then. I dislike some changes and embrace others. My biggest complaint is the lack of respect toward members. They need to improve communications. I have mixed opinion of Jim Lewis.

I think I probably fall in your group too Dave. Isn't nice to know you are not alone :)
 
I just talked to our club rep about 30 min ago DVC just found out about it Friday night and they are frantic. Jenne told the have stopped all Dvc members from using points for a cruise until 2012. WE just got under the wire last month when we made our final payment for the up coming Western we went half points and rest cash. As of Friday no .
DVC is working on the problem and hopes to streighten it out with DCL.
AS Jenne said its going to kill our sale presinations.
__________________

Yes, as I reported here on Friday afternoon, DVC MS had only just found out about this new policy that day. I was just amazed at the timing that I called back that very day to find this out..

I am unhappy with the new policy at this time, but I am still holding out hope that they will be able to modify this program. Personally, if they want to bring on a different cruise line to partner with, or in addition to DCL, I would not be opposed to that. With the cruise aspect so popular I think DVC will have to work out something on this one way or the other..
 
You do know they suspended all cruises, not just Alaska right through next Septemeber of 2011. This isn't "simply" availability issue. There was plenty of availability on Thursday and then NONE on Friday. That is not "its hard to book a DCL to Alaska". While they are saying the option to book cruises still exists, it doesn't in reality. So we will see how they rectify it in the future. I think it would be nice if they offered another cruise line.

From what I have read, the all part is not true. Some people were able to book Fri or Sat based previous posts I read. But for reason(s) not completely known to us, the ability to book with points dropped dramatically overnight so VERY little is left until after Fall 2011. However, it is true that it is not a simple availability issue based on the quick change in information given by MS. DVC/DCL need to get back on track to communicate correct information to memebers.

...oh wait thats right I have to know what they are really saying when they are talking because it's all a "sales pitch".

Yes, sales pitches rarely lay out the truth in the clearest way, but the buyer has an opportunity to do research, review the product, ask questions, read the contract, etc. prior to a purchase. Unfortunately, this is the time when it becomes evident that the sales person did not lay out all the details in a truthful or complete manner. While I don't agree this is ethical, it will probably not change so it's important for the buyer to take on a large amount of responsibility in the situation. (Nothing agains the poster of the comment, just my opinion for people in general, and I do realize immediate changes in policy will throw a wrench my thinking :duck:).


But I *don't* know that. I don't know what's going on. Some people say there are cruises available. Others say there aren't. Meanwhile, people are booking cruises. And there seems to be less availability. It's been one business day. Has there been a change? A temporary one? Permanent? A glitch? Is Disney playing games to make something look good for quarterly reporting? Beats the heck out of me. I'm willing to wait a bit before figuring out what changed and why. What I do know is that the OP had trouble booking their cruise, but did eventually book it.
Look, I get the fact that if you planned on booking a cruise, and can't.. .you are going to be angry and upset. My comment wasn't directed at those people. It was directed at those saying DVC has gone downhill, was so much better in the early days etc. For most things, it's essentially the same product, if anything, slightly better.

It stinks for the members that are affected, but I agree with you here, no one knows the exact reason(s) this "policy" went into place and what the long term outcome will be.

OK, I'll go on record and put myself on the hot seat here...
Actually, I hope they don't. I just feel they would be directing their anger in the wrong direction. I would much rather see them use the member satisfaction email address and let *them* have it instead. The member satisfaction mail box is set up to feed our level of satisfaction (or lack of) back to DVC management. Attacking a sales guide who is simply trying to make a living and feed their family isn't the right forum. He doesn't necessarily have a direct line back to the appropriate level of management.

I hate this recent change DVC has pulled out of their butts on us. But I'm standing up for the cruise guides because my experience has shows that these are generally the more seasoned guides who know what they are doing and aren't trying to intentionally mislead you. Yes, they use the cruise as a perk to generate sales because they believe, as much as we do, that it will stick around. Darn it people, it's easy to get angry at anyone in the organization right now, but if you truly want to make a difference, make your dissatisfaction heard at the right level!

:thumbsup2 Right on here! A group of DVC members attacking a guide on the cruise is not an appropriate format to relay your opinions and frustration. They don't make the decisions, they are just the messenger. I'm sure even in October they will still be talking up the ability to cruise; I just hope they revise it to make it more relevent to the current situation.
Anytime you rank, rate, survey, comment, etc it is helpful to specifically state why you are upset or happy, what worked or didn't and what should they continue to do or suggestions for improvements (I learned this from professors during grad school)

While I agree DVC needs to improve upon in communication changes to their members in a timely manner (and so does my company, if they are reading ;)), even if they did send out something 2 weeks ago, there are still members that wouldn't have been able to make or change their plans. I know that thought doesn't all of the sudden make the situation better for members but just something to think about (again not saying lack of communication is not acceptable). How can DVC make it fair and suitable for the majority of members? (Mostly a rhetorical question for you to think about when emailing member satisfaction, but also makes for a good thread discussion if one chooses).

Sorry, I like to write a lot :o, but thanks to anyone who stuck with post! :)
 

Are you saying you are comfortable sitting in a presentation on the cruise ship and letting them state that you can buy DVC points and trade out to the DCL KNOWING that has been suspended?

If cruising is *still* suspended come October, I'll be very surprised if you find any guides on that ship still telling people how easy it is to use points for cruising.

I really believe DVC was caught with their shorts down with this mess and that they will work to resolve the issue. They recognize they have a *lot* riding on this. The question is, how important does the cruise line feel we are to them?


I don't understand that kind of integrity just to make a living.

Again, I can find young guides with questionable ethics that are willing to tell you anything just to make a sale. My experience has been that those young, inexperienced guides aren't usually the guides they staff the cruises with. Yes, I've seen some young, inexperienced DVC staff on board the ships working the kiosks. During our recent Baltic cruise, we only visited the DVC staff once because we just weren't feeling the magic from them. There was a feeling that they really didn't want to be there. But the guides they have leading those teams are generally very experienced staff who don't feel they need to mislead you to make a sale.
 
Yes, as I reported here on Friday afternoon, DVC MS had only just found out about this new policy that day. I was just amazed at the timing that I called back that very day to find this out..

I am unhappy with the new policy at this time, but I am still holding out hope that they will be able to modify this program. Personally, if they want to bring on a different cruise line to partner with, or in addition to DCL, I would not be opposed to that. With the cruise aspect so popular I think DVC will have to work out something on this one way or the other..

I agree Carol, I would be happy with that compromise of a possible trade out to another cruise line. I don't envy the guides as they have to deal with the fallout of how to present this new information. My only hope is that they do present it as honestly as possible once they find out all the information from DVC or DCL who ever implemented this.
 
If cruising is *still* suspended come October, I'll be very surprised if you find any guides on that ship still telling people how easy it is to use points for cruising.

I really believe DVC was caught with their shorts down with this mess and that they will work to resolve the issue. They recognize they have a *lot* riding on this. The question is, how important does the cruise line feel we are to them?

I agree it sounds like they were really surprised by this, so you and CarolAnn may be right that it is DCL that has issued this moritorium on DVC

Again, I can find young guides with questionable ethics that are willing to tell you anything just to make a sale. My experience has been that those young, inexperienced guides aren't usually the guides they staff the cruises with. Yes, I've seen some young, inexperienced DVC staff on board the ships working the kiosks. During our recent Baltic cruise, we only visited the DVC staff once because we just weren't feeling the magic from them. There was a feeling that they really didn't want to be there. But the guides they have leading those teams are generally very experienced staff who don't feel they need to mislead you to make a sale.

Oh I agree. We had two very knowledgeable DVC CM's on our cruise two years ago. But they did say exactly what Tinman said earlier in the post that the points don't change.... of course we sailed right before they changed the charts! It was just dissappointing to hear they are still saying that, at least to a point in which a potential buyer heard that information as recently as this past week
 
I agree Carol, I would be happy with that compromise of a possible trade out to another cruise line. I don't envy the guides as they have to deal with the fallout of how to present this new information. My only hope is that they do present it as honestly as possible once they find out all the information from DVC or DCL who ever implemented this.

I don't envy them either! I am sure this is pretty horrifying for them too, and not something a good salesperson would want to have to deal with on the job.

I know DH spoke up years back when BCV first came out and we purchased an add on during a cruise. When the young man tried to feed the crowd that it did not matter which resort you bought at...well John set him straight! LOL!

The current Cruise team are seasoned, experienced and knowledgeable guides. I have faith they will be working on our behalf to bring about a better "change" for all... :)
 
so there can be no cruising on points until Oct, 2011 - right?

that means that DCL thinks they can get cash from the public - or is there something that I don't understand.

was surprised that the points chart were going down (well the 3 or 4 day cruise) for the time would go. so maybe DCL just wants more points. - did not read the entire thing.
 
so there can be no cruising on points until Oct, 2011 - right?

From what we can gather there are no cruises being booked on points until AT LEAST Oct 2011, but there are some conflicting info that some have been told bookings are not necessarily closed, but extremely limited at best. If you are interested in cruising, call and try

that means that DCL thinks they can get cash from the public - or is there something that I don't understand.


It doesn't seem to be about cash vs points. More likely, DVC simply used up their allotted rooms that DCL provides to them for booking on points and they have now cut DVC off cold turkey :)
 
Stay tuned for the 2012 DCL Point Charts to be off the charts!!

If we keep the option at all, it is not going to be pretty;)

DVD does not like to lose money and they have proven that time and time again.
 
Stay tuned for the 2012 DCL Point Charts to be off the charts!!

If we keep the option at all, it is not going to be pretty;)

DVD does not like to lose money and they have proven that time and time again.

I get the feeling you may have just described our Best-Case scenario. Guess we will have to wait and see
 
Hey Cmbar....

I will go on record and put myself on the hot seat with you. Well said.
Noone should abuse a sales guide like it was their fault. But that guide better not lie to me, they need to be straight, and if they want to sell DVC for a living, they need to be well versed and be able to answer the tough questions with honesty and integrity.

Well said Petraman
 
I am in a third group, I joined in 2001 and remember the customer service then. I dislike some changes and embrace others. My biggest complaint is the lack of respect toward members. They need to improve communications. I have mixed opinion of Jim Lewis.

I agree there have been times that DVC could have improved communications, but honestly there are times that you just can't. Obviously something happened with DCL and this change came out of left field. Same things happen whenever contracts are renegotiated (such as valet parking) where DVC did not preplan to eliminate something, etc. I would venture to guess that the number of DVC members that used valet parking are very small, same with cruises, how many of the total percent of DVC members are affected by this?

As I said before, if there was some changes that were announced, with warning, the system likely would be overwhelmed and the situation could be worse.

I understand what you are saying and I agree that we should definitely write to member satisfaction. But are you saying you are comfortable sitting in a presentation on the cruise ship and letting them state that you can buy DVC points and trade out to the DCL KNOWING that has been suspended? Or how about the guide who is telling people In a presentation that you can buy a X number of points and travel to Resort Y in the "dream season" for only this number of points, and saying the point charts haven't changed in 15 years. And they know they have. I don't understand that kind of integrity just to make a living. I think it is perfectly reasonable to tell people that periodically adjustments are necessary to the charts and therefore you may want to buy points accordingly. Or how about saying the cruise line is so popular in trade out that in fact, we have exceeded our DVC limit on the new itineraries. Don't you think that is much better than essentially lying to people? It is so disheartening to feel like you have been scnuckered after spending thousands of dollars! I may sit on those presentations when we cruise in October and then simply ask a question so that a Sales guide is able to explain more fully but I am not the type of person to let anyone "have it!"

There are a lot of hypotheticals being thrown out about guides. First, who is to say that even today they are saying this? It is very easy to cast a shadow over the guides and somehow they made a conscious effort to deceive people into buying. Last week DCL was an easy option, today, maybe not. Same with the points charts, many people were told they had not changed in 15 years, then they changed. I am sure guides have told people that the last reallocation was 15 years ago, which is the truth....

It seems that as usual there are some very well thought out posts with good information and then there are people that can't set their emotions aside and have decided that it is just time to bash DVC. This is an issue that is literally a couple of days old and the ultimate outcome is yet to be decided. I think most are willing to say lets wait and see, but others seem to be bound and determined to scream that the sky is falling.
 
I am so sorry for those who are going through this mess. They should have forewarned people before this happened. I am not a person who has a lot of points and I never thought I would use my points for a cruise. When we first purchased last year, I wasn't expecting a lot of perks. Just the ability to stay at a deluxe resort every year. Now it would be nice if we were able to purchase APs on a payment plan. That would be a good perk. :lovestruc I did book a Dream cruise for New Years next year and believe you me, its not cheap. But to purchase points to use for the cruise was not in the cards for me. It did cross my mind though.:laughing:
 
I understand what you are saying and I agree that we should definitely write to member satisfaction. But are you saying you are comfortable sitting in a presentation on the cruise ship and letting them state that you can buy DVC points and trade out to the DCL KNOWING that has been suspended? Or how about the guide who is telling people In a presentation that you can buy a X number of points and travel to Resort Y in the "dream season" for only this number of points, and saying the point charts haven't changed in 15 years. And they know they have. I don't understand that kind of integrity just to make a living. I think it is perfectly reasonable to tell people that periodically adjustments are necessary to the charts and therefore you may want to buy points accordingly. Or how about saying the cruise line is so popular in trade out that in fact, we have exceeded our DVC limit on the new itineraries. Don't you think that is much better than essentially lying to people? It is so disheartening to feel like you have been scnuckered after spending thousands of dollars! I may sit on those presentations when we cruise in October and then simply ask a question so that a Sales guide is able to explain more fully but I am not the type of person to let anyone "have it!"
I agree completely. My experience with my DVC guide has been that her ethics are entirely situational -- she will say anything she needs to say to make a sale. And she has been with DVC for many years -- in fact, I think she's done the Member Cruise several times.

The problem with sitting in a presentation and letting a timeshare salesperson lie is that we are buying into their ethics...or lack thereof. We may know the truth, but I guarantee most of the people in the room don't - even (or should I say especially?) on the Member Cruise.

I would not be disrespectful or inflammatory, but I certainly would not sit there and be a "good little member" if a DVC timeshare sales rep was lying or telling half-truths.
 
Stay tuned for the 2012 DCL Point Charts to be off the charts!!

If we keep the option at all, it is not going to be pretty;)

DVD does not like to lose money and they have proven that time and time again.

That is my thought exactly :scared1:

I was hoping to book a cruise on the Fantasy with partial points, but this may make it not possible. I'm guessing (hoping) they'll have things settled once they open bookings for the Fantasy.

Just curious, cash prices for DCL cruises increase for the most part the closer you get to sailing unless they offer a deal correct? So, since the DVC cruise points chart for the Dream came out in October/November when bookings started and they don't typically change at all for a particular cruise, does this mean that DCL could be losing money by accepting DVC Dream reservations today as opposed to cash Dream reservations booked today where the prices probably have gone up since the points charts were first posted?

Hmmmm......
 
That is my thought exactly :scared1:

I was hoping to book a cruise on the Fantasy with partial points, but this may make it not possible. I'm guessing (hoping) they'll have things settled once they open bookings for the Fantasy.

Just curious, cash prices for DCL cruises increase for the most part the closer you get to sailing unless they offer a deal correct? So, since the DVC cruise points chart for the Dream came out in October/November when bookings started and they don't typically change at all for a particular cruise, does this mean that DCL could be losing money by accepting DVC Dream reservations today as opposed to cash Dream reservations booked today where the prices probably have gone up since the points charts were first posted?

Hmmmm......

We have watched over the years the point charts for DCL, the DVC points are not on the first tiers of pricing for DCL. They are figured at a high to medium price tier. That is why points are not the best way to cruise even though I have cruised that way. When the ships are trying to fill up a particular cruise you will see them drop the cash price for some catagories dramatically. Some of the 2010 med cruises were lowered to 999.00 from prices that had been 2500.00 per person, those people that were booked with cash were given refunds. Those people that booked with points and the points were high got nothing back, so DCL usually does not lose when people book with points. DVC members are not getting some big price break because we are affiliated with the same company.
 
There are a lot of hypotheticals being thrown out about guides. First, who is to say that even today they are saying this? It is very easy to cast a shadow over the guides and somehow they made a conscious effort to deceive people into buying. Last week DCL was an easy option, today, maybe not. Same with the points charts, many people were told they had not changed in 15 years, then they changed. I am sure guides have told people that the last reallocation was 15 years ago, which is the truth....

It seems that as usual there are some very well thought out posts with good information and then there are people that can't set their emotions aside and have decided that it is just time to bash DVC. This is an issue that is literally a couple of days old and the ultimate outcome is yet to be decided. I think most are willing to say lets wait and see, but others seem to be bound and determined to scream that the sky is falling.

I admit I am emotional because I was just told by MS to book the cruise I want on cash and wait to book it on points until I am cruising in October. So yes, If I had known this was coming I would have booked that cruise two weeks ago.

However my frustration with the Guides is the "half truths". We had a poster on this very post who just got off the ship on Saturday. He was told the point charts hadn't changed in fifteen years and he could buy x number of points and stay at x resort in x season forever. Now that is a lie. First the charts have changed and second they will continue to change as is necessary. My response may be emotional but it is based on experience as I have sat through no less than 5 presentations through the years. The information is presented the same way, but when the guide in a presentation this past January told my Dsis that the point charts don't change, I was dissappointed and mentioned that they do occassionally change and he agreed. I didn't embarass him, but I was frustrated that he used the line about it not changing. I wanted my Dsis to buy so I didn't push it. But like Jim said above, I guess I was complicit with their spiel by not tell my Dsis and BIL that things change quite a bit with DVC. I really feel bad now since one of the exciting reasons they bought DVC was to give a honeymoon trip to their children one day. Her son got engaged on Sunday and said he wanted to go on a cruise for his honeymoon. My sister was happy that she could book a cruise for him for next year (aug 2011) but I had to tell her now she can't. Guess I am a bit emotional about it, but I have Personally witness half truths at various presentations by DVC guides.
 















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