Major Budget Buster - HEALTHCARE

[brunette8706]

Remember that people from other countries do post here and some of those places are generous too. The US is great and all of that but we don't have the market cornered on helping people.

I won't comment on Saudi Arabia.

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Hi Planogirl-

Yes, we know other countries are helpful and do contribute. And that's great, most countries can do what they can do to help out. The only thing that I am saying (per the wikipedia link's numbers), we are number one in contributing as a whole. We contributed, again, per the wikipedia link $28 billion. Now, I'm not going to slice and dice the data, stating well we are a bigger country with a larger population therefore we really only contributed X amount and we are 19th on the list. When countries need money we are always there to help them, as are other countries.

 

[Planogirl]

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Hi Planogirl-

Yes, we know other countries are helpful and do contribute. And that's great, most countries can do what they can do to help out. The only thing that I am saying (per the wikipedia link's numbers), we are number one in contributing as a whole. We contributed, again, per the wikipedia link $28 billion. Now, I'm not going to slice and dice the data, stating well we are a bigger country with a larger population therefore we really only contributed X amount and we are 19th on the list. When countries need money we are always there to help them, as are other countries.

That sounds reasonable to me. I am a little sensitive since I have another country in my life that I adore. I just want everybody to like everybody.

I don't know what the answer to the healthcare thing is. It's not working well now but I don't think that government control is the answer either.

 

[jodifla]

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I agree with health care reform, I just don't want the BIG GOVERNMENT taking MY PAYCHECK of hundreds of dollars a month to pay for these 50 million people. Do you want to pay an extra $500.00 per month to pay the TRILLION dollar bill? I don't. As I stated earlier I want to know who are these 50 million people? Why can't we see this so called Health care reform document? It was so GREAT, as you put it why didn't anyone read it? No one knows what's in it! Something smells fishy.

Health care bill has been online for months.

What taxes are you talking about?? There's been no tax increase tied to the bill.

 

[brunette8706]

That sounds reasonable to me. I am a little sensitive since I have another country in my life that I adore. I just want everybody to like everybody.

I don't know what the answer to the healthcare thing is. It's not working well now but I don't think that government control is the answer either.

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I understand. You're always reasonable and nice.

The answer to the healthcare reform, is to keep the government out of it. We do need health care reform. We need people to get the medicare that they need. People, especially older people and people on disability shouldn't have to spend hundreds on they prescription costs.

 

[jodifla]

From my understanding, pre-existing conditions could omit some people. Is that not true?

Marionnette is saying if you had money, you could pay for the doctor out of pocket. Doesn't address the insurance issue...and frankly, lots of hospitals want money upfront these days for procedures....or your insurance card.


So there's only open access to health care in this country if you are Warren Buffett...or have an insurance card.

 

[brunette8706]

Health care bill has been online for months.

What taxes are you talking about?? There's been no tax increase tied to the bill.

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Where did I mention taxes?

 

[Marionnette]

From my understanding, pre-existing conditions could omit some people. Is that not true?

A pre existing condition does not prevent one from seeking health care. It could get you denied for certain health insure policies. But everything has a price and there were always expensive options for those with pre existing conditions. I know b/c we carry a separate policy for just my husband. And we pay a hefty price for it. Even now we cannot add him to my policy. The law only covers the high risk people who did not carry insurance before.

 

[Planogirl]

Marionnette is saying if you had money, you could pay for the doctor out of pocket. Doesn't address the insurance issue...and frankly, lots of hospitals want money upfront these days for procedures....or your insurance card.


So there's only open access to health care in this country if you are Warren Buffett...or have an insurance card.

I did misread, thanks.

 

[Marionnette]

Marionnette is saying if you had money, you could pay for the doctor out of pocket. Doesn't address the insurance issue...and frankly, lots of hospitals want money upfront these days for procedures....or your insurance card.


So there's only open access to health care in this country if you are Warren Buffett...or have an insurance card.

They dont want the money up front but they do want a guarantee that they will get paid for the service that they provide. And only for non emergency services. They cannot deny emergency treatment based on the inability to pay.

 

[Duckiedee]

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I just don't want the BIG GOVERNMENT taking MY PAYCHECK of hundreds of dollars a month to pay for these 50 million people.

Now, I have no guarentees of what you would eventually be paying... but why is it you really hate paying into a system that provides more for all just because it would be government run?

It seems so many US citizens are already paying through the nose to PRIVATE companies and still not getting the care you deserve, and being regularly screwed or denied no matter who you are, but mostly the mid-income earners who pay more than they seemingly should have to. Many seem to be pay thousands and not even using the care regularly or preventatively because of the deductible... instead just paying out in case something terrrible happens, like an accident or kidney failure.

Kind of like fire insurance, but not paying to get your chimney swept or an electrician because you have reason to believe the wiring 'might' be faulty. Just thanking God you have insurance to cover the damage, but not doing anything to prevent it. I know I wouldn't want to treat my health that way, because if you don't have it, what do you have?

So although we may wait some time for some surgeries in Canada (and of course if you are bad off you DON'T wait) many US citizens are waiting to get care until it gets worse because they can't afford the deductible to see a specialist to even see if they need surgery or what kind of treatment plan...

So they wait until it is very late in the game and the overall care costs can go up because the condition is so much worse. Thereby increasing insurance costs.

It's the same wait, only in Canada we see the doctor right away and then we find out how urgent our care needs to be, we don't have to diagnose our own condition or guess if we need to go in or let an existing condition like diabetes get really bad. Or worse, be afraid to go because they might find a condition which could cause insurance woes in the future.

A professional, first-line physician does this.

If you were able to get things in gear so that you did have universal healthcare, my guess is everyone's costs would go down. s it that important to pay to big business if the government can reduce your overall costs in the long run. Would you want it if your costs went down? Like a haircut with colour - sometimes things have to look worse before they look better.

Obviously, I don't have all the answers and the US is a great nation, but I would say hands down our 'socialist' Canada has an enviable healthcare system that I wouldn't trade for the world. And you know what I still get to vote! And Big Brother does not live in my living room.

I just hate to see so much fear about making healthcare available and reasonable for all a country's citizens. Really, I promise, from someone who has grown up with it, it is NOT a bad thing at all!

 

[bluehen]

One fact is that many countries with national healthcare have better outcomes for up to half the money spent as measured by longevity. I really don't believe the governments of France (have to add that one), England, Sweden, and Canada are sigfnificantly better or worse than the US government. In England they just took a survey of who was the most influencial Brit ever. The winner was the politician that started national healthcare. There are many examples out there that we can copy and even improve upon. At this point something needs to be done and I would love to give National Healthcare a try. Healthcare costs are the biggest reason that our businesses have a distinct disadvantage to some foreign companys.

As for taxes......With not having to pay health care and the associated reduction in the cost of products the true financial impact may be very small.

The only negative I see is the loss of jobs due to the extraordinary amount of paperwork our current system requires. However , over history industies die and others come on. I would love to see the pencil pushers at my insurance company added to the dustbin of history like buggy whip manufacturers.

 

[sparklynails23]

We completed a survey for the insurance company and they are giving us a year with no deductible. As a result, our out-of-pocket for insurance will go down this year.

 

[SaraJayne]

We completed a survey for the insurance company and they are giving us a year with no deductible. As a result, our out-of-pocket for insurance will go down this year.

Wow, that's great for you. We have a pretty hefty deductible, so if our insurance did that, it would be a big break.

 

[SaraJayne]

One fact is that many countries with national healthcare have better outcomes for up to half the money spent as measured by longevity. I really don't believe the governments of France (have to add that one), England, Sweden, and Canada are sigfnificantly better or worse than the US government. In England they just took a survey of who was the most influencial Brit ever. The winner was the politician that started national healthcare. There are many examples out there that we can copy and even improve upon. At this point something needs to be done and I would love to give National Healthcare a try. Healthcare costs are the biggest reason that our businesses have a distinct disadvantage to some foreign companys.

As for taxes......With not having to pay health care and the associated reduction in the cost of products the true financial impact may be very small.

That's an interesting point, and one I hadn't thought of before. I'm not a business owner or involved in business in any way, so that's a new point for me.

So do businesses in countries that have national healthcare not pay more taxes to their governments than ours do here? If they don't, then they would obviously have more money (compared to businesses here) to put back into their products or facilities.

 

[Colleen27]

One fact is that many countries with national healthcare have better outcomes for up to half the money spent as measured by longevity. I really don't believe the governments of France (have to add that one), England, Sweden, and Canada are sigfnificantly better or worse than the US government. In England they just took a survey of who was the most influencial Brit ever. The winner was the politician that started national healthcare. There are many examples out there that we can copy and even improve upon. At this point something needs to be done and I would love to give National Healthcare a try. Healthcare costs are the biggest reason that our businesses have a distinct disadvantage to some foreign companys.

As for taxes......With not having to pay health care and the associated reduction in the cost of products the true financial impact may be very small.

The only negative I see is the loss of jobs due to the extraordinary amount of paperwork our current system requires. However , over history industies die and others come on. I would love to see the pencil pushers at my insurance company added to the dustbin of history like buggy whip manufacturers.

The thing is that people here focus on taxation and don't take into account the other ways we pay for our healthcare system.

Our system of employer-based insurance is a major drag on our economy. We pay for it on every item we buy because our entire pricing structure is built around several layers of companies paying for their employees' insruance. And we pay for it via slower economic growth and in the hinderance of entreprenurial ventures as people hold onto jobs for the benefits rather than pursuing business ideas or moving into more advantageous positions that involve a loss/reduction in employer-funded benefits. Employees don't get raises, stockholders get less than optimal returns, and employers have an active and ongoing disincentive for hiring.

There has got to be a better way. Even if universal health care isn't the answer, we've got to do something to push health insurance into an open, competitive marketplace for individual/family coverage rather than continuing to prop up a system that is broken at so many levels.

 

[Planogirl]

That's an interesting point, and one I hadn't thought of before. I'm not a business owner or involved in business in any way, so that's a new point for me.

So do businesses in countries that have national healthcare not pay more taxes to their governments than ours do here? If they don't, then they would obviously have more money (compared to businesses here) to put back into their products or facilities.

I was under the impression that both individuals and businesses paid more in taxes in those countries but who knows? I never see much discussion about taxes paid by businesses. That is an interesting point.

 

[Planogirl]

The thing is that people here focus on taxation and don't take into account the other ways we pay for our healthcare system.

Our system of employer-based insurance is a major drag on our economy. We pay for it on every item we buy because our entire pricing structure is built around several layers of companies paying for their employees' insruance. And we pay for it via slower economic growth and in the hinderance of entreprenurial ventures as people hold onto jobs for the benefits rather than pursuing business ideas or moving into more advantageous positions that involve a loss/reduction in employer-funded benefits. Employees don't get raises, stockholders get less than optimal returns, and employers have an active and ongoing disincentive for hiring.

There has got to be a better way. Even if universal health care isn't the answer, we've got to do something to push health insurance into an open, competitive marketplace for individual/family coverage rather than continuing to prop up a system that is broken at so many levels.

If companies could be free of the burden and we would receive the money that we pay out of pocket for health insurance (almost $500 a month in our case), could we afford to pay for our own insurance? Would some type of flat tax, the same for everyone, on both people and companies cover the whole cost?

I think that the cost of an overall healthcare system is a bit daunting. The US government isn't exactly known for their frugal ways so it's scary to think of what the final cost would be.

 

[bluehen]

I was under the impression that both individuals and businesses paid more in taxes in those countries but who knows? I never see much discussion about taxes paid by businesses. That is an interesting point.

All I know is that the health care system in all(not a fact...mostly uninformed opinion) costs a lot less. This savings I assume is shared by both individuals and businesses in their tax rates. The tax rates are in general higher in these countries but nowhere near my tax rate and health insurance.

 

[DeniseinNS]

I have a slightly off topic question for any Canadians out there, because I am really trying to get a grip on this. For a woman in labor, is an epidural covered by your insurance for just a normal Vag delivery.

the reason I ask is that I have a friend from another country, they have true socialized medicine. She told me that if you had a baby in her country, that under no circumstances would you be allowed an epidural, even if you offered to pay for it. It wasn't a covered procedure for this and you weren't allowed to have it. This sent me through the roof, as I had a horrific delivery and if I couldn't have an epidural I honestly don't know what I would have done.

The epidural is definatly available for a normal delivery, I had one with both of my kids. You do not need any insurance for the epidural, it is covered.
The only costs that I had while having my babies was the cost of upgrading to a private room ($16 a day)

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

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It looks like YOU want LARGE GOVERNMENT handouts. It looks like YOU want to have BIG GOVERNMENT assistance and lastly it looks like YOU want to squash FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Heck YOU even want "words" out of the dictionary. WOW, talk about stifling speech.

The government was meant to govern, PERIOD. Show me where in the United States Constitution where it's law to mandate purchasing healthcare? It's against the Constitution and it's illegal. Some states are going to sue when this becomes active.

You are attacking someone who has presented you with facts! Why can you not concede you are wrong?

SaraJayne, like MOST educated, rational people does NOT want BIGGER government . . . just BETTER government.