Major Budget Buster - HEALTHCARE

[brunette8706]

I'm hardly anti-USA and don't see how much a nation gives or doesn't give is relevant to the problem anyway. The issue is too many people without health insurance costing the system a lot of money if I'm not mistaken. How can that be resolved? One company can't hire everyone and even if they did they don't offer health insurance for a long period of time from what I hear. Most companies won't offer health insurance to part-timers who work under a certain number of hours either and retail loves part-time workers.

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Planogirl-

I know YOU aren't Anti-USA, but there are 1 or 2 posters on this board that I know have the perception as such. I still want to know how middle America and most people on this DIS forum are going to pay for this TRILLION dollar health care reform. I think it could be resolved other ways instead of going through the govenment. We all know how UNEFFICIENT the government is. May have supplemental health insurance where everyone pays a premium. I don't know the answer, but I do know I don't want health care run by the government. As I said I want less government not more.

 

[FayeW]

My girlfriend and her DH went to live in Canada for a while. She couldn't sing the praises of socialized healthcare for "free" enough. That was until...her DH had a serious sports related injury and had to wait weeks for a surgery that he would have had that day or the next in the US.

So I guess the only thing that stopped him from going back to the US the next day to have the surgery was the staggering cost? He had a choice...he could wait for the non-life threatening surgery and have it for free, or he could get off his wallet, go home, and pay for it. Really, the choice was his. We don't hold people hostage and force them to take what's available. If they have the means to pay for medical procedures elsewhere, they are welcome to exercise that option. As one of your countrymen pointed out earlier in this thread, sometimes people in the US wait for non-life threatening procegdures as well. Our wait times may be caused by the fact that we have a smaller number of health care practitoners spread over a larger geographical area. We have 1/10th of the population spread over a larger land mass, so there are fewer doctors and specialists but the area they service may be massive. You will not wait as long in big cities as you might in small communities or rural areas. However, your wait times are sometimes determined by waiting for your insurance company to approve a procedure.

You pay massive health premiums, which are for some reason that I can't fathom, tied to your employment. We pay high taxes (income tax, sales tax, etc). At the end of the day, I think that cost wise, it probably works out the same on either side of the border, but the difference for me is that employed or not, I don't have to worry about whether or not I can afford to take a sick or injured child to the hospital. That peace of mind is something I am quite willing to pay for, just as many of you are willing to pay the high insurance premiums for your family.

For those of you who are paying $1000+ per month in health premiums through your employer...are you obligated to have this insurance or could you buy private insurance through Blue Cross or something? Would that kind of coverage be even more expensive or is it to your benefit to have the insurance through your employer? Would it be more beneficial to have it separate in case of a job loss or something?

 

[brunette8706]

A lot of people couldn't afford that. It's hard enough to pay for what we have now IMO.

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You are exactly right. With the recession in full throttle, people out of jobs how could anyone possibly afford an extra $500.00 a month?

 

[Anjelica]

Nothing better than having the federal government involved with your healthcare - NOT. Ask any veteran who deals with the VA officials - what a joke.

 

[FayeW]

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Boy, YOU really know how to skew Information. It looks like you gasp...forgo the very first paragraph of YOUR link stating that USA was the FIRST in the WORLD to donate to charitable organizations! But, you totally skip over it's relavence, and instead post about the USA being 19th on the bottom of the list!

from YOUR website:

To qualify as official development assistance (ODA), a contribution must contain three elements: 1.) be undertaken by the official sector (that is, a government or government agency); 2.) with promotion of economic development and welfare as the main objective; and 3.) at concessional financial terms (that is, with favorable loan terms.) Thus, by definition, ODA does not include private donations.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the countries giving the highest amounts of money (in absolute terms) are as follows:[1]

1. United States - $28.67 billion
2. France - $12.43 billion
3. Germany - $11.98 billion
4. United Kingdom - $11.50 billion
5. Japan - $9.48 billion
6. Spain - $6.57 billion
7. Netherlands - $6.43 billion
8. Sweden - $4.55 billion
9. Norway - $4.09 billion
10. Canada - $4.01 billion
11. Italy - $3.31 billion
12. Denmark - $2.81 billion
13. Australia - $2.76 billion
14. Belgium - $2.60 billion
15. Switzerland - $2.31 billion
16. Finland - $1.29 billion
17. Austria - $1.15 billion
18. Ireland - $1.00 billion
19. South Korea - $0.82 billion
20. Greece - $0.61 billion
21. Portugal - $0.51 billion
22. Luxembourg - $0.40 billion
23. New Zealand - $0.31 billion

Based on the statistics you yourself provided, that works out to $87.87 per American citizen (using 330,000,000 as population). By comparison Canada's contribution was only about 1/7th of yours in dollars, but worked out to much higher per person, at $121.51.

Just putting it in perspective.

 

[brunette8706]

This is a subject (Healthcare reform) I am very passionate about. I'm sure most people here are good people, many are very nice. But, it just frustrates me to no end that we, mostly middle Americans' (most of which, I would think are on this forum) would have to pay for this Trillion dollar Health care ticket. Where does it end?

 

[ceemys]

You must work at my company! Our insurance is SO screwed up and it just aggravates me to no end! Our premiums are going up AND we have to pay everything else out of pocket up until our deductible is reached at $5,000. THEN the insurance company pays 80%. It just Sucks! No prescription insurance, no co pay or anything. Just everything out of pocket... Then you have the new rules for FSA. All over the counter medicines have to have a prescription written by your physician. Just to get an $8 OTC medicine, you have to pay $80 + for the doctor visit.

 

[BoogasMom]

Another poster asked if we would be ok, if the gov't took another 500 per month so everyone could have healthcare.

I know many people disagree with it but I think I can live with that. What I can't stomach is the thought that an organization like Remote Area Medical has to operate in the USA and that they get lines that are days long.

(btw ... there are not all illegals on these lines...alot are white, unemployed, underemployed, low income people).

Really? Another $500 a month from our pay? We are barely getting by now with what we bring home every month. I would rather take care of my own family with what I work hard to bring home than have an additional $_(insert amt here)___ taken out to pay for others. Sorry if that sounds selfish but I have two sons who I was blessed with to raise and I would like to have enough money in my paycheck to feed and clothe them.

 

[wmharley]

Don't forget, tax cuts are due to expire this year. You will likely be paying more in taxes too. Enjoy the "change"!

I think government is taking our "change" in the form of 4 extra years of higher taxes to pay for this.

Much of the healthcare bill does not even take effect until 2014 including the mandate that you must buy insurance.

. Much of the items may not begin, but the taxing starts now.

The tax cuts that are expiring will only affect households with income above $250,000. per year. And then only the amount over that $250,000 with be taxed at the higher rate.

Great for anyone who makes more than that! You can afford to pay a bit more taxes. Especially since you have been saving money with these cuts for so many years.

incorrect. Everyone is getting taxed at a higher rate if the cuts are eliminated. Look it up.

That said, it amazes me when folks think that someone who worked hard and earned a nice living, automatically should have to foot everyone else's bill.

what needs to be done is eliminate some fraud.

This health care plan could have worked better if the Government mandated insurance companies to provide a base level of care. Then, at a cheaper rate to the government, provide a $5000 or so credit per person that isn't insured to sign up. The plan would cover basic services as routine checkups, some Xrays, etc. nothing major. This would encourage folks to get checked out and get basic services. Then, the companies would make their dough from actually upselling. Say you want higher limits, lower deductable, cancer coverage, etc. you pay for the difference.

Swiss have a similar model. Much cheaper than taxing like crazy, or rather, letting everything expire to pre XXXX levels so we pocket the difference.

My 2 plans (dental/Med) just went up, and other portions next year. Sorry, but this isn't soemthing I believe in-> higher taxes to pay for this.

Who's Prime Minister flew to the USA for treatment????

 

[FayeW]

What's with the ????

This was debunked about 11 pages ago...it was a Premier (Danny Williams, of Newfoundland, to be precise) not our Prime Minister. The procedure he had was not available in Newfoundland, so since he had to travel somewhere to get it anyway, he chose to go to Florida where he could recuperate in the vacation home he owns there. He could have gone to Toronto, or I believe a hospital in Alberta. Had he chosen either of those places then the surgery would have been covered under our health insurance. Since he is a multi-millionaire (doesn't even draw the premier's salary, it is donated to charity) he had the means to be able to go to Florida and have the surgery immediately. His body, his money, his choice.

Sure, he could have waited for the surgery, but he didn't need to since he could afford another option. That means that some other Canadian, who didn't have the means to travel for surgery moved one space closer to the surgery he/she needs. Win-win.

 

[Colleen27]

For those of you who are paying $1000+ per month in health premiums through your employer...are you obligated to have this insurance or could you buy private insurance through Blue Cross or something? Would that kind of coverage be even more expensive or is it to your benefit to have the insurance through your employer? Would it be more beneficial to have it separate in case of a job loss or something?

Private insurance is, for the most part, MUCH more expensive than group plans. That's the main reason people do get it through their employers, even at very high cost. When I was working for a company that offered insurance we were paying 9K/year for it; the same level of coverage purchased privately from a non-profit insurer would run a little over 15K.

 

[Colleen27]

This health care plan could have worked better if the Government mandated insurance companies to provide a base level of care. Then, at a cheaper rate to the government, provide a $5000 or so credit per person that isn't insured to sign up. The plan would cover basic services as routine checkups, some Xrays, etc. nothing major. This would encourage folks to get checked out and get basic services. Then, the companies would make their dough from actually upselling. Say you want higher limits, lower deductable, cancer coverage, etc. you pay for the difference.

I think what we really need is universal catastrophic coverage, single payer but contracted out rather than directly govt run. End medical emergency-induced bankruptcies and other high-dollar defaults, as well as some of the financial incentive to look for someone to sue over medical crises, and cost should come down. Insurance companies can sell gap coverage to cover the deductible, and we can eliminate both medicare and medicaid in favor of subsidizing that fixed amount for those who cannot afford their out of pocket share.

 

[padawans]

I have worked in healthcare for 15 years. Of the 5 patients I took care of yesterday only 1 paid taxes. I had 1 drug addict, one illegal, one 45 year old that was to fat to work, and one inmate that had cut his arm open to get out of jail for a few days. No I dont work at a county hopital. This is a hospital in nice suburban neighborhood. This is a typical day for me and the normal type patients I have seen everyday for 15 years. This is why your premiums are so high. I won't even get into the people that fake illness to get drugs, or the patients that go outside to smoke the day after surgery, or the border crossers that spend a month in the hospital with kidney failure from severe dehydration. Not to mention all the morbidly obese people. Sorry if this offends anyone,but obesity is getting out of control in this country and causes so many health problems. 300+ pounds is a common thing to see in the hospital. I could go on and on but I will stop. I have no idea how to fix the problem. I just know its unfair to people that work pay taxes and take care of their health. I don't want to pay anymore taxes to support these people. On the other hand maybe I shouldn't complain it keeps me employed.

 

[mhsjax]

So I guess the only thing that stopped him from going back to the US the next day to have the surgery was the staggering cost? He had a choice...he could wait for the non-life threatening surgery and have it for free, or he could get off his wallet, go home, and pay for it. Really, the choice was his. We don't hold people hostage and force them to take what's available. If they have the means to pay for medical procedures elsewhere, they are welcome to exercise that option. As one of your countrymen pointed out earlier in this thread, sometimes people in the US wait for non-life threatening procegdures as well. Our wait times may be caused by the fact that we have a smaller number of health care practitoners spread over a larger geographical area. We have 1/10th of the population spread over a larger land mass, so there are fewer doctors and specialists but the area they service may be massive. You will not wait as long in big cities as you might in small communities or rural areas. However, your wait times are sometimes determined by waiting for your insurance company to approve a procedure.

You pay massive health premiums, which are for some reason that I can't fathom, tied to your employment. We pay high taxes (income tax, sales tax, etc). At the end of the day, I think that cost wise, it probably works out the same on either side of the border, but the difference for me is that employed or not, I don't have to worry about whether or not I can afford to take a sick or injured child to the hospital. That peace of mind is something I am quite willing to pay for, just as many of you are willing to pay the high insurance premiums for your family.

For those of you who are paying $1000+ per month in health premiums through your employer...are you obligated to have this insurance or could you buy private insurance through Blue Cross or something? Would that kind of coverage be even more expensive or is it to your benefit to have the insurance through your employer? Would it be more beneficial to have it separate in case of a job loss or something?

I would hate to think that my Dh would have had to wait for his non life threatening surg to fix his knee after a soccer injury. They slapped him in surgery 3 days later. He was hurt on the weekend. They kept him doped up because of the pain. He hyperextended his knee all the up to his chest.

Also my insurance company approved a procedure done on me in one day. It wasn't life threatening, but a quality of life issue and they got approval almost immediately.

I am spoiled, I would want to wait one extra minute.

 

[DISNEYNV]

Our insurance at work just went up as well. The coverage is worse and copays are more! On top of
that we put the kids on my
plan and one week later I was laid off! We had to put my kids on my husbands plan that was worse coverage than mine. I recently applied and was accepted for private insurance. It is really cheaper than going on COBRA or my husbands plan. It's crazy! Most coworkers had to find private coverage for their wives who stay home or work part time and they found better coverage as well. As long as there are no preexisting conditions or maternity private is the way to go!

 

[mhsjax]

I have a slightly off topic question for any Canadians out there, because I am really trying to get a grip on this. For a woman in labor, is an epidural covered by your insurance for just a normal Vag delivery.

the reason I ask is that I have a friend from another country, they have true socialized medicine. She told me that if you had a baby in her country, that under no circumstances would you be allowed an epidural, even if you offered to pay for it. It wasn't a covered procedure for this and you weren't allowed to have it. This sent me through the roof, as I had a horrific delivery and if I couldn't have an epidural I honestly don't know what I would have done.

 

[Planogirl]

Keep in mind as you all throw out examples of poor socialized medical systems that Canada and Great Britain aren't the only nations that have these systems. You just hear about Canada and Great Britain the most and there might be reasons for that. Nations have different plans and frankly I don't know enough about every nation in the world to assume that they're all bad.

 

[Duckiedee]

mhsjax - yes an epidural is covered. C-section emergency or planned - covered. NICU - covered. Induction - covered. Time in hospital - covered (you do pay OOP depending on any extra coverage you may have if you prefer a semi or private room. All meds are covered, hearing tests, vaccinations etc for baby are covered, lactation consultant or breastfeeding help from nurse covered... basically you leave the hospital with your baby - no bills.

Prenatal and aftercare are also covered... Invitro is not covered. Although once you ARE pregnant everything from that point forward is.

Two years ago I badly broke my leg, and spent 10 days in hospital, three surgeries later, LOTS of drugs LOL... including expensive anti-nausea drugs, and I only spent about $300 and that was because I asked for a semi-private room. The first two stays and surgeries plus emergency care cost over $30,000. So I got a good deal. I don't know what the third surgery cost. (Sometimes they do an audit and the patient gets the bill and you check the box yes or no to confirm you received the care that was billed... I got it for the first visits but not the last one.)

I do have private insurance that helped with the room cost ($300 is what I spent), my private insurance also covered 80% of my prescriptions once out of the hospital, 80% of chiropractic care, physio, massage therapy, Naturopathic doctor etc. My DH pays about $140/month for this extra private insurance for the three of us a month. There is a $150 deductible each year.

Sure we pay higher taxes that our US neighbours, but my guess is that our portion of income taxes that goes to healthcare does not even touch the $15,000 some of you are paying. HOLY MOLY and then still paying so much OOP.

Sure our gov't is more involved... but big business is not determining our healthcare. Considering any child in this country or adult can have major surgery without becoming bankrupt you can call me a 'socialist' all you want! LOL.

My SIL have lived in the US for about 15 years now, she has always worked and worked hard. She pays into the insurance system and pays taxes. That said, it worries me because regardless of the fact she does pay her dues, she often does not go to specialists she need to see, because they are either not covered on her plan, or the copay is so high she can't afford it.

I can't imagine budgeting for healthcare or having to make a decision about my health based on whether I can afford it or not. Sure you may wait for a specialist sometimes, but once you've had that initial visit you no longer wait, consecutive appts are as required. Emergencies are always dealt with, and you are bumped based on how sick you are.

My mom was diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago, she was diagnosed the day after she went to ER, had a CT that next day. She started chemo about two weeks later, had a couple of surgeries, took part in a experimental study... all her chemo, follow up, in hospital drugs, and even at home nursing care and pallative team were covered... she only needed to pay a small portion of some of her nausea meds she took at home.

I am thankful we are never denied care, that our care is not tied to our job, that everyone has the same options (so you never have to fear YOUR insurance company can screw you over compared to the health plan next door...), if you lose your job your care continues. If you have a deadbeat parent, the children still receive care, and it doesn't bother me that the deadbeat receive care as well... they are still human and how does denying someone care help anyone in the long run?

 

[FayeW]

I have a slightly off topic question for any Canadians out there, because I am really trying to get a grip on this. For a woman in labor, is an epidural covered by your insurance for just a normal Vag delivery.

the reason I ask is that I have a friend from another country, they have true socialized medicine. She told me that if you had a baby in her country, that under no circumstances would you be allowed an epidural, even if you offered to pay for it. It wasn't a covered procedure for this and you weren't allowed to have it. This sent me through the roof, as I had a horrific delivery and if I couldn't have an epidural I honestly don't know what I would have done.

As far as I know, any treatment you receive in hospital is covered. I don't know of any instance where a patient has had charges for anything. Epidurals are absolutely covered.

 

[FayeW]

I would hate to think that my Dh would have had to wait for his non life threatening surg to fix his knee after a soccer injury. They slapped him in surgery 3 days later. He was hurt on the weekend. They kept him doped up because of the pain. He hyperextended his knee all the up to his chest.

Also my insurance company approved a procedure done on me in one day. It wasn't life threatening, but a quality of life issue and they got approval almost immediately.

I am spoiled, I would want to wait one extra minute.

He might have had the surgery right away here, too. It depends on the severity of the injury.