Major Budget Buster - HEALTHCARE

[BoogasMom]

That's not a fair statement to make while unemployment is still around 10% (or more). Those who still have a job and haven't been affected by the Great Recession should not complain about taxes to help those less fortunate. You never know when the shoe will be on the other foot...Care to trade places with the unemployed? I didn't think so.

First, how do you know that I'm personally employed? Or my family hasn't suffered with unemployment? Having a job doesn't mean you aren't affected by what you call the "Great Recession". For example....

Is it fair when a woman works her butt off to support herself and her daughter on a single income, can barely pay the bills to keep a roof over their heads, whose daughter's medical bills are through the roof but the mother is forced to pay outrageous premiums just to provide healthcare for her sick child....while she makes a mere $12 above the Medicaid threshold??? While paying all of this, her taxes are also going to help pay A LOT (note I didn't say all) of people's healthcare expenses who don't want to work at all? Those who use the local ER as a PCP? Sorry but that is also a reality to a lot of people and it is completely unfair. Lucky to have a job? Maybe...maybe not.

She could quit her job and collect her share of government assistance and not have to worry so much about where their next meal is going to come from but she chooses to work. It just seems that there are those out here who want to contribute to society who just seem to get the shaft and those who want to take all they can get and not add anything to society at all.

The "everyone owes me mentality" is what infuriates me the most....not those who are unemployed and WANT to work. I know firsthand the threat of unemployment and I have many friends who have suffered greatly with unemployment.

 

[stich1fan]

We just received DH's Benefits package for next year to review and sign up. WE have to pay $500 more a month to keep our exact same current medical coverage in 2011. Our medical, dental and vision will now cost us over $1100 every month and this is through his company. This is crazy!!!!

Yes, we are a family of 3 and our out of pocket is $1700 a month. that is a mortgage...

 

[rebster]

99% of doctors are not greedy. I could go through a long explanation, but you haven't walked in their shoes, and they see very little of the money that you are charged. Please consider where the money really goes. A short example, you pay 7000 bucks for a simple surgery. The surgeon can do 5 of those surgeries a day. So thats 35,000 a day. They do surgeries a nice minimal 3X a week and the rest of the week is clinic (where they make money too). So thats around 100,000 bucks a week. And the General surgeon might make 250,000 a year. So...after 2.5 weeks of work they make their yearly salary, so the question should be, who is getting all the rest of the money from the other 49.5 weeks of the year? Doctors should be paid well if they are good doctors, but it isn't the doctors who are making the "killing." Just do the math. Npw 250,000 bucks is a ton of money to make, but if you cut your doctors salary by 100,000 bucks, it would hardly cut your fees at all.

Also, most regular family practice doctors don't make what surgeons make, but work the same hours. But its the same story, you have to follow the money trail. And many doctors see many patients for free. There are some bad eggs in every profession, but please don't assume your doctor is greedy.

 

[BoogasMom]

And lots of the bills for people who can't afford to pay DO get written off.

I completely agree with you on that. All a patient has to do with the docs that I work for is tell them what's going on in their lives (whether it's catastrophic illness, unemployment, disability, etc) and they instruct us to write off their balance...whether it's $50 or $5000. Not all doctors are as greedy as some of you want to believe they are.

 

[Colleen27]

As for working at walmart... I posted earlier in this thread. As I said, I've been looking for work for 4 months IN the US. I was looking for a job for six months previous to that from Japan before we moved (Dh is military). We're up against a time constraint now, my husband will be leaving the military in December. Our option is get on welfare for everything or put the kids on the state system until one or both of us can find better employment while I work at a job that is far below my education level to help us eek by in the meantime. I'm thankful that the ONLY assistance I need is healthcare for my kids honestly. I know people in much worse situations. If you think wal-mart would hire me you must not have much experience with their hiring practices.

And if they did, they'd give you few enough hours that you wouldn't qualify for the benefits offered to full time employees. You could still buy into the plan, of course, if you could afford to give them most/all of your pay to do so! How very generous, don't you think?

We have friends who tried go that route because one spouse is a contract employee who earns decent money but lacks benefits. The other tried Walmart, then McDonalds, then a little store at the mall - all places that offer benefits to full time employees, all of which hired him on with the understanding that it was for a full time position, but none of which ever had full time hours available. I don't remember now which one it was that would have allowed him to buy into their health insurance plan at a cost that was actually more than his part-time pay.

 

[brunette8706]

Actually, you hit on one of the things that most annoys me about Americans in general in that first paragraph - we think nothing of millions for schools in Indonesia or health care in sub-saharan Africa or emergency aid to Haiti, but we as a nation throw a flaming fit and cry Socialism with a fervor that brings to mind the Communism accusations of the McCarthy era should anyone suggest we provide those exact. same. things. to our own citizens.

Every developed nation in the world is socialistic to some degree for a reason - society doesn't thrive on the basic model of "every man for himself". Looking out for one's neighbors and community is one of the marks of civilization and I don't quite understand why it is so demonized here in the US.

Who are the uninsured? Well, overall 80% of workers have access to employer-sponsored health insurance. In the lowest 25% of wage earners, that number drops to just 53%. And that's not taking affordability into account; my ex works for a company that offers insurance, but the premiums are 40% of his already low wage so if he hopes to keep a roof over his head and food on the table, he's got no choice but to refuse it. And medicaid, in my state at least, is for children and the elderly or disabled. It isn't generally available to healthy adults regardless of income level, and with 15+% unemployment, the "just get a job with benefits" thinking that is responsible for that exclusion just doesn't hold.

*
Who brought up "Africa and Indonesia??? That is not what we are discussing.

There is MORE generosity and philantropy in this country than in any other in the world, THAT's A FACT!! I am growing tired of the blame USA crowd spouting off of how we don't "do enough". That is utter nonsense. DH and I pay more than the median income of this country in taxes. It is individuals who feel that we should pay more to "even the playing field" when at the end of the day, if those receiving the benefits of our hard earned income, I take serious issue with that.

To claim the rest of the world is "socialistic" is devoid of fact and carelessly stated. Let me ask you, do you have a comprehension of what the Constitution of the United States proclaimates as law? Do you understand "why" our founding fathers felt it necessary to create a document that defines a capitalist form of government with more emphasis being placed on the "individual" than say "government"???

We are all responsible for our individual success or failures in life. Lord only knows how hard it is for us as individuals to care for our own needs, how can you expect us to take care of everyone elses as well? That is beyond "unfair" and "unreasonable". We all have the same opportunities in life. What we do with them, is up to us.

 

[DawnCt1]

A lot of people assume that Medicare fraud is overbilling the government for care that is not provided. Actually a big part of Medicare fraud is failing to aggressively collect a co-pay from someone for whom that co-pay is a struggle to come up with. Failure to do so is considered prima facie evidence and you are guilty until proven innocent. Failure to collect co-pays from everyone else is considered insurance fraud.

 

[rebster]

A lot of people assume that Medicare fraud is overbilling the government for care that is not provided. Actually a big part of Medicare fraud is failing to aggressively collect a co-pay from someone for whom that co-pay is a struggle to come up with. Failure to do so is considered prima facie evidence and you are guilty until proven innocent. Failure to collect co-pays from everyone else is considered insurance fraud.

And thats part of the problem. The government is inhibiting many doctors from treating patients they would treat for free. Its very sad. Doctors have much less freedoms, and its making more problems. My uncle is a vascular surgeon who used to take no compensation for surgeries if the person couldn't afford it (of course they still had to pay the hospital fees, etc because he had not control over that), but now it is insurance fraud for him to do that, and he can't do it anymore. Isn't that great?

 

[bluehen]

*
Um, can you qualify that? What is YOUR basis of your statistical data?

Lol...You post broad generalizations and when someone calls you on it......then you want detailed justification.

 

[SaraJayne]

I beg to differ. First off, in every other civilized country there is Socialism. Is that what you want in the United States? Socialism? Give me a BREAK!For you to say "we are embarrassing backward and selfish as a nation in this area makes me cringe. We are always the first country that always gives to everyone on this planet that is in dire need. We do this for people at home too. To not know this is just ignorant. We as a nation are always, ALWAYS GIVING. We are far from "selfish"

It is said that 40 million American's do not have Health care. Who are these 40 million American's? If people do not have health care well then they should work at Walmart that PROVIDES it.

Because it's just that easy, right?

And healthcare should be a basic human right ~ unfortunately, in this country it isn't.

 

[SaraJayne]

*
Who brought up "Africa and Indonesia??? That is not what we are discussing.

There is MORE generosity and philantropy in this country than in any other in the world, THAT's A FACT!! I am growing tired of the blame USA crowd spouting off of how we don't "do enough". That is utter nonsense. DH and I pay more than the median income of this country in taxes. It is individuals who feel that we should pay more to "even the playing field" when at the end of the day, if those receiving the benefits of our hard earned income, I take serious issue with that.

To claim the rest of the world is "socialistic" is devoid of fact and carelessly stated. Let me ask you, do you have a comprehension of what the Constitution of the United States proclaimates as law? Do you understand "why" our founding fathers felt it necessary to create a document that defines a capitalist form of government with more emphasis being placed on the "individual" than say "government"???

We are all responsible for our individual success or failures in life. Lord only knows how hard it is for us as individuals to care for our own needs, how can you expect us to take care of everyone elses as well? That is beyond "unfair" and "unreasonable". We all have the same opportunities in life. What we do with them, is up to us.

Per percentage of GNI (gross national income), the US ranks 19th in the world. Sweden is number one.

Per absolute amount of dollars, the US is number one.

Most Generous Countries in 2008 as donation per citizen in 2008 (report July 2010)
The GHA July 2010 report also lists countries ranked by generosity as donation per citizen from data collected in 2008.[6]

1. Luxembourg - $114/citizen
2. Norway - $96/citizen
3. Sweden - $66/citizen
4. Ireland - $66/citizen
5. Kuwait - $33/citizen
6. Saudi Arabia - $29/citizen
7. United Arab Emirates - $25/citizen
8. United Kingdom - $17/citizen
9. United States - $14/citizen
10. Germany - $9/citizen


For other info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_charitable_countries

 

[BoogasMom]

Because it's just that easy, right?

And healthcare should be a basic human right ~ unfortunately, in this country it isn't.

Where are the examples of people who need healthcare being turned away and denied it here in the US????

 

[DawnCt1]

And thats part of the problem. The government is inhibiting many doctors from treating patients they would treat for free. Its very sad. Doctors have much less freedoms, and its making more problems. My uncle is a vascular surgeon who used to take no compensation for surgeries if the person couldn't afford it (of course they still had to pay the hospital fees, etc because he had not control over that), but now it is insurance fraud for him to do that, and he can't do it anymore. Isn't that great?

Its almost impossible to donate your time or services in this country these days. Beware when you hear the words, "I'm from the government and I am here to help".

 

[jodifla]

Where are the examples of people who need healthcare being turned away and denied it here in the US????

Seriously??? Do you ever read a newspaper?


The truth is you can get emergency healthcare in this country. If you are in imminent danger of dying, they will patch you up without you having to pay first.

But that doesn't give you access to the medicine you need afterward to survive. Or to chemo, or radiation, or any other long term care.

 

[BoogasMom]

Seriously??? Do you ever read a newspaper?


The truth is you can get emergency healthcare in this country. If you are in imminent danger of dying, they will patch you up without you having to pay first.

But that doesn't give you access to the medicine you need afterward to survive. Or to chemo, or radiation, or any other long term care.

And yet still....no links posted to any real examples. There are free clinics for those who require non-emergent healthcare in my area....are there none anywhere else in the US? And, I sat right next to someone, while I received my own chemotherapy treatment, who didn't have insurance and was receiving their own chemotherapy treatment a few years ago.....I had health insurance and the other person didn't but the other person was receiving the exact same treatment I was with no out-of-pocket expenses of their own.

 

[sookie]

yes - hospitals cannot turn you away from life saving treatment if you are in need of it. it has to be provided and then payment worked out later.

and sooooo many people are on medicaid it isn't even funny. everyone is on medicaid.

i'm paying for a LOT of other people's healthcare. they should stop complaining! lol

 

[SaraJayne]

And yet still....no links posted to any real examples. There are free clinics for those who require non-emergent healthcare in my area....are there none anywhere else in the US? And, I sat right next to someone, while I received my own chemotherapy treatment, who didn't have insurance and was receiving their own chemotherapy treatment a few years ago.....I had health insurance and the other person didn't but the other person was receiving the exact same treatment I was with no out-of-pocket expenses of their own.

Free clinics are typically few and far between. Not to mention you need money (bus fare, taxi, etc) to get there, depending on your location in relation to the clinic.

And as far as examples of people not having healthcare, pick up a newspaper or read news sites online. Examples are everywhere.

 

[SaraJayne]

And yet still....no links posted to any real examples. There are free clinics for those who require non-emergent healthcare in my area....are there none anywhere else in the US? And, I sat right next to someone, while I received my own chemotherapy treatment, who didn't have insurance and was receiving their own chemotherapy treatment a few years ago.....I had health insurance and the other person didn't but the other person was receiving the exact same treatment I was with no out-of-pocket expenses of their own.

A simple google search would help you find what you are looking for.

http://www.healthcareproblems.org/category/patient-statements

In fact, there is an entire website devoted to anectodal "data" about the healthy care problem in this country.

 

[SaraJayne]

http://www.healthcareproblems.org/health-care-statistics.htm

 

[BoogasMom]

http://www.healthcareproblems.org/health-care-statistics.htm

That is a page of statstics...not of true human story examples. I want to see where "Jane Doe" presented to the clinic with a health need and the physician refused to treat her because she had no money or insurance. Are those stories out there? If so, it may change my mind a bit.....but I'm not seeing it.