Major Budget Buster - HEALTHCARE

[jemgumby]

I didn't say that at all. I'm saying, those doctors weren't taking into account the fact that expenses for a doctor here are quite different than they are here. Malpractice laws are MUCH different in other countries. Doctors have a higher liability here- and a doctor has no influence over what the hospital charges you for things like bottled water.

I have not had to have a surgery with no insurance. With insurance, my out of pocket expenses for cancer over the last year have been about $6,000. When I compare paying that to be alive and healthy over how fast I could spend $6,000 at Disney, I can't really complain.

I don't disagree with you that there should be change- I think most people would agree that changes should be made. The disagreement is what changes should be made.

First off, let me say I am very happy to hear that you are doing well from your bout with cancer. My father beat prostate cancer a couple of years ago. I believe that good healthcare is a right that everybody deserves and I just think about how much better life would be if while battling such illnesses as cancer we didn't have the stress of worrying how we are going to pay the medical bills like they do in Canada, France and England. It is all greed, greed and greed. That is the bottom line.

 

[southern_redhead]

I have to disagree. Greed is the worst thing to happen to health care.

I have said MANY times that if my doctor's office didn't charge $120+ for a 10 minute office visit and the drug companies didn't ridiculously overcharge for medicines I wouldn't NEED insurance. Heck, I pay over $500 a month for insurance for our family and NOW it is being redone so that on top of that our copays go up $5 across the board and we now have deductibles. Yuck. What if I could take that $500 a month and spend it directly on the drs and medicines if they were just priced reasonably!

Reading posts like these make me grateful I live in Canada.

And to think everyone here complains about the $250 per year Ontario health premium that is added to your income taxes. So many people here do not realize how great they have it.

Couldn't imagine paying that amount of $$ out of our budget on health insurance.

Wow! 250 a YEAR?! That sounds good. I do have to ask, though. Don't you all have a very long wait list for receiving in hospital and specialty care? Maybe I am wrong and I certainly don't intend this as a flame, it is only what I've heard from a Canadian YEARS AGO. She said it is decided by government what treatments you may have and then wait lists are (were) 6+ months. Maybe that was only for her specific condition though?

 

[fakereadhed]

This has nothing to do with the government. My husband's organization goes through health care insurance negotiations every single year, and we pay more and receive less, every single year. Btw, I would consider free mammograms preventative care.

They have to go up to cover pre-existing conditions, as well as the usual increase in health care costs.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/09/new-consumer-protections-take-effect-premiums-will-increase-up-to-2-percent.html

You are missing my point on the preventative care. Yes we will get it. But it will be mandated that insurance companies waive copays. That will increase the premiums we pay to insurance companies, not solving the problem of high insurance premiums. It may make more people opt for preventative care and catch some things early which might have an impact on the cost of healthcare but it won't do much to put a stop to rising costs.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/14/affordable.care.event/index.html

 

[karice2]

Have you ever had to pay for an operation out of pocket? I have.....my appendix ruptured and I had to have an emergency appendectomy. We were in between insurance companies and my new insurance was due to kick in a couple of weeks. Between the surgeon's fees, anesthesiolgoist's fees and the basic hospital stay......RIDICULOUS!!!! I want my surgeon to be compensated for what he did for me but my goodness $7,000......I want to pay my hospital bill but when looking over my bill they charged me $30 for a 16 oz bottle of water.......

Seriously it is ridiculous and I am glad that the healthcare industry is now going to be regulated and finally have to answer to someone for their unethical and immoral practices......it is not right for any other profession/service to do this and certainly not right for doctors, hospitals, etc.

During Hurricane Katrina there were some gas stations that got closed down because they massively jacked up their gas prices......hhhhmmmm because they were trying to take advantage of a bad situation and be greedy......so my appendix bursts and the same thing happened to me but the hospitals, surgeons, etc. got away with it.....NOT ANYMORE AND I AM VERY HAPPY ABOUT THAT!

While I certainly can understand your displeasure with the service that you received for your appendix, I think that you may have unrealistic expectations for the service that a surgeon performs and what health care reform will do.

A surgeon is a specialty. I would not want my podiatrist removing my appendix. Surgery is not just the surgeon. It is the anesthiesologist, the nurse who is in the room, the people who sterilize instruments, electricity, and a host of other things that go into it.

For the work that I do, I am billable at about $250 per hour. I am not a surgeon. I don't have any super specialized skills that required me to be in school for 24 - 28 years of my life. But I do charge my customers for my services and for all the equipment that I use to perform my service, any support that I need is also charged to the customer and any supplies that are used in support to my customer so in theory. One hour of work from me could cost a customer approximately $500 per hour if you included my benefits. I am not a surgeon.

People have to understand that we cannot legislate a business model this is built on a flawed and counterintuitive business model. Health Insurance companies, hospitals and doctors are all separate entities that need to be addressed in different ways.

Most people don't realize that the reimbursement rates that doctors and hospitals are paid are usually modeled after Medicare reimbursements. So that being said because medicare is for the really old or the chronically ill, those payments for doctors, apparatus and treatment for chronic diseases are higher than good old mammograms.

What really needs to be done is a review of the costing models used for medical treatments. No one complains about paying car insurance premiums because we have to have it. What we need to complain about is the methodology in which insurance companies base their payments and how premiums are decided.

I am not happy with the health care model is but you know who is less happy, General Practicioners. We may be like Canada soon enough with the wait times if GP's are not adequately compensated. But most insurance companies want to cut payments to them first. A lot of doctors don't even want to do that because the payback is not what the time and energy put into school

 

[JB2K]

In Sicko there were doctors in those countries who were interviewed and were disgusted by the greed of American doctors.

Which may a bit skewed, as Sicko was a Michael Moore film -- Mr. Moore is very well-known for making "documentaries" that portray the subject matter in the most negative light, possible.

 

[brunette8706]

What are you talking about? There is no such law in the US. Why should doctors be forced to work for free? Would you work for free??

You clearly have no idea how much it costs to run a doctor's office. In addition to school loans (getting the advanced degree is expensive, not to mention intern time which is frequently unpaid), malpractice insurance (sometimes in excess of $100K per year), continuing education in order to maintain their license, and overhead (including staff, medical equipment and supplies, computers with updated software, etc), they are also scrutinized to the hilt for every penny the insurance pays them. On top of that, these doctors would like to bring home some money for themselves so that they can pay their own mortgage, feed their own kids, and pay for their own health insurance.

Healthcare IS a business. To think otherwise is absurd.

Well said! It's also funny that no one but no one knows or has even read what's in this so called Health Care Reform ticket/document. This whole thing makes me so mad. Health care isn't a right. If people don't have health insurance then maybe they should work at Walmart where they have to give their employees health care. I'm so sick of paying for everyone else's "healthcare, food, shelter, medicare, cell phones (yes you heard me right), utilities. Everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves period.

 

[jodifla]

Well said! It's also funny that no one but no one knows or has even read what's in this so called Health Care Reform ticket/document. This whole thing makes me so mad. Health care isn't a right. If people don't have health insurance then maybe they should work at Walmart where they have to give their employees health care. I'm so sick of paying for everyone else's "healthcare, food, shelter, medicare, cell phones (yes you heard me right), utilities. Everyone needs to take responsibility for themselves period.

In every other civilized country in the world, it sure is.

We are embarassingly backward and selfish as a nation in this area. And it's astonishing the hissy fit people throw when asked to step up and do the right thing.

 

[brunette8706]

In every other civilized country in the world, it sure is.

We are embarassingly backward and selfish as a nation in this area. And it's astonishing the hissy fit people throw when asked to step up and do the right thing.

I beg to differ. First off, in every other civilized country there is Socialism. Is that what you want in the United States? Socialism? Give me a BREAK!For you to say "we are embarrassing backward and selfish as a nation in this area makes me cringe. We are always the first country that always gives to everyone on this planet that is in dire need. We do this for people at home too. To not know this is just ignorant. We as a nation are always, ALWAYS GIVING. We are far from "selfish"

It is said that 40 million American's do not have Health care. Who are these 40 million American's? If people do not have health care well then they should work at Walmart that PROVIDES it. Second, I believe in LESS government. I do NOT want my healthcare being run by the government. Why, look at Social Security. It's a big joke that is losing money and will go bankrupt in the next 15 years. The government has never, EVER ran efficiently either. And further, why should middle America pay for everyone else's healthcare? It's going to be a huge burden on the Average working family. Those are the ones that are going to pay for this. It's going to cost us TRILLIONS. The government needs to stay out of the health care business period. Lastly, why is it no-one knows what is in this health care document that was just passed? Something smells fishy! If this was SUCH A GREAT idea, why is it that no one knows what's in the document? The whole thing is ludicrous.

EDITED today- Forgot to add this and this is a BIGGIE! MEDICAID! If people don't have health insurance then they should be on medicaid. So back to my original question who are these so called 40 million people??? Illegals? Why should our tax dollars go to pay FOR SOMEONE elses INSURANCE? Frankly, me and I'm sure most here on this board are paying more than your FAIR share of handouts. Now, I'm all for givng people a helping hand. But I am against, paying for Welfare each and every year, generation after generation for the same ole people. Take responsibillity!

 

[brunette8706]

Which may a bit skewed, as Sicko was a Michael Moore film -- Mr. Moore is very well-known for making "documentaries" that portray the subject matter in the most negative light, possible.

*
Exactly. Even the doctor on CNN (Doctor Sanjay sp?) totally refuted Michael Moore's documentary.

 

[fakereadhed]

In every other civilized country in the world, it sure is.

We are embarassingly backward and selfish as a nation in this area. And it's astonishing the hissy fit people throw when asked to step up and do the right thing.

I really disagree on this one. While we don't have the same healthcare for everyone, no one is turned away from the ER for inability to pay. We give care to everyone, including illegals. If you have an HMO or a type of insurance not accepted, they will tell you it won't be covered, and most choose to transfer- but you won't be turned away. If you can pay, then they let you make small, interest free payments. I am not embarrassed and think that we are a very compassionate country. I'm not saying the system couldn't be improved though.

 

[abdmom]

Wow! 250 a YEAR?! That sounds good. I do have to ask, though. Don't you all have a very long wait list for receiving in hospital and specialty care? Maybe I am wrong and I certainly don't intend this as a flame, it is only what I've heard from a Canadian YEARS AGO. She said it is decided by government what treatments you may have and then wait lists are (were) 6+ months. Maybe that was only for her specific condition though?

I lived in the U.S. for 15 years. I'm now back in Canada. A big part of my decision was healthcare costs. I used to work in healthcare in Canada. I've never experienced, nor has any member of my family, long waits for hospital or specialty care in Canada. Within a few months of moving to the U.S., I needed an antibiotic for sinusitis which I'd had many times before. I told my Dr. which antibiotic worked for it, and she said I couldn't have it because my insurance company wouldn't allow it. That would have never happened in Canada.

Late dh was a specialty surgeon who worked in both the U.S. and Canada. The waitlist for an appointment with him in the U.S. was 6 months. His patients were routinely denied coverage in the U.S. That never happened in Canada.

 

[JaymeC]

I beg to differ. First off, in every other civilized country there is Socialism. Is that what you want in the United States? Socialism?

It is said that 40 million American's do not have Health care. Who are these 40 million American's? If people do not have health care well then they should work at Walmart that PROVIDES it. Second, I believe in LESS government. I do NOT want my healthcare being run by the government. Why, look at Social Security. It's a big joke that is losing money and will go bankrupt in the next 15 years.

While I agree with you in some ways, you're taking a hard edge to this that doesn't account for individual situations. You should realize first and foremost that America is NOT a true capitalistic economic situation. Nor should we be. We have already introduced government controls and other safe guards. They're a necessary part to life anywhere to avoid people taking advantage of others. As a civilized nation we also realize that we need to take care of those who can't take care of themselves. This doesn't address what I believe is a rampant abuse of the system, but it is what it is. There are those who will remain on the system so to say their entire lives and they will do so with my blessing as they NEED that help. There are others who use the system and should not be on the government dole.

As for working at walmart... I posted earlier in this thread. As I said, I've been looking for work for 4 months IN the US. I was looking for a job for six months previous to that from Japan before we moved (Dh is military). We're up against a time constraint now, my husband will be leaving the military in December. Our option is get on welfare for everything or put the kids on the state system until one or both of us can find better employment while I work at a job that is far below my education level to help us eek by in the meantime. I'm thankful that the ONLY assistance I need is healthcare for my kids honestly. I know people in much worse situations. If you think wal-mart would hire me you must not have much experience with their hiring practices. I think I have more education than almost all their employees, which is an automatic strike out. On top of that do you think the unemployment would really be hovering around 10% if people could just walk into walmart and get a job? Do you think that people aren't looking? If you are secure in your job, be thankful for it!

As for the government being inefficient, I'm sure I have more experience with that than most after my husband being in the military for over a decade. Yes, they're inefficient. But much like with the military we need to come to some sort of compromise of dealing with their inefficiency and helping those who need the help. I wouldn't just hand the entire healthcare system over to the government and tell them to have at it, but I also don't think ignoring the skyrocketing health care costs is going to help either. A little bit of legislation (I'm all for limiting some malpractice issues for example) and the like may put us back onto much safer ground than we're currently treading.

 

[DisneyMomJen]

In every other civilized country in the world, it sure is.

We are embarassingly backward and selfish as a nation in this area. And it's astonishing the hissy fit people throw when asked to step up and do the right thing.

Are you ok to pay $500+ a month so that everyone else in the country can have insurance? This does not include any extra taxes that everyone is going to get hit with next year.

 

[DawnCt1]

Well that is interesting because doctors in Canada, France and England all make very GOOD livings above the average but not so much that it is immoral and unethical. In Sicko there were doctors in those countries who were interviewed and were disgusted by the greed of American doctors.

!

Frankly, its hard to take your opinions seriously when you reference Michael Moore about ANYTHING. He also thinks that Cuba is a workers' paradise and even Fidel Castro has said that his model is unsustainable.

 

[DawnCt1]

why is this thread and or comments turning political, I thought politics were not allowed? I am sure that some of you are not as slick as you are trying to be with the snide remarks.

I didn't realize that the words "hope and change" were proprietary and copywritten. Who knew?

 

[DawnCt1]

This is the most astounding post I think I have ever read on these boards. No, there was one other a long time ago... It was when a hair stylist insisted that we should NOT be cutting our families' hair at home when people (like her) have gone to school to earn money to do this. She insisted we should be supporting them. That one might have taken the cake...

She had me convinced. We threw away our clippers!

 

[jodifla]

I beg to differ. First off, in every other civilized country there is Socialism. Is that what you want in the United States? Socialism? Give me a BREAK!For you to say "we are embarrassing backward and selfish as a nation in this area makes me cringe. We are always the first country that always gives to everyone on this planet that is in dire need. We do this for people at home too. To not know this is just ignorant. We as a nation are always, ALWAYS GIVING. We are far from "selfish"

It is said that 40 million American's do not have Health care. Who are these 40 million American's? If people do not have health care well then they should work at Walmart that PROVIDES it. Second, I believe in LESS government. I do NOT want my healthcare being run by the government. Why, look at Social Security. It's a big joke that is losing money and will go bankrupt in the next 15 years. The government has never, EVER ran efficiently either. And further, why should middle America pay for everyone else's healthcare? It's going to be a huge burden on the Average working family. Those are the ones that are going to pay for this. It's going to cost us TRILLIONS. The government needs to stay out of the health care business period. Lastly, why is it no-one knows what is in this health care document that was just passed? Something smells fishy! If this was SUCH A GREAT idea, why is it that no one knows what's in the document? The whole thing is ludicrous.

EDITED today- Forgot to add this and this is a BIGGIE! MEDICAID! If people don't have health insurance then they should be on medicaid. So back to my original question who are these so called 40 million people??? Illegals? Why should our tax dollars go to pay FOR SOMEONE elses INSURANCE? Frankly, me and I'm sure most here on this board are paying more than your FAIR share of handouts. Now, I'm all for givng people a helping hand. But I am against, paying for Welfare each and every year, generation after generation for the same ole people. Take responsibillity!

Medicaid is VERY difficult to get, other than for children.

Also, you ask, WHO are these 40 million people without insurance? Many of them are people with pre-existing conditions whom NO ONE WILL INSURE. I love how people continually gloss over that.

Others are those who got sick, then lost their jobs because they were sick, and now can't find a job because they are STILL sick, or because the economy is terrible, etc.

Still others make minimum wage and can't afford $12,000 to $15,000 in coverage.

 

[brunette8706]

Medicaid is VERY difficult to get, other than for children.

Also, you ask, WHO are these 40 million people without insurance? Many of them are people with pre-existing conditions whom NO ONE WILL INSURE. I love how people continually gloss over that.
Others are those who got sick, then lost their jobs because they were sick, and now can't find a job because they are STILL sick, or because the economy is terrible, etc.

Still others make minimum wage and can't afford $12,000 to $15,000 in coverage.

*
Um, can you qualify that? What is YOUR basis of your statistical data?

 

[Colleen27]

By the time they pay student loans, malpractice insurance, and the cost of running a practice, most doctors aren't making a killing anymore. And why shouldn't they make more than the average career after all the work they put in to get there? I can't speak to insurance companies, I haven't looked at their balance sheets lately.

The insurance companies are a big part of that issue, though. The cost and complexity of running a practice has increased exponentially as each insurance company a doctor accepts means more patients, but also a whole new set of billing and coding procedures, claim submission processes, negotiated fee rates, etc. A lot of the business expense of practicing medicine is directly related to the additional layer of complexity that insurance adds to the mix, and that is every bit as much an essential piece of lowering health care rates as tort reform.

 

[Colleen27]

I beg to differ. First off, in every other civilized country there is Socialism. Is that what you want in the United States? Socialism? Give me a BREAK!For you to say "we are embarrassing backward and selfish as a nation in this area makes me cringe. We are always the first country that always gives to everyone on this planet that is in dire need. We do this for people at home too. To not know this is just ignorant. We as a nation are always, ALWAYS GIVING. We are far from "selfish"

It is said that 40 million American's do not have Health care. Who are these 40 million American's? If people do not have health care well then they should work at Walmart that PROVIDES it. Second, I believe in LESS government. I do NOT want my healthcare being run by the government. Why, look at Social Security. It's a big joke that is losing money and will go bankrupt in the next 15 years. The government has never, EVER ran efficiently either. And further, why should middle America pay for everyone else's healthcare? It's going to be a huge burden on the Average working family. Those are the ones that are going to pay for this. It's going to cost us TRILLIONS. The government needs to stay out of the health care business period. Lastly, why is it no-one knows what is in this health care document that was just passed? Something smells fishy! If this was SUCH A GREAT idea, why is it that no one knows what's in the document? The whole thing is ludicrous.

EDITED today- Forgot to add this and this is a BIGGIE! MEDICAID! If people don't have health insurance then they should be on medicaid. So back to my original question who are these so called 40 million people??? Illegals? Why should our tax dollars go to pay FOR SOMEONE elses INSURANCE? Frankly, me and I'm sure most here on this board are paying more than your FAIR share of handouts. Now, I'm all for givng people a helping hand. But I am against, paying for Welfare each and every year, generation after generation for the same ole people. Take responsibillity!

Actually, you hit on one of the things that most annoys me about Americans in general in that first paragraph - we think nothing of millions for schools in Indonesia or health care in sub-saharan Africa or emergency aid to Haiti, but we as a nation throw a flaming fit and cry Socialism with a fervor that brings to mind the Communism accusations of the McCarthy era should anyone suggest we provide those exact. same. things. to our own citizens.

Every developed nation in the world is socialistic to some degree for a reason - society doesn't thrive on the basic model of "every man for himself". Looking out for one's neighbors and community is one of the marks of civilization and I don't quite understand why it is so demonized here in the US.

Who are the uninsured? Well, overall 80% of workers have access to employer-sponsored health insurance. In the lowest 25% of wage earners, that number drops to just 53%. And that's not taking affordability into account; my ex works for a company that offers insurance, but the premiums are 40% of his already low wage so if he hopes to keep a roof over his head and food on the table, he's got no choice but to refuse it. And medicaid, in my state at least, is for children and the elderly or disabled. It isn't generally available to healthy adults regardless of income level, and with 15+% unemployment, the "just get a job with benefits" thinking that is responsible for that exclusion just doesn't hold.