Maintenance costs

[roy of tallahassee]

I think it is becoming more difficult to accept the increases in our fees when our properties are subject to more and more rental families who treat the place like a hotel and not their own like most of us do. Then after those visits our fees get raised due to more repairs that our needed!

That continues to be a problem for us!

Thoughts?

 

[disney_bob]

Well, I'm not sure your claim that "rental families" are different from actual members holds water.

In any case, that is part of the reason behind the fees. These properties are operated as hotels and Disney/DVC knows that, in addition to normal wear/tear, there are plenty of people who don't treat things very well (whether their own things or someone else's).

 

[vicki_c]

This has been brought up in the past. Personally, I don't believe that renters are necessarily any worse in how they treat the resort than DVC owners, as a whole.

 

[CarolMN]

I don't share your assumption that "rental families" damage the rooms more than member families.

Most of the "rental families" are there because members are either renting reservations to them or trading out of the system (to cruise or use other non-DVC options).

Between 1999 & 2014, BWV fees have increased about 49%. Inflation has increased 37%. I doubt that "rental families" are the reason for the increase above inflation. My thoughts are that for at least the BWV, the increase is due to taxes,and the cost of labor (insurance). YMMV.

 

[wdrl]

There are other factors that are influencing the rise in maintenance fees. In 2015, more than half of the percentage increase in BLT's maintenance fees is attributable to increased ad valorem taxes. I cannot see how you can blame renters for increases in the tax rate for the resort.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Every room in the DVC system is subject ot cash guests as well, and most of them (rooms) probably have a number of cash guests every year (Just guessing here.).

I learned a long time ago that most people don't treat things they own like I do. In accepting what is essentially a joint-ownership proposition, it's just par for the course. I don't like it, but it is the way it is, IMO.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

As a sidebar here, personally, I think part of the problem is the management Disney does in the hotels. The problem is that the hotels are managed "Disney-like." By that I mean, I think a guest would basically have to set bond fires in the rooms to ever have any sort of financial penalty levied.

If more credit cards were levied damage assessments when the damage was found, a lot of the destruction would cease, but since most people seem to know that Disney wouldn't dare do it, they don't care. Of course, the heart of the problem is that people just don't seem to care much anymore anyway, but that's an entirely separate discussion altogether.

When I leave a room, it's usually in better shape than it was when I got there. I suspect that's the case with most of us here, though. Unfortunately, most owners aren't here on the DIS.

 

[DebbieB]

Every room in the DVC system is subject ot cash guests as well, and most of them (rooms) probably have a number of cash guests every year (Just guessing here.).

I learned a long time ago that most people don't treat things they own like I do. In accepting what is essentially a joint-ownership proposition, it's just par for the course. I don't like it, but it is the way it is, IMO.

I don't think a lot of members think of the rooms as "owners", not like they think of their home ownership.

As a sidebar here, personally, I think part of the problem is the management Disney does in the hotels. The problem is that the hotels are managed "Disney-like." By that I mean, I think a guest would basically have to set bond fires in the rooms to ever have any sort of financial penalty levied.

If more credit cards were levied damage assessments when the damage was found, a lot of the destruction would cease, but since most people seem to know that Disney wouldn't dare do it, they don't care. Of course, the heart of the problem is that people just don't seem to care much anymore anyway, but that's an entirely separate discussion altogether.

When I leave a room, it's usually in better shape than it was when I got there. I suspect that's the case with most of us here, though. Unfortunately, most owners aren't here on the DIS.

I agree, charges should be made for deliberate damage.

 

[CMOORE185]

There was a thread once on wanting a resort or rooms set aside to allow animals. Could you imagine the wear and tear it that were allowed? I would sell immediately if a resort I owned allowed anything other then service animals.

 

[Brian Noble]

Between 1999 & 2014, BWV fees have increased about 49%. Inflation has increased 37%. I doubt that "rental families" are the reason for the increase above inflation. My thoughts are that for at least the BWV, the increase is due to taxes,and the cost of labor (insurance). YMMV.

I think that's about right---and I suspect most of it is labor costs. Labor intensive businesses tend to have costs rise faster than inflation thanks to the Baumol Effect, and a healthy chunk of Dues is labor---housekeeping, front desk, security, etc.

 

[hakepb]

I think owners are more likely to think "I spent $20,000 for this trip" because they spent that much for the points. "So, obviously the mouse already has enough of my money to repair any damages"

A renter is only thinking about this specific stay.

 

[KingRichard]

I seen housekeeping push cart out of elevator and smash a hole in the wall at BLT.

I'm sure you can guess who paid for that.

Not them!

 

[drusba]

Blaming renters or even unsavory owners for large dues increasees because they are trashing or destroying the rooms seems to be making an assumption that I am not even sure is correct. Are the rooms really being mistreated by either renters or owners? I agree there are times when the rooms look really worn but a lot of that has to do with the longer period between refurbishments than the hotel rooms. In 18 years I have been going, I have often found something wrong with the room but i never experienced a problem where I could say it is becasue someone before me harmed the room to any significant extent. Yes, you might see a stain or a bad scratch here and there but that can happen with any owner, even the most careful, particularly if you have any children (like most, until I had some of those I often thought parents utterly failed to properly supervise and control their children; after having some, I was amazed at how much all those other parents had improved in such a short period of time).

The kind of things I have found and reported are usually housekeeping and engineering issues not likely due to the fault of a prior occupant except to the extent he just failed to report the issue before leaving. Often i have found light bulbs out, and at different times, a refrigerator that no longer worked, a sink that was very slow to drain, a loose toilet seat, a faucet that was dripping, an air conditioning unit that made a very loud noise, a washer or dryer that no longer worked properly, an unclean room because housekeeping had obviously failed to clean it after the prior resident left. What I never saw was anything to which I could point to and say that a prior occupant must have been a real pig because anything I saw was likely just the normal wear and tear you are going to get between the long period from one refurbishment to another even if all your prior occupants were attentive to caring for the room. I assume mine is probably the experience of most. Even when I have read many of the problems reported by others, it is seldom something you can point to and say it was because of a rotten, prior tenant.

Maybe I am off base and there are really is a high percentage of room problems caused by renters or owners doing harm to the room but to date I have personally not really seen evidence for that.

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

Would I like to pay less for dues? Sure. But to be honest, the cost increases on our three contracts since we first purchased in 2006 have been fairly consistent with what we expected. I agree with most who have replied. I think only a small percentage of the increases can be tracked back to breakage or abnormal wear & tear. For our BLT contract, the cost associated with abnormal furniture damages can be traced back to a poor decision on Disney's part than it can to bad-acting guests. In general, I also don't think dues-paying members are necessarily more careful in how they treat the rooms than anyone else.

 

[Dean]

I think it is becoming more difficult to accept the increases in our fees when our properties are subject to more and more rental families who treat the place like a hotel and not their own like most of us do. Then after those visits our fees get raised due to more repairs that our needed! That continues to be a problem for us! Thoughts?

I don't buy the idea that renters treat the place any worse than members. There is no evidence to suggest that and IMO, there isn't any intellectual evidence to suggest it is different either. Put another way, I don't think OWNERS treat it even better for timeshares except for fixed week, fixed unit situation. Even for the largest points owner, DVC is but a rental car. I have discussed this issue with several Marriott GM's and non felt that rental vs owner was an issue. The only group they could point to was a spring break type. DVC dues have had reasonable increases without any special assessments. Put another way, the specifics of this issue aren't any different than when you bought in.

 

[lodge]

I seen housekeeping push cart out of elevator and smash a hole in the wall at BLT.

I'm sure you can guess who paid for that.

Not them!

I've watched a baggage handler drive her tug into the side of an aircraft then not report it. Like I'm going to get onto that plane with structural damage!

I own but rent too as I often run short on points. I don't think it's the focus of renters but the values taught to a generation who don't think beyond themselves.

 

[crisi]

I don't think a lot of members think of the rooms as "owners", not like they think of their home ownership.

And where they do think of themselves as owners, it often doesn't make the situation better. Stringing Christmas lights using adhesive....hanging Happy Birthday signage in the room.

 

[disney junky]

And where they do think of themselves as owners, it often doesn't make the situation better. Stringing Christmas lights using adhesive....hanging Happy Birthday signage in the room.

Unless I were staying in the same exact room trip after trip, I can't see it in the same light as my home. I can't see us decorating for any occasion, but that's just me. If adhesive is used and damages the walls, it should be charged to the party involved. No questions asked.

 

[Disney On The Bayou]

I seen housekeeping push cart out of elevator and smash a hole in the wall at BLT. I'm sure you can guess who paid for that. Not them!

Yes! This happens! Mouse keeping staff are horrible in their care for our properties. Obviously not all, but I've heard them clean a nearby villa recently and they almost busted the wall down while cleaning

 

[smadath]

I've watched a baggage handler drive her tug into the side of an aircraft then not report it. Like I'm going to get onto that plane with structural damage!

I'm such an awesome flyer to start with, I would have run screaming back to my car. (only a slight exaggeration)