Magical ? Not so much.

[Dis703]

I don't know of any theme park anywhere in the world where you are gurenteed not to wait less than 30 minutes. All theme park rides have long waits, its a fact of life. Although at Universal and Six Flags and the Merlin parks in the UK you can pay extra to skip the lines (usually in our local park in England its £20 ($30) to skip the wait on four attractions).

At Sesame Place last month the wait for the ferris wheel was at least an hour. They do have a fastpass-like program that you can pay for ($15 per person), but it only gets you on certain rides and you can only use the "FP" once per ride. There wasn't one for the ferris wheel of course and that's what my kids wanted to ride. I gave up over 30 minutes into the wait.

 

[whiporee]

I totally agree, but I still think there is a physical limitation to how many people the MK can hold in terms of the limits of the actual park and I think they are pushing that to the point that it isn't comfortable or "magical" many days now. Add in the scooter and stroller traffic (again not blaming anyone who uses one) and the effective amount of people who can physically be on the paths is reduced further.

I agree with you, but capping that number would be very hard. There are 30,000 hotel rooms in the resort -- that translates to about 100,000 people. if 40 percent of them go to the MK on any given day, that's 40,000 people through the gates, what used to be the average daily attendance. They'd have to limit the off-site visitors dramatically in order to keep the crowds light.

That's why i'm in favor of having a few days a week that is resort-only. Hell, if it were my company, I'd bite the bullet, make the whole thing resort only and jack up ticket prices. .. .

But it's not and they won't, so I'll just say that reducing the numbers of people through the gates isn't really feasible from a corporate standpoint. They have an obligation to make as much as they can, and that means capping attendance at what they and the firemarshalls say is max attendance. Anything lower than the they'll let through the gates.

 

[leebee]

It may officially start next week, but for many of us, it begins after Thanksgiving and we celebrate them there.

maybe the "official" holiday season begins on December 18, but the crowds thicken by the week once Thanksgiving is past, with guests who want to see the holiday trappings without dealing with the biggest crowds (which will still be the week between Christmas and New Years.) This year is complicated by the end of the Osborne lights. I know a lot of persons who are making a short trip just to see them. I booked mine before I knew they were closing, it would have been hard to do the same booking after that news was released.

When we were in Disney this year (Nov. 7-12), I asked about it being the "holiday" season. A CM explained that it was officially the Christmas season at MK and HS because they had already started their Christmas exhibits (MVMCP and Osborne Lights), but that it wouldn't officially be Christmas at Epcot until they'd finished up with the Food and Wine Festival. She said she didn't know HOW AK gauges it as they don't have any "special" Christmas exhibits or anything. To me, this sounds like there really isn't any "official" holiday season at WDW, but rather it's set on a park-by-park basis.

 

[MakiraMarlena]

I think some consider "official" holiday season to be when holiday pricing starts at the resorts. December 18 this year. That is when they start expecting the biggest crowds.

 

[JaimeK]

At Sesame Place last month the wait for the ferris wheel was at least an hour. They do have a fastpass-like program that you can pay for ($15 per person), but it only gets you on certain rides and you can only use the "FP" once per ride. There wasn't one for the ferris wheel of course and that's what my kids wanted to ride. I gave up over 30 minutes into the wait.

I was thinking, wait Sesame Place doesn't have a ferris wheel... but we didn't go this year so I checked the site and I guess it's super new. And tiny -- a six basket ferris wheel with an hour wait - YIKES! All the rides there load SO SLOWLY. And then they are all awful. My favorite thing about DW is that the "kiddie" rides are fun/entertaining for the adults too.

 

[mshanson3121]

Seems to me the obvious solution is to raise the ticket prices. If the issue is the parks are too crowded, then raise the prices by $25 a day, problem solved.

Raising prices will do nothing. The last several years have already proven that. Ticket prices have raised numerous times, and yet crowds are increasing. And if they did do a sudden large increase in price, to the point that might affect crowd levels, the negative publicity would very bad. Just look at the backlash over tiered pricing.

 

[BK2014]

I agree with you, but capping that number would be very hard. There are 30,000 hotel rooms in the resort -- that translates to about 100,000 people. if 40 percent of them go to the MK on any given day, that's 40,000 people through the gates, what used to be the average daily attendance. They'd have to limit the off-site visitors dramatically in order to keep the crowds light.

Expanding on this thought . . . they should not only limit the number of off-site visitors, but also make their tickets one park per day only with the requirement that they buy a date specific/park specific ticket so the crowd levels at each park can be accurately capped. Then the on-site guests would be dispersed among the parks, while the limit on the number of off-site guests would keep the crowds at each park more reasonable. Granted this would likely result in price increases across the board on rooms, tickets, food and merchandise. But why should those of us who can afford it care about those who can't and still want to go to WDW?

 

[WIcruizer]

Raising prices will do nothing. The last several years have already proven that. Ticket prices have raised numerous times, and yet crowds are increasing. And if they did do a sudden large increase in price, to the point that might affect crowd levels, the negative publicity would very bad. Just look at the backlash over tiered pricing.

What backlash? Everyone is saying the parks are too crowded, so people may whine about higher process, but they're still attending at record numbers.

Some people are never happy. Crowds are too big, process are too high, wait times too long, not enough new attractions, etc., etc. It doesn't add up. If it's that bad, the parks wouldn't be packed. So jack up the prices again, it's the only way crowd levels will go down.

 

[GreatLakes]

Seems to me the obvious solution is to raise the ticket prices. If the issue is the parks are too crowded, then raise the prices by $25 a day, problem solved.

I think the changes to the APs this year are an attempt at that. Raise the prices on a specific category of guests for specific times of the year. I interpreted the changes in cost and blackout dates, introduced through the increased levels of AP, as an attempt to move less profitable guests out of the park on the busiest days and to less busy days.

The reality is turning away guests before the park is at capacity, and capacity based on fire codes not comfort, is not a good business decision. What Disney should be aiming to do is even out their attendance curve so there are no longer any low crowd times. Having large fluctuations in the crowd level is not ideal from an operational standpoint.

 

[mshanson3121]

What backlash?

It was on several news shows when it broke they were considering it. Cripes Today show and others were all talking about it, and the feedback was very negative. Articles on the internet, comments were extremely negative.

 

[3DisneyFanz]

I totally agree, but I still think there is a physical limitation to how many people the MK can hold in terms of the limits of the actual park and I think they are pushing that to the point that it isn't comfortable or "magical" many days now. Add in the scooter and stroller traffic (again not blaming anyone who uses one) and the effective amount of people who can physically be on the paths is reduced further.

Space is definitely an issue but it's compounded by the fact so many people are squeezing into the same spaces because it's where hot ticket items are. Its compounded by the fact that there are so many people just wandering around waiting for FP times and avoiding other things because the SB lines are crazy for other things.

There are lots of things there though that really are wastes of space though. Tomorrowland could use a lot of help as there are two good sized show buildings that never operate at capacity. There is space they just chose to try and force people into the existing space rather than actually making them appealing.

 

[mshanson3121]

As far as people complaining... I think most of the people complaining on here are regulars that have gone several times before and remember when it wasn't so crowded. I don't think your average Joe first time visitor is actually complaining about crowds that much. Especially not if they've been to other theme parks, which also can get very crowded. I think the biggest valid complaint however, is price. While, I still say that it's not that far off when compared to other events/parks when you compare what they offer, it is still expensive, and a large price increase basically will price out even more people, more than those who have already been priced out. Basically - Disney will be the playground for the rich and those who feel entitled. Which is the complete opposite of what it was created for. If some of these people who feel they're entitled to a crowd-free experience want it - then they should pay dearly for it. Perhaps Disney could offer certain times of year where they do offer a special pass with limited attendance, and jack THOSE ticket prices up.

 

[Huggups]

On the cleanliness front, I've heard Pete on DU always rant about how the bathrooms are so dirty. Well, on our last 2 trips to WDW I found all the bathrooms to be very clean. One trip was in Dec 2013 and the other was this past June. I noticed many times running into a CM cleaning the stalls. I never had an issue with the bathrooms myself. As far as Park Hopper goes, it's almost necessary now with the park crowds being what they are, particularly at MK. We went early June this year and the crowd levels were very high.

 

[Magpie]

What Disney should be aiming to do is even out their attendance curve so there are no longer any low crowd times. Having large fluctuations in the crowd level is not ideal from an operational standpoint.

Isn't that exactly what's happening?

I can't count the number of times I've seen people on these boards complain that there's "no such thing as a low crowd time at Disney any more". And getting upset that they showed up during historically low times (such as the first week of December or mid-January), only to find it quite busy with people enjoying free dining, discounted rooms, tour groups or special events.

(Edited to add: My favourite recurring comment is, "Why are there so many children in the parks? Why aren't they in school?" Disney's quest to eliminate low crowd periods has been helped immensely by many schools switching to year round calendars with flexible scheduling, as well as the foreign market whose kids have different school calendars/more lenient absence policies, and the growing popularity of homeschooling/private schooling.)

 

[Dis703]

I was thinking, wait Sesame Place doesn't have a ferris wheel... but we didn't go this year so I checked the site and I guess it's super new. And tiny -- a six basket ferris wheel with an hour wait - YIKES! All the rides there load SO SLOWLY. And then they are all awful. My favorite thing about DW is that the "kiddie" rides are fun/entertaining for the adults too.

Yes, it's super tiny. Funny thing is we didn't realize while we were in line, a family from my twin's school was there ahead of us. And she said after the super slow loading process that tiny thing only goes around 1 full circle and then you get off again! One hour wait for a less than 1 minute ride. Yikes! I agree Disney kiddie rides are so much more fun and entertaining. And thankfully for the adults as well because I can't stomach most of the "big" rides.

 

[GreatLakes]

Isn't that exactly what's happening?

I can't count the number of times I've seen people on these boards complain that there's "no such thing as a low crowd time at Disney any more". And getting upset that they showed up during historically low times (such as the first week of December or mid-January), only to find it quite busy with people enjoying free dining, discounted rooms, tour groups or special events.

(Edited to add: My favourite recurring comment is, "Why are there so many children in the parks? Why aren't they in school?" Disney's quest to eliminate low crowd periods has been helped immensely by many schools switching to year round calendars with flexible scheduling, as well as the foreign market whose kids have different school calendars/more lenient absence policies, and the growing popularity of homeschooling/private schooling.)

Yes, I believe that is exactly what Disney is doing and they are off to a good start. They have been attempting it for a while, there is a reason special events are held when they are held, but they have really upped their effort over the last few years.

I've said before that the guests really shouldn't be able to perceive the difference between the crowd levels on a 9 day and 2 day. The difference between the 20th and 90th percentile should be so narrow it feels the same. There will be outliers on both ends for various reasons but slow days at the parks

It was on several news shows when it broke they were considering it. Cripes Today show and others were all talking about it, and the feedback was very negative. Articles on the internet, comments were extremely negative.

That isn't backlash, that is whining and complaining. Every time people whine and complain about a change the attendance and revenue of the parks goes up. That is not backlash. If a price increase lowered demand beyond what was expected that would be backlash.

 

[Dis703]

On the cleanliness front, I've heard Pete on DU always rant about how the bathrooms are so dirty. Well, on our last 2 trips to WDW I found all the bathrooms to be very clean. One trip was in Dec 2013 and the other was this past June. I noticed many times running into a CM cleaning the stalls. I never had an issue with the bathrooms myself. As far as Park Hopper goes, it's almost necessary now with the park crowds being what they are, particularly at MK. We went early June this year and the crowd levels were very high.

I have major OCD in regards to public bathrooms. I pretty much only use them on vacation and times when I absolutely positively have no choice. Disney bathrooms have always been some of the cleanest bathrooms I've ever seen and I'm so thankful for that. Occasionally, I've seen one that was too messy for me to use, but not enough for me to say Disney bathrooms are dirty. It's definitely been the rare occurrence in my experience.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Space is definitely an issue but it's compounded by the fact so many people are squeezing into the same spaces because it's where hot ticket items are. Its compounded by the fact that there are so many people just wandering around waiting for FP times and avoiding other things because the SB lines are crazy for other things.

There are lots of things there though that really are wastes of space though. Tomorrowland could use a lot of help as there are two good sized show buildings that never operate at capacity. There is space they just chose to try and force people into the existing space rather than actually making them appealing.

Yeah, I agree. I would still welcome a cap would to ease congestion. I just don't think MK was built for that much traffic.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I agree with you, but capping that number would be very hard. There are 30,000 hotel rooms in the resort -- that translates to about 100,000 people. if 40 percent of them go to the MK on any given day, that's 40,000 people through the gates, what used to be the average daily attendance. They'd have to limit the off-site visitors dramatically in order to keep the crowds light.

That's why i'm in favor of having a few days a week that is resort-only. Hell, if it were my company, I'd bite the bullet, make the whole thing resort only and jack up ticket prices. .. .

But it's not and they won't, so I'll just say that reducing the numbers of people through the gates isn't really feasible from a corporate standpoint. They have an obligation to make as much as they can, and that means capping attendance at what they and the firemarshalls say is max attendance. Anything lower than the they'll let through the gates.

I don't disagree

I guess my first point was that so much of what we talk about on here all goes back to the crowds.

 

[JaimeK]

So some people on here are saying "raise the prices" and others "cap the attendance" -- isn't that exactly the hard party tickets? Yet people still complain about those being too crowded as well.