Lowe's delivery customer requests "no black delivery crew" - manager fired

[bumbershoot]

I think of my MIL and her full situation and it just makes me wonder...

MIL is Korean. She grew up in occupied Korea. She can speak Japanese because she was forced to. Her father died due to problems after he was in a concentration camp for hiding Korean language books.

She would have a VERY hard time with a Japanese man or woman coming into her home. Yes, even now. Yes, it was a long long time ago. I wasn't there. She won't talk about what happened.

She also kinda hates Caucasians, even though she married one. She hates them/us because she thinks they will all behave like he did. Her daughter married a white guy and he was a bank-robbing, felon, heroin user. This did not solidify her love for people like me. (she has a hard time separating overall race from individual behavior...she had a 5th grade education and there's just nothing to be done about it anymore) She was really freaked out by DH marrying me. Took a LONG time to see that I'm a decent person. (I'm now her main caregiver) She kind of has her reasons for some things.

So I wonder if this lady is just a "witch", or if there's something deep in her psyche besides just "I don't like these people". I could wonder all day about the "why" but that way madness lies. I just wonder. It IS unusual to be obvious about it. So I wonder what is in her heart and mind to do that. Musta been pretty strong.


There's more that I'll share about MIL in a minute.

I do agree with the managers not sending the black employee to a household that specifically requests "No Black" as this could possibly put said employee in a dangerous situation.

Excellent point.

I wonder if that witch would request a new doctor if the one treating her was black.

Many people do.

My MIL really really dislikes it when she has an Indian doctor at the hospital. It's not because she doesn't like or trust them. It's because she, with her OWN accent and comprehension of English, doesn't UNDERSTAND the Indian accent much of the time. It's sometimes literally impossible for her to understand what they are saying to her. She needed a translator* with this one doctor, who also thought she was god and was VERY angry that we actually would say "we didn't catch that, can you repeat it?". I was the translator, obviously.

It was not safe to have a fast-talking, hates-to-repeat-herself, doctor with a VERY strong accent as the only one in the room talking to someone who isn't fluent in English to begin with. And the doctor didn't understand my MIL! It was ridiculous. (this doctor angered so many other patients that it took the doctor until around 7pm to finally get to my MIL's room on MIL's discharge day, apologizing and groveling for what the other doctor had done and said) She recently had an experience with another Indian doctor at the hospital who spoke very very quickly and used NO simple words, all medical words, and refused to call me. When I got there it took another hour, when he thought he had things taken care of because he thought her silence meant something it didn't, for me to find out what he had said to her and relay it to her, because she didn't understand a single word he said, and just wanted to go home.

*(they always offer her a Korean/English translator, but she doesn't speak actual Korean anymore...family calls it Konglish, what she speaks...the Korean translators they've insisted on don't help, because they don't speak the same language)

Sometimes refusing a certain group isn't out of racism ("the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."), but for other reasons.

The manager should have probably asked a superior and gotten a CYA instruction on what to do, but didn't realize his job was on the line.

YES.

Wait a minute. PC? Calling out a manager for being willing to cave in to a customer's overtly racist demand is PC? I don't think so.

So... was it "racist"? Racism involves a feeling of being superior. Do we KNOW that this lady felt superior?

I will tell you, it's not fun to help someone who doesn't want you to be there. It's unbelievable that I'm MIL's caregiver. You do not know how much she disliked me, starting with because I was white and would therefore rob a bank, start using heroin, have multiple affairs over the decades, and beat her (just like her husband and her daughter's husband) and how she wasn't quiet about it. Purposely being there for her even if she doesn't want me there (and at any point she might have a stroke and just see me as that white woman again) is NOT something I want to do.

So honestly? I think they just should have gone with her request. It wouldn't have actually harmed anyone. Maybe they can tack on a "deliveryperson request fee" that's the amount of the unwanted deliveryperson's wage for that period of time.

 

[Minniesgal]

I'm shocked by my own ignorance I actually didn't realise people still did things like this in this day and age.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I think of my MIL and her full situation and it just makes me wonder...

MIL is Korean. She grew up in occupied Korea. She can speak Japanese because she was forced to. Her father died due to problems after he was in a concentration camp for hiding Korean language books.

She would have a VERY hard time with a Japanese man or woman coming into her home. Yes, even now. Yes, it was a long long time ago. I wasn't there. She won't talk about what happened.

She also kinda hates Caucasians, even though she married one. She hates them/us because she thinks they will all behave like he did. Her daughter married a white guy and he was a bank-robbing, felon, heroin user. This did not solidify her love for people like me. (she has a hard time separating overall race from individual behavior...she had a 5th grade education and there's just nothing to be done about it anymore) She was really freaked out by DH marrying me. Took a LONG time to see that I'm a decent person. (I'm now her main caregiver) She kind of has her reasons for some things.

So I wonder if this lady is just a "witch", or if there's something deep in her psyche besides just "I don't like these people". I could wonder all day about the "why" but that way madness lies. I just wonder. It IS unusual to be obvious about it. So I wonder what is in her heart and mind to do that. Musta been pretty strong.


There's more that I'll share about MIL in a minute.



Excellent point.




Many people do.

My MIL really really dislikes it when she has an Indian doctor at the hospital. It's not because she doesn't like or trust them. It's because she, with her OWN accent and comprehension of English, doesn't UNDERSTAND the Indian accent much of the time. It's sometimes literally impossible for her to understand what they are saying to her. She needed a translator* with this one doctor, who also thought she was god and was VERY angry that we actually would say "we didn't catch that, can you repeat it?". I was the translator, obviously.

It was not safe to have a fast-talking, hates-to-repeat-herself, doctor with a VERY strong accent as the only one in the room talking to someone who isn't fluent in English to begin with. And the doctor didn't understand my MIL! It was ridiculous. (this doctor angered so many other patients that it took the doctor until around 7pm to finally get to my MIL's room on MIL's discharge day, apologizing and groveling for what the other doctor had done and said) She recently had an experience with another Indian doctor at the hospital who spoke very very quickly and used NO simple words, all medical words, and refused to call me. When I got there it took another hour, when he thought he had things taken care of because he thought her silence meant something it didn't, for me to find out what he had said to her and relay it to her, because she didn't understand a single word he said, and just wanted to go home.

*(they always offer her a Korean/English translator, but she doesn't speak actual Korean anymore...family calls it Konglish, what she speaks...the Korean translators they've insisted on don't help, because they don't speak the same language)

Sometimes refusing a certain group isn't out of racism ("the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."), but for other reasons.




YES.




So... was it "racist"? Racism involves a feeling of being superior. Do we KNOW that this lady felt superior?

I will tell you, it's not fun to help someone who doesn't want you to be there. It's unbelievable that I'm MIL's caregiver. You do not know how much she disliked me, starting with because I was white and would therefore rob a bank, start using heroin, have multiple affairs over the decades, and beat her (just like her husband and her daughter's husband) and how she wasn't quiet about it. Purposely being there for her even if she doesn't want me there (and at any point she might have a stroke and just see me as that white woman again) is NOT something I want to do.

So honestly? I think they just should have gone with her request. It wouldn't have actually harmed anyone. Maybe they can tack on a "deliveryperson request fee" that's the amount of the unwanted deliveryperson's wage for that period of time.

You are amazing for taking care of family in such a difficult situation! And I would absolutely support her need for as-clear-as-possible communication with a doctor, even if that means requesting someone else (explaining honestly that it is a language barrier and no judgement on anyone's skills).

However, hating all white people for what some white people did is just as racist as putting someone in a concentration camp because he is Korean. You say she has only a 5th grade education, but my 5th grade students certainly understand that. So I'm not willing to give the woman in the article a pass for mistreating the black delivery man either. - If we as a society want racism to end, we as individuals have to get past first impressions and see the people inside.

But I definitely agree with you that the manager may have been (quite rightly) considering his employees safety, and also should have consulted his own supervisor before making a decision.

And again, I admire your patience immensely! It must have taken so much to get to this point, and so much every day to deal with the little things now. I think caring for elderly family members is one of the hardest jobs around!

 

[Disney Doll]

I have a lot of experience with this. After almost 20 years of nursing I can tell you that I have seen people refuse healthcare workers and physicians based on their race and or gender. I have seen this happen equally with both black and white people, males and females. It is very sad and happens more often than you think.

Me too. And frankly, the times I've been in charge of a unit and someone has made that request I have honored it.

Not because I agree with the person and their prejudices.

Not because I'm overly PC.

Putting one of MY colleagues into a situation that I know is going to end badly didn't seem fair to my colleague. If you have someone in this day and age that is so racist and classless that they would make this request out loud, then there is no level to which they won't sink. That person is going to find every fault with my colleague based on nothing more than their own prejudices and I wouldn't knowingly put my colleague into that position.

 

[Disney Doll]

Seems like a few folks are twisting themselves into pretzels attempting to defend the woman's racially prejudistic behavior.

Not at all. The woman's request is ridiculous. But in the interest of protecting my Employee I might have made the same decision to send someone different.

 

[IndyRnRfan]

I'm shocked by my own ignorance I actually didn't realise people still did things like this in this day and age.

To add to this scenario, we have a very large city in my state that still has a segregated neighborhood. Only one particular race has lived there and it's still that way today. I was shocked when I heard this.

 

[bcla]

To add to this scenario, we have a very large city in my state that still has a segregated neighborhood. Only one particular race has lived there and it's still that way today. I was shocked when I heard this.

We used to have neighborhoods like that in the San Francisco Bay Area. Maybe not officially as such in the past 60 years, but practically so. However, they're running into gentrification. It's actually getting to the point where long time residents are resenting newcomers.

 

[bcla]

Putting one of MY colleagues into a situation that I know is going to end badly didn't seem fair to my colleague. If you have someone in this day and age that is so racist and classless that they would make this request out loud, then there is no level to which they won't sink. That person is going to find every fault with my colleague based on nothing more than their own prejudices and I wouldn't knowingly put my colleague into that position.

However, that rather runs into issues with employment discrimination laws. There are some legitimate reasons for picking someone from a certain background to do a job, including speaking a certain language or perhaps where cultural sensitivity may be an issue. However, the Lowe's incident sounded pretty ordinary. All parties seemed to understand English and grew up in the south.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/titlevii.cfm
http://www.shrm.org/legalissues/fed.../pages/titleviiofthecivilrightsactof1964.aspx

 

[IndyRnRfan]

We used to have neighborhoods like that in the San Francisco Bay Area. Maybe not officially as such in the past 60 years, but practically so. However, they're running into gentrification. It's actually getting to the point where long time residents are resenting newcomers.

Same families keep generation after generation in these houses and even people of the same race are not welcomed. A few "outsiders" have tried to move in but that didn't work too well so they all moved elsewhere.

 

[bcla]

Same families keep generation after generation in these houses and even people of the same race are not welcomed. A few "outsiders" have tried to move in but that didn't work too well so they all moved elsewhere.

I was thinking like the Mission District in San Francisco. I remember seeing the movie Vertigo, where the San Francisco crowd laughed when someone called it "Skid Row". Over the years it turned into a mostly Hispanic neighborhood, but now that there's a high demand almost anywhere in San Francisco, it's considered a fun and edgy place for young, highly educated workers to live. Market rents (typically when a rent controlled tenant leaves) can be really ridiculous, and it's still considered somewhat of a dangerous neighborhood. The Bayview-Hunters Point neighborhood is still considered gang territory, but more and more people are taking the chances of living there with housing prices going up. In 25 years I think it could be thoroughly gentrified.

I guess the oddest isn't really a racial or economic difference. The Castro District of San Francisco is known for being the heart of the gay movement on the West Coast. However, now more and more straight people are moving in. I've even heard some of the more militant gay residents yell insults at straight couples holding hands on the street.