LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[Dr Gevil]

N

 

[Dr Gevil]

I really don't understand these two posts. LLP said she wasn't sure what the reference by Jimmy to burning calories meant and I simply commented that I thought it was intended to be a metaphor.

Drax the Destroyer? Quite the observation? I'm sure neither of you are trying to be snarky so I'm puzzled by your comments.


.

Not trying to be snarky, at least in the FP+ good/bad debate. I really don't have a dog in this fight - I just like the entertainment value. For full disclosure, I do lean towards liking FP+.

It just seemed that PPs were having problem "getting metaphors", just like Drax in Guardians of the Galaxy. Once he figured them them out, it was quite funny.
I was going for that humor component and it went over some heads - just not Drax's - his reflexes are too fast.

 

[flicx]

Well, I have to say, I read all the advice here before our recent trip to the world, and HATE HATE HATE FP+ so much we probably won't be going back. We were "commando" like disers who worked the old FP system to our benefit. Our kids got to ride, ride, ride the things they wanted and we never had any problem hopping to a second park to ride. This system totally makes that impossible.

I dutifully stayed up to midnight and booked FP+ for everyone in our group 30 days in advance. We arrive at our selected park of the day, MK, and our first two FP rides are down and not expected back up for hours, if at all. So, we can't hop over to EPCOT like we used to if MK was packed, BECAUSE WE CAN'T GET FASTPASSES until much later in the day, and we have to give up our MK fastpasses to get new ones. Even the rides that were open, were breaking down. I can't believe how many rides we were able to get on that simply stopped more than once during the ride. Where is Disney putting all the money they are getting from us? Certainly not to ride maintenance.

Disney is better left to all of you who have no problems handing over your money to a corporation that limits your ability to maximize your visit. It is no longer a value for us when we pay in excess of $80 per person per day and can only ride maybe 6 rides, and then only maybe 2 headliners. I must say, during the same time period, we also visited one of Disney's local competitors and found it quite manageable. We didn't need to buy a "front of the line" either, as we were able to plan and work around the crowds. If you aren't interested in spending all of your time in one specific topical area, you can ride whatever you want with almost no lines.

Again, Disney has ceased to be a destination for our family after this experience. We can, and often do, travel to other locations which are equally enjoyable, and spend much less. In fact, our trips to our favorite Caribbean island cost us much less than Disney, even if it is consider to be one of the most expensive islands in the area.

I know many of you won't agree, and I hope you continue to enjoy Disney. But it no longer works for our family as we like to maximize our experiences and we can't with Disney.

I can feel your pain! Many of the issues you have brought up concern our family too. We are on the edge of the cliff and may make the not going back plunge too. One more trip because we have paid tickets, after that it may be farewell and adieu to you fair Spanish ladies!

 

[JimmyV]

Jimmy, I happen to think your "Alternatively" day is terrible.

Do you not see the waste? .

I've been to Epcot every year since its opening save two. And every year since the implementation of FP- save one. Prior to FP+, my scenario #2 was our typical day unless I went with my daughter alone, and left "I don't do Rope Drop" mom behind. I never had a day that was less than "pleasant". We always got FPs for both TT and Soarin'. Always had a dinner ADR at either WS or the S/D and never missed either a FP return time or an ADR. But we are a family that loves Innoventions and all the hands on stuff in the pavilions. So if our Soarin' return time was 11:30, we had wonderful times in FW and never considered our time as wasted, disorganized or random. Honestly? I don't need to explain or justify our time in Epcot over what has been no fewer than 70 days. Epcot is not a park that demands a touring plan that is pre-planned to the minute. Indeed, I find that to be antithetical to the whole "hands on" approach. It is a free form park. Give me a FP for TT saving me an hour and one for Soarin' saving me another hour and I am just fine. I don't care what the return times are. And if I want a more adventurous day? I wake up my daughter and we tiptoe out of the room at 8:00.

 

[lauradis]

Sure. I was not aware you expected that. Sure--it allows all that fabulous stuff.

I understand there are people who want to trade all of that. And I am sorry that their vacations are ruined if that is the basis of whether they enjoy their trip. But that ship has sailed and the steady drumbeat demanding it, arguing for it, debating on why it was better -- gets you nowhere. But it has been acknowledged repeatedly at various points.

RD is AN antidote. It is not the ONLY antidote. Why is that so difficult to understand?

And RD is not always on our cards either. We have done EPCOT twice, DHS once, and MK twice without Rope drop. All of which could be successfully addressed.

But the problem becomes when folks want to have their cake and eat it, too. Not everyone will be made happy. But the large majority will adapt as needed for their particular circumstance.

As I have stated--I have gone quite a bit during all 3 situations where fast pass did not exist at all, paper fast pass and now Fast pass plus. Amazing that joy could be found in all of those circumstances. But folks are acting like dropping fast pass is the end of the world. It is merely a first world problem and nothing more.

Hate or love FP+ don't you old timers remember pre all FP days?

Bubbles, joking, whining in line for the best rides ever?

Are you really that much of a grumpy (not the pp im quoting) that you can't wait for a ride you want.

Im really sick of all this complaining about FP+, disney has changed so many thing over the years. some i like, some i hate but my desire to go to MK has never ended.

maybe this is it for all the FP+ haters, right this min. I say goodbye, less people in line with me for the coolest place on earth.

The saying comes to mind. If you don't love it leave it.

 

[Planogirl]

I see that the beat goes on here. Nothing wrong with that but it's hard to keep up sometimes.

I want to comment on a few parts of the discussion. I routinely see some of the pro-FP+ crowd saying that people seem to dislike FP+ because they can't ride things multiple time like they did before. I can only speak for me but my issue is being so over scheduled. I have our FP+ booked but I already feel frazzled because I hate, HATE being scheduled like this. I want to pick the park I want to go to when I wake up and get fastpasses for the rides that I'm in the mood for. I understand that many others don't feel this way but I do. We never rode that many rides over and over (Star Tours and Haunted Mansion being exceptions) so this bit about not being to ride headliners over and over doesn't apply to our family at least.

Also, I wonder when I see comments that it's odd that people continue to complain after FP+ has been in place for so long. If people don't like something they certainly have the right to say so just as those who do like it often (and some continuously) say so. This is after all a discussion board and not just a place to fawn all over the wonder and splendor of everything Disney.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I see that the beat goes on here. Nothing wrong with that but it's hard to keep up sometimes.

I want to comment on a few parts of the discussion. I routinely see some of the pro-FP+ crowd saying that people seem to dislike FP+ because they can't ride things multiple time like they did before. I can only speak for me but my issue is being so over scheduled. I have our FP+ booked but I already feel frazzled because I hate, HATE being scheduled like this. I want to pick the park I want to go to when I wake up and get fastpasses for the rides that I'm in the mood for. I understand that many others don't feel this way but I do. We never rode that many rides over and over (Star Tours and Haunted Mansion being exceptions) so this bit about not being to ride headliners over and over doesn't apply to our family at least.

Also, I wonder when I see comments that it's odd that people continue to complain after FP+ has been in place for so long. If people don't like something they certainly have the right to say so just as those who do like it often (and some continuously) say so. This is after all a discussion board and not just a place to fawn all over the wonder and splendor of everything Disney.

Nothing wrong with not liking things and reporting how and why it doesn't work for them. Nothing wrong with providing the counter point.

But I do prefer actual experience to speculation. And I prefer someone sharing their trip report of their awful experience to someone complaining relentlessly that Disney doesn't care about its guests for this awful thing they have done but has yet to experience the changes.

One helps in my planning and the other does not.

Though I prefer folks not ever have an awful trip, but that is a tall order because crap happens. We have had bad experiences. It would be naive to presume Disney has maintained immunity all these years.

 

[prudence64]

Given that fp+ isn't going away I think the only option for people who feel over scheduled is to embrace it as a loose guide to the day instead of a stiff schedule. If the times you scheduled wrk during your day, great. If not, change them or skip them and don't worry about it.

I moved things around a lot and never felt married to any of our fp times

 

[MrInfinity]

I've been to Epcot every year since its opening save two. And every year since the implementation of FP- save one. Prior to FP+, my scenario #2 was our typical day. I never had a day that was less than "pleasant". We always got FPs for both TT and Soarin'. Always had a dinner ADR at either WS or the S/D.

Why not do this now? All you've really described is doing TT and Soarin once each, despite lots of walking around. This can be done now. What I'm getting, is that you are not claiming to have spent less time, but rather you are perfectly willing to wait long times for things, as long as that waiting is in the form of a trip into a building or across a park to get a ticket. You're still doing the waiting tho.

Give me a FP for TT saving me an hour and one for Soarin' saving me another hour and I am just fine.

If you were actually saving the time, it would be great. But with FP- you had to put in time now to save time later. With FP+ you are still doing that, putting in time now to save time later, but you are putting the time in before your trip, on a non-Disney day. So the time saved really is time saved. I just don't see that you're making a case against FP+ based on this day. It sounds fine, and no less doable now.

Are your days really less enjoyable now? You have that hard of a time getting on Soarin and TT in the same day between the hours of 11:30 and 7pm?

 

[Angel Ariel]

I moved things around a lot and never felt married to any of our fp times

If we had found that much flexobility, we might feel differently about fp+, but that wasn't our experience with the system.

 

[MrInfinity]

I can only speak for me but my issue is being so over scheduled. I have our FP+ booked but I already feel frazzled because I hate, HATE being scheduled like this. I want to pick the park I want to go to when I wake up and get fastpasses for the rides that I'm in the mood for. I understand that many others don't feel this way but I do.

Even as pro-FP+ as I might come across, this is one area in which I've always agreed w the nay-crowd. Yeah. If you don't like to plan, or aren't willing to commit to a park, then this system is just not going to be appealing to you. But I am willing to plan, and am willing to pick a park... So given that I am planning ahead and committing to things, my reward for doing so is getting the things I've planned. I think that's fair.

If we had found that much flexibility, we might feel differently about fp+, but that wasn't our experience with the system.

I moved things around a lot, too. So I have a hard time understanding this complaint. The big-ticket items aside... but then in FP- days, it's not like you could move your TSMM paper ticket around. It gave you an hour window, and you couldn't change it. Your option was to go or not go. So aside from the main headliner or two at each park, which were always pretty immobile in the past, what is hard to move around?

My biggest constraint was an ADR. We had to leave the Conservation area early one day to go make an ADR. A ride, we could have skipped with no penalty, and still rode it standby. But miss an ADR and you are out your lunch with a fee and no option to reschedule. So that was the one constraint we ran into. It was never a FP+ window.

 

[Cormoran]

Regardless of what people say on these boards: such as if you don't like it leave. This thread is a discussion and I have a right to post my opinions just as everyone else does. I find the oft repeated statements:

• If you don't like FP+, don't go to WDW
• People who don't like FP+ don't like change
• People who don't like FP+ are thrill ride junkies and they can no longer repeatedly ride the same attraction
• We suffered with Legacy FP for years and now it's your turn

To be both offensive and demeaning. I'm glad that people love FP+.

But if FP+ was such a great product why would there be so many threads about it? Why are there daily threads asking for FP+ advice? Why is Mesaboy's thread about FP+ the #1 thread of the year? FP+ is what it is. It has allowed me to schedule 3 rides and then stand in longer standby lines throughout the parks. It has sucked the spontaneity out of my trips. But on the bright side, I still have DLR to visit where all things remain possible.

 

[JimmyV]

Why not do this now? All you've really described is doing TT and Soarin once each, despite lots of walking around. This can be done now. What I'm getting, is that you are not claiming to have spent less time, but rather you are perfectly willing to wait long times for things, as long as that waiting is in the form of a trip into a building or across a park to get a ticket. You're still doing the waiting tho.

You refer to "walking around" and "waiting" under my prior approach. But waiting for what? With a FP for both Soarin' and Test Track, I waited for nothing. It was all "doing". My last trip was with FP+. We got into the TT line without a FP and the wait time said 15 minutes at 9:20. We boarded our vehicle 75 minutes later. I never waited like that before. I absolutely spent more time waiting with FP+. I only avoided one line (Soarin' the second time we did it). Soarin' at RD was a wash as compared to before. TT immediately after was a disaster. Before, there was no FP return at 9:20. So the posted 15 minute standby estimate was accurate. Now? 15 equaled 75. My other 2 FPs didn't really save me any time. The waits for those rides was very small. I really felt that FP #2 and #3 were worthless. Would rather have gotten two for Test Track. This is real world experience here. I know what it was like before and it was worse now.

Are your days really less enjoyable now?

What do you think:
Before.....
Soarin' at 9:00 with a 10 minute wait. No FP people cutting us off. ( Got FP before riding for easy second ride).
Test Track immediately thereafter. 15 minute posted wait really was 15 minutes. No FP returners cutting us off. (Got FP later in the day for easy second ride)

Now.....
Soarin' at 9:00. Wait time about same.
Test Track immediately thereafter. FP returners cutting us off. 15 minute posted wait was actually timed and submitted to Touring Plans. 74 minutes. No ability to get FP for easy return visit.

All other pavilions and rides were no different. Walk on Ellen. Walk on Nemo. Walk on Imagination. Walk on Mission Space Green. So the real difference was 2 times each on TT and Soain' with total wait times of (10+15+FP+FP) compared to 2 times on Soarin' and one on TT with total waits of (10+74+FP). How could the second trip not have been less enjoyable? To LLP's point above, this is real trip experience and not fanciful whining about evil Disney.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Regardless of what people say on these boards: such as if you don't like it leave. This thread is a discussion and I have a right to post my opinions just as everyone else does. I find the oft repeated statements:

• If you don't like FP+, don't go to WDW
• People who don't like FP+ don't like change
• People who don't like FP+ are thrill ride junkies and they can no longer repeatedly ride the same attraction
• We suffered with Legacy FP for years and now it's your turn

To be both offensive and demeaning. I'm glad that people love FP+.

But if FP+ was such a great product why would there be so many threads about it? Why are there daily threads asking for FP+ advice? Why is Mesaboy's thread about FP+ the #1 thread of the year? FP+ is what it is. It has allowed me to schedule 3 rides and then stand in longer standby lines throughout the parks. It has sucked the spontaneity out of my trips. But on the bright side, I still have DLR to visit where all things remain possible.

The thread count has diminshed and hopefully that is a sign that people want help with FP+ rather than an orchestra of unhelpful opinions.

And the reason his thread is number 1 is perhaps because it focuses on STRATEGY, TIPS, and helpful assistance. It isn't a thread about grievances and longing for the days of old.

There is an entire sub board dedicated to ADRs, an entire board to dining and an entire board dedicated to resorts.
Why? To facilitate planning.

Again-asking for tips on a product you have never used or to navigate an issue that seems to not have a solution is perfectly legit. Happens on the other boards as well.

Saying you will go to DLR, while certainly your prerogative, I am not sure how it is helpful when repeated constantly. But feel free to continue sharing if you feel it will help someone determine when to schedule their fast pass.

 

[cakebaker]

Regardless of what people say on these boards: such as if you don't like it leave. This thread is a discussion and I have a right to post my opinions just as everyone else does. I find the oft repeated statements:

• If you don't like FP+, don't go to WDW
• People who don't like FP+ don't like change
• People who don't like FP+ are thrill ride junkies and they can no longer repeatedly ride the same attraction
• We suffered with Legacy FP for years and now it's your turn

To be both offensive and demeaning. I'm glad that people love FP+.

But if FP+ was such a great product why would there be so many threads about it? Why are there daily threads asking for FP+ advice? Why is Mesaboy's thread about FP+ the #1 thread of the year? FP+ is what it is. It has allowed me to schedule 3 rides and then stand in longer standby lines throughout the parks. It has sucked the spontaneity out of my trips. But on the bright side, I still have DLR to visit where all things remain possible.

And I find being told:

• I do nothing but sing the praises of Disney
• That I must be a Disney "plant"
• That I am blinded by pixie dust
• That I can't admit Disney does anything wrong
• That I'm stupid because I continue to throw my money away at a place that limits my enjoyment

To be both offensive and demeaning. I'm fine with people not liking fp+.

I believe there are so many complaints here because this board, for the most part, is comprised of long time WDW vets who loved fp and how they could use it to their advantage. It would follow that a system that no longer allows that would not be met with great joy. These days I'm reading more and more posts from people who have actually had the opportunity to go and found they really enjoyed what FP+ does for them. I feel the tide turning, slowly, but it's getting there. When you take out the relatively few handful of posters who complain constantly, it seems that there's more positive than negative these days.

I'm sure Mesaboy's thread is popular because people want to learn the optimum way to use FP+.

It just takes time to get people used to it and actually have the opportunity to try it. So while there may be a constant negative drumbeat, there really aren't that many drums in the band.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

You refer to "walking around" and "waiting" under my prior approach. But waiting for what? With a FP for both Soarin' and Test Track, I waited for nothing. It was all "doing". My last trip was with FP+. We got into the TT line without a FP and the wait time said 15 minutes at 9:20. We boarded our vehicle 75 minutes later. I never waited like that before. I absolutely spent more time waiting with FP+. I only avoided one line (Soarin' the second time we did it). Soarin' at RD was a wash as compared to before. TT immediately after was a disaster. Before, there was no FP return at 9:20. So the posted 15 minute standby estimate was accurate. Now? 15 equaled 75. My other 2 FPs didn't really save me any time. The waits for those rides was very small. I really felt that FP #2 and #3 were worthless. Would rather have gotten two for Test Track. This is real world experience here. I know what it was like before and it was worse now.



What do you think:
Before.....
Soarin' at 9:00 with a 10 minute wait. No FP people cutting us off. ( Got FP before riding for easy second ride).
Test Track immediately thereafter. 15 minute posted wait really was 15 minutes. No FP returners cutting us off. (Got FP later in the day for easy second ride)

Now.....
Soarin' at 9:00. Wait time about same.
Test Track immediately thereafter. FP returners cutting us off. 15 minute posted wait was actually timed and submitted to Touring Plans. 74 minutes. No ability to get FP for easy return visit.

All other pavilions and rides were no different. Walk on Ellen. Walk on Nemo. Walk on Imagination. Walk on Mission Space Green. So the real difference was 2 times each on TT and Soain' with total wait times of (10+15+FP+FP) compared to 2 times on Soarin' and one on TT with total waits of (10+74+FP). How could the second trip not have been less enjoyable? To LLP's point above, this is real trip experience and not fanciful whining about evil Disney.

And that is appreciated.

The burning calories comment--not so much.

 

[flicx]

Even as pro-FP+ as I might come across, this is one area in which I've always agreed w the nay-crowd. Yeah. If you don't like to plan, or aren't willing to commit to a park, then this system is just not going to be appealing to you. But I am willing to plan, and am willing to pick a park... So given that I am planning ahead and committing to things, my reward for doing so is getting the things I've planned. I think that's fair.

It wasn't fair with fp legacy? Legacy was uh easier to figure out and use. The biggest complaint about it was you could not come into the park late in the afternoon and still get headliners. All plus did was allow a late comers fast passes they couldn't get before. You feel you should be rewarded for getting on the internet 60 days in advance. Legacy users felt they should be rewarded because they got there first(ie earlier in the day). I like the latter. I think it is fair. Bottom line is when you take all the hype away from plus, Disney was only trying to make as much money as they could off of people. It was never about making things more fair or better for their customers, just squeezing every last cent out of people.

 

[JimmyV]

And that is appreciated.

The burning calories comment--not so much.

Sorry. I didn't think that could have been misinterpreted. It was merely an allusion to "working the computer keyboard". We use it all the time at work. "Joe is really burning the calories working on that report". Since every post here is the result of someone clacking away at a keyboard, it seemed to fit. Sorry if you didn't get the reference.

Since you aren't "stationary" when typing, then you are burning calories.

 

[cakebaker]

Bottom line is when you take all the hype away from plus, Disney was only trying to make as much money as they could off of people. It was never about making things more fair or better for their customers, just squeezing every last cent out of people.

If Disney wants to squeeze every dime out of people they can, they satisfying as many people as possible and making their experience as positive as possible is how they do it. You don't make money making people miserable. In order to make money, you have to make as many people satisfied as possible. In the process, you're to going to lose some. It might be all about making more money ( and I find nothing wrong with that), but in order to make more, you have to keep your guests happy- but that doesn't mean you have to keep the whole world happy.

You try and make it sound awful that a company wants to make as much profit as they possibly can, when in fact that's what they're supposed to do.

 

[MrInfinity]

But if FP+ was such a great product why would there be so many threads about it? Why are there daily threads asking for FP+ advice?

Because it's change. Same thing when DOS went to Windows, Windows 3 went to Windows XP, XP to 7, and now 7 to 8 or even newer. The changing of what has been done for 10 years is not easy to bear. You had to vastly change how you used a computer. Simple things that seemed so easy before now seem so much harder. However, if you look back 2 or 3 renditions of Windows... you just have to cringe... and think wow... I used to like that? FP+ is more of the same. This is not the first Disney-change to upset lots of guests at the time, and will not be the last. But Disney will continue to evolve, and we'll learn to optimize any system they put forth.

To me the changes are much less "all that". It's just the ride queuing system. And you do it on your phone instead of on paper. And you do it ahead of time. So go have fun at Disney World. This is not in any way something that would make me say "oh, I don't get a FP to Soarin and TT now, so I'm going to Universal". Whatever. It's the same park it always was (only -- way better than when I went in the 80's) and in practice, I still have no trouble riding everything I want in a day.