LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

[jade1]

Soon all we will need is this: http://www.google.com/get/cardboard/

Awesome

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I certainly hope that I am wrong, but I suspect that if one is not impressed with Soarin', Star Tours, Body Wars, Simpsons, Minions, etc., one will not be impressed with the Avatar ride. But if one does like those types of rides, then be prepared for the state of the art, best in the business, version of all of that.

For me it depends upon the motion. From all reports, Body wars would have been a no go for me.

Soarin', I can't figure out how one is uncomfortable on the ride except the height off the ground because though it moves, I find it mostly gentle.

Star Tours varies depending upon the day for me. Some times too much motion and sometimes just right.

Another one of those--won't know until you try it type things. Yet, folks like to insist they just know either way.

I look forward to the opportunity to try it.

 

[Laketravis]

I've often wondered, are there more people riding with FP+ on a given ride than with FP-?

I don't mean the attractions that never had FP.

I think it depends on the attraction. I could see some that might have a majority of capacity allocated to FP's on all or some days.

Certainly the algorithms are dynamic and not static in their allocation amounts.

.

 

[JimmyV]

I've often wondered, are there more people riding with FP+ on a given ride than with FP-?

I obviously don't have the numbers, but from my own observation, I would say yes. First, the first hour of park operation allows FP+ return. So FP+ has a one hour headstart on FP-. Second, with FP-, you would typically see 20-30 FP people skip by, and then the SB line would get a turn. With FP+, I have seen endless streams of FP returners board the ride with little to no movement from the SB line. One time at BTMRR, a guy in the SB line was hanging his head out of one of the windows that you pass in the queue yelling and screaming to anyone who would listen that he hadn't moved an inch in line...(he was "stationary") for over 20 minutes. This was as we got into the FP return line. We wound our way through the line, rode the ride, and headed out the exit and......he was still at that same window. The FP return was occupying 95%-100% of the ride capacity. Could have been operator error. Or it could mean that there are just that many more people with FPs.

 

[cakebaker]

I certainly hope that I am wrong, but I suspect that if one is not impressed with Soarin', Star Tours, Body Wars, Simpsons, Minions, etc., one will not be impressed with the Avatar ride. But if one does like those types of rides, then be prepared for the state of the art, best in the business, version of all of that.

I can be both impressed and not like it all at the same time. I like Soarin' a great deal, but it has little to do with the technology- the others- not so much.

 

[Laketravis]

For me it depends upon the motion.....

I enjoy "smooth" no matter what direction or speed. I don't enjoy "jerky" regardless of direction or speed.


.

 

[jade1]

I certainly hope that I am wrong, but I suspect that if one is not impressed with Soarin', Star Tours, Body Wars, Simpsons, Minions, etc., one will not be impressed with the Avatar ride.

Agreed-but "impressed" is not on everyone's agenda. I was impressed with DA-but they missed the boat entirley IMO, where the heck is the extended track whipping through the caverns in the bank?

But if one does like those types of rides, then be prepared for the state of the art, best in the business, version of all of that.

Agreed again.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I enjoy "smooth" no matter what direction or speed. I don't enjoy "jerky" regardless of direction or speed.


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I found Spider-Man jerky. I do think it is a YMMV thing.

 

[jade1]

I enjoy "smooth" no matter what direction or speed. I don't enjoy "jerky" regardless of direction or speed.


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You do not enjoy Spidey or Transformers then-or certainly Space, but I hear ya. Kinda what I was saying before about Spidey compared to what Avatar appears to be.

 

[Laketravis]

Spider-man and Revenge of the Mummy both have their share of jerks - both in movement and people riding them.

I can't stand people who scream at the top of their lungs during an entire ride because they think it's funny (but that's an entirely new thread).


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[JimmyV]

I enjoy "smooth" no matter what direction or speed. I don't enjoy "jerky" regardless of direction or speed.

I'm assuming "smooth". More in line with Soarin'. There isn't really anything about the Avatar storyline that suggests that we should be in for a harrowing ride through Pandora. I know. I know. Something always goes "wrong", and we get spun out of control. But maybe I am like Charlie Brown hoping that Lucy won't pull away the football just this once, but I don't think the "something goes wrong" script will be employed here. Color me naive.

 

[Laketravis]

You do not enjoy Spidey or Transformers then-or certainly Space, but I hear ya. Kinda what I was saying before about Spidey compared to what Avatar appears to be.

I enjoyed all of the other elements of both rides. I just didn't enjoy the brief jerky moments. Same with Mummy.

Those moments comprised but a fraction of the overall experience so overall I can say I enjoyed them. If the jerky moments comprised a majority of the experience, I'd feel much differently in aggregate.

.

 

[jade1]

I obviously don't have the numbers, but from my own observation, I would say yes. First, the first hour of park operation allows FP+ return. So FP+ has a one hour headstart on FP-. Second, with FP-, you would typically see 20-30 FP people skip by, and then the SB line would get a turn. With FP+, I have seen endless streams of FP returners board the ride with little to no movement from the SB line. One time at BTMRR, a guy in the SB line was hanging his head out of one of the windows that you pass in the queue yelling and screaming to anyone who would listen that he hadn't moved an inch in line...(he was "stationary") for over 20 minutes. This was as we got into the FP return line. We wound our way through the line, rode the ride, and headed out the exit and......he was still at that same window. The FP return was occupying 95%-100% of the ride capacity. Could have been operator error. Or it could mean that there are just that many more people with FPs.

So that would mean SB is very few guests overall, meaning even a long SB wait is for only a small % of guests.

So a 60 min wait in the old days was for 1000 guests, and now a 90 min wait is for 100 guests? And the other 900 rolled through with no wait?

 

[Laketravis]

So that would mean SB is very few guests overall, meaning even a long SB wait is for only a small % of guests.

So a 60 min wait in the old days was for 1000 guests, and now a 90 min wait is for 100 guests? And the other 900 rolled through with no wait?

That would certainly be a valid mathematical conclusion if the ratios are adjusted to allow more of the FP queue thru in relation to the SB queue.

It's why I suggested letting less FP guests thru and more SB guests thru - while the net effect on the FP line may only be a few minutes, it could reduce the SB line by 15 or 20.

Look at how US EP works - I "waited" in an EP queue longer than I ever have in an FP queue, but the SB lines weren't nearly as long because they let fewer EP guests thru before they switch to SB.

But if your point is that more people benefit now then that's not a valid point because those 900 guests face the same exaggerated SB conditions once they've used their FP's.


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[jade1]

That would certainly be a valid mathematical conclusion if the ratios are adjusted to allow more of the FP queue thru in relation to the SB queue.

It's why I suggested letting less FP guests thru and more SB guests thru - while the net effect on the FP line may only be a few minutes, it could reduce the SB line by 15 or 20.

Look at how US EP works - I "waited" in an EP queue longer than I ever have in an FP queue, but the SB lines weren't nearly as long because they let fewer EP guests thru before they switch to SB.

But if your point is that more people benefit now then that's not a valid point because those 900 guests incur the same exaggerated SB conditions once they've used their FP's.


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So 90% of the available slots are now no wait-yet nobody benefitted?

 

[JimmyV]

So 90% of the available slots are now no wait-yet nobody benefitted?

I doubt that it is 90% FP capacity. But this is all a balancing game. You get to "benefit" three times. So three times you are the windshield. But if you ride 23 rides that day, you are a bug the other 20 times. You just have to figure out if being a windshield three times is worth the cost of being a bug 20 times. Like everything else....it depends.

 

[jade1]

I doubt that it is 90% FP capacity. But this is all a balancing game. You get to "benefit" three times. So three times you are the windshield. But if you ride 23 rides that day, you are a bug the other 20 times. You just have to figure out if being a windshield three times is worth the cost of being a bug 20 times. Like everything else....it depends.

I see. Funny-I don't ride 23 times the whole week at XMAS, never have. So more than worth it for us.

 

[jade1]

That would certainly be a valid mathematical conclusion if the ratios are adjusted to allow more of the FP queue thru in relation to the SB queue.

It's why I suggested letting less FP guests thru and more SB guests thru - while the net effect on the FP line may only be a few minutes, it could reduce the SB line by 15 or 20.

Look at how US EP works - I "waited" in an EP queue longer than I ever have in an FP queue, but the SB lines weren't nearly as long because they let fewer EP guests thru before they switch to SB.

But if your point is that more people benefit now then that's not a valid point because those 900 guests face the same exaggerated SB conditions once they've used their FP's.


.

I'm not sure letting SB move faster is very helpful really.

If 90% are filing through to the available slots-slowing them down can back up very fast I would think. UNI probably only filters a small % in comparison.

But I can also see at WDW with having close to 50% of guests stuck in headliner SB lines for an hour in the FP- days, kept the secondary ride waits lower-not much they could do about it after FP's were gone.

 

[JimmyV]

I see. Funny-I don't ride 23 times the whole week at XMAS, never have.

The whole Christmas week crowd thing makes everything unique. But look at it in smaller ride numbers on a more "typical" day.

• Guest arrives at Epcot at 9:30 and has a FP+ for Soarin' from 9:45-10:45.
• Guest uses FP and by-passes a 75 minute wait.
• Guest goes to Test Track and rides SB with a 90 minute wait.

That guest got the benefit of bypassing the Soarin' line, and has the benefit of planning the rest of their day with military precision, except for the 100 minutes it took them to wait in line and then ride Test Track. They know exactly when they can leave the park, when they can schedule their BBB appointment, and when they can have lunch and dinner. These are all great benefits that come with FP+.

Alternatively....

• Guest arrives at Epcot at 9:30 and pulls a FP- for Soarin'. The Guest will know the return time because the machine will tell them. But for purposes of this discussion, you and I don't know. Let's assume it is 2:00-3:00 p.m.
• Guest does other stuff for 2 hours
• At 11:30, Guest becomes eligible for another FP and pulls one for Test Track. Again, the Guest will know the return time because the machine will tell them. But for purposes of this discussion, you and I don't know. Let's assume it is 7:00-8:00 p.m.
• Guest goes off and does more stuff, waiting for the 2:00 return time at Soarin'.

The Guest has a certain "randomness" to their day. They cannot plan as much in advance. Once they have their FPs in hand, they can pretty much plot out the day. And if they booked an ADR in advance for dinner at 6:15, there is great chance that this will be doable. They lose the ability to plan with military precision. But what they gained was the ability to bypass both the 90 minute line at Soarin' at 2:00 and the 70 minute line at Test Track at 7:00.

Some people prefer the military precision of scenario #1.
Some people prefer the double-bypass of the lines in scenario #2.
Neither preference is "right" or "wrong". And explains why this debate has been waged for 70+ pages.

But by going at Christmas, scenario #2 might not even be a viable option for you, as the second FP pulled at 11:30 might not exist. If this has been your experience, then you would choose scenario #1 every time. About 350 days a year though, scenario #2 was a very viable option.

 

[jade1]

The whole Christmas week crowd thing makes everything unique. But look at it in smaller ride numbers on a more "typical" day.

• Guest arrives at Epcot at 9:30 and has a FP+ for Soarin' from 9:45-10:45.
• Guest uses FP and by-passes a 75 minute wait.
• Guest goes to Test Track and rides SB with a 90 minute wait.

That guest got the benefit of bypassing the Soarin' line, and has the benefit of planning the rest of their day with military precision, except for the 100 minutes it took them to wait in line and then ride Test Track. They know exactly when they can leave the park, when they can schedule their BBB appointment, and when they can have lunch and dinner. These are all great benefits that come with FP+.

Alternatively....

• Guest arrives at Epcot at 9:30 and pulls a FP- for Soarin'. The Guest will know the return time because the machine will tell them. But for purposes of this discussion, you and I don't know. Let's assume it is 2:00-3:00 p.m.
• Guest does other stuff for 2 hours
• At 11:30, Guest becomes eligible for another FP and pulls one for Test Track. Again, the Guest will know the return time because the machine will tell them. But for purposes of this discussion, you and I don't know. Let's assume it is 7:00-8:00 p.m.

The Guest has a certain "randomness" to their day. They cannot plan as much in advance. Once they have their FPs in hand, they can pretty much plot out the day. And if they booked an ADR in advance for dinner at 6:15, there is great chance that this will be doable. They lose the ability to plan with military precision. But what they gained was the ability to bypass both the 90 minute line at Soarin' at 2:00 and the 70 minute line at Test Track at 7:00.

Some people prefer the military precision of scenario #1.
Some people prefer the double-bypass of the lines in scenario #2.
Neither preference is "right" or "wrong". And explains why this debate has been waged for 70+ pages.

But by going at Christmas, scenario #2 might not even be a viable option for you, as the second FP pulled at 11:30 might not exist. If this has been your experience, then you would choose scenario #1 every time. About 350 days a year though, scenario #2 was a very viable option.

Once again we use EPCOT.

But regardless, average guest arrives at noon, so even the 11:30 FP might be gone (and certainly no time for a "2nd FP+")-no FP at all for the average guest. 90 Min at Soarin at 2, and 70 for TT at 7.