LOVE or HATE FP+ Anyone's mind been changed ??

When FP+ first came out I was terrified. I seriously believed my beloved disney trips were going to be ruined from then on out. I rebelled during the first rolling out where they were "surprising" certain hotel guests with "look at these great new doohickies!" I took the KTTW card instead telling them what a horrible idea all of it was. I totally bought the gloom and doom of it all.

When I first tried it I realized it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. It takes some getting use to but I saw the good in the system. I really like it now!! I've learned how I like to schedule them. I've changed on the fly many times. I've found myself frustrated at times but I've also found myself bowled over by its awesomeness when it works the way I want. I LOVE having everything on my wrist. The only thing I do not like is the tiering at epcot and DHS. Other than that it's all good for me. :)
 
multi-trip guests who grew quite fond of paper fp and the ability to re-ride popular rides many times a day.

This is not even close to my biggest gripe about FP+. I would be completely fine with 3 FP selections per day if I got to choose them all day of and it worked basically the same way the old system did.

By FAR my biggest complaint with the current system is the huge restrictions it places upon your schedule for the day.
 
iWow, you can cut the snarkiness on this thread with a knife. Are some of you trying to get this one closed too?

I said "seems there's a lot of traffic between WDW and USO" and that I'm glad they are working on expanding I-4. Draw your own laughable conclusions but I think my comment was pretty clear; I've been told in numerous posts that the traffic between the two park systems is very bad.


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There is definitely a lot of traffic between the two resorts. Why is irrelevant.

This is where personal preference comes in.

Some people prefer using their 3 FPs and then enjoying some attractions that have short lines (even if they aren't the biggest headliners in the park), or maybe taking in some of the nighttime entertainment.

Other people like to use up their 3 FPs and then get out to the parking lot, drive over to Universal, park there, trek over to one of the Universal parks and get in line for one of the HP attractions before the park closes.

You know which you prefer and I know which I would prefer. I wonder which of us is in the majority.
We always drive to the parks. It's easy to head to Universal in the morning, enjoy until after lunch, rest at the hotel for a few hours and then drive to MK for the evening. You mentioned doing it the other way around but MK in the evening is the best since it tends to stay open late.

There's no way we would do this often but it's nice for a few days during a trip.

By the way, calling Universal a parasite like someone did seems odd. I see them as equal and actually helping each other. As was mentioned parasites damage or even kill their hosts and I don't see that happening at all.
 

This is not even close to my biggest gripe about FP+. I would be completely fine with 3 FP selections per day if I got to choose them all day of and it worked basically the same way the old system did.

By FAR my biggest complaint with the current system is the huge restrictions it places upon your schedule for the day.

I personally felt more restricted with the old system. I had a TSMM that I pulled mid to late morning that didn't have a return time until 7:00 pm or so. So, we stayed longer than intended. Another that fell right during an ADR. I like not having it be a gamble.
 
This is not even close to my biggest gripe about FP+. I would be completely fine with 3 FP selections per day if I got to choose them all day of and it worked basically the same way the old system did.

By FAR my biggest complaint with the current system is the huge restrictions it places upon your schedule for the day.

The first part of the sentence you didn't include says "a huge majority of the Dis are" long time, multi-trip guests ....". So I would expect that there are people on the dis who aren't as I described.

And my biggest complaint about paper fp was that it placed restrictions on our schedule for the day.
 
By the way, calling Universal a parasite like someone did seems odd. I see them as equal and actually helping each other. As was mentioned parasites damage or even kill their hosts and I don't see that happening at all.

Hi Plano,
Parasites are not bad. Or odd. They generally feed off their host w/o harming their host. A predator would have other intentions. It just means that the general Orlando attractions and tourist industry exist because Disney World draws the tourists. If it's hard to think of Universal that way, then maybe think of... The Holiday Inn across the street. Or SeaWorld. Or Wet'n'Wild. Or Legoland. All these smaller places feed off of Disney bringing customers. None of them would exist (Universal included) if Disney had not transformed central Florida into a tourist destination where 50 million people visit yearly. I've been to SeaWorld. And W&W. And Legoland. All on Disney trips. I would not make a trek to Orlando to go to an aquarium, I have one in my home town. But I would go to it if I was otherwise going to WDW and looking for a little something else to do on an extra day.

The Orlando area really only has about 2 million residents. That's not enough of a population base to sustain 5 theme parks (Uni, Ioa, Sea, Busch, Lego) on their own. Much larger cities (Saint Louis, Dallas, Chicago, etc) can only support a single Six Flags off their local population base. These parasite parks rely on Disney World bringing tourists to the area for their livelihood. Around 25-times the Central Florida population comes to the region yearly, because of WDW. That's such a vast disproportion of visitors to locals.

Universal does a good job of differentiating themselves, and I have to hand it to them, for the first time a local park has come up w a strong draw of its own, in the HP theme. But prior to that, Universal was just a coaster park and was in a really dark age of 5 million guests per year. They've finally built some resorts... To become a destination of their own, they would have to attack the family market of parents with children ages 3-9. This is the core tourist market that chooses where to stay on vacation. And Disney owns that.

Universal does not need to attack this, or be a destination of their own. They can focus on attractions for a little different market. Go after those 10-15 crowds. Let Disney bring the families, and then entice them to come to Uni for a couple days for something different. That is a parasite park, and it is a very good model.
 
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There is definitely a lot of traffic between the two resorts. Why is irrelevant.

Then in context of the conversation that was being had, you have to wonder why bring it up? I think it's completely irrelevant. It's certainly not newsworthy that there's heavy traffic in that area, so what was the reason for mentioning it at that point? I guess the OP would have to tell us.
 
The Orlando area really only has about 2 million residents. That's not enough of a population base to sustain 5 8 theme parks (Uni, Ioa, Sea, Busch, Lego,EPCOT, DHS and Disney's Animal Kingdom) on their own. Much larger cities (Saint Louis, Dallas, Chicago, etc) can only support a single Six Flags off their local population base. These parasite parks rely on Disney World The Magic Kingdom bringing tourists to the area for their livelihood. Around 25-times the Central Florida population comes to the region yearly, because of WDW The Magic Kingdom. That's such a vast disproportion of visitors to locals..

Fixed your post for you. :rolleyes1 If you're going to be honest, when many people say they want to go to "Disney" what they really mean is the Magic Kingdom. Disney pricing that continues to separate the price of the MK from the other Disney parks just goes to prove it. When Disney has added parks around the world, they start with a "Magic Kingdom".

Universal does a good job of differentiating themselves, and I have to hand it to them, for the first time a local park has come up w a strong draw of its own, in the HP theme. But prior to that, Universal was just a coaster park and was in a really dark age of 5 million guests per year. They've finally built some resorts... To become a destination of their own, they would have to attack the family market of parents with children ages 3-9. This is the core tourist market that chooses where to stay on vacation. And Disney owns that.

Universal does not need to attack this, or be a destination of their own. They can focus on attractions for a little different market. Go after those 10-15 crowds. Let Disney bring the families, and then entice them to come to Uni for a couple days for something different. That is a parasite park, and it is a very good model.

I don't see Universal as ever being "just a coaster park". Universal Studios Florida opened in 1990 and didn't build it's first coaster until 1999, a kiddie coaster, and didn't build it's first "big" coaster until 2004 with Revenge of the Mummy. So, for the first 14 years of it's existence, it had no coasters or 1 kiddy coaster. It's sister park Islands of Adventure built in 1999 started with 3/4 coasters (depending on how you count dueling dragons) and has built 1 kiddie coaster since then. They build they reputation by being more thrilling than Disney but not necessarily on being a "coaster park".

Looking back at attendance history, Universal's attendance was just slightly behind DHS until Magic Your Way tickets came out and Disney started giving away the gate after spending a certain number of days in the parks. In 1998, USF had 8.5 million Visitor and DHS had 9.1 million visitors. 1999, 8.1 (USF) vs 8.7 (DHS) , 2000 8.1 (USF) vs 8.9 (DHS). Universal hit some dark years following some corporate change of hands and Disney starting Magic Your Way ticketing. With MYW, it is harder to "parasite" off of Disney because after 3-4 days they were giving away the gate. Initially extra days were $2 today it's $10. So the question becomes do you spend $10 and goto DHS because your already planning on spending 2 days at MK and 1 day at Epcot and 1 day at AK. or spends almost $100 and go to Universal (or over $100 if you want to hit both parks).

To the point of the thread, I initially had mixed emotions about FP+. I could see trips I've taken where it would have helped and where it would have been a hindrance. With the added 4th+ rolling FP+ my mind has moved to the mostly love it. But, I can see why certain groups of people don't like it just like certain groups of people didn't like FP-.
 
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Fixed your post for you. :rolleyes1 If you're going to be honest, when many people say they want to go to "Disney" what they really mean is the Magic Kingdom. Disney pricing that continues to separate the price of the MK from the other Disney parks just goes to prove it. When Disney has added parks around the world, they start with a "Magic Kingdom".

To the point of the thread, I initially had mixed emotions about FP+. I could see trips I've taken where it would have helped and where it would have been a hindrance. With the added 4th+ rolling FP+ my mind has moved to the mostly love it. But, I can see why certain groups of people don't like it just like certain groups of people didn't like FP-.

Nice! :) Yes. One could make the argument that Disney filled Central Florida with 3 additional parks of their own to handle some of that overflow. Altho I'd say MK-Epcot is the powerhouse duo that draws ppl to Central Florida.

I don't see Universal as ever being "just a coaster park". Universal Studios Florida opened in 1990 and didn't build it's first coaster until 1999

But then at some point, both Universal and SeaWorld decided to go down this coaster path. Whatever the motivating factor... like you say, they wanted to pull guests by offering a higher thrill.. They abandoned their roots of being a park about movies and a park about fish, and went with simple old thrill. It's cheaper to put in a roller coaster than to build an aquarium and maintain large fish after all.

Looking back at attendance history, Universal's attendance was just slightly behind DHS until Magic Your Way tickets came out and Disney started giving away the gate after spending a certain number of days in the parks.

Yeah. I'm not gonna defend DHS as being able to stand on its own as a park. :) It is really a gate they can give visitors a place to go when they want that "somewhere else". Ok, we paid for the MK... now we can go to DHS for a token amount on our tickets, or we can pay again to go to Universal.
 
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We've been twice but I watched a Disney commercial before going so I'm sure I was blinded to the truth and I couldn't see how miserable we were.
Yep, I was pretty much told the same thing on another thread about bad my trip was with FP+.
I personally felt more restricted with the old system. I had a TSMM that I pulled mid to late morning that didn't have a return time until 7:00 pm or so. So, we stayed longer than intended. Another that fell right during an ADR. I like not having it be a gamble.
Or having to run to the fp machine. We felt the same way with being more restricted, last time with fp- at epcot, by the time we got there, fp return time for Soarin was 8:55, just before illuminations so had to decide which we wanted to do, did we want to ride Soarin or watch illuminations?
 
There is definitely a lot of traffic between the two resorts. Why is irrelevant....

Then in context of the conversation that was being had, you have to wonder why bring it up? I think it's completely irrelevant. It's certainly not newsworthy that there's heavy traffic in that area, so what was the reason for mentioning it at that point? I guess the OP would have to tell us.

You don't need to wonder about anything. The context of the conversation I was having had to do with split stays and how some posters frequently portray a visit to MK (or EP, HS, AK) and USO on the same day as a huge hassle because of traffic and transit time between the two park systems, thus why I commented I'm glad they are improving/expanding I-4.



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You don't need to wonder about anything. The context of the conversation I was having had to do with split stays and how some posters frequently portray a visit to MK (or EP, HS, AK) and USO on the same day as a huge hassle because of traffic and transit time between the two park systems, thus why I commented I'm glad they are improving/expanding I-4.



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It would seem pg and I were both wrong then- My apologies, I could've sworn you were trying to link long needed road improvements to what I consider to be false- that there's a marked increase in WDW guests going back and forth to Universal since the inception of FP+.
 
It would seem pg and I were both wrong then- My apologies, I could've sworn you were trying to link long needed road improvements to what I consider to be false- that there's a marked increase in WDW guests going back and forth to Universal since the inception of FP+.

I don't know (nor would I guess anyone here would know) if that's true one way or another. What I do know is that we have never done it before but since we can reserve a few no-wait conditions in the MK for the evening we are going to try it in less than two weeks and see if it's really that much of a difference between park hopping from, say, AK to the resort to MK.


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But then at some point, both Universal and SeaWorld decided to go down this coaster path. Whatever the motivating factor... like you say, they wanted to pull guests by offering a higher thrill.. They abandoned their roots of being a park about movies and a park about fish, and went with simple old thrill. It's cheaper to put in a roller coaster than to build an aquarium and maintain large fish after all.

My point was, with Universal, your not talking about that many rides.

You've got the 3 big coasters (Hulk, Dragon Challenge and Hollywood Rip Ride Rocket) that most of your complaint is probably centered around. 2 of those at least have highly themed queues. They are also in Islands of Adventure not USF their Movie park. HRRR in USF is probably the biggest fail in the themeing category. You've got 2 "mid sized" rides with coaster elements. Revenge of the Mummy and Escape from Gringotts. Both of those fit squarely in the "ride the movies" theme of USF. Then, you have 3 kiddie coasters. 2 of those Hippogryph and Woody Woodpecker are slightly bigger than Barnstormer and both are better themes. Pteranodon Flyers is lightly themed itself but slightly lends to the theming of dinosaurs flying around the area.

When SeaWorld installed Manta, they also installed a large fish tank as themeing for the queue.
 
I don't know (nor would I guess anyone here would know) if that's true one way or another. What I do know is that we have never done it before but since we can reserve a few no-wait conditions in the MK for the evening we are going to try it in less than two weeks and see if it's really that much of a difference between park hopping from, say, AK to the resort to MK.


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We do it every few years (always have), have driven a few times but usually cab, however it's always only one day as even without Ex Pass we can get what we want done by mid afternoon. FP+ is wonderful for that evening.

It's kind of a "thrill" day, the HP rides are cool but not the g-force thrilling thing we go for. That said HP is now another reason we do go there though-was getting stale over there but always fun.

Still, one day is enough for us-just no "emotional connection" to anything there. HP kinda, but just not even close to our lives with Disney and its movies etc.

BUT-as for the road-even one day on occasion can only help traffic, but I have never taken more than 30 minute to get back either BLT or the BC, so if we leave at 3PM and are at the resort at 3:30-of course there is a whole night of fun left-and a great day it is. I suspect you will enjoy the mix of that day. :thumbsup2
 
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I find it odd they are still 3 "all year" actually. How can XMAS day be the same as Sept 9?
The fact that we can reach agreement on this point is proof, in and of itself, of what a great change it would be to allow additional FPs to draw people in during slower periods. :)

I think the simple answer to the question of why the limit on advance FPs is the same year round is that trying to make the limits seasonal would make the system that much harder for guests to understand.
I don't think this response is very well thought out. Stop and think about it for a moment. What pre-trip information does Disney currently give its guests about the availability and use of FP+? In what way would it be more complicated for the end user if the number were "4" instead of "3"? There are plenty of reasons why first-time users might be confused about FP+. But "4" vs "3" isn't one of them. Are they now confused because the number is "3" instead of, say, "5", or "2"? What magical properties does the number "3" have that makes confusion evaporate? Even assuming that one has already used the system and has "3" burned into their brains, all it would take is a simple: "Good News! You can now get a fourth FP+ each day during your stay!" to fill them in. And when they go on the website 60 days in advance and book their first three, (thinking that 3 is the magic number..."Four shalt thou not count, neither count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out!"), the system will immediately notify/remind them of the fact that they can book a fourth. No. You can try to look for other reasons why people should not get a fourth FP+ during the slow periods. But making the "system that much harder for guests to understand" isn't one of them.

In the slower season, the result of the lower crowds should be more availability of FPs same day and shorter standby lines. It shouldn't be necessary to give guests more FPs in advance.
In the slower seasons, Disney has been giving away Free Dining to entice people to come. While it shouldn't be necessary for people to have more FPs in order to enhance their visit, it would be a less costly way for Disney to add a perk. It costs Disney nothing, and people would feel as if they were getting something valuable in return. Would guests prefer to have FD? Sure. But this thread passed the point of "what do guests want" vs "what does Disney want" a long, long time ago. Disney definitively does not want to use FD as a carrot. This is simply a new carrot to try.

The very simple math, that I think you agree with, tells us that if guests were able to get FPs for both of these major attractions, the supply of FPs would be depleted pretty quickly, maybe even before offsite guests get their shot at them 30 days out.
Sure. They would run out. Of course I get that. But where is it written that FP allocation has to be socialistically equal? Disney doesn't believe it should. It already has a built-in inequality guarantee by making the booking dates different for on site and off site guests. Inequality and lack of availability is known to Disney because it created it. And we need look no further than A&E to see that we are already living with a system that doles out all available FPs "before offsite guests get their shot at them 30 days out". This is already happening. Disney knows it. Disney accepts it. So now we are engaged in line drawing. How much inequality is OK. Not if inequality is OK. To make things completely equal, Disney would have to cut off its attendance each day at the point where everyone could get an A&E FP. Short of that, we've crossed the Rubicon and we must accept that fact that early booking guests are going to get things that late booking guests cannot. We've established that inequality exists. We are now just trying to sort out where it should end. Sort of like the old joke whose punchline is: "We have already established what you are, madam. Now we are merely negotiating the price." For whatever reason, there are those who believe that it is OK for Disney to run out of FPs for A&E, fireworks, parades, 7DMT and a few others in advance, but it would be unthinkable for Disney to run out of FPs for Soarin' and Test Track in advance. (And in actuality, those rides are running out in advance. So the real concern is that they should not run out because the same people are getting FPs for both, as if that is some sort of crime.) Looked at another way, if you are a guest who is trying to book FPs under the current system 10 days before your visit and cannot get either Test Track of Soarin', does it matter to you whether the FPs were taken by two different sets of people, or if they were taken by one set of people who booked both? To you, that difference is irrelevant. You can pound the table and complain that 5,000 people wiped out all the FPs for Soarin' and Test Track, or you can pound the table and complain that 10,000 people wiped out all the FPs for Soarin' and Test Track. The result is the same as far as you are concerned. Tiering does not exist in order to make everyone happy. It exists to make fewer people unhappy. And there are few rules when it comes to the latter. It is not irrational to want tiering to disappear, even if one knows the end result.
 
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The fact that we can reach agreement on this point is proof, in and of itself, of what a great change it would be to allow additional FPs to draw people in during slower periods. :)

Yep I agree, but especially if they need to "entice" visitors during a recession.

I think Wis just meant in Sept-the 4th, 5th etc should be available at the kiosk anyway.

I'm just a bit more for convincing visits for slow times by the guarantee of more for sure on a schedule. But either one crushes what can be done when we visit that's for sure.

And future expansion can for sure bump the QTY-at least significant expansion could.
 
I'm just a bit more for convincing visits for slow times by the guarantee of more for sure on a schedule.
Agree 100%. It wouldn't be much of an advertising campaign in the slower months to say: "FP+?? Who needs it!!?? You'll be here when the crowds are low". Better to say: "Come join us during Extra Magic Season where you can get more FPs each day at no extra cost!"
 















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