LOST - Last Season (NO SPOILERS)

[Mrs.Toad]

2 timelines but not exactly alternate universes. When the bomb went off in 1977 the timelines diverged. Timeline 1 is what we saw and what the on-island losties are on...like WriteDisney said. What ever happened, happened.

Timeline 2 we pick up when Oceanic 815 lands at LAX in 2004. We don't know what happened on timeline 2 between the 1977 bomb and the 2004 landing. It is logical that some things changed and others stayed the same as what we saw on timeline 1. All we've seen of Timeline 2 is what we saw last night. The flashbacks and flashforwards from seasons 1-5 were all on timeline 1. At least the ones after 1977 were.

Now SOME of them could also be on timeline 2 but we don't have that info yet.

Right. Most of this makes sense to me, it's just the timeline 1 folks that don't. If the bomb went off, they'd all be dead and the island would already be at the bottom of the ocean. If the bomb either didn't go off or wasn't strong enough to kill the people near it and destroy the island, something else is going to happen that will cause the island to sink in order to set up timeline 2 where the Oceanic flight doesn't crash. But then that means the flashes to timeline 2 are still flash-forwards, and they aren't all currently at the same point in time (though on different timelines), after all.

 

[RadioNate]

Right. Most of this makes sense to me, it's just the timeline 1 folks that don't. If the bomb went off, they'd all be dead and the island would already be at the bottom of the ocean. If the bomb either didn't go off or wasn't strong enough to kill the people near it and destroy the island, something else is going to happen that will cause the island to sink in order to set up timeline 2 where the Oceanic flight doesn't crash. But then that means the flashes to timeline 2 are still flash-forwards, and they aren't all currently at the same point in time (though on different timelines), after all.

No, the jumped in time (to 2007) as the bomb went off. Jin said they did (headache, flash of white light) and it is supported by Jacob's declaration of "they're coming" as he died. We have to take what the characters say as fact.

The island is at the bottom of the ocean in timeline 2.

 

[LuvBaloo]

Lurker here. Did anybody catch what the flight attendant said, when they were at the Temple, that Jack, Kate, Hurley were on the FIRST plane flight 815. And what was on that piece of paper inside the Ankh (sp)? He asked what their names were. I'm getting a head ache just thinking about it, but wasn't it in season 2 or 3 when Ben told Walt's dad Michael to lure them to him because their names were on a list. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I need to watch it again.

I thought she said First Plane too, which made me think she knows about the second plane. When they pulled out the list from the ankh, I thought it was related to the list Michael was going off of too, but Michael's list didn't include Sayid, so then I'm not positive, because it seemed that the list had Sayid's name on it as well, and Michael's list didn't include Sayid.

 

[paintnolish]

I LOVE this show, but it makes my brain hurt sometimes. Definitely not mindless entertainment. So, I have a few questions...What was on the book they picked up from the dead body? Also, theories about the sand stuff they sprinkled to keep themselves safe?

 

[WriteDisney]

I do think Kate could die in 1976, though, because it's the alternate timeline Kate, the one that came back in time from 2007. Farraday died in, what was that, the 50's? When his own mother shot him before (to her) he was even born.

Yea, you're right. I thought about it and I must have missed the part about Jin saying he got a time travel-esque headache. So it's probably more like they time traveled to 2007. I'm guessing that in this timeline the bomb doesn't go off? Becuase the swan was still there until Desmond blew it up? Something like that? I don't understand how they can just randomly time travel like that. Maybe it was a course correcting type thing.

Oh, and how about the blood on Jack's neck in the airplane bathroom? Wonder what that was about?

And both Desmond and Jack's dad/coffin disappearing off the plane. Did they get sucked out of the plane, like Jack, Hurley, etc off the Ajira flight?

Thats a good idea. But where would they get sucked to is the question.. since the island is under water.

they all jumped to 2007 when the Ajera flight landed. Jin said they time traveled (headache/flash of white light.) Jacob told Hurley that he died "10 minutes" ago. He was killed in 2007 after Ben returned on the Ajera flight.


2 timelines but not exactly alternate universes. When the bomb went off in 1977 the timelines diverged. Timeline 1 is what we saw and what the on-island losties are on...like WriteDisney said. What ever happened, happened.

Timeline 2 we pick up when Oceanic 815 lands at LAX in 2004. We don't know what happened on timeline 2 between the 1977 bomb and the 2004 landing. It is logical that some things changed and others stayed the same as what we saw on timeline 1. All we've seen of Timeline 2 is what we saw last night. The flashbacks and flashforwards from seasons 1-5 were all on timeline 1. At least the ones after 1977 were.

Now SOME of them could also be on timeline 2 but we don't have that info yet.

Kinda like in back to the future (first movie.. def. my favorite of the three). It would be like if you imagined that how the family started (weak Dad, alcoholic Mom, etc) existed in a timeline BUT then the other timeline how he ended up (strong Dad with book deal, rich family, Biff's all weak and cowardly).. that they BOTH existed in two different parrallel timelines. I think that's how it would work. But I don't know how they would merge. I imagine this information in alternate timeline is important so I'm guessing they must merge at some point. But how?

Lurker here. Did anybody catch what the flight attendant said, when they were at the Temple, that Jack, Kate, Hurley were on the FIRST plane flight 815. And what was on that piece of paper inside the Ankh (sp)? He asked what their names were. I'm getting a head ache just thinking about it, but wasn't it in season 2 or 3 when Ben told Walt's dad Michael to lure them to him because their names were on a list. I wonder if that has anything to do with it. I need to watch it again.

First plane.. Oceanic Flight 815.. Meaning not the second plane Ajira Airways 316. I guess those are the only two she would really know about. I think we'll eventually find out but I think it just said there names and that bad things would happen if Sayid wasn't saved. So that temple people wouldn't kill them and would try and save Sayid. Meaning Jacob knew this would happen (to some extent I guess). Does that mean he knew he was going to die?

 

[LuvBaloo]

The ash/sand stuff makes me think of demons/evil gods, where they put a ring of it around something and inside the circle is "safe".

 

[Experiment_626]

Other changes aboard the plane as compared to the original pilot:

Rose isn't wearing Bernard's wedding band on her chain second time around. Not likely a continuity error, because she made a big deal about it the first time through. It was almost as if the universe knew they weren't going to be separated this time, so Rose wouldn't need to have it as a sort of talisman.

Cindy gives Jack one bottle of vodka, as opposed to two the first time. Almost as though the universe knew Jack wouldn't need the second bottle to sterilize his wounds, since the plane wasn't going to crash.

"Side Two Sayid" has an Iranian passport, not Iraqi.

Locke tells Boone of his adventures in Australia. Did this version of Locke actually get to go on his walkabout? I wouldn't have been the least bit surprised if Locke had gotten up and walked off the plane this time.

Was Claire pregnant when we see her in the taxi?

Did anybody catch what the flight attendant said, when they were at the Temple, that Jack, Kate, Hurley were on the FIRST plane flight 815.

She said that to distinguish Oceanic 815 from Ajira Airways Flight 316, which is the more recent plane on the island.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

No, the jumped in time (to 2007) as the bomb went off. Jin said they did (headache, flash of white light) and it is supported by Jacob's declaration of "they're coming" as he died. We have to take what the characters say as fact.

The island is at the bottom of the ocean in timeline 2.

Yea, I get that. I guess I don't how how to say it to make myself clear. If timeline 1 set up timeline 2, (by making the plane not crash), they are both real, so once we get to a particular point in time after the destruction of the island, it's either underwater or it's not. Based on "what happened, happened", and interviews I've read with the writers, it just doesn't make sense to me that they would set it up that the island is both underwater and not underwater at the same time.

 

[wdhinn89]

The people alive and kicking on the island are in the alternate reality or wherever that the bomb did NOT work. In that reality, the bomb didn't work, so they're still alive and well (er, not in Juliet's case) on the island.

Basically, it seems most people think that there are two realities - one where the bomb did not work (i.e. everyone is still on the island, Sun and Lapidis are probably still there in 2007 or whatever year it was -- unless they got brought back to 1977 and I missed it). The other reality is where the bomb DID work. The island was destroyed (underwater) and the plane didn't crash.

I just assumed that the bomb "blew" the Losties out of 1977 and back into the present. I also assumed that they arrived in the present at the same time (or ten minutes after) Jacob was stabbed.

So in the one timeline, everyone is back in the same time.

And I don't like the term "flash sideways" because the two timelines are not runningat the same point in time, ie 8pm on tuesday Jan 2 2010)

I thought all the people on the island were now in 2007 because when the flares were set off at the temple, Sun, Richard and the other people were able to see them. I was hoping for a Sun and Jin reunion.

 

[RadioNate]

Yea, I get that. I guess I don't how how to say it to make myself clear. If timeline 1 set up timeline 2, (by making the plane not crash), they are both real, so once we get to a particular point in time after the destruction of the island, it's either underwater or it's not. Based on "what happened, happened", and interviews I've read with the writers, it just doesn't make sense to me that they would set it up that the island is both underwater and not underwater at the same time.

but they are not the same time the are parallel times. They are 2 different times. Timeline 1 and Timeline 2.

Timeline 1 2007 = Ajera flight, Jacobs death, Losties in Temple on island
Timeline 2 2004 = island under water, Losties (the ones we saw) safe in LA, so when timeline 2 reaches 2007, they can't be on the island.

What ever happened in timeline 1 happened.
What ever happened in timeline 2 happened.

No paradox...2 separate realities that diverged from 1 reality in 1977 when the bomb went off.

Timeline 1 is not linear. It includes the first 1977-2004 that the Losties lived off island and then their return to 1977, the bomb and their jump to 2007. It also includes the Oceananic 6's off island time from 2004-2007

Timeline 2 appears to be linear.

 

[RadioNate]

I thought all the people on the island were now in 2007 because when the flares were set off at the temple, Sun, Richard and the other people were able to see them. I was hoping for a Sun and Jin reunion.

You are correct. Island time is 2007 and they are all there.

Trust what you see!

 

[brerrabbit]

Great show and I love Lost but it always frustrates me that even in its last season we still get more questions than answers. So if Hurley is the Luckiest Guy in the world then his reason for going to Australia in the alternate reality is what? He went there the first time to track down the guy about the unlucky numbers, but this time why was he there? As far as Desmond being on the plane, I think Jack was the only one who saw him. Rose said they were asleep and saw no one and he never shows back up.

They said they could fix Sayid but, it could have consiquinces is the same thing that was said when the took young Ben Linus to Richard to get healed after Sayid shot him in 1977. So does this mean that Sayid will now become a full blown Other sworn into the secret society to protect the island?

Based on what I have heard from the producers I think this season is all about the individual characters stories and their paths to redemption and personal awareness. They said that since day one the show has been about the characters stories and I think that those will be the answers we get. Who wins in the great struggle of life? Good (Jacob dressed in white) or evil (currently represented by the man in black in the form of John Locke) Will each individual character find redemption and side with Jacob or the Man in Black. The outcome of these peoples individual struggles will determine the fate of the island and by extension the fate of the world. In the end I see good winning and of all people Hurley becoming the new Jacob. I know you thought I was going to say John Locke but the one thing they have said over and over again including Jacob is that dead, is dead and Hurley is the most likely candidate still alive and kicking.

 

[AshleyW]

Yea, I get that. I guess I don't how how to say it to make myself clear. If timeline 1 set up timeline 2, (by making the plane not crash), they are both real, so once we get to a particular point in time after the destruction of the island, it's either underwater or it's not. Based on "what happened, happened", and interviews I've read with the writers, it just doesn't make sense to me that they would set it up that the island is both underwater and not underwater at the same time.

Yes, they CAN be underwater and not underwater at the same time. It's like Schrodinger's cat.

http://www.phobe.com/s_cat/s_cat.html

Basically, they're going along on a timeline. Suddenly, something happens (the bomb explodes) and the timeline splits in two. There are two things happening at the very same time, here's an image to show what I mean: (and it's stolen from wiki, just to put that out there )

So it shows the timeline splitting in two - on one timeline, the cat is alive. On the other timeline, the cat is dead. Both are happening at the same time, but the two timelines can't interact with each other.

There are clues that show you how that the timeline split - Jack had neck on his blood in the bathroom on the airplane (blood from the island), Jack was comforting Rose and then after the timeline split Rose was the one comforting Jack.

That's why they're "flash-sideways", because they're happening at the exact same time, just in different timelines or universes or whatever.

 

[Jennasis]

Yes, they CAN be underwater and not underwater at the same time. It's like Schrodinger's cat.

http://www.phobe.com/s_cat/s_cat.html

Basically, they're going along on a timeline. Suddenly, something happens (the bomb explodes) and the timeline splits in two. There are two things happening at the very same time, here's an image to show what I mean: (and it's stolen from wiki, just to put that out there )

So it shows the timeline splitting in two - on one timeline, the cat is alive. On the other timeline, the cat is dead. Both are happening at the same time, but the two timelines can't interact with each other.

There are clues that show you how that the timeline split - Jack had neck on his blood in the bathroom on the airplane (blood from the island), Jack was comforting Rose and then after the timeline split Rose was the one comforting Jack.

That's why they're "flash-sideways", because they're happening at the exact same time, just in different timelines or universes or whatever.

Mmmm...no. For it to be a true "flash sideways" we'd have to be seeing the SAME point in time on both timelines. Sort of like what they do on "24".

This is just a "Flash-into-an-alternate-reality".

 

[RadioNate]

Mmmm...no. For it to be a true "flash sideways" we'd have to be seeing the SAME point in time on both timelines. Sort of like what they do on "24".

This is just a "Flash-into-an-alternate-reality".

We are just using the term "flash" sideways because that is what the producers themselves have used. I don't think they mean that they are at the same point, just that they are on 2 different timelines rather than back and forth on the same timeline (as in season 1-5.)

It is a flash between the 2 timelines.

I really do urge everyone to read the interviews with the producers and listen to the podcast (I pray they do them this season.) They REALLY shed light on what is important and what isn't. You don't have to and will still enjoy the show but I really does help a TON. The guys are pretty entertaining too.

 

[AshleyW]

Mmmm...no. For it to be a true "flash sideways" we'd have to be seeing the SAME point in time on both timelines. Sort of like what they do on "24".

This is just a "Flash-into-an-alternate-reality".

For that to be an exactly "flash sideways", then yeah. But a flash sideways is just that - you go sideways to another timeline. Here's part of an interview Carlton Cruse does with Entertainment Weekly:

CARLTON CUSE: We thought just doing one [of those options] would inherently not be satisfying. Since the very beginning of the show, characters started crossing through each other’s stories. Part of our desire [in season 6] is to show that there’s still this kind of weave, that these characters still would have impacted each other’s lives even without the event of crashing on the Island. Obviously, the big question of the season is going to be: How do these [two timelines] reconcile? However, for the fans who have not watched the show closely, that’s an intact narrative. You can just watch the flash sideways — they stand alone all by themselves. For the fans who are more deeply embedded in the show, you can watch those flash sideways, compare them to what transpired in the flashbacks and go, “Oh, that’s an interesting difference.” ... SNIP ... It’s not as though there’s narrative that hangs on the fact that you need to know that this event was different in that world, in the flashback world versus the sideways world. That’s not critical for being able to process the narrative this season.

The timelines reconcile before the bomb goes off. That's where they are the same. The bomb goes off, and they split into two timelines that are happening at the same time. His quotes above (that I bolded) makes it sound like the flash sideways are just a flash to the sideways world.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

OK, so the theory is that time split. That does explain the island being underwater and not underwater at the same time, but I don't like it!

Like I said, not that this show typically makes perfect sense, but the time split just doesn't jive with "what happened, happened", IMO.

I hope we get some good answers, they seem to just keep raising more questions.

 

[gometros]

Great show and I love Lost but it always frustrates me that even in its last season we still get more questions than answers. So if Hurley is the Luckiest Guy in the world then his reason for going to Australia in the alternate reality is what? He went there the first time to track down the guy about the unlucky numbers, but this time why was he there? As far as Desmond being on the plane, I think Jack was the only one who saw him. Rose said they were asleep and saw no one and he never shows back up.

He obviously bought (or built) a fast food chain and has outlets in Australia, based on the guy asking him to say a line from (what I assume was a commercial) in his "Australian" accent. So he was probably just in Australia for business purpoases.

 

[RadioNate]

OK, so the theory is that time split. That does explain the island being underwater and not underwater at the same time, but I don't like it!

Like I said, not that this show typically makes perfect sense, but the time split just doesn't jive with "what happened, happened", IMO.

I hope we get some good answers, they seem to just keep raising more questions.

It does. On Timeline 1. On Timeline 1, the non-linear timeline what ever happened, happened...the time travel is non-paradoxal. What Sawyer did when he jumped back to 1977 didn't effect that time lines future because of what ever happened, happened.

The character's time lines aren't linear and always happened exactly the way we saw them. They (the non-Oceanic 6) in essence have no 2005 or 2006. -Their timeline is birth to 2004 as we saw
-the time jumps to landing in 1974 (?) on the island until 1977 when then bomb detonated
- and finally to 2007 to meet the other losties on the island.

The Oceanic 6 have a slightly different non-linear timeline because they made it off island. But I'm sure you understand that.

Timeline 2 is an entirely new timeline that was created when the bomb went off. It is the same as we saw until the split. And like I said in a PP we don't know what happened between the split and 2004. I'd assume that this timeline is linear but that is still an unknown.

 

[Experiment_626]

An observation and a prediction: Fake Locke doesn't consider Ben a threat. This will eventually prove to be a mistake. I expect that in the overall Lost story line, Ben = Gollum (or Anakin Skywalker, perhaps). He is reeling right now, but he will eventually regain his footing, and have a critical role to play before the end.