Looking to maybe join Disney Vacation Club

[Sandisw]

That isnt what I said. I said buying DVC for future resorts years away, and assuming rules will be the same, is a big assumption, even under the current rules.

Heck, Disney doesn’t even have to use the existing timeshare structure at all and could make a totally new one. Riviera has made it very clear that they are willing to change.

Everything with DVC is an assumption then. But today’s rules say that direct points will be usable at RIV and future resorts and Disney has always grandfathered points. The POS also states those points carry that distinction.

This whole discussion started about benefits of direct points and those points are the only ones currently that will give you a chance to access future resorts

Resale points do not so if you buy those today, you are going in buying knowing you will be shut out. For some, it doesn’t matter. But for others it will.

 

[RoseGold]

That poster said that direct points would allow access to future properties. That isn’t in the contracts, and isn’t promised. (And it’s many years away by the looks of the Reflections site.)

DVC has historically grandfathered people in, but they historically had APs and discounts as well. Those things were also not promised, and everyone here did math for direct purchases as if they would exist.

 

[Sandisw]

That poster said that direct points would allow access to future properties. That isn’t in the contracts, and isn’t promised. (And it’s many years away by the looks of the Reflections site.)

DVC has historically grandfathered people in, but they historically had APs and discounts as well. Those things were also not promised, and everyone here did math for direct purchases as if they would exist.

It is in the contract. I signed a document saying as such

Again, things can change and you are correct about that. But it applies to all, not just direct so if you want to consider all the what if, then consider it for DVC in general.

With that, I’ll stop since it’s a debate now and we won’t agree. Don’t want to give myself an infraction!!!!

 

[RoseGold]

It is in the contract. I signed a document saying as such.

You didn’t sign with DVC+. There’s no reason any future resort/system has to play nicely with DVC at all (except DL, which already has paperwork done).

Future resorts don’t have to use this system. Disney and DVC have been massively restructuring all their systems and there’s no reason they have to use this old system at all.

Even within this system, they can surcharge. Future resorts playing 1:1 with points is a big assumption with the way modern Disney and DVC have been acting. Heck, there could even be surprises in the VGF2 paperwork, which no one has seen yet.

 

[Sandisw]

You didn’t sign with DVC+. There’s no reason any future resort/system has to play nicely with DVC at all (except DL, which already has paperwork done).

Future resorts don’t have to use this system. Disney and DVC have been massively restructuring all their systems and there’s no reason they have to use this old system at all.

Even within this system, they can surcharge. Future resorts playing 1:1 with points is a big assumption with the way modern Disney and DVC have been acting. Heck, there could even be surprises in the VGF2 paperwork, which no one has seen yet.

All very true. And applies to buying resale DVC as well which are great points to consider for any new buyer.

 

[J-Dog]

Sorry to butt in here, but I just wanted to ask a theoretical question: it seems that all the recent recommendations are to NOT buy RIV direct due to the resale restrictions affecting future resale value. Pete on the DVC show gave buying RIV direct a "resounding no".

So, to the points being made here, it seems if BCV, BWV, etc are sold as new contracts with similar resale restrictions, and with the fair possibility that new DVC construction will have the same or similar resale restrictions, it seems to me that actually has the potential to greatly improve the future resale value of buying direct at RIV, correct?

Obviously, the "gamble" of maybe having RIV being worth more in the future due to possible resale restrictions becoming the norm may not be a reason to buy at RIV, but it if anything, it helps RIV's future value outlook, right? Or not?

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Of course they will sell new contracts to everyone. It’s about today’s points at other resort being good there in the future.

Your post is really the point I was trying to make. ResLe buyers today will be locked out of all future resorts, including any conversion of favorites like BWV, BCV.

So, just like you who thought about it..and went resale because 22 years is a long time…that aspect of owning direct was at least considered.

As already mentioned, many resorts will show up in the meantime, so it wasn’t just about 2042….that was an example of what could happen and today’s buyer should at least realize that.

It’s about direct points go beyond just using at RIV. Anyone wanting that option in the future and plan to hold for a long time, do get that benefit and that alone may outweigh the extra cost.

In your case it did not. In mine it is worth it to pay more for direct points as we do intend to own for a long time.

Aha…I just discovered the disconnect. I thought you were talking about direct vs resale at BCV/BWV. I just realized you were talking about Riviera (I think, lol), which makes a lot more sense. Riviera is the only resort I would even consider a direct purchase, because of the length of the contract and the restrictions. Those reasons don’t apply to the 2042 resorts because both resale and direct contracts will be expiring together in 2042 and the only resort at which resale is restricted from booking over the next 20 years is Riviera. But I absolutely agree that Riviera direct makes much more sense than Riviera resale.

 

[Sandisw]

Aha…I just discovered the disconnect. I thought you were talking about direct vs resale at BCV/BWV. I just realized you were talking about Riviera (I think, lol), which makes a lot more sense. Riviera is the only resort I would even consider a direct purchase, because of the length of the contract and the restrictions. Those reasons don’t apply to the 2042 resorts because both resale and direct contracts will be expiring together and the only resort resale is restricted from over the next 20 years is Riviera. But I absolutely agree that Riviera direct makes much more sense than Riviera resale.

I can’t imagine buying a 2042 direct unless it’s a small amount or you want that as a home resort but still want RIV and DL tower as options.

I do own both RiV resale and direct but RIV is my top resort and stay there at least a few nights every trip. So those resale really are part of a bigger plan since I have so many points good everywhere and will only buy direct from now on..as points restricted from just were not worth it to have and sold after a year.

 

[Drewski77]

Sorry to butt in here, but I just wanted to ask a theoretical question: it seems that all the recent recommendations are to NOT buy RIV direct due to the resale restrictions affecting future resale value. Pete on the DVC show gave buying RIV direct a "resounding no".

So, to the points being made here, it seems if BCV, BWV, etc are sold as new contracts with similar resale restrictions, and with the fair possibility that new DVC construction will have the same or similar resale restrictions, it seems to me that actually has the potential to greatly improve the future resale value of buying direct at RIV, correct?

Obviously, the "gamble" of maybe having RIV being worth more in the future due to possible resale restrictions becoming the norm may not be a reason to buy at RIV, but it if anything, it helps RIV's future value outlook, right? Or not?

Today I can buy SSR resale points and book at SSR and all legacy resorts, Rivera is the only resort I can’t book at.

If I buy Rivera resale I can book Rivera and that is it. I could buy Rivera direct but then what is that going to be worth when selling?

It will take a long, long time for new resorts to catchup with the many fantastic resorts that a non-Rivera resale buyer has access too.

And the SSR contract I just closed on (my third) saved 40% off direct pricing, so for me the benefits of resale are much better than the guaranteed and theoretical value of direct.

And the great thing: If I want to stay at Rivera or any future locked out resort I can rent points, rent my own points and pay cash, or simply pay cash…which I have a lot more of by buying resale.

 

[RoseGold]

So, to the points being made here, it seems if BCV, BWV, etc are sold as new contracts with similar resale restrictions, and with the fair possibility that new DVC construction will have the same or similar resale restrictions, it seems to me that actually has the potential to greatly improve the future resale value of buying direct at RIV, correct?

With all the work going in to Epcot, I agree, if you plan on holding long term or selling after 2042. Until then, you're up against cheap starter, short contracts at BW/BC, which will be looking appealing as a cheap entry point for short term ownership. That's a long time to hold this product. I think this math will be very interesting in 2030. I never planned to hold that long, so the resale restrictions immediately ruled out RIV for me.

There's also the Coronado 2 location, which makes a lot of sense to me and would be a similar property to RIV if the gondolas were expanded in the future. To me, gondola expansion to Coronado is an obvious project.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry to butt in here, but I just wanted to ask a theoretical question: it seems that all the recent recommendations are to NOT buy RIV direct due to the resale restrictions affecting future resale value. Pete on the DVC show gave buying RIV direct a "resounding no".

So, to the points being made here, it seems if BCV, BWV, etc are sold as new contracts with similar resale restrictions, and with the fair possibility that new DVC construction will have the same or similar resale restrictions, it seems to me that actually has the potential to greatly improve the future resale value of buying direct at RIV, correct?

Obviously, the "gamble" of maybe having RIV being worth more in the future due to possible resale restrictions becoming the norm may not be a reason to buy at RIV, but it if anything, it helps RIV's future value outlook, right? Or not?

The resale restrictions may have an impact down the road, that is for sure. But, the resort is popular and some, like me, not only bought direct but resale,

So far, the resale value is much higher than anyone predicted. Now, I am sure at some point it could settle lower. But those contracts are selling and selling pretty well given they are one resort only points.

It does come down to how important resale value is to you as a buyer. Outside of the boards, most do not place that big of a value on it.

 

[BamaGuy44]

It will take a long, long time for new resorts to catchup with the many fantastic resorts that a non-Rivera resale buyer has access too.

Especially when you consider there are already resorts in all the desirable locations at WDW. In theory there could be another monorail resort eventually, and eventually the skyliner could expand and improve to the point that resorts on it are very desirable. And in 2042 we might have 2 "new" resorts where BWV and BCV are. But those are all a long way off, if ever.

Possible new resorts don't really factor into my valuing of points. I do love RIV so I may consider a small direct contract somewhere so I have the option of a few days at RIV some trips.

 

[Paul Stupin]

Big assumption, which isn’t even promised in the current resorts. BVTC can do a lot of things. They can completely remove resorts. They can surcharge for non-home points. They don’t even need a new club to surcharge the heck out of legacy owners.

RIV has made it very clear that DVC is willing to change the model. There’s no reason RIV can’t charge 20% more points for non-home points starting tomorrow.

Buying for some theoretical future resort, obviously years away at this point, is assuming a lot that doesn’t match what you signed.

I don’t think future resorts are all together that theoretical. DLT will open in 2023. And sooner or later there‘s bound to be new WDW resort construction. I think it’s a pretty safe bet I’ll want to stay there, but for now I’m fine with Riviera.
Re: DVC changing the rules on direct points, I think a more accurate assumption would be that any changes would benefit direct points owners at the expense of resale owners. That’s their strategy, not the reverse.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Especially when you consider there are already resorts in all the desirable locations at WDW.

Except they built AKL in just about the most geographically undesirable location on property and it’s got absolutely the least efficient and fewest transportation options of any resort.

Having said that….savanna. If Disney wants “desirable”, they’ll simply create it. Wherever they want.

 

[rubybutt]

The first one has to be 150 as that is the minimum. They have been doing that for awhile now. Beyond the 150, they will all it.

Unless it is a fixed week.

 

[BamaGuy44]

Except they built AKL in just about the most geographically undesirable location on property and it’s got absolutely the least efficient and fewest transportation options of any resort.

Having said that….savanna. If Disney wants “desirable”, they’ll simply create it. Wherever they want.

They're not all in super desirable locations, what I'm saying is all the really good spots are taken. Having the savanna doesn't make AKL as desirable as the monorail resorts, location 100% matters.

Not that some people don't consider AKL their favorite of course. I'm just saying they will have a hard time putting a resort at WDW that I would get much FOMO over. And if they do it will be a long time from now. But that's me. Maybe I give more weight to location than others.

 

[Sandisw]

Unless it is a fixed week.

Those contracts will be less…but does the buyer still need to get to 150?

 

[DonMacGregor]

They're not all in super desirable locations, what I'm saying is all the really good spots are taken. Having the savanna doesn't make AKL as desirable as the monorail resorts, location 100% matters.

Not that some people don't consider AKL their favorite of course. I'm just saying they will have a hard time putting a resort at WDW that I would get much FOMO over. And if they do it will be a long time from now. But that's me. Maybe I give more weight to location than others.

And what I'm saying is that prior to building AKL, you would have said that a resort there would be a terrible location. Heck, people say that Coronado Springs is a crappy location still. Hell, in 1965 you'd have questioned building anywhere within the confines of what is now WDW. Disney has artificially created each and very location on WDW property. Location is relative to what is there already, and what is planned to be built in the future, and that is 100% a blank canvas for Disney.

Saying "all the really good spots are taken" suggests Disney has simply played out the hand they were dealt. None of the "really good spots" existed until Disney formed them out of swamp land. Each and every one was created out of nothing, and Disney can make more spots at will, just like they did before.

 

[rubybutt]

Those contracts will be less…but does the buyer still need to get to 150?

yes. I got a 120 and a 130 fixed week at RIV. So you have to get to 150 but the individual contracts are smaller than 150. What would be interesting is if I sell one of the contracts would I still get a blue card? The agent said no, but I have my suspicions. We don't plan on selling though, so I am indifferent.

 

[Sandisw]

yes. I got a 120 and a 130 fixed week at RIV. So you have to get to 150 but the individual contracts are smaller than 150. What would be interesting is if I sell one of the contracts would I still get a blue card? The agent said no, but I have my suspicions. We don't plan on selling though, so I am indifferent.

If the blue card minimum was 150 when you bought, and sell one, you will lose it.

I had a contract that qualified me for a blue card in my Dec UY membership snd lost it when I sold that contract.

So, we do know that happens.