Looking for some opinions for a newbie

[LisaR]

I have a 14 y/o son that is NOT motivated in the slightest. He just isn't. It isn't for lack of effort on my end!

He has been taking a photography class for a few months now using his point and shoot camera. After class last week, my son initiated this conversation:

"Mom, I was thinking about starting my own business. I think I would like to become better at photography and start a little business on the side taking family pictures like we had done." (Twice now we have hired someone to take family pictures and they give us a disc with a couple dozen shots on it that we can print.)

"I don't want to be a photographer or anything but since I want to major in business anyway, and I already like photography, I might as well start with something I like."

Who is this kid? Seriously, this is a huge breakthrough for him.

Obviously I want to support him but I don't want to spend a boatload of money on something he may change his mind about sooner rather than later.

On the other hand, I don't want to get something cheap that he will become frustrated with.

I am not really thinking long term here with the business aspect of his plan. If that pans out, I would be more than willing to get him better equipment but I don't want to go overboard right now.

I don't have a price in mind because I don't know what I am looking for.

Would I be stupid to buy something off of Ebay or Craigslist?

Amazon has a Nikon D3000 for $429 that gets good reviews and says it is a good entry level camera. Is something like that enough right now or will we regret something that cheap?

Any info you can provide would be greatly appreciated!

 

[thehowells]

the d3000 is a very good beginner camera, and takes really nice photos, but it has it's limits, if he just is interested in portraits, and such, as long as the lighting is good, no problem, mabey a nice portrait lens.
i'll post a couple of my pics, now i don't edit my photos at all (i don't really know how)

[/IMG]

now you don't have listed where you live, i'm assuming the states, but there are many reputable camera shops and chains that also sell used cameras, and you many get some warranty with it as well

 

[thehowells]

so there is a idea, all shot with d3000 and 55-200mm lens that came with package, untouched

 

[photo_chick]

You can't go wrong with any of the DSLR's on the market right now. However, the cheapest models don't necessarily give you the most camera for your dollar right now. You have to balance the features you want, the price you can afford, with what feels comfortable in your hands.

 

[WDWFigment]

This might sound harsh, but in my opinion, you get better at photography BEFORE opening the business. Using a DSLR is substantially different than a point and shoot, and it would be a disservice to both your son and potential customers if he started using a DSLR at the same time as accepting customers.

Get him an entry level DSLR first, make sure he learns a good amount about using the camera, and then see if the business idea still makes sense.

 

[thehowells]

very stongly agree with the above point, as i heard in a outdoor photography seminar, the easiest way to make money with your camera is to sell it

it is a very competitive market outhere and centainly not fair to take someone's money if they can't provide the goods, HOWEVER, don't discourage your son either, if he is showing intrest, help how you can

 

[LisaR]

This might sound harsh, but in my opinion, you get better at photography BEFORE opening the business. Using a DSLR is substantially different than a point and shoot, and it would be a disservice to both your son and potential customers if he started using a DSLR at the same time as accepting customers.

Get him an entry level DSLR first, make sure he learns a good amount about using the camera, and then see if the business idea still makes sense.

Maybe you misunderstood or I didn't make it clear enough but my son specifically said he wanted to learn to become a better photographer so he could turn it into a side business. Both of us are well aware that he isn't going to get a camera tomorrow and have a business the next day. He wants to take additional photography classes and the ones being offered require a DSLR versus the class he takes right now where a P & S is acceptable. I also specifically said that I WASN'T focusing on the business aspect of his plan at this point.

 

[Frantasmic]

It is near the holiday gift giving time, so there will be plenty of places offering a decent camera with two lenses. These will probably give you the most bang for you buck.

I would think the best way to start is to find places that need free photography: schools, churches, charities, etc. Find a small private school where you may know some families and volunteer to take pictures during sporting events, plays, etc.

Any of the entry level dslrs would be good for doing this. There are definitely different camera brands to choose from. There are all levels of users, both experience-wise and equipment-wise, on these boards. There isn't a magic camera that fits your needs.

The main thing I would be concerned with is a sudden change in interest by your son. My son has gone through 3 different music instruments this year alone, so I understand what you are stating.

If you would like to go a used route, you could see if a Canon XSi or 50D is available, or a Nikon D80 or D90. These cameras, while a few years older, still were/are very good cameras spec-wise and you should be able to find a good deal on them. Also, check the canon or nikon or sony or xx website and see if manufacturers offer reconditioned cameras. Adorama.com and bhphotovideo.com also occasionally have reconditioned or used cameras. Finally, camera/lens rental companies occasionally place their "used" items for sale on their websites too.

 

[LisaR]

Thehowells, Thanks for posting the great pics!

Frantasmic, Thanks for the links!

I went to two local camera stores today. I could not get waited on in one. They appeared to only have higher end models in stock anyway.

The guy at the other store was really nice! He also carried a lot of higher end cameras. His only entry level cameras were a Sony for $449 (can't remember the model #) and a Canon Rebel T3 for $549. He said the $100 difference between the two was significant based on quality. He felt the Canon would be more than sufficient for someone starting out. The store also offers quite a few types of photography classes and you get a free one if you buy one of their cameras.

To reiterate, DS is definitely NOT starting a business or recruiting clients anytime in the foreseeable future (if ever). I am simply excited that he is thinking about something other than video games!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Hi Lisa

The Community Board has nothing on the Photography Board as far as controversial subjects go. You have inadvertently managed to hit on a few of them with your posts here, lol.

To sort of agree with Frantasmic's point, I also have a 14yo son and I've been teaching him photography since he was 9 or 10. He is the proud owner of my entire first dSLR setup - easily $1K+ worth of equipment. Is he good at photography? Sure is. Does he enjoy photography? Sure does. Does he use the camera I gave him? Not really. He likes to use mine when he wants to shoot, and of course he does: it's a new and improved model, heck yeah! (We've currently lent his setup to a friend who's thinking of buying one and wanted to try it out.)

I also understand what Figment was trying to say, as the business aspect of things is a whole other controversial topic. I think he was also saying it's good to know with some certainty where you're headed with this because photography burns a big hole in your pocket, and not just with the initial camera purchase. There is so much else you end up buying. It winds up being a very big investment, so it's good to get an idea of whether that's really something you want to get into before you get into it. (Or in other words, know what you're getting into before you start to purchase.) It's also a huge investment of time learning photography and, looking further down the road, paying customers expect really good pictures and there are a lot of issues to consider when you're responsible for capturing special memories for people. That's all I'll say about that right now...

All of that's not to say he won't enjoy learning on an entry level dSLR. He probably will. There is a lot to learn, especially if you want to get halfway decent at it. The biggest thing he'll need to do, besides some initial time spent learning the camera, principles of photography and software use, is to get out and shoot. Lots. In many different places and under a variety of circumstances and conditions. At some point he will realize the kit lenses that come with the camera will not adequately capture all the types of shots he wants to get, like low light and/or sports, etc, and he will want/need to buy some additional lenses. Some of these can cost $500 or more each. He will also want a tripod, an external flash, extra batteries and cards, filters, and of course he'll need a good, solid camera bag. (Cha ching!)

I think the cameras you mentioned would be fine. I'd also want to sit down with him and discuss other things, such as does he mind carrying a substantial camera bag around with him every time he wants to take pictures? (Hey, I have seen it happen. I was on a boat this summer with a high schooler who was running around taking shots of everything with a dSLR and driving his friends crazy. He was really into it and I was glad to see it. ) If not, you might look into one of the newer mirrorless cameras. They can function like a dSLR but they are smaller and easier to carry. Something to be aware of and at least look into before you purchase. He can always build on that later. HTH!

 

[LisaR]

Hi Lisa

The Community Board has nothing on the Photography Board as far as controversial subjects go. You have inadvertently managed to hit on a few of them with your posts here, lol.

Who knew I could cause problems on a board about photography?

Thanks for all the great info! Doubt anything will come of this but it is just fantastic to see him finally thinking about earning money instead of spending mine!

Found some great photography classes that he is looking forward to. That will be a start. Small steps with him. I'm not in any rush but I figured with Christmas coming up, this might be a good direction to go in. Maybe we can actually move up from Game Stop gift cards to an actual gift this year.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

it is just fantastic to see him finally thinking about earning money instead of spending mine!

Understood! We were looking at used lawnmowers this year when DS started mowing around the neighborhood (he broke ours on his first job ). It was pretty funny seeing him walking in the house with dirt and grass trimmings all over him saying how tired he was. (Welcome to our world!) Hey, it's always good for them to be thinking about ways they can earn money.

 

[Sam241]

The Nikon D3000 is a good entry level DSLr but remember it's also more then a few years old. The D3100 is the new entry level Nikon (It's what I use) and it can be bought for almost the same price.

Really research the camera you are thinking about getting prior to buying it. Make sure it has all the features or the majority of the features you want. HDR shooting is really popular right now and neither the D3000 or the D3100 offer bracketing (You can do it manually but it's more difficult).


All in all remember the camera is only a small part of what makes a photograph great. You can have the greatest camera in the world but if you don't practice and work on your skill your photos will still suck.

Encourage your son everyday to take pictures of anything and everything. You can never have enough encouragement and you can never hear the words "You are doing great" and "I believe in you" enough times.


I wish you and your son the best in getting started in photography

 

[WDWFigment]

Who knew I could cause problems on a board about photography?

Thanks for all the great info! Doubt anything will come of this but it is just fantastic to see him finally thinking about earning money instead of spending mine!

Found some great photography classes that he is looking forward to. That will be a start. Small steps with him. I'm not in any rush but I figured with Christmas coming up, this might be a good direction to go in. Maybe we can actually move up from Game Stop gift cards to an actual gift this year.

I wouldn't say it was anything controversial, and I certainly didn't intend to come across as rude in my other post (and I know no matter how I preface it, it's going to come across as rude to some degree or another). I think kids getting into photography is a great thing. That said, I've seen enough people buy their first DSLR and think that automatically makes them a professional wedding photographer. I shudder at thinking about how many unsuspecting couples have had their wedding photos ruined because they didn't understand that their $500 "total package" photographer had no clue how to manage a wedding, use lighting, etc. If you think this bothers me (it doesn't), you should see how upset this makes the real photographers around here!

To another potentially "controversial" point (not intended as such, but again, when you say certain things, they're going to come across that way to some degree), why not make your son pay for the camera? He might be more likely to take it a little more seriously or give the decision more thought or 'try harder' if his own money is at stake. Alternatively, maybe give him a 'loan' to pay for the camera that you expect repaid gradually? I'm not a parent, and certainly am not intending to give parenting advice, but when my parents made me pay for large purchases on my own, I certainly gave the purchases a lot more consideration than I otherwise might have.

 

[DoleWhipDVC]

Hi Lisa

All of that's not to say he won't enjoy learning on an entry level dSLR. He probably will. There is a lot to learn, especially if you want to get halfway decent at it. The biggest thing he'll need to do, besides some initial time spent learning the camera, principles of photography and software use, is to get out and shoot. Lots. In many different places and under a variety of circumstances and conditions. At some point he will realize the kit lenses that come with the camera will not adequately capture all the types of shots he wants to get, like low light and/or sports, etc, and he will want/need to buy some additional lenses. Some of these can cost $500 or more each. He will also want a tripod, an external flash, extra batteries and cards, filters, and of course he'll need a good, solid camera bag. (Cha ching!)

This is great because I'm going through the same basic issue. What to buy for a "budding" newbie. This statement from Pea is really something to think about, which I really hadn't. This scenario happened to me, exactly as she said. First a new lens, then a speedlight...ooohhhh I really could get better shots with a tripod (and a wide angle lens). Rats, now I need a new bag for those 4 lenses I've got. Hmmm, back up batteries would be nice - with a charger of course. Next thing you know...addiction!! But hey, it's great when someone wants to pursue a passion. Frankly, I've got a long way to go and much to learn myself. I'm leaning toward the Rebel T3i with kit lenses included for my prodigy. But I'll wait for the big holiday sales before purchasing. Best of luck on your journey!

 

[LisaR]

I wouldn't say it was anything controversial, and I certainly didn't intend to come across as rude in my other post (and I know no matter how I preface it, it's going to come across as rude to some degree or another). I think kids getting into photography is a great thing. That said, I've seen enough people buy their first DSLR and think that automatically makes them a professional wedding photographer. I shudder at thinking about how many unsuspecting couples have had their wedding photos ruined because they didn't understand that their $500 "total package" photographer had no clue how to manage a wedding, use lighting, etc. If you think this bothers me (it doesn't), you should see how upset this makes the real photographers around here!

To another potentially "controversial" point (not intended as such, but again, when you say certain things, they're going to come across that way to some degree), why not make your son pay for the camera? He might be more likely to take it a little more seriously or give the decision more thought or 'try harder' if his own money is at stake. Alternatively, maybe give him a 'loan' to pay for the camera that you expect repaid gradually? I'm not a parent, and certainly am not intending to give parenting advice, but when my parents made me pay for large purchases on my own, I certainly gave the purchases a lot more consideration than I otherwise might have.

No biggie. Again, I assure everyone that my son isn't and may never start a photography business of any kind. He is interested and I want to help him pursue it. Nothing more! I won't go into paragraphs upon paragraphs describing my son because it would bore you but, believe me, this is a HUGE step for him. If he is thinking ahead, I will support him as much as possible.

 

[WDWFigment]

No biggie. Again, I assure everyone that my son isn't and may never start a photography business of any kind. He is interested and I want to help him pursue it. Nothing more! I won't go into paragraphs upon paragraphs describing my son because it would bore you but, believe me, this is a HUGE step for him. If he is thinking ahead, I will support him as much as possible.

Fair enough! Good luck to him!!!

 

[krb2g]

Even if you do end up buying used, I'd recommend getting your son into a camera store to try the cameras himself. You always hear things like "the best tripod is the one you have with you." Your son won't get good pictures unless he has a camera that he's comfortable carrying around and using, so you want your son to pick the camera he's most comfortable with (some people prefer Nikons, some prefer Canons, some prefer Sonys, some prefer other brands). All these major brands offer great cameras and systems, so the initial choice depends a lot on user preference. Once you get started with one brand though, it becomes more expensive to switch to another (if I wanted to upgrade my entry-level Nikon with a more advanced Canon, I'd also have to replace 2 lenses beyond the kit lens and an external flash at the moment). I'd also let your son bear the heavy lifting of the research. Of course it's good that you're doing this research as you're planning on buying the camera, but one of the first steps to becoming a good photographer is knowing your equipment, and for me, that process starts long before I hold whatever it is I'm adding in my hot little hands.

 

[chrisney]

Just something to consider...while the camera body is important, it is the piece of your kit which is most commonly upgraded, at least once you acquire the lens range you want. A good lens is a more forever piece, and they do not come cheap. If he is looking at a business you should expect to need to cover a decent range, with low light capabilities (something you should also consider in your camera body). I do shoot professionally; word of mouth advertising only, and I pick and choose what to shoot. It's fun, it's rewarding personally, but it isn't terribly profitable. Most of what I make I roll back into equipment upgrades. It's not just the camera and lens collection either...think flash(es), tripod, photo editing software, a good monitor and calibration equipment, and more.