Looking for a teaching job? Rhode Island is hiring 74 at one school!

[disykat]

They did refuse, that's the point.
A 'no' vote is a refusal.

I obviously don't know the ins and outs of this situation, but I know teachers here can vote no on a contract change and still work.

 

[golfgal]

I live in RI and have been watching this unfold. Central Falls is one square mile and the densely populated area in the state. It is arguably the poorest area in the state. The graduation rate at the high school is 48%. There are 19 year old "kids" in classes with 14 yr olds. More than 70% of the students are Latino, many of whom come from homes where Engligh is a second language. I am not really going to get into the politics of all of this, but I will leave you with this......the teachers at the high school earn between $70,000 - $78,000 while the median household income in the city is $22,000........

The article says the teachers average $60,000/year.

You obviously didn't do all of your research because they were offered $30/hour for the 2 weeks of professional development they were asked to attend in the summer and $30/hour for the 90 minutes of common planning time during the week. The union wanted the teachers to be compensated $90/hour There were a few extras they were asked to do that they would not be compensated for but guess what, there are a lot of people out there doing the jobs of 2 people but they are not complaining because they are happy to have a job. I used to be a government employee and when grant funding was cut, so were positions. A lot of my colleagues absorbed the workload of people who left because it was that or lose your job. I can tell you one thing, there is not a lot of sympathy for these teachers in this state with our unemployment rate at 12.9%.....

Do you have a source for these offered wages??? I find it VERY hard to believe that the union would ask for $90/hour for this.

 

[kpm76]

Here's the source (Providence Journal) that indicates the union tried to negitiate a $90/hour "per diem" (in other words, anything over and above)

http://newsblog.projo.com/2010/02/money-a-sticking-point-in-tran.html

And here's the source that indicates the salaries are actually between $70,000 - $78,000. I also had someone who works with the schools verify that the median salary for a teach at the high school is $75,000

http://www.businessgaze.com/unioniz...inutes-more-per-day-so-town-fires-all-of-them


I am not anti-teacher. In fact, I am guessing many of the teachers probably wanted to agree to the concessions but the union did not allow for that. The good teachers work very hard and deserve to be compensated appropriately. It's just hard to have sympathy for this situation when they had options but wanted more. Our state is not in a good way financially and our unemplyment rate is among the highest in the country. I would guess that any good teacher would want to do anything they could to try to turn an underperforming school around.

 

[kpm76]

I'm guessing the $60,000 figure is district wide; the teachers at the high school make between $70,000 - $78,000......

 

[golfgal]

Here's the source (Providence Journal) that indicates the union tried to negitiate a $90/hour "per diem" (in other words, anything over and above)

http://newsblog.projo.com/2010/02/money-a-sticking-point-in-tran.html

And here's the source that indicates the salaries are actually between $70,000 - $78,000. I also had someone who works with the schools verify that the median salary for a teach at the high school is $75,000

http://www.businessgaze.com/unioniz...inutes-more-per-day-so-town-fires-all-of-them


I am not anti-teacher. In fact, I am guessing any of the teachers probably wanted to agree to agree to the concessions but the union did not allow for that. The good teachers work very hard and deserve to be compensated appropriately. It's just hard to have sympathy for this situation when they had options but wanted more. Our state is not in a good way financially and our unemplyment rate is among the highest in the country. I would guess that any good teacher would want to do anything they could to try to turn an underperforming school around.

It looks to me that the reporter got their facts wrong. You can't have an hourly "per diam" rate. It is probably more accurately $90/DAY for that training which is MORE then fair-$30 is not. I was wrong about the time--they are being asked to work 2 1/2 HOURS longer each day with no pay and losing an hour of prep time/week, which is another hour at home they have to work to make up for that time.

As for the union allowing the teachers to agree or not, unions can certainly make recommendations but each individual teacher still votes. They knew the consequences of their actions according to the article.

The whole country is not well off right now, it isn't just your state and you are better off then a LOT of states.

 

[mtomlin66]

Usually "per diem" means per day.

 

[kpm76]

The union wanted teachers to be compensated an $90/hour for anything done above and beyond their contract. The district was offering $30/hour. The article states that clearly. I think the use of per diem was confusing because it is in fact per hour.

I am well aware that there are other states facing tough times but if we are talking jobless rate, which is most relevant here, only Michigan tops RI. Trust me, it's not an argument I wish I was making. In addition, our deficient is such that aid to cities and towns has been cut. There simply is no more money to be had......

 

[golfgal]

The union wanted teachers to be compensated an $90/hour for anything done above and beyond their contract. The district was offering $30/hour. The article states that clearly. I think the use of per diem was confusing because it is in fact per hour.

I am well aware that there are other states facing tough times but if we are talking jobless rate, which is most relevant here, only Michigan tops RI. Trust me, it's not an argument I wish I was making. In addition, our deficient is such that aid to cities and towns has been cut. There simply is no more money to be had......

I would disagree that it is "fact" that it is a per hour rate. I think it is more accurately a per diem as that is typically how these things are paid out. Coaches, etc. are not paid by the hour, they are giving a flat rate for a season, for example.

 

[FireDancer]

How would you respond if your boss said you now have to work an hour a day longer and you lose your lunch break, oh, but we aren't going to pay you any more--nevermind that they are already working more then they are contracted for and not getting paid for THAT either.

In the current economic climate it is not uncommon for people to do just that. I had to take a 5% pay cut this year along with taking on additional responsibilities. Working more for less pay is even worse then working more for the same pay. It isn't idea but you suck it up, do your best to turn the company (or school) around, and hope to get the time or money back once you do so.

I completely agree that the parents have to take some of the responsibility and the amount of money you make should not matter. Growing up our family barely made ends meet and there were months that the mortgage only got paid because we ate canned soup for a week instead of anything better. But my parents (mostly my mom) would sit there and make us do our homework and instilled in us that the best way to not have lives like that when we grew up was to get a good education and a good job.

It sounds like neither the teachers nor the parents are taking the bull by the horns in this neighborhood. Sometimes you have to suck it up and take a temporary hit. If the people under me at work don't perform it reflects bad on me and over time it will cost me a raise or my job. It is up to me to motivate them to do better. It is similar for a teacher, they have to motivate the students the same way a manager motivates their employee. It sure isn't always easy but it has to be done.

In school systems with bad numbers it is partly because of the faculty and the parents. In a school system with good numbers it is party because of the faculty and the parents. It cuts both ways and they have to work together.

 

[CowboyCO]

"per diem"

adv.
By the day; per day.

adj.

1. Reckoned on a daily basis; daily.
2. Paid by the day.

n., pl., per diems.
An allowance for daily expenses.

$30 per diem would be $3.75/hr for an 8 hour day for the training. $90 a day, which the union wanted, would be only $11.25/hour.

The problems with this school are likely socio-economic, not with the teachers. They can gas the teachers, hire new ones and they'll still be lucky to graduate 50%. In our schools, you never know when the illegals will just up and leave, which counts against your graduation rate.

 

[Muushka]

I have worked in the medical field on a per diem basis. I was paid a rate by the hour.
I know the term means per day, but in reality they can also pay it by the hour.

But Gallo said she could pay teachers for only some of the extra duties. Union leaders said they wanted teachers to be paid for more of the additional work and at a higher pay rate — $90 per hour rather than the $30 per hour offered by Gallo.

http://www.projo.com/news/content/central_falls_trustees_vote_02-24-10_EOHI83C_v59.3c21342.html
It's pretty clear, it is by the hour. They wanted $90 an hour to do their jobs, which they should have been doing in the first place.

I hope that this is a wake up call for anyone holding a gov job.

 

[Kathi OD]

As for the union allowing the teachers to agree or not, unions can certainly make recommendations but each individual teacher still votes. They knew the consequences of their actions according to the article.

That's not necessarily the case. If the union didn't present the proposal to the rank-and-file, there was no vote. It was my understanding that there was no vote by the rank-and-file.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

What does this have to do with it? They are being blamed for the lack of performance at the school then asked to work longer hours for NO more pay and they will STILL be the fall guy when the test scores don't improve next year either-all for nothing. Sorry, I wouldn't do it either.

I see this argument OFTEN for teachers.

That is one substantial salary.

If a salaried "layperson" posted on this very board that their boss wanted them to work an extra half hour a day--they'd be told to suck it up to their salaried life and deal with it.

It makes no sense to me and it is a very common gripe. But most other salaried folks in the "non-education" world--don't cry foul over 2.5 hours a week of work extra.

Now if they were paid by the hour--I'd get it. But they are not. It is a salary based on educating a group of kids over the course of the school year. Their very nice salary is extremely revelant when they complain and cry foul.

 

[HeatherC]

I will say that I haven't read through all the posts but have been following this on the news and have family living in RI. (South County).

I'm thinking...ok, fine...fire all the teachers. But I also think the superintendent and the principal should go as well. They should be held accountable for this debacle as well.

You hear stories like this and it makes you realize why more and more people are homeschooling.

 

[ccgirl]

As others said, this is a very underperforming school district. Unfortunately, there is little parental involvement. Employees are being asked all the time to take pay cuts and take on more work without the pay increase. If you say no, you are shown the door because there are many other people just itching for a job! I recently had to take a $10,000 pay cut and increase my work day by 1 hour each day but I AM THANKFUL I HAVE A JOB. Sometimes, I think unions do more harm than good!!! They voted to not extend their day and not to eat lunch with the students. I think maybe the school was trying to help the teachers build a rapport with the students??? I think they were too confident in their jobs and didn't think the superintendent would follow through. Hopefully, the new teachers will be willing to do whatever it takes. Will it improve? Only time will tell but something obviously had to change. By the way, the teachers can re-apply for their jobs but no more than 50% can be hired back. The principal was fired as well.

 

[daughtersrus]

s. But I also think the superintendent and the principal should go as well. They should be held accountable for this debacle as well.

 

[eliza61]

Great plan
Fire 74 experienced teachers, who probably have decades of experience teaching (I'll give them the few who were probably lousy) bring in 74 new, inexperienced teachers to perform at a under achieving school (and yes they will all be inexperienced because there are not many experienced teachers who would willing take a job in a inner city, low achieving H.S) Instead of trying to find a amicable solution. I'm willing to bet good money in 3 years, test scores will not have improved and the majority of those new teachers you've hired will be gone, if not to new schools then to totally new careers.
Sounds like a great plan.

If this school is not performing, eating lunch with the kids is not going to do a flippin thing to turn those scores around.
25% of the kids in this school speak english as a second language. Oh yeah that lunch date is gonna be a big help.
96% are from below poverty level homes (eligable for free lunches) so also willing to bet not getting much support from home.
School itself is like so many other inner city schools, old falling apart and in the middle of a crime infested neighborhood.

Another feel good solution that won't change a ding dang thing.

 

[daughtersrus]

Does anyone know how much the principal, superintendent and the other administrators make in this district?

I'm just curious. In IL, the information is public record and there's a website where you can find that out.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I live in RI. Quite familiar with Central Falls, unfortunately. MY DH's office (in a manufacturing co) is there. I remember when he first started working there, 22 years ago, hearing the police sirens over the phone when I talked to him. Whenever he works late, I worry about him alone in the parking lot.

Years ago, Central Falls was dubbed the cocaine capital of the United States. Here's a little insight into the city:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...fIhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=e9UEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1279,1303808

As a teacher (which I am), I would not want to be one of the "new" teachers hired--

As a parent, I would feel uncomfortable with the education my child would be receiving with that many new teachers.

I wouldn't want to be one of the new teachers hired because I'd worry about retaliation, like for someone crossing a picket line.

It would be nice if there were "parents" concerned about ANY aspect of some of these kids' lives. I think the problem, first and foremost, is with their home lives. I do think that the schools can be a positive influence, if the kids get there at all. I had a friend who taught kindergarten in CF many years ago. On any given day, less than half the class attended. She spent quite a bit of time trying to track down parents. She got hold of a grandmother one time who ranted and raved, dropping "foul language" left and right, that she told her daughter not to have so many kids, and that her daughter couldn't get her child to the bus in the morning with all those other kids to "take care of" (IF that's what she was really doing).

How would you respond if your boss said you now have to work an hour a day longer and you lose your lunch break, oh, but we aren't going to pay you any more--nevermind that they are already working more then they are contracted for and not getting paid for THAT either.

Been there, done that, back in my working days. I worked for a major manufacturing company as a Financial Analyst after I graduated from college, and we were pretty much told in the beginning of our busy, planning season, not to expect to see daylight...literally...for weeks. Almost daily, we went in when it was still dark, we left when it was dark. I worked ALL night, well into the next day, one time. I dropped in on the way to visit my sister 90 miles away, and ended up having to work, because that's what you did to get the job done.

I live in RI and have been watching this unfold. Central Falls is one square mile and the densely populated area in the state. It is arguably the poorest area in the state. The graduation rate at the high school is 48%. There are 19 year old "kids" in classes with 14 yr olds. More than 70% of the students are Latino, many of whom come from homes where Engligh is a second language. I am not really going to get into the politics of all of this, but I will leave you with this......the teachers at the high school earn between $70,000 - $78,000 while the median household income in the city is $22,000........

Sometimes, I think unions do more harm than good!!! They voted to not extend their day and not to eat lunch with the students. I think maybe the school was trying to help the teachers build a rapport with the students???

I agree about unions!

And I agree about the teachers building a rapport with the students during lunch. That's why inner-city cops go and play basketball with kids. Neither is going to turn around a bad situation by itself. But if the kids can see a teacher/cop as a friend, or a confidant, or as someone who cares and isn't just there to dump tests on them or haul them off to jail, then why not?

If this school is not performing, eating lunch with the kids is not going to do a flippin thing to turn those scores around. 25% of the kids in this school speak english as a second language. Oh yeah that lunch date is gonna be a big help.
96% are from below poverty level homes (eligable for free lunches) so also willing to bet not getting much support from home.
School itself is like so many other inner city schools, old falling apart and in the middle of a crime infested neighborhood.

Another feel good solution that won't change a ding dang thing.

I don't think ANYONE is claiming that eating lunch with kids is going to turn their lives and their education around, as I said above. I do think it can help build a rapport with the students, which has to be a step in the right direction. Maybe the ESL students would benefit from a casual conversation during lunch with someone who DOES speak English. Maybe those students who aren't getting support from home will feel a bond with a teacher they talked to at lunch and feel they have someone to turn to.

It's hardly THE ONLY THING that needs to be done...no one is patting themselves on the back because they came up with this ONE SOLUTION of eating lunch with the kids as a cure-all. But, I DO think it has potential, along with other changes, and that no one knows if it will work if they don't try it.

 

[PeterPan09]

I'm not a teacher, but I do have friends that teach and that 30 minute lunch period is their sanity break. It's the few minutes they have when they are "off stage" and can relax a little. I can certainly understand teachers not wanting to give that up.

Having said that, I do think that if your school (business) is failing, then expecting you to do something extra without compensation is not something that is unusual. Adding 20 minutes or so to the instructional time is not something that I would consider unreasonable.