Long Vent About The Latest Girl Scout Council Problems

[DISshopkeeper]

GSL, I KNOW you weren't soliciting donations. But I've been in your boat and want to help a bit!!

Edited to add: YOU didn't ask for donations, I did!!

 

[Boo'sMom]

Originally posted by DISshopkeeper
GSL, I KNOW you weren't soliciting donations. But I've been in your boat and want to help a bit!!

Edited to add: YOU didn't ask for donations, I did!!

BTDT....know how difficult it can be to provide a program for the kids (well, gee...there's a novel idea )


I'd be happy to help out in my own small way...consider it spreading the spirit of scouting....

 

[Girls Scout Leader]

I saw a few of the girls this afternoon, and told them about the support I got here. They thought it's funny, we get more support from strangers than our organization. Most of them are very aware of "my dis boards" and I passed on everyone's good wishes. They are rather disillusioned about the whole thing and are getting quite discouraged. You guys brightened them up.
Thanks.

I really REALLY hope I get to meet a Dis'er while there to pass along a big hug.

~~Penny~~

 

[Girls Scout Leader]

Oh! And to all those who are PM-*** me , I will sned you a post office box that we recieve our Service Unit mail at. Not for donations, but a note of encouragement would be appreciatd!

 

[CarolA]

I have given this advice before, but.... you (and the girls for that matter) need to go meet with your council president/ED. Do not take no for a response. You can always just go to the office and have a "sit in". This really needs to be a face to face meeting! As I read this all communication has been with the membership specialist. Since you know there is a problem there you need to take action. (You don't think she is going to turn herself in as having a communication issue do you? She is only human!) I recommend taking the girls just to remind the ED/President what is going on. If after that you still feel you have problems. Call GSUSA in New York and ask for your area rep.


Now, I am going to get myself slammed but..... I used to approve travel for all scouts in our area. There are two sides to every story. I know that lots worst things were said about me (and to me for that matter) when I raised red flags on trips.

 

[DISshopkeeper]

Hi Carol! I knew you'd be stopping by on this thread!

 

[Girls Scout Leader]

The trip itself does not seem to be a problem. When we first ogt permission for it. the only thing they really wanted to remind us of, is that we have to have our First Aide and CPR certification updarted by that time. It was current then, but would expire by the time the trip rolled around.

Last night, I learned that some of the reason that the latest round of requests that we submitted is to be rejsected is that the order form the girls made up did not pass. They wanted to do a sale of these mixes layered in jars. Tried to do that for Christmas but could not due to cookie sales at that time. One of the requirements in submission of the paperwork is a copy of the order form you intemd to use. Well, it was rejected because it did not have the Girl Scout logo and the United Way logo. This ould have been no big trick to cut and paste one on from clip art, but it was one more thing that they made a rule and have not let anyone know unit;l you are flamed for not doing it. So my daughter has contacted council (by e-mail...it sucks that council is 2 hours away) that the troop is requesting all rules reguarding fund raisers in writing.
So we'll see what they come up with.
WE have tried to contact "up the ladder" and they jsut keep kicking us back to the membership specialist or the head of money earning activities. She calls and had this big dramtic *sigh* and wants to know what the probelm is NOW. It puts you on the defence immediatly and I end up getting ticked again.
Just want to get through this trip. 4 leaders in our service unit, not including me are quiting at the end of this year. Two of the towns to the east of us have totally lost all Girl Scouting. This is all under the same membership specialist. But the rationalize all this away.
Ok, flame over again.

 

[Breezy_Carol]

Good luck to you and the girls.

I have been involved in both Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts in the past. The BS are much easier to work with. GS have too many rules. When we were getting ready to end our GS troop, we just did what we wanted as far as planning a trip and spending the money. There was no way I was going to let council have one penny of our hard earned money.

 

[Girls Scout Leader]

I agree..the Boys have it much better...DH is the Scoutmaster. WE are a house divided!
What we are currently are doing is as soon as we get some money, we are paying off things for the trip, the airline tickets are paid for, the hotel is getting it next.
My biggest concern is waht happens if they catch us doing a non-approved fund raiser, like a "parents of the troop" something. What can they do do me? What is the worse case senario? Would i have to payy all the money back? Could the prosecute me? They can't fire me. I will be quitting after the trip anyway. Waht's the absolute worse that they could do?

 

[Cruise04]

I get so frustrated with everyone that posts on girl scout threads not knowing how the whole spectrum works. I wrote on the cookie thread a few weeks ago about donations to troops - why in the hell do you think cookie prices keep going up? BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST DO DONATIONS AND DON'T BUY THE PRODUCT!!!! The money for that product goes to (a portion, not the whole damn thing) to the council to help provide programs to the girls that these people are leading - INCLUDING YOU THAT ARE LEADERS!!! Would you like to have to start paying for trainings? Well, guess what could possibly happen in the future??? And the volunteers that train GET NO MONEY AT ALL!!!! It costs alot to print materials, mail out fliers and booklets about activities, rent rooms for those activities, etc. When you make a flat donation to a troop, the council receives nothing, therefore the girls AND adults receive less and less and people ***** and ***** about why prices go up. The budgets rely on those sales - not only the troops rely on them but so do the council budgets. I'm very involved in my council - ours is a gem compared to alot of yours and that frustrates me too.

And you know why everyone is for the boy scouts??? Because they receive MUCH MORE United Way donations than the girl scouts do. MUCH MORE! And yet we have to suffer because we can't sell within these dates and these dates and these dates because of UW fundraising. Our council has received less than $1000 from my counties UW. It shrinks every year - yet parents and leaders ***** and complain because there is so much emphasis on selling nuts/candy/magazines and cookies. A lot of councils, including ours, is trying to move more and more away from the emphasis on girls selling and focus more on asking the parents for tax deductable donations to help with day to day operations. Our council has put off building a new building it desperately needs because there are no funds and they raising is not going well. Our council has gotten down to bare bones as far as staff - staff have given up days off, are doing sometimes triple and quadruple the amount that they were hired to do with no pay increase - just like other employees in other companies. And yet they have to deal with us - the ever complaining leader/parent.

I encourage everyone to get more involved in their council and then they will know exactly what goes into the budgets, why product sales are so important - and sit back the next time your troop or daughter attends a council sponsored activity - think about how much it COULD have cost you versus how much it DID cost you. THAT'S what your money it going towards!

I wish everyone the best with their troops. I would be one of the first ones to send $100 to GSL's troop to help - but I know about donation guidelines as well. Our council is anything over $200 has to go to the council itself and can't stay with the troop. Sucks huh!!!!

Oh - and if you REALLY are that unhappy with girl scouts, with your councils, with your service units - you have a right to let the Board of Directors know that as well as your Executive Director and GSUSA. No one ever said you couldn't make them know that. Attend an annual meeting sometime and you'll see what all goes into your council. I don't defend councils but I am seeing more and more that mine is totally awesome!

Off MY soap box now!

 

[CarolA]

Girl Scout Leader,
YOU are the one letting them kick it down.

Call back! Refuse to speak to the Membership Cooridinator. When she calls DO NOT get defensive, just don't talk to her. Tell her you must speak to her supervisor (she has one!) Tell her that if you do not hear from someone in authority within 24 hours you will call GSUSA in New York to lodge a complaint. Your other option is find out who the Chair of your Board of Directors is and to call them.

I realize it is two hours, but.... I still think your only resolution is FACE TO FACE! As I see it now, you are just going to continue in this cycle and we are going to get lots more of these posts!

YOU HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO BREAK THE CYCLE!

Sorry this sounds harsh, but I have been a Girl Scout since I was 8 and am 43 now. I have seen good and bad and had to fight bad.

I do agree with Cruise04. I have said in the past that people don't understand the full impact of the cookie sale. In a lot of areas, the United Way is cutting lots of funding for Girl Scouts (and even Boy Scouts to some extent). Some of this is political. GS have never been well represented in the United Way organization. The other is that women in business have not traditionally been in a position to steer donations to the Girl Scouts and now that they are, they tend not to do it. Overall, the men are much better at that. (GSUSA has even done studies, but how you change that is very difficult!)

 

[Dream]

I didn't read all the responses here, so this may have already been suggested. First....I feel your pain!!! This particular aspect of being a GS leader drives me out of my mind!!!

This is what I have done many times in the past......I have had my troop Moms do a fund raiser and donate it to the troop. Now if their daughters just showed up to be nice, helpful daughters to their Moms....wellllll.....who's gonna argue with that??? Certainly not ME!

Good luck with your sub sale....I think its brilliant and plan to steal it ! Hee hee!

Another thng I have done is take trips "as a group of friends", not as GS. This avoids all of the red tape and the headaches like you are going thru now!!! Of course all parents have to be made aware of this as GS insurance will not cover any injuries!

I have also had the sponsorship of a Moose Lodge for trips before. That is another type of "red tape" and political game playing. Just keep your eyes open if you go that route. But the money is there and its good!! And they HAVE to give a certain amount of money to the community to keep their tax exempt staus for things like bingo. So you are doing them a favor as well!!

Again....good luck!!

 

[Kallison]

I donate the money personally that I fund raise for our G.S. Troop. Yep it comes from a donation out of my pocket. I sell tickets for an event and we get $2 for every ticket. The red tape that G.S. makes you go through is ridiculous. Those Girl Scout Council women are insane. I feel for you. They are all nutty. I would just get the girls together have a big yard sale, say you are just doing it as a group of friends. Don't jump through their hoops any more, sounds like you have been more than reasonable.

 

[Kallison]

Originally posted by Breezy_Carol
Good luck to you and the girls.

I have been involved in both Girl Scouts and Boy Scouts in the past. The BS are much easier to work with. GS have too many rules. When we were getting ready to end our GS troop, we just did what we wanted as far as planning a trip and spending the money. There was no way I was going to let council have one penny of our hard earned money.

Yes I 100% agree with that statement. We did an overnight trip to Nasa with 50 people from PA, it was awesome and so easy to work with Boy Scouts. G.S. micromanages too much. If we ever do a big trip it will be as a group of friends. Not as official Girl Scouts.

 

[Karel]

Originally posted by Kallison
Yes I 100% agree with that statement. We did an overnight trip to Nasa with 50 people from PA, it was awesome and so easy to work with Boy Scouts. G.S. micromanages too much. If we ever do a big trip it will be as a group of friends. Not as official Girl Scouts.

As a parent of both, I have to agree too. Sometimes, I do think the BS are a bit lax but the the GS are totally too strict about things, to the point that it's too difficult to do things. A lot of it is too unrealistic. I think their concern for safety is great but to need a CPR trained person to go to the movies? That's a bit much.

My daughter's troop dissolved after three years of Brownies because the the leaders decided they couldn't continue. I'd do it but I'm not sure if I could follow all the rules and I don't have time for a lot of training and meetings. Can't I just have a troop that works on badges and has fun together? What's with all the restrictions for fundraising and selling things?

OTH, I'm sending my son skiing tomorrow with the BS. He's riding with a friend of ours and just needs to fill out the Ski places medical form and I'm comfortable with that. I know there's a risk while snow boarding and I accept that.

When girls cant' get things done because of paper work, something needs to be changed. When girls can't get together for fun and friendship with out worrying about their CPR person, their EMT person, their camping mom... things need to be changed.

I don't need someone yelling me that I dont' understand how things work. If United Way is becoming a problem, maybe it's time to separate. Because if things don't change, there won't be any leaders, parents or girls complaining....there won't be anyone left.

 

[CarolA]

I assume I am the person yelling.

I am not going to try and defend the GS vs. the Boy Scouts. My personal feeling is I would rather have a girl in Girl Scouts then a boy in Boy Scouts, but ..... I have a lot of horror stories from the Boy Scouts which I will not share in public! (I have friends who are professional Boy and Girl Scouts!)

As for the safety. All it takes is needing that CPR person once and you will be very grateful. Trust me I know.

My concern here is that the action path keeps going the same way, the OP talks to the Membership Cooridinator and gets upset. Somehow that needs to be broken and I think the OP has to do that. I mean how many of you have worked for bad bosses? Do they turn themselves in? It is kind of the same situation. If the Membership Cooridinator is a disaster, then you have to go over thier head.

United Way's vary greatly across the country and like all other fund raising programs they have been affected by the economy over the year.

 

[Karel]

Originally posted by CarolA
I assume I am the person yelling.

I am not going to try and defend the GS vs. the Boy Scouts. My personal feeling is I would rather have a girl in Girl Scouts then a boy in Boy Scouts, but ..... I have a lot of horror stories from the Boy Scouts which I will not share in public! (I have friends who are professional Boy and Girl Scouts!)

United Way's vary greatly across the country and like all other fund raising programs they have been affected by the economy over the year.

No, you're not the person. I agree with most of what you said. THe OP keeps butting heads with the same person and obviously, something needs to be done differently. There must be someone the Membership Co needs to anwers too.

I don't want to debate BS vs. GS but in my family, BS works for us. We're hoping our son sticks all the way through and gets his Eagle. It's just interesting how each organization works differently.

I think all fundraising is down and all community service organizations are stuggling for money.

 

[mcnuss]

GS Leader - I am so sorry for the trouble you are having. I am not going to delve into the debate of BS vs. GS 'cuz I only have a girl, nor will I touch the cookie issue with a zillion foot pole. However, the bureaucracy (geez, how do you spell that??!!) I will speak to.

The GS are at least 20 years behind the times. They make a myriad of rules, but yet won't put them on line. Paper paper paper!! Our local council frustrated me to pieces when I was the cookie manager for DD's Brownie troop. I could not believe in this day and age, we could not do the order in a spreadsheet and submit it via email. No, it has to be 66 forms in triplicate. If you ask me, it invites errors! If you create a standard spreadsheet with the formulae already done, life would be easier for everyone. Ok, I vented, sorry! (ps: if anyone would like the spreadsheet I created, I am happy to email it to you)

They make rules for rules sake. That much is clear from your post. To say that once you get an approval, you can't proceed for X amount of time seems to make no sense. What is the rationale for that?

I agree that you need to go see the council people in person. I would call the executive director's assistant and just get on her calendar for an appt since it is so far away. I also agree that you need to document everything. I would suggest writing a summary email to this membership woman -- something to the effect of "Just to clarify the situation, blah blah). Make her respond that you have indeed understood her position. Make her CITE any rule she references. Ask her if you can have said rule in WRITING if you don't have it. This is your ammunition for the meeting. YOu cannot go have a "she said" meeting...you have to have proof. (Can you tell I am a lawyer, sorry, it just comes out.)
If you want help writing this, send me a draft and I will comment. It's what I do best!!

Good luck!

Allison

 

[CarolA]

Our local council frustrated me to pieces when I was the cookie manager for DD's Brownie troop. I could not believe in this day and age, we could not do the order in a spreadsheet and submit it via email. No, it has to be 66 forms in triplicate. If you ask me, it invites errors! If you create a standard spreadsheet with the formulae already done, life would be easier for everyone.

I am laughing because I am the Cookie manager for 70 troops and NO I don't want 70 emails with their spreadsheets. Trust me, some people need paper. They need to be handheld thru this. Plus, it would assume that ALL cookie moms and dads have PCs which is not true. I think it would be good to do it electronically, but it would have to be all or nothing. (With 70 troops I am NOT taking orders more than 1 way) I think a LOT of parents are a LONG way from being able to do this on a computer. LOL!

 

[janette]

I've done the cookie mom thing too and it the paper is frustrating. I can see what you are saying though Carol, it is what lots of people prefer. I just wish they had a spreadsheet they could give those that can use it for calculating the totals. I did my own and then just wrote them into the sheets. That way people have the choice and it's a great way to double check everything for those that can.