long term maternity leave (debate)

[Laura]

Wow. One more reason to move to Canada. What am I doing here in the USA???

I think a lot of people in the USA think they are indispensable and are afraid to take time off work. I work in a department of 9 people. One year, 2 co-workers took lots of time off for the birth of children (male co-worker had a son who had medical problems at birth, female co-worker was on bed rest for a loooong time with her unplanned twins). We dealt with it, and we did not have to hire anyone new to help out. Perhaps a very few are irreplaceable, but for the most part I think my employer would do just fine if I took a year off for the birth of my child and I think many US employers would do fine too.

So many people quit their jobs so they can be with a child during the early year(s). My DH and I don't have children yet, but I'm worried about when we will. I don't like the idea of sending my infant to daycare to be raised by strangers. I'd rather stay home for the first year and raise my child myself. Neither of us makes enough $$ to stay home with a child.

We need to learn that we should work to live, not live to work.

 

[grover]

Originally posted by FayeW
A question for the American posters.

Can you buy private health insurance which covers not only the cost of the labour, delivery, and hospital care, but also provides income replacement while you recover at home for a period of time after the birth? Is so, how long will the coverage allow you to stay off work, and at what percentage do they replace your income?

My next question, assuming that there is some type of insurance like this, is how is that different than the coverage our government has so thoughtfully provided for us? If you buy private health insurance, do you begruge the other policy holders their entitlement if they CHOOSE to use their coverage to help pay maternity benefits? Don't you feel like you are PAYING for them to have a baby, especially if you have not required medical treatment yourself and have not used your benefits? The whole notion seems kind of silly, don't you think??

In Canada, I am REQUIRED to have automobile insurance, which God willing, I will never need, yet the premium is not a TAX.
If I have a mortgage on my home, I am also REQUIRED to carry replacement insurance on the property to protect the lienholders interest, again with the hope I will never need it, yet the premium is not a TAX.
I am also required to pay E.I premiums on any salaried income, which provides me with protection against loss of income, including, but not limited to, loss of job and illness ( which includes surgery, childbirth, and maternity leave.) My husband is in the military, he can NEVER file for E.I benefits, yet he pays his premium month after month, for nearly 20 years. This is not a TAX.
The premiums he, and the other 60,000 members of our military pay, are just like the premiums we pay for our fire, auto, and travel insurance. We pay them and hope we never need them, and in the meantime the fund pays for those people who do.

By the way, just because we are allowed a maximum of 52 weeks for maternity and parental leave, doesn't mean everybody uses it all. 55% of your salary doesn't go very far, nobody is getting rich. I know several people who went back after 6 or 9 months because they simply couldn't afford not to have their full salary anymore.

Well said...I am glad you made the point that it is just like any other insurance...I know here if I were to get a home I would HAVE to have insurance..if I have a car I HAVE to have insurance...and if I never use it then okay-but at least I am protected if I do need it right. Same with EI..not like I will be totally sponging money from something I have never paid into- I have made my contribution and can access it when need be And for the record I never used mat leave for my son--but if some reason I ever had another I sure as heck would!

So I am curious..what do folks in the usa do if plan for their mat leave-save up-and then tragedy comes upon them in some form or other (loss of job/sickeness/death of a partner) what happens when the money you saved for a baby is gone and your employer doesn't have to give you your job back(i think that is what i read in one of the threads) do ya'll have alot of people ending up on welfare? Just wondering what the options are for when the worst happens.
G in W

 

[sha_lyn]

u are kidding right?

Huh? You did read my post right. Nowhere did I say all schools. I can't help it if you are seeing words that are not there.

 

[jmmom80]

Originally posted by grover
Umm-if you are going to collect EI then you have to have paid into it for a certain mandatory amount of time...so how would someone else be paying?? You are getting your own money back.
G in W

i think it has been demonstrated repeatedly that this is not the case.

 

[totalia]

This has got to be one of the most teeth grinding conversations I have had in a long time.

EI is NOT A TAX.

EI means Employment Insurance.

The highlight being, INSURANCE.

Hello? Thick skulls anyone? God, will you actually LISTEN to what we are saying instead of twisting things or dismissing things because they don't suit what you WANT to understand?

None of us are lying to you. None of us are twisting the truth because it sounds better.

Insurance is insurance is insurance. It's not a tax in disguise.

 

[Hedgie81677]

Originally posted by Laura

We need to learn that we should work to live, not live to work.

Very well put....

 

[jmmom80]

EI means Employment Insurance.

insurance that is funded by the government taking a percentage of every working person's income. money that goes to the government for administration by the government.

the benefits are like insurance, but that insurance is funded by a tax.

does the government take a percentage of your pay to fund your auto insurance? your life insurance? your property insurance? does the government administer all of those programs? they certainly don't here. we pay premiums to the companies for the coverage that we want.

as i've said before, that's the difference between a premium and a tax.

 

[Hedgie81677]

Originally posted by grover

So I am curious..what do folks in the usa do if plan for their mat leave-save up-and then tragedy comes upon them in some form or other (loss of job/sickeness/death of a partner) what happens when the money you saved for a baby is gone and your employer doesn't have to give you your job back(i think that is what i read in one of the threads) do ya'll have alot of people ending up on welfare? Just wondering what the options are for when the worst happens.
G in W

We have the FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) which allows us 8-12 weeks of UNPAID time to be spent for medical issues for any family member, this is wher mat leave falls into.

Then we have TDI (Temp. Disability Insurance) can be collected for pre-natal issues (mandatory bed rest, risk of losing the baby or your health is a issue). Can not be collected after the birth of your child.

Next is Unemployment, which can be collected only if you are laid-off or were let go unjustly (very hard to prove). What ever money you put in you can collect back. After that money is gone, you can apply for federal unemployment, but then there is a weekly check on what jobs you applied for they do check on you.

Most companies will give you time off for a death in the family, days are usually determined by the closeness of the relative. In my company we get a week for spouse or child, 3 days for parents and grandparents and a day for any other relative.

I probably missed many other "assistance" programs the US offers but these are the only ones I can think of right now.

 

[Hedgie81677]

Forgot to mention TDI can be collected for any type of Temp. Disability, such as surgery recovery, car accident recovery. There is a time limit on how long you can collect, I believe this is also 12 weeks, but I could be totally wrong.

 

[poohandwendy]

I think it all just boils down to how much government involvement you want in your lives. I would rather not be forced to pay an insurance premium for the benefit of long term maternity leave.

That doesn't mean I think other countries are doing it 'wrong', it's just not what I want my government to do.

 

[jmmom80]

exactly poohandwendy. if the canadians love their system, good for them. but i certainly don't want anything like that here.

 

[poohandwendy]

I also think the reason people are seeing an association with taxes and this EI is because it isn't an optional thing, it is mandatory and handled by the govt (like taxes).

I wouldn't mind seeing the private sector offer it as an option, but it, IMHO, is not worth adding to our current UI program.

 

[MikeyNS]

Originally posted by jmmom80
exactly poohandwendy. if the canadians love their system, good for them. but i certainly don't want anything like that here.

Wow.

I think EI must be viewed as something of a handout that anyone can get at the drop of a hat. I guess it's all what you grow up with. Honestly I don't mind paying less than $100 a month towards something my wife or I may have to use someday (It's not like I have any credit card debt and am living off my credit like some! ).

Not a lot of people, including me, would *want* to use EI (I'm sure some people leech the system), but it is really nice to know that if for some god awful reason we both got laid off we would have a little help from the Gov't to get us through the hard times if needed.

 

[grover]

Originally posted by jmmom80
i think it has been demonstrated repeatedly that this is not the case.

How has it been demonstrated?

I live in Canada..I pay into EI and if I ever need benefits from EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE then I can use them...but if I haven't paid into it then I CAN NOT USE THE BENEFITS.

For example I can not just starting working--be employed for 3 months-get pregnant-leave and get the benefit...I would not have contributed enough.
G IN W

 

[grover]

Originally posted by Hedgie81677
We have the FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) which allows us 8-12 weeks of UNPAID time to be spent for medical issues for any family member, this is wher mat leave falls into.

Then we have TDI (Temp. Disability Insurance) can be collected for pre-natal issues (mandatory bed rest, risk of losing the baby or your health is a issue). Can not be collected after the birth of your child.

Next is Unemployment, which can be collected only if you are laid-off or were let go unjustly (very hard to prove). What ever money you put in you can collect back. After that money is gone, you can apply for federal unemployment, but then there is a weekly check on what jobs you applied for they do check on you.

Most companies will give you time off for a death in the family, days are usually determined by the closeness of the relative. In my company we get a week for spouse or child, 3 days for parents and grandparents and a day for any other relative.

I probably missed many other "assistance" programs the US offers but these are the only ones I can think of right now.

That is good ya'll have some programs.
I would just be worried though that "life" would happen and you would be left with nothing.
We all know that things happen that are not planned--for example unplanned pregrancies-I am assuming these people go on welfare-which is paid by all of you.
Or things like having a baby-mom stays home unpaid-dad decides he is leaving mom-she has nothing-, or same situation but dad falls very ill and can't work-what if mom has no job to return to-you know situations like that-that are beyond your control (note-i don't think ALL unplanned pregancies are beyond a persons control), so how do people cope with this-you set aside a certain amount of $$ for you mat leave-I would hate to think something bad happens and then you are stuck trying to find any job-a crappy job even just to have a job as you are not garunteed the job you left. Please let me know if I am missing something here.

G in W

 

[jrydberg]

Originally posted by totalia

Hello? Thick skulls anyone? God, will you actually LISTEN to what we are saying instead of twisting things or dismissing things because they don't suit what you WANT to understand?

Physician, heal thyself.

 

[jmmom80]

Originally posted by grover
How has it been demonstrated?

I live in Canada..I pay into EI and if I ever need benefits from EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE then I can use them...but if I haven't paid into it then I CAN NOT USE THE BENEFITS.

For example I can not just starting working--be employed for 3 months-get pregnant-leave and get the benefit...I would not have contributed enough.
G IN W

earlier on the thread i gave an example, but i'll be happy to do it again.

say an employee makes $1000/week or $52,000/year. that employee pays in about $21/week to ei. three months into the job, the employee becomes pregnant, and continues to work up to her delivery date. so this employee has worked for a year and paid in $1092 to ei. she now takes one year off with 55% pay, or $28,600. where does the additional $27,508 come from? it obviously isn't

You are getting your own money back.

 

[Madi100]

I live in the United States, and I have no desire to live anyplace else, but I think people are making it sound like it's so bad in Canada because they HAVE to pay this. Well, I would much rather pay this kind of tax, if you want to call it that, than pay into taxes that allow people to stay home and be lazy, which is exactly what our welfare program is set up to do.

What about Social Security? What if I die when I'm 52 years old, and I never get to use the SS benefits? Or, what if it's gone. Would someone please tell me where that little box is that makes me paying Social Security an option???? I also pay taxes on govenment programs I don't care about. I get to help pay for the war. I don't understand why people are acting like in America our taxes are like the church offering and we through in what we feel we need to. Our government has control over what we pay and where it goes to. I bet if Americans had the choice of a welfare program and this "tax" or insurance that the Canadians have, most would pick the Canadians.

Just out of curiousity, what type of welfare program does Canada have?

 

[maxie]

Originally posted by jmmom80
earlier on the thread i gave an example, but i'll be happy to do it again.

say an employee makes $1000/week or $52,000/year. that employee pays in about $21/week to ei. three months into the job, the employee becomes pregnant, and continues to work up to her delivery date. so this employee has worked for a year and paid in $1092 to ei. she now takes one year off with 55% pay, or $28,600. where does the additional $27,508 come from? it obviously isn't

That's is possible but how many women do you know only ever work a year in their whole adult lives (age 18-65). The vast majority will have put in enough to pay themselves.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by maxie
That's is possible but how many women do you know only ever work a year in their whole adult lives (age 18-65). The vast majority will have put in enough to pay themselves.

I know quite a few women who never go back to work after the baby is born, whether they worked one year or ten before the birth.