Livid - Missing School Vent

[suebo]

Go, have fun, she won't miss that much. 11 years old, it would be one thing if it was high school.

 

[Iott Family]

Just a little food for thought....our school corpporation docks a student 50% of any missed work for what they consider unexcused absences. It has put a serious crip in our family travel because not only do we have to juggle around my husbands work schedule but we have to factor in school vacation time.

While I can see both sides of the situation, I tend to think if your child is doing well in school and doesnt miss school regularly, whats the big deal if you as the parent want to take your child out of school for a day or two.

This whole missed school thing is a huge deal around here.....this argument can easily divide the town. From what I have read on here its quite heated here as well.

 

[Schmeck]

In this age of 'nonparenting', teachers have been expected to pick up the social slack, as well as the educational expectations of the 'no child left behind' legislation (sp? - not enough caffeine yet!). Teachers have been expected to teach social skills for years now, and a lot of it has been written into the curriculum in my region. So, I don't think it is terrible that the teacher approached the student about this situation. It's the student's education that is in question, the child is old enough to understand consequences (even though some parents don't think that there should be consequences) and the teacher got the student to think 'out of the box' - not just follow along with what the parent expects. I'd be thrilled if the teachers in our town did this! Letting the student become more aware/vocal over how her life is determined is part of growing up. I think too many are ready to blame teachers for everything (feel free to homeschool your kids then) when it is really the social atmosphere in this country that is the problem.

I know - all this over a two day absence, but to get outraged because a teacher got a kid to think...

 

[I_Know_You2!]

Actually I think the teachers often have problems having the "responsiblity" of teaching "social skills" taken away from them. When a parent comes in who has their own standards for their children the teacher often balks. Perhaps if they concentrated on teaching the academics, parents would take back their responsibilities. Don't think it will happen because the teachers feel superior to the parents currently. And I believe they get a lot out of that feeling. JMO!

 

[crisi]

I don't think you are giving enough credit to teachers. I have a couple of friends who teach - and they don't feel superior to parents. They DO feel like they need to provide a responsible role model and stability for some of their students that lack that - and really go out of their way to do so. Some of the situations these kids are in are truly deplorable - kids who don't have clean clothes because their parents don't do laundry - and they've never learned hygenie. The parents who didn't take responsibility when their kids were three aren't going to be taking it now that they are ten and eleven.

I wonder in this story....we are getting the information on the conversation third hand. Not that I think anyone is lying, but I wonder if the teacher's side of the story would be different. For instance, if the daughter had opened the conversation with "Mrs. Smith, I'm really concerned because that paper is due right after I get back from vacation" the whole interpretation of the conversation is very different. If it happened as its being presented - out of the blue the teacher pulls the child aside to tell her all the cons about being pulled from school for vacation - then the teacher overstepped. However, I'd be hesitant to make a big deal out of it - with Louisiana's compulsory attendence laws the teacher is may have made a poor judgement call. The OP appears to be pretty close to breaking the law.

 

[I_Know_You2!]

Crisi, you make a good point. Many teachers are good teachers. I have worked with several that are willing to go the extra mile, just as I am when dealing with school and family issues re. clients. I just get tired of hearing how poorly they are paid and how awful parents are. It seems they are convinced coming out of school that parents are ignorant, the NEA rules and that way too many kids need medicated. I think a bunch of great kids enter teacher education programs, and are ruined!

 

[crisi]

I think a lot of great people (including adults) go through teacher education programs and become great teachers. I think a few not so great people go through teacher education programs and become not so great teachers.

I find the local school board and state rules far more disturbing than anything the NEA puts out.

(Now law school - that ruins people )

 

[cbbi]

Just to clarify...First - I think my child's teacher is a great teacher. I feel my daughter is benefitting greatly from being in her class and I am grateful for her. And yes, I am certain the listing of pros and cons was probably sparked by a question/concern from my child. However I also still believe it was an inappropriate response from the teacher. Teach critical thinking skills - yes. Have a conversation with an 11 year old that you should have with her parents. No. As to your comment:

I wonder in this story....we are getting the information on the conversation third hand

that is exactly why the teacher should've contacted us/the parents directly if there was a concern. Was I livid? Yes. Am I anymore - of course not. Though I am going to speak to the teacher upon our return.

Regarding compulsory attendance laws: There is nothing inherently good about following a rule/law in a vacuum. Nuremberg proved this. Adhering to a rule because it is a rule doesn't make your activities correct, right, just or moral. I am the parent to my child, not the teacher. My child obviously excels in what is being taught in class. What is of more value to my child at this point are experiences to be found outside of the classroom. What is of most value to society as a whole is for me to produce a well-rounded, conscientious individual that refuses to slavishly approach the table and drink the Kool Aid.

You say

The OP appears to be pretty close to breaking the law..

. In my interpretation, the spirit of the rule/law is that you should use up all but one of your unexcused absences to further the education of your child through out of school experiences. The rule, in my eyes, is to give the parent some room when they see their child will benefit more by experiences outside the classroom. Frankly, I think 10/20 days is low but a low number was put in place to prohibit excessive absences by parents whose children need to be in school. For years now, when we receive our warning letters and call the school officials we are told they have no worries vis a vis our children. And I still do believe there can be a blend of traditional school and travel opportunities other than holidays when prices are at their highest and crowds at their peak.

Are we perfect parents -- of course not especially by the standards of those who believe in perfect attendance. Are we packed and ready to go ... yep... Ciao.

 

[lindaso]

Teachers are not paid for work they have to do ouside of class time this includes class prep which includes photocopying any materials they need, making up exams and grading those exams and papers.

I feel the need to comment about this. Now let me just say I have the utmost respect for teachers. I think their job is extremely difficult and I think they should be paid a decent salary. Most teachers on Long Island are very well paid. That said...teachers are professionals. They do not punch a clock. Their job description includes class prep time, prepping materials, exams, papers, etc. They are paid for that "outside classroom" work in their annual salary.

 

[crisi]

cbbi,

While I don't agree with you regarding the spirit of the law, I think you are free to interpret it that way. And I do agree that there is a lot of learning that can take place outside of school. And I'm glad you recognize its there to prohibit excessive absenses. As I said before, I'm not judging, I think you are free to raise your kids the way you see fit. I'm also glad you are no longer livid and going to discuss it with the teacher.

Have a great trip.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Wow this thread just shocked me. This is my first time reading it, and I only read the 1st and last pages, but WOW!!

I previous years the most I have taken the kids out for is one or two days. This is our first Disney trip and we will be taking them out for 6 school days. My sister in law WAS a grade school teacher for a couple of years. She is not teaching now - her choice - many different reasons I'm sure, but one of the reason's were the parents who seemed to make her teaching job hell - just a couple of them in every class.

I've never heard of a teacher guilting a student for taking time off though! I still can't get over hearing about that!

My wife did ask her sis at Thanksgiving dinner last week, how teachers feel about kids leaving school for a week for vacation. Sis in law said several things..... the first of which was that teachers don't really like it. but also that it is the parents choice and that we should not feel guilty. And I don't.

I know that my kids education is important - certainly more important than a week at Disney. However, I can assure you that My wife and I, as responsible parents, will not allow it to hinder our childrens long term progress. We will always have our childrens best interest at heart when we make a decision such as this. And I would be willing to give credit to 95% + of the parents out there to make the appropriate decision about their own children.

 

[elgerber]

I am very sympathetic to both sides of the pulling kids out of school argument. But what really disturbs me about this is the way the teacher handled it with the child. It was completely inappropriate to discuss this with an 11 year old, particularly in this manner. If she (the teacher) was concerned, she should have dealt directly with the parents. An 11 year old does not have 'option' of participating in a family vacation. Pitting this poor child against her parents is deplorable. I would talk to the teacher, the principal and the district superintendent. Children have enough stress in their lives, trying to make an 11 year old child decide between school and family is absolutely horrendous. Please complain, calmly, politely and forcefully. Very inappropriate behavior!!

I usually stay out of these threads, but I completely agree with every word written above!!!!

 

[cookie2001]

I just wanted to sympathize with you. My daughter, 9, is sensitive and really wants to please her teachers. I had a similar situation where I had told my daughter I was going to pick her up to take her somewhere. I had asked one teacher to tell another. (very small school, only 4 teachers) She called me from school saying that she couldn't go. The teacher hadn't been informed. I told her it was O.K. but I wound up leaving her at school because she was so distraught. She stayed in the secretary's office for a while crying. The secretary is a saint and said her daughter was the same when she was younger. I really like her teacher so I was very upset that she didn't know that this child cannot handle being put in the middle. Of course I was also mad at myself for not talking to the teacher directly to make sure that she did know. Hopefully as dd gets older she will learn not to take these things so hard.

 

[lunabkat]

Frankly

If two days, or a week, make a great big difference in class, then the teacher is doing something wrong. Look at the end of the year or holiday weeks, basically, the kids do nothing, play games and hang out, just to make the 180 days (or whatever ini your area). As long as the child has a relatively good record of school days, what's the problem. There ARE other things in the world besides school, like experiencing time with the family and having a life. If your child is doing well in school then i thing the teacher overstepped her bounds in saddling your child with all her "pros" and "cons". the biggest pro is time with her family and life experiences.

Take is from someone whose 12 year old was killed in an accident 5 months after we went on a disney vacation, there is not one minute of the day that i regret taking her out of school for a vacation with the two of us. Again, frankly, had i not taken the time to have that extra special vacation with her, i think i would have killed myself. Life can be tragically short, don't let someone else decide what kind of life you give your child. My daughter's principal asked if he could go with us, two of her teachers had a problem with taking her out of school for a week - too bad. You never know is my motto, and I thank God that i took her out of school for that week, we had the time of our lives and it couldn't have been more fun.

i am taking my 5 year old and my 3 year old out of school this december to go to disney and i will be d*&^%$ if i will let someone else tell my or my child what they need to decide.

Lauralee

Family comes first, and if the school or teacher is not happy with that, too bad.

 

[lmhall2000]

My heart hurts on this.

First, your sweet daughter really wants her teacher's consideration and approval...her teacher should be perceptive enough to realize this is your duaghter's personality and not use that against her. Which I think is why you are so appalled by it...and rightfully you should be. We all have lapses in judgement and let's hope this is one of them.

Second, don't let this opportunity slide by. Too many of these instances are brushed off...but if the teacher is not made aware of how big an issue this caused she may not gain the wisdom she'll need in the future to prevent another parent from feeling this way.

Third, our family chose to homeschool 4 years ago. Last night, a neighbor called me to ask me how to do it...her kindergartner is coming home begging not to be sent back to school (one of the best in the county) because she's terrified of having her "clip" pulled and cried because her feet were sweaty and she couldn't keep her feet together during quiet time (heads down, eyes closed, feet together) and she was so afraid her clip would be pulled. They've cut recess outdoors to 1 day a week and it's only in the 60's here...TN...they are going to Disney next week and her daughter will not be returning to school. Her mom tried her best to effect change...but her daughter's emotional well-being was compromised...

More needs to be done to change our schools. I wish I had the time to help...I hope when I'm done homeschooling all of mine, that I will go back to the educational system and promote changes. My children will take trips, participate in mission trips abroad, give back to the community...but most of all they will be children...they'll play and find the joy in learning. We've got to put that back into our schools. Being strict about attendance because it may affect state funding is backwards logic. Money is not the answer to a better educational system...it's the people...the parents and the teachers working together to promote learning, not controlling vacation time.

Tara

 

[disneyjunkie]

My children will take trips, participate in mission trips abroad, give back to the community...but most of all they will be children...they'll play and find the joy in learning.
Tara

I think it's great that your children will get to do all of these great things. There are plenty of children across this country that attend public and private schools, that will have the same opportunities.

 

[fizz13]

This is a hard one to call. In the UK, we are allowed to remove our children for 2 weeks or 10 days out of the year. My daughter goes to a private girls school and consequently has longer holidays than most other schools. naturally the schools' view is that there should be no need to remove a girl from school as we are given ample time to do this. We would not even have to pay hiked prices as the school lets out before others.

HOWEVER, I am removing DD for 2 weeks in january to go to WDW. She has had no previous absences so her record is good and she is only 5 so I feel this won't harm her at all. we have agreed to take extra reading books and to help her keep a journal. (Thankyou, whoever posted printable journal pages!!) I wrote a letter to the principal who is normally very harsh and judgemental about these kind of things and she was overjoyed for DD, said it was the trip of a lifetime and would we make room in the suitcase for her?!
Normally, I am against removing children from school if they are over the age of 11 as I feel the workload increases as does the difficulty level and it would be harder to catch up, but in this case, it is really just 2 days. How much work can they really cover in this time? If you DD is that bright, she will have no problem in making up any work, getting copies of notes.

I'm glad you have chosen to go and have a great time. I hope that DD is able to relax and just be 11 and may i send lots of pixie dust for a wonderful trip,
Claire

 

[lmhall2000]

DisneyJunkie...I sincerely apologize...I did not mean to imply otherwise...believe me, a big part of me wishes I could send my children to school and reap the benefits. There are just so many incidences that prove that the "system" is in need of repair. And, when a school tries to "strong arm" a family into rescheduling their life...I think it's one of those incidences.
My comments about what we do were meant to simply state I choose to take trips when we want, we also take trips that give back...but it's my decision not the schools. And for a parent to have to question that makes me concerned. The schools and administrations are scrambling for ways to increase funding, increase scores..I just don't think micromanaging family vacations is where their focus should be.

Tara

 

[DiznEeyore]

This is such a difficult issue and one I have been thinking of a lot lately. Due to the lovely "No Child Left Behind" policy, parents of elementary-aged children can be brought to court if their children miss more than 10 days of school, NO MATTER WHAT GRADES THEIR CHILD IS RECEIVING.

IMO, that is absolutely preposterous. Some kids are sickly kids. Mine, for example. He's missed 6 school days in the past month. The last 4 days I've had to agonize over deciding whether to keep him home or make him go to school miserable just so his attendance count doesn't dip too low (I sent him today, even though he's still sick and going to the doctor this afternoon).

Fortunately, ds is in middle school and those elementary rules about absences don't apply (though I have no idea why and even the principal can't explain it to me). I'm grateful for it, though ... there's no way I would stand for being dragged into court to explain to some judge why my kid who gets As and Bs has missed classes.

We homeschooled ds for 4 years and it was a struggle. It's benefitted him and me for him to have someone else for a teacher. But middle school can be lethal to a kid's self-esteem and he's struggling. He's even asked to return to homeschooling. So far, we've been able to reason through it, but who knows what the future holds? It certainly was easier to schedule family vacations when we didn't have to "answer" to anyone about our plans!!

*sigh* It's tough enough to be a good parent these days -- I wish the schools didn't complicate things so much.

 

[Pinnie]

*sigh* It's tough enough to be a good parent these days -- I wish the schools didn't complicate things so much.

In most cases it is NOT the schools that are making the rules. We can thank NCLB for that! I am a teacher that will be looking toward retirement sooner than later due to all the new "rules". Right now I am home recovering from surgery and stressing on how I am going to get my students back on track next week!

pinnie